Ask Me Help Desk - Why are there so many different religions?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And that explains the doubtless hundreds of posts you have made in reply to my posts? Got it!

My replies are in the interests of truth and accuracy when you so frequently post incorrect information. You're letting your ego get in your way.

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You just don't want to have your beliefs questioned.

My beliefs are not closed except for you. The reasons are obvious.

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For instance, when I see this post of yours, I wonder if that is just your opinion, or are you contending it is true for everyone.

It is an observation. Obviously I consider it to be an accurate observation, else I would not have posted it.

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I realize you are not going to answer.

If you realize that, why ask? Such an admission shows you are only interested in seeing your name in print.

Many words. No answer. Oh well.

On second thought there was an answer of sorts. You said your remarks were an observation you considered to be accurate. That could be merely an opinion which would be fine. It could also be a truth statement which would need support. I just am wondering what led you to that position.

The answer was a pleasant event.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Many words. No answer. Oh well.

Having eyes, they saw not.

Having eyes he saw late, but did see. Look again.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Having eyes he saw late, but did see. Look again.

Sorry, you get one shot - no longer playing your game.

Your choice. I always welcome opportunities to explain my beliefs, but I do realize that everyone does not feel that way.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I always welcome opportunities to explain my beliefs, but I do realize that everyone does not feel that way.

FINALLY! All those replies worked. Good for you. You've made a giant step in maturity.

You must be speaking of my replies. Replying to questions is a rarity for you. Perhaps the day will come when you are confident enough in your beliefs to welcome the opportunity to defend them.

Yesterday I received my September Mensa Bulletin. The first letter to the editor caught my eye and made me think of this AMHD thread. Here's the letter:

***Phillip Power deserves points for valiant effort in "Intelligence & Unbelief: The Not-So-Causal Relationship" (August).

In Isaac Newton's day, pretty much everyone in the Western world was Christian. Quoting eminences from that era [as had the author of the article being commented on] supporting the belief in God isn't saying a whole lot. One did not cross the Church of England or the Vatican (or the Imams of Islam) lightly.

Closer to the issue: Believing in a God is not enough. Your God has to be fleshed out with attributes, and that's where the trouble starts. The God of the Bible comes across as a vicious, blood-loving, woman-hating, insecure bully.

Loading God with the job of creation has its own problems. God "designed" the impala to run fast to avoid the lion and "designed" the lion to catch and kill the impala. Then there is the wasp that lays its larvae in the body of a paralyzed tarantula to eat the tarantula alive from the inside out. Whose side is God on anyway?

One may reduce a belief in God to the simplest level as not more than a supernatural agent that provides personal comfort and solace. Well, that's all right. I suppose, if that is what you need.***

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The God of the Bible comes across as a vicious, blood-loving, woman-hating, insecure bully.

He must be reading a different Bible from mine. I always think it's unfortunate when people get into the business of judging God. The shoe is actually on the other foot.

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One may reduce a belief in God to the simplest level as not more than a supernatural agent that provides personal comfort and solace. Well, that's all right. I suppose, if that is what you need.***

That would only be "all right" if it was true. If it's not true, then it's a terrible mistake. You cannot read the NT and come to such a conclusion unless you want to ignore the NT. Jesus absolutely does not leave us that option.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

He must be reading a different Bible from mine.

He's reading the same Bible. Especially the part where God exterminates all humanity except for Noah. Did you miss that part? And where Jesus sends unbelievers to eternal punishment in his private torture chamber.

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You cannot read the NT and come to such a conclusion unless you want to ignore the NT.

Of course, you can. All those atheists who were brought up as Christians read the NT and came to that conclusion.

Nope. As Confucius might have said, "He who is not willing to answer questions should not presume to ask them." I've answered your questions by the dozens while you sit back, shall we say, "shyly".

Here's the latest one in case you want to try and strap it on.

