It wasn't disagreement. It was deliberate negativity. Please be constructive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And, yes, libraries and library staff have access to their hearts.
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It wasn't disagreement. It was deliberate negativity. Please be constructive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And, yes, libraries and library staff have access to their hearts.
Isn't your statement "deliberate negativity"? Since it plainly is, why aren't you adhering your own standard?Quote:
It wasn't disagreement. It was deliberate negativity. Please be constructive.
How would you have access to the hearts of those who walked into your library?
Nope, it isn't. This is a teaching moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Ah, now there's a terrific discussion topic!Quote:
How would you have access to the hearts of those who walked into your library?
Isn't is strange how when you do it, it's a "teaching moment", but when I do it, it's being "negative"? Giving yourself quite an out there, aren't you? You do realize how suspicious that looks?Quote:
Nope, it isn't. This is a teaching moment.
[I await your insights.Quote:
Ah, now there's a terrific discussion topic!
The people who walk into a library are:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Great explanation. (SARC)
Opening up the discussion.... please respond.
Who comes into a library?
I don’t know. What do you think?
I don't think. I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I don’t think you know either.
You walked right into that one.
You think you're tricky, don't you. (I've seen them stream in for almost 30 years.)Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You have? And yet you can’t describe them??
That’s very strange.
That’s fine. All you’re doing is asking silly questions anyway. In order to discuss a topic, you need to make statements.
Good night.
Who comes into a library? Anyone. Everyone. People of all ages and for a variety of reasons. Babies, small children, 'tweens, teens, adults of any age, students, teachers, professors, retired adults, elderly or even younger who are disabled and use canes or walkers or wheelchairs. They come in as observers, visitors, patrons, want to make photocopies, work on a public-use computer, do homework, prep their lessons for the next day, volunteer or work off their court-ordered community service hours. They represent a variety of cultures, languages, races. They are homeless, poor, middle-class, wealthy.
Ok. What does that have to do with you being able to see into their hearts?
They speak from their heart as they ask reference questions; ask for help finding material to read, watch, research, or listen to (audiobooks); as they check out material (books, DVDs, CDs, etc.) or return those materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Library staff are welcoming and are good listeners. People tell us very private and rather amazingly personal things. They open their hearts to us, and we proceed from there.
Sorry, but I just don't believe that you had those heart to heart conversations with all of the people who walked through the doors. 1 out of every 10 maybe, but even then you could not see into their hearts. Partially, perhaps, but certainly not fully. I just think your statement was waayyyy overstated.
If you remember, this is the original statement of yours I questioned. "Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear." Not only do I not believe it, but I don't think you would have any way of knowing that to begin with. A few of them yes, but anything even approaching all? No way.
I'm sure you had wonderful exchanges with many of them. I wouldn't doubt that at all.
Yes, all grievances disappear. Everyone goes there for a positive reason. And even during conversation as books are checked out or reference questions are answered, there's a human interplay of kindness and sharing, using verbal as well as non-verbal communication.
In some cases yes. In all cases no. You would have no way of even knowing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I'm encouraged that you are finally beginning to realize that documenting what amounts to nothing is an impossibility and is “nothing more than conjecture”. Perhaps now you can understand what proving a negative means and how it is an impossibility.
The next step in your education is to go back to all the Bible/scripture arguments of yours where you demanded proof of something that never existed. You argued that absence proved your position, but that is not true, The absence of proof is not proof.
For example, your argument that God or Jesus or Tertullian or anyone did NOT say the opposite of what you are claiming proves that your claim is true is, of course, false reasoning. You did that many times.
I do not expect you to fully understand the point. Learning comes in small steps.
The far more important issue is the initial post re white evangelicals. Rather than respond to that post, you took the path of deflection. That is the path of those who cannot or will not respond.
And again, you must document your fairy tales. Until then, they remain just that. Anytime you start a sentence with, "When you said..." then I know the fiction is about to begin.
For your benefit, here is a stellar example of how it works.
The truth here is obvious to everyone. You were caught plagiarizing. Instead of just moving on from it, as it really wasn't that big of a deal, you became angry and have been just throwing out random accusations since then. It's a poor strategy.Quote:
Where Athos has plagiarized.
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...95#post3873195
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...64#post3875864
Grievances disappear while we interact with them and while they interact with each other (in writing groups, book discussion groups, kids' storytimes, teen in-library activities, etc.). The library offers people a kinder, gentler world. We encourage them to take those same attitudes with them when they leave the library. And yes, we do find out in future comments that it indeed happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
So back to where this library detour began:
"Yes, and whites need to reach out more. That's what I especially loved about my library job(s). That library was (is) a much-loved community center, the community being composed of every race and nationality you can think of. Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear."
The first two paragraphs are probably closer to the truth. You had stated, "When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped." In some cases I imagine that's true. The same thing is true of schools I worked in, but we certainly were not able to solve everyone's grievances anymore than you were able to. If you insist on saying you were, then we have simply reached an impasse. I commend you for the culture you say prevailed there. It's a great objective, but no reasonable person would believe that you basically managed to solve everyone's grievances. Top psychiatrists don't have that level of success, and you and I are certainly not top psychiatrists.Quote:
Grievances disappear while we interact with them and while they interact with each other (in writing groups, book discussion groups, kids' storytimes, teen in-library activities, etc.). The library offers people a kinder, gentler world.
