@Brother Rando

All that quote of ancient man is well and good but what does that have to do with your own personal relationship with the God that you understand? I can get with spreading the word and respect that's what you choose to do, and while the ancients are interesting, it would help my understanding of YOU, as an example of a true believer, if you can tie the relevance of ancient Christians to the reality of modern man since Jesus was a jew and taught from the jewish "bible". So now that Jewish bible is irrelevant, since his followers have started their own religion?

Yes, I get that a lot. Thanks for your comment though, as least I know I'm doing the right thing. The truth about Jehovah's Witnesses

Ya, your link "The truth about Jehovah's Witnesses", lost me as soon as I started reading and it started with JW's being the only true Christians walking the Earth.

That's your opinion, and your belief, and of course you believe it, otherwise you wouldn't be a JW. But, that's not everyone's belief, and it's very disrespectful to say that your religion is the only one that's worthy, that you're the only true Christians. What a load of bull. Every Christian believes they're the only ones following the true path, and that their God is the only true God.

If you want to talk about the bible, fine. If you want to talk about what God means to you, fine. But when you start preaching your religion as the only true religion, that's when people slam the door in your face. It's an insult, and above all, it's not accurate.

Religion is like a penis. It's okay to have one, and it's okay to be proud of it, but it's not okay to shove it in other people's face.

According to Bible Prophecy, Religion will be destroyed soon. The Political elements are already bringing her to nothing. No public Prayer. No Bibles in Federal Public Squares including courtrooms. When Religion thinks they had stopped Jehovah's Witnesses from witnessing about God's Name Jehovah and that Jesus is "the Christ, the son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16) something marvelous happens. I'm not telling you this in order to convert you, but to give you a witness.

"Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape." (1 Thessalonians 5:3)

Take Care...
Brother Rando

PS... When Religion goes down... Good riddance! Normally people go to prison for crimes such as killing someone. But JW's are put in prison for reusing to kill anyone. https://www.jw.org/en/news/

You don't need religion to believe in God, or to be a good person. Public prayer does nothing, and the bible is just a book. That's my belief.

No matter what you say you'd never convert me, so post your beliefs. Just remember that your beliefs are just that, yours. They do not encompass the world. If you want a debate, fine, just keep it friendly. But from what you post it doesn't look like you want a debate, you want a platform to preach on, and that just doesn't sit well with me.

Like I said before, religion is like a penis, and I'm so sick of people sticking their penis in my face. Why can't people of religion wait for people to ask about it? Why do they feel the need to preach to everyone? If it's so great, why aren't people coming to your door begging you to tell them about your God?

It just all feels very cultish to me.

It's cool to be the only true Christians, though I think other Christians would take umbrage at that claim, and dismiss it as just that, a claim, and not a statement of fact, and some admire the zeal in which you present your case, which personally seems the path to martyrdom rather than salvation, but to each his own I suppose. There should be something romantic in emulating the ways of ancient man, but its hard to excuse not accepting the reality of the human condition, including its history of evolution and development.

You seem to be stuck in the "back then" and unable to embrace the good of your fellow humans who are not exactly like you, and have no wish to be, but fortunately you also seem to be a stubborn minority, a small part of a greater story in which while we cannot change it, and certainly we should not, we cannot embrace it fully, but must accept it as is. Every human deserves that I think no matter how nutty they may sound.

I must confess a sadness though that you may never get in touch with the fact, and reality of God though, that's rather easy to understand, and that is in embracing all the other humans, as we are all connected to the same CREATOR, no matter the language of our religion, or how we celebrate it. It is indeed the imperative to not put such artificial conscript of human flaws before that reality.

I doubt even your own faith can deny that FACT. Though some understand it better than others, there is no excuse for ANY human to think he is better than another. Back to you.

Every member of religion should feel that their religion is the only true religion. Otherwise, why be in it?

However, just as the first century christians refused to take up arms , AS a whole, we reject engaging in war because we are neutral and the Bible states not to murder.

He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “You must not murder, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not bear false witness," (Matthew 19:18)



Here's an article if you want to a look at it. Why Don't Jehovah Witnesses Go to War?

Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17).

That's correct and as a religion Jehovah Witnesses are alone in this. They submit to the laws of the land but refuse to go against God's Law. Therefore we will not go out and kill when nations are in conflicts.

