The difference is you don't have to, but you can and do at times, but not near every time, to ask their help. And it still always goes though Christ, but merely asking the saint to also petition God for you
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The difference is you don't have to, but you can and do at times, but not near every time, to ask their help. And it still always goes though Christ, but merely asking the saint to also petition God for you
No one "has to" go through Mary... but even when they do, it certainly does not negate anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Christ is the one mediator. Christ---------> God. That's it.
Problem is, non-Catholics avoid the fact that Scripture does not specifically state there can be no intermediate steps BEFORE we get to the one mediator.
Follow me here:
You------> me ---------> Mary--------> Christ---------> God.
You ask me to say a prayer for you... I ask Mary to intercede... Mary passes along our intentions to her Divine son... and ("No one comes to the Father except through me") through Christ the one mediator our prayers reach God.
Get it? :D
That doesn't seem to be a problem to me. Yet it does sufficiently suggest the opposite to what you are declaring.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Jesus tells us everything, including following Him. And John10-27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Pretty sufficient point in my opinon, that John 10:27 makes.
Jesus also tells us inMatthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Note: what did he called hypocrites? I see it do you?
Matthew 6:7-8 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Matthew 6:9-13 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.Give us this day our daily bread.And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Luke 11:1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread.And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Again John 10-27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
I hear Jesus and I will follow Jesus.. Not traditions or man's way of added to scripture that is done in their own pride.. That's too much like what satan has done. And satan declared similarly to Eve that he knew more than what God offered, and deceived her.. Nope I rebuke what you are saying concerning praying to saints and Mary.. In Jesus Name I will pray
I guess I'm missing your point... NOTHING in these verses refute anything I said... not even close actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
My friend, I think I've been pretty up-front on this forum... I don't really care for the games... so why don't you just explain what you believe Christ meant when he used the word "hypocrites" please.Quote:
Note: what did he called hypocrites? I see it do you?
Amen... as do I.Quote:
I hear Jesus and I will follow Jesus..
Amen... we agree on this as well.Quote:
Not traditions or man's way of added to scripture that is done in their own pride..
Super... pray however your conscience guides you... but I'm still waiting for your reasons for your "rebuke".Quote:
Nope I rebuke what you are saying concerning praying to saints and Mary.. In Jesus Name I will pray
Nothing you offered states clearly (or at all) that prayers through others to Christ are non-Biblical.
Did Christ say to do this? NoQuote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Christ is the ONLY mediator.. That's it!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Me-----> In Jesus Name (Christ)-------> GodQuote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Anyone can pray for you, but they do not need you to go through..
You have double -barreled your own statement.. That is what I rebuke.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
What is spoken in Truth, is that no one comes to the Father except throught Christ...
I also rebuke the FALSE this false doctrine of praying to Mary, it has no Biblical basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Me--------------------->Christ------------------> GOD
Simple as that.
Praying for one another is Biblical, however asking dead people (mary & saints) to pray for you is not biblical.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Why though? These are dead people. They probably don't even know who you are...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Mary is a human being who died, so are the Saints.. she is not a God/Goddess so she does not Possess the omniscience so chances are She does not know who you are and therefor can not hear your prayers
Even angels, demons and the devil himself do not Possess omniscience
Only GOD (father, son, Holy Spirit) is ALL KNOWING, Only He knows us all by name and knows the numbers of hair on our heads.
Okey dokey...Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Peace be with you.
Okey dokey...Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
Peace be with you.
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