Why are you adding words and false meanings to what I posted? Please stop!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Oh? How so?
Is this not what you said? " Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear."
Yes,I wrote that. Then you wrote this:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
"we certainly were not able to solve everyone's grievances anymore than you were able to."
***Now, put on your thinking cap. Did I say we were able to solve everyone's grievances?***
Another quote from you. That's four times you said such a statement. Now you are backing off of it. Good for you.Quote:
When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped.
I responded earlier, "But the things you described certainly don't indicate a dropping of grievances among everyone who just walked through the doors."
You replied, "When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped. I never heard or heard about, saw, or was involved in a heated argument, fistfight, shooting while inside library walls. And part of our training was learning how to avoid and prevent any outburst from occurring."
If you didn't mean "everyone's", then that would have been a good place to say so. Thankfully, you say it now.
Not at all. Grievances were dropped, DISAPPEARED, when people walked into the library. I didn't say those grievances were remedied, cured, removed. They were put aside while people were in the library.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
What is truth? Is it talking snakes? A genocidal God? A monstrosity of a God who torments anyone who he doesn't like - for all eternity? Is this REALLY your role model for truth?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yet you dwell on plagiarism, a habit you yourself are guilty of. You cannot own up and prove that you are not guilty. Everyone awaits your proof. Yet, it is not forthcoming. Everyone wonders where is the proof?
When you demand proof from others, you say it is fine to do. When others demand proof from you, you say it is ugly.
Time to end this nonsense of your interminable silly chit-chat. Provide the proof asked for and move on to the serious issue re white evangelicals. Being yourself a white evangelical, your need to obfuscate is obvious.
That truth is obvious to everyone.
Fair enough. You can't see into their hearts, as it turns out, but you did maintain an orderly library. Good for you.Quote:
Not at all. Grievances were dropped, DISAPPEARED, when people walked into the library. I didn't say those grievances were remedied, cured, removed. They were put aside while people were in the library.
I would say EVERYONE needs to reach out more. Your Lutheran church seems to be quite unsuccessful in this endeavor, as do, to be fair, most churches, black, white, or otherwise. It is a difficult issue. Exactly why that is true, I don't know.Quote:
"Yes, and whites need to reach out more. That's what I especially loved about my library job(s). That library was (is) a much-loved community center, the community being composed of every race and nationality you can think of.
Quote:
That truth is obvious to everyone.
Yes indeed, it is. I document. You toss around opinions.
And that's what libraries, composed of staff who are not only white but every color people come in, have as their reason for being -- and thus find connection opportunities for patrons and visitors of every race, creed, and color.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
So why didn't you employ that idea in the lily-white Lutheran Church?
Would you say that all Christian churches should be committed to at least attempting to reach as many people groups as possible? If so, are you a member of such a church?
We did with the effort called "Each One Reach One." The Lutheran Church isn't lily white.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The Lutheran church is about 94% white. "Each one reach one" apparently did not result in reaching non-whites.
At any rate, having worked in schools that contained all sorts of combinations of ethnic groups, including Native Americans, and all sorts of income groups from inner-city kids to children from wealthy homes, I can tell you that racial harmony with children is not terribly difficult in terms of getting along, but in terms of forming long-term, inter-racial friendships, it is much more difficult.
That's why Lutheran churches often have the adjective "evangelical" in their name, referring to Jesus' Great Commission in Matthew 28:19-20.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
So do many other churches. It seems to have resulted in wonderful results in Africa or Central America, but not so much in reaching non-whites in America. It seems to be a difficult problem. So I guess I'm asking if you are involved in a church that is presently breaking those racial barriers in the same way you say your library did.
I might add that back in the 80's and 90's I was involved in a local church that was very successful in having a "mixed" congregation. We didn't really do anything unusual other than to commit to preaching the Gospel to everyone, inviting everyone to church, and welcoming everyone who came. It was, however, very much the exception rather than the rule.
My library didn't break any racial barriers. The community was, and still is, a little united nations. And I'm no longer involved in church activities, am busy preparing for my journey to heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I wonder if the churches reflect that.Quote:
My library didn't break any racial barriers. The community was, and still is, a little united nations.
Like I said earlier, schools show the same diversity as far as students and teachers talking and getting along, but once they leave the school and go home, the racial divides tend to show back up.
Christian churches? In this area, there are many churches, mosques, and worship centers to give guidance and opportunities for sharing one's beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
My Sikh and Muslim and even agnostic coworkers always reached out to and welcomed and happily helped library patrons and visitors.
Sorry. I thought you were a Christian.
Your Sikh, Muslim, and agnostic coworkers will not be saved by their works. Either that, or Luther was wrong.
What have I said that makes you think otherwise?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You won't be saved by your works either.Quote:
Your Sikh, Muslim, and agnostic coworkers will not be saved by their works. Either that, or Luther was wrong.
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