We respect the Flag and will stand for it, giving it respect. But we do not worship it for our God Jehovah is a Jealous God. You will not find a Jehovah Witness burning the Flag, or desecrating the Flag in any manner. Pay back to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

Jehovah will bring one enemy of his to another enemy to conflict by confusion and they will turn on there own. "Then Moses said to the people: “Do not be afraid. Stand firm and see the salvation of Jehovah that he will perform for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you will never ever see again. Jehovah himself will fight for you, and you will keep silent.” (Exodus 14:13-14)

"You will not need to fight this battle. Take your position, stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah in your behalf." (1 Chronicles 20:17)

Jehovah Witness simply do not engage in warfare. "You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48)

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Originally Posted by Brother Rando

That's correct and as a religion Jehovah Witnesses are alone in this. They submit to the laws of the land but refuse to go against God's Law. Therefore we will not go out and kill when nations are in conflicts.

etc., etc., etc.


Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48)

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That is a well-stated position regarding JW pacificism. Conscientious objection is a recognized stance in the US and other nations. On the other hand, it should be obvious that some Biblical authors took the opposite position as WG has cited.

Later, Augustine formed his "just war" theory which most Christians have followed ever since. Thank God he did or else we would all be living under tyrants. In the Gospels Jesus exhibited righteous anger and he famously said Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's, which can be taken in more than one way and which Augustine used in support of his theory.

As dwashbur said previously in this thread, those who study ancient languages (such as the Bible IN ITS ENTIRETY) can come up with various solutions, not always the same.

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Originally Posted by Brother Rando

Every member of religion should feel that their religion is the only true religion. Otherwise, why be in it?

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That is exactly my point! EVERYBODY thinks they are right, and EVERYBODY else is wrong! A typical human flaw that justifies all kinds of word, actions and behaviors that are patently IMPERFECT, and frankly distracts from grasping the REAL truth.

Is not denigrating other religions, but your own bearing false witness?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

That is exactly my point! EVERYBODY thinks they are right, and EVERYBODY else is wrong! A typical human flaw that justifies all kinds of word, actions and behaviors that are patently IMPERFECT, and frankly distracts from grasping the REAL truth.

Is not denigrating other religions, but your own bearing false witness?

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Excellent point. I meant to include this comment of Brother Rando in my post but I forgot. Agree 100% with Talinman.

Also, I heartily disagree with the notion that every member of a religion should think his is the only true one. No religion believes that anymore except for a handful of folks still living in the Middle Ages.

Even the Catholic Church ("There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church") has softened its stance on this belief, although grudgingly, I admit.

In (John 17:1) Jesus Christ approached his Father in pray openly with his disciples listening and stated, "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

"I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word." (John 17:6)

Soon, all wickedness will be removed from the earth so that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ can be worshiped without demonic opposition and JEHOVAH'S name will be vindicated WORLDWIDE. Jesus prayed, "Our Father hallowed be your Name". Jehovah Witnesses are the only true Christians going door to door "hallowing the Father's Name" by making it known.

Sorry... Only Jehovah Witnesses believe that... they just annoy the Hell out of the rest of us. I stopped trying to be nice to get rid of them years ago... I think they finally got the message because they don't bang on my door any more...

I'm not Atheist or agnostic... I'm a Protestant, I've spent more time in a Catholic Church the last 25 years than my own Because wife IS... but there is no chance I'll ever become Catholic, because I just don't agree with so much of where they Differ. And Nobody is going to convince me otherwise....

My Uncle is no longer a JW because when my aunt needed an operation they hounded them to NOT allow a transfusion and she died as a result...during post op bleeding days after the operation.there was another family nearby where I grew up that had two kids that suffered severe brain damage from high fevers when young due to doctrine that refuses medication (neither would ever be able to care for themselves as adults with a mental capacity of a 3 year old) they were much older than I was, and knew of a few others as well.

That is NOT something in the bible, that is a doctrine created by leaders of the JW who were nothing more than men/women.

Also many of them DON'T know the scripture as well as they think.....some elderly JW women showed up at a friends shop a number of years ago spouting off something incorrectly, and my friend told them they were mistaken and had it wrong...they got indignant about what he told them it really was......then he pulled his Bible out and showed them word for word it was EXACTLY as he said....because while you would never guess it to meet him....he had it memorized word for word, cover to cover. They couldn't leave fast enough. I was there and saw it happen.

Jehovah Witnesses only accept the 'Blood of Christ'. Those who don't believe in the 'Blood of Christ' seek salvation from a foreign source. "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day;" (John 6:54)

"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." (Matthew 16:25)

Salvation is not forced on anyone. Everyone has been given the gift of 'free will' and what they choose is their own choice. The door is open, for those who want to come in and for those who wish to leave, can leave.

Ok smoothy I can appreciate where you are coming from about religion. My upbringing was as a Catholic. I was always a spiritual person or at least thought so. Then I overheard someone asking another person for a Bible Study. I said I would be interested in getting some questions answered.