You said your remarks were an observation you considered to be accurate. That was not what I asked, however, I asked if your remark was an opinion, or was it a statement you considered to be true for everyone. Now your reply could have been merely an opinion which would be fine. It could also have been a truth statement which would need support. I just am wondering which position you are taking.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You said your remarks were an observation you considered to be accurate. That was not what I asked, however, I asked if your remark was an opinion, or was it a statement you considered to be true for everyone. Now your reply could have been merely an opinion which would be fine. It could also have been a truth statement which would need support. I just am wondering which position you are taking.

And your remarks are....?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I've answered your questions by the dozens while you sit back

Why are you evading this question? Are you a coward?

Of course, we all know why you're evading it. Simply because your Bible comment was wrong - seriously wrong - and you know it, but are afraid to admit it. You've been outed, pal. Live with it.

Tell you what. If you will agree to these terms, I'll answer your question. We will exchange one question at a time. Each of us will agree to give honest and open answers. Agreed, oh thou courageous one?

Note to other readers. Prepare for a plateful of evasion.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Each of us will agree to give honest and open answers.

No nastiness, no crabbing, no putdowns, no evasiveness, no insults, no rudeness.

That was actually intended for Athos. And I wanted to laugh out loud when I read the "no evasiveness" rule. You are the queen of evasion. You do it all the time and you know you do. But if you are willing to abide by your own rules, we can give it a go. You can ask first.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That was actually intended for Athos. And I wanted to laugh out loud when I read the "no evasiveness" rule. You are the queen of evasion. You do it all the time and you know you do. But if you are willing to abide by your own rules, we can give it a go. You can ask first.

I know that was for him. And you're off to a bad start.

I guess that means you are out. Now it's a waiting game for Athos.

But understand that you are most welcome in. I actually don't think you want to, but we'll see.

Hope the hubster is doing better.

What is "crabbing"?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What is "crabbing"?

crabbing (present participle)
grumble, typically about something petty.
"on picnics, I would crab about sand in my food"

Ach du lieber! Du bist ein Schnickelfritz!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Tell you what. If you will agree to these terms, I'll answer your question. We will exchange one question at a time. Each of us will agree to give honest and open answers.

Note to other readers. Prepare for a plateful of evasion.

Note to readers. Jl has done this before.

When he asked me that very same thing in the past, I accepted and even went first to show good faith. Then he refused to accept my answer (which perfectly described my position on the subject), and refused to give an answer himself. So much for the word of Jl.

He couldn't have been more transparently dishonest. He was met on the battlefield and he ran away and hid. Dishonest AND cowardly!

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Note to other readers. Prepare for a plateful of evasion.

And I was right! There is no more predictable deal on this site than the refusal of Athos to answer questions.

His reference to those supposed occurrences in the past is simply lying. Guaranteed he cannot find it or link to it. Guaranteed.

But my offer remains. Do you accept?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And I was right! There is no more predictable deal on this site than the refusal of Athos to answer questions.

You're becoming a one-note liar.

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His reference to those supposed occurrences in the past is simply lying. Guaranteed he cannot find it or link to it. Guaranteed.

You know and I know it is the truth. You are so consistent in denying any truth that doesn't fit your purposes, no one is surprised by it anymore.

Could I find it? Probably. But to what purpose? It would surprise no one - even you.

From memory - the topic was what did I believe about hell. You asked it and said you would answer if I answered after you did. I decided to go first, never thinking you were lying about answering. I didn't know you well back then, the way I do now. I said I don't believe in hell. You said that is not an answer. So you never answered as promised.

Your position was absurd. I learned then that truth as defined by you was what you believed. A belief other than yours was, per se, not truth. His religious beliefs don't allow for differences. Everything else is lies which he was fond of saying deserved hellfire, usually accompanied by some Biblical quote.

That's a rough memory, but the discussion was about the Bible and hell. Jl remembers, but he is not likely to admit it.

You cannot demonstrate any truth to your statement with your ridiculous "rough memory". End of story. Never happened. The rest is just theater.

But my offer remains. Do you accept? I'll even let you go first. I'd already said that, as I recall, but just to be clear.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You cannot demonstrate any truth to your statement with your ridiculous "rough memory". End of story. Never happened. The rest is just theater.

The demonstration lies in the FACT that you were challenged re the the eternal punishment in hell for unbelievers. Members who were here then can easily testify to that. Your challenge then re exchanging questions was a fraud.

BEFORE GOD, I SWEAR THAT WHAT I AM CLAIMING IS THE TRUTH.

Can you make the same statement , Jl? Can you stand before God and say you never made that challenge to exchange questions? And then when I answered the question re hell, you refused to give your answer? BEFORE GOD?

Do I believe your theatrics? Nah. After the shameful Aquinas episode, which I actually copied and can easily repost, I don't trust what you say and do not believe your story for one second.

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BEFORE GOD, I SWEAR THAT WHAT I AM CLAIMING IS THE TRUTH.

Except that you said, did you not, that it was based upon your "rough memory"? That doesn't sound good.

Enough of this. You have one more chance. Either man up or retire. So my offer remains (again). Do you accept? I'll let you go first. Otherwise tuck your tail between your legs and run for it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Do I believe your theatrics?

Theatrics? You, of all people, think standing in front of God and stating the truth is theatrics?

Jl, I think we have your answer now. Any person unwilling to speak the truth before God can be definitely acknowledged to be lying.

If you lied before God, that would be a serous thing. I don't blame you for evading that challenge.

It is time for you to tell the truth. Your immortal soul may depend on it. Do you think that's theatrics also?

Blah, blah, blah. "Your immortal soul may depend upon it!" Talk about shrill.

Tell the truth? OK. I think you have told a wild tale. If it was true, you would have found the post by now and linked to it. You haven't because you know you are not being honest. You want me to trust your memory? Sorry, but no thanks.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

"Your immortal soul may depend upon it!" Talk about shrill.

From theatrics to shrill. You consider your immortal soul to be shrill? You're treading on dangerous ground. Be careful.

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Tell the truth? .......... Sorry, but no thanks.

Tell the truth TO GOD, Jl, not to me. TO GOD. We all see how you manage to evade the question. That was most obvious to all.

Are you prepared to deny God the truth like Peter denied Christ? Or is that just more shrill theatrics?

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From theatrics to shrill.

Good description of your actions. I agree.

I have no idea of what you are talking about. Jesus said our yes is to be yes, and our no is to be no. That is my practice. I think you are imagining things. Like I said, if you were right, you would have posted the link by now.

I think you swearing by God on the basis of a "rough memory" is really foolish.

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Or is that just more shrill theatrics?

Thanks again for the nice compliment of copying my comments.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I have no idea of what you are talking about.

In language simple enough for you to understand --- Can you make the same statement , Jl? Can you stand before God and say you never made that challenge to exchange questions? And then when I answered the question re hell, you refused to give your answer? BEFORE GOD?

That is from post #67. Several posts and several hours later, you Jl have still NOT proclaimed BEFORE GOD that you never made that challenge to answer questions. BEFORE GOD, Jl. Not before me.

My statement on the issue -

BEFORE GOD, I SWEAR THAT WHAT I AM CLAIMING IS THE TRUTH. That is from post #67.

Why would I want to deal with your foolishness? If you can prove your fake news, then go for it. Otherwise, move on. You have foolishly taken an oath based upon, as you said, your "rough memory". Don't expect me to do something that stupid, especially considering that you are, once again, at variance with the words of Christ. I am bound by those words. I do realize that you believe you are not.

"But I say to you, take no oath at all, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, nor [ad]by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING. 36Nor shall you take an oath by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. 37But make sure your statement is, ‘[ae]Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is [af]of evil origin."

Athos, you do realize you've gone far overboard with this? Is it really worth all that for an obscure message board? I mean taking a solemn oath over a silly dispute on a message board? Really??? You think you're right and I think you're wrong. Case settled. Move on.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Why would I want to deal with your foolishness?

To prove what you claim is true. Lacking a public pronouncement before God, we are left with no other conclusion that you are lying.