I noticed that we as catholics would say the same prayers over and over and not even understand what we were saying. It was more like chanting. You know the Lord's Prayer that Catholics recite at every church meeting. But I soon realized that the teachings of Jesus Christ were in a 180 opposite heading to the Catholic church.

For instance, Jesus stated, "When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.  So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need even before you ask him." (Matthew 6:7-8)

So I asked myself, do I obey Christ or do I obey my church who taught the opposite by saying the same things over and over again? Look up (Matthew 6:7-8).

If you obey the God that you understand then what do you need a bible for?

The Bible gives us instructions and God reveals himself through his Word. We can learn Bible Principles and try to apply them to our lives. A Bible Principle is a statement of truth that does not change with the passing of time or circumstance.

The truth is the truth. Our understanding of the truth is revealed progressively. A Bible can also give us directions much like a GPS. Many Archaeologists are atheists, yet, they have no quarrel in using the Bible to find remnants of lost cities and treasure.

Reading and researching the Bible can give us something that we can't buy. Peace of mind.

Here's an example of a Bible Principle. "The one who loves discipline loves knowledge, But the one who hates reproof is unreasoning.  The good person obtains Jehovah’s approval, But He condemns the man of wicked schemes.  No man is made secure by wickedness, But the righteous will never be uprooted." (Proverbs 12:1-3)

If you read, think, and meditate about these things, do you not receive a measure of calmness? Have you ever heard what goes around comes around? That statement comes the scriptures I shared with you. The Bible is full of treasures...

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Reading and researching the Bible can give us something that we can't buy. Peace of mind.

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Now that's cool, and I can respect that. Whether or not you can respect my way of achieving peace of mind is cool too.

Nobody knows how to pronounce His covenant name in the Old Testament ("Jehovah" is way wrong because Hebrew didn't have a "J" or "V" sound). But since we're on the afterward side of the New Testament, I just call Him "Daddy."

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Originally Posted by dwashbur

Nobody knows how to pronounce His covenant name in the Old Testament ("Jehovah" is way wrong because Hebrew didn't have a "J" or "V" sound). But since we're on the afterward side of the New Testament, I just call Him "Daddy."

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Abba Father.

The Hebrew Language had No Letters in it. NONE, it's called script. Those who deny the Father and God of Jesus Christ also deny the Son which was given a Name 'Jesus'.

This teaching is also anti- semitic in claiming there are No Jews, saying there is no 'J' in Hebrew. There is No 'Y' in Hebrew either, no letters at all. To pick one letter when there is None, is worse than an outright lie for it is an untruth with a dark agenda. Satan is the Father of the lie when he asked, "So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” (Genesis 3:1)

God made no such statement. To say there is no 'J' is the same “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” (Genesis 3:1) Such ones are already dying the second death, the lake of fire that symbolizes everlasting death. That is where their gnashing and weeping of teeth will be.....

"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:22)

To claim there is no Jesus because there is No 'J' won't produce salvation but an everlasting death in the same manner of Adam and Eve with no prospect of a Resurrection. There is no 'j' in hebrew, latin, or greek but when transliterated in English we do use the letters of our alphabet.

The trinity is the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ by omission. Look up the trinity doctrine and you will not find Jesus Christ in the doctrine. The trinity doctrine is a generic formula with No Names in it copied from Paganism. They teach a different and false doctrine. "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 7)

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The Hebrew Language had No Letters in it. NONE, it's called script. Those who deny the Father and God of Jesus Christ also deny the Son which was given a Name 'Jesus'.

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To be honest, I have no idea what you just said. The Hebrew language had, and still has, 22 letters. The one that got transcribed as "J" is actually a "Y" sound. So how did we end up with a "J"?

German, that's how. The word "Jehovah" comes to us from German transcription of the way it was written in the Hebrew manuscripts. Jewish scribes took the vowels from the word "adonai", which means "lord," and put them onto the Divine Name, YHWH, making a word pronounced roughly "Yehowah." In German, J" is pronounced like our "Y" and German "W" is pronounced like our "V". English translators saw the Hebrew word and weren't sure what to do with it, so they adopted the German transcription, but didn't bother to pronounce it German style.

This is how we got the word "Jehovah." It doesn't exist. It's not a real word, not even in Hebrew. It's an English corruption of a German attempt to transcribe an artificially-created Hebrew word that didn't really exist and was made to avoid pronouncing the Name. Anyone who hangs their theological hat on that is leaning on a broken reed, as my dad used to say.

@BR

Why do you feed this religious battle amongst your fellow Christians? Is it the rebel in you, or do you have something to prove? The trinity acknowledges the GOD, and Son, as well as the connecting spirit, yet you gripe about the pronunciation of a name?

That's TRIBAL thinking at it's worse. Unless you rise above it, you drown in your own CRAP!

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Originally Posted by Brother Rando

The Hebrew Language had No Letters in it. NONE, it's called script.

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What do you think script is made up of, bratwurst?

Your signature is script.

The Hebrew language had no letters. God's Name was in the form of the tetragram. Some referred to the script as characters not letters.

God has One Name (יהוה)... spelled different in every language. How Many Names Does God Have?

Ezekiel 39:7

I will make my holy name known among my people Israel, and I will not allow my holy name to be profaned any longer; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, the Holy One in Israel.’

Your comment about the Hebrew language still makes no sense. I cannot take you seriously while you keep trying to tell me that the language I have studied for 40 years, have an advanced degree in, and sometimes think in when I'm on the edge of sleep, has no letters, yet it had a script. That does not make sense. I don't know where you got some kind of distinction between letters and characters, but that frankly makes me laugh.

Hebrew had, and still has, 22 letters. And nobody knows how to pronounce the tetragram, but it really doesn't matter. How many times do you see it appear in the New Testament?

I still call him Daddy. I love it when He just wraps His arms around me and holds me. Like a daddy.

Many scriptures from the New Testament were quotes from the Old Testament that had the Hebrew Tetragram in them, even Jesus quoted some of them. God's name was in the New Testament 297 times. It was replaced with LORD then Lord in the last century so one would need to read the entire context to see if the scripture was talking about Jehovah or Jesus. I'll show you an example.

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” (Rev 1:8)

Members of Christendom proclaim this is talking about Jesus but Jesus is not the Almighty. A closer look at this scripture is that the Name of Jesus is absent. SO who is this scripture talking about? "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD (God Jehovah Isa 44:6; Gen 17:1; Exo 6:3 ), which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Rev 1:8) Jehovah God was removed and a deceptive Lord was inserted which at one time was LORD. A deception that came about in the last century. http://brotherrando.webstarts.com/contact.html

Several things to note. The LORD is capitalized and "God" was also removed from the scripture to convey a lie. Also the scriptures is taken from the Old Testament. "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. (Luk 20:37; Rev 1:8; Rev 4:8; Rev 11:17; Rev 15:3 ) Exodus 6:3

Jehovah in the New Testament 297 References With Jesus' Testimony in Red Letters http://www.dnkjb.net/1189chapters/scripturalbasis.htm

Brother Rando, do/did you have a mother and father?

"It was replaced with LORD then Lord in the last century"

Evidence? Every Greek manuscript we have uses KURIOS, "lord," in those passages. Nothing was ever "replaced." If you have evidence to the contrary, how about letting us see it?

"Every Greek manuscript we have uses KURIOS, "lord," in those passages."

Yes, Kurios is the greek word used for Lord and LORD. Let's look at a few scriptures. (Romans 10:13) "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD, (Jehovah Jol 2:31,32 2Ti 2:19) shall be saved. This New Testament scripture was a quotation from the Old Testament. Notice LORD not Lord. Lord came in later translations trying to confuse the reader of whom the scripture was talking about.

(Joel 2:32) "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as Jehovah hath said, and in the remnant whom Jehovah shall call." (Act 2:20,21,39; Rom 10:13; 2Pe 3:10) AS you can see this Old Testament scripture was quoted in the New Testament several times but God's Name was removed.

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Originally Posted by Brother Rando

Yes, Kurios is the greek word used for Lord and LORD.

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What's the difference?

LORD refers to Jehovah and Lord refers to Jesus. "The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." (Psalms 110:1)

Lord is simply a title not a Name. In the removal of God's Name, translators also removed the name of prophets and inserted a different name.

Case and Point. Isaiah when translated means 'Salvation of Jehovah' and thus Isaiah was changed to Esaias in the Greek New Testament. This was done by a devious design to mislead the reader.

(Romans 10:16 KJV) "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, LORD, (Jehovah Isaiah 53:1 ) who hath believed our report?"

1. If you look at Romans 10:13 in context, "the Lord" refers to Jesus. Paul is equating Jesus with Yahweh (Jehovah is a word that never existed and is thus meaningless). So if it's referring to Yahweh, then Jesus and Yahweh are one.

2. "Isaiah" was "changed" to Esaias because of the way the Greek language works. There are structures and sounds in Hebrew that didn't exist in Greek so they had to do the best they can.

3. Languages do this all the time and always have. "John" comes from two different Hebrew roots, Yonatan and yehonatan. Greek doesn't have a way to put an "h" sound in the