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"But I say to you, take no oath at all,

No one is asking you to take an oath. It's a simple request asking you to stand before God and tell the truth on this issue.

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Athos, you do realize you've gone far overboard with this? Is it really worth all that for an obscure message board?

So now this is nothing more than a silly message board and a silly dispute and I've gone far overboard. Well, Jl, you have the power to end it yourself. Admit you lied (good for the soul) or stand before God and tell the truth.

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Lacking a public pronouncement before God, we are left with no other conclusion that you are lying.

You mean like the one you gave based upon your "rough memory"? You mean like that? "Your honor, my testimony is that I roughly remember the accused robbing that bank." You would be laughed out of court just like you are being laughed at here.

Everything I say I say in the presence of God. Everything I say is my best effort at the truth. I take the words of Christ seriously when He said, "But make sure your statement is, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’;" I don't engage in silliness like truncating a quote from Aquinas to make it appear he meant one thing when, in fact, he meant the exact opposite.

You took an oath...foolishly. "BEFORE GOD, I SWEAR THAT WHAT I AM CLAIMING IS THE TRUTH." You might have added, "based upon my rough memory." Please. Stop, for your own sake. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You mean like the one you gave based upon your "rough memory"? You mean like that?

Yes, exactly like that one. But in YOUR own words.

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I take the words of Christ seriously when He said, "But make sure your statement is, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’;

Stop hiding behind Christ and make a public statement BEFORE GOD. You've now refused doing so more than Peter's three denials.

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You took an oath...foolishly. "BEFORE GOD, I SWEAR THAT WHAT I AM CLAIMING IS THE TRUTH."

Nothing could have been less foolish. Standing before God and swearing to the truth is a serious matter.

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You might have added, "based upon my rough memory."

Not necessary. God knows that.

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Please. Stop, for your own sake. Seriously.

I can sense beads of sweat on your forehead. Getting uncomfortable, are you? You know what you have to do. For your own sake. Seriously.

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Not necessary. God knows that.

Yes, and we also know it since, right after bragging about "SWEARING" to your fake news, you said it was based upon your "rough memory". It is sheer foolishness. No serious person takes an oath based upon a "rough memory".

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It's a simple request asking you to stand before God and tell the truth on this issue.

That's what you asked. I responded, "Everything I say I say in the presence of God. Everything I say is my best effort at the truth. I take the words of Christ seriously when He said, "But make sure your statement is, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’;" I don't engage in silliness like truncating a quote from Aquinas to make it appear he meant one thing when, in fact, he meant the exact opposite."

If walking in obedience to what Jesus said is, "Hiding behind Christ," then I happily plead, "Guilty as charged!" You should try it yourself. Really.

When a person is accustomed to telling the truth, it's not necessary to go into shrill theatrics to make his point. Rather than taking oaths, you could simply link to the post, but you can't do that since you can't find it. And why not? Because it doesn't exist, or more likely because you know it does not line up with your fantasy version.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yes, and we also know it since, right after bragging about "SWEARING" to your fake news, you said it was based upon your "rough memory". It is sheer foolishness.

I publicly stated my stance to God. You didn't. That's the difference.

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"Everything I say I say in the presence of God. Everything I say is my best effort at the truth.

Then it should be easy for you to make a public statement on the matter BEFORE GOD.

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it's not necessary to go into shrill theatrics to make his point.

Only to you, Jl, is referring to God and the immortality of the soul "shrill theatrics". Be careful what you say, Jl, you're teetering on the edge of peril.

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Rather than taking oaths, you could simply link to the post

Rather than refusing to do what is right, you could simply stand before God and tell the truth. But you continue to refuse to do that simple thing. We know why. It's pretty obvious by now.

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Rather than refusing to do what is right, you could simply stand before God and tell the truth. But you continue to refuse to do that simple thing. We know why. It's pretty obvious by now.

Yes, it is very obvious you cannot find the non-existent link. All your theatrical swearing is nonsense. If you don't have the goods, and you don't, then you are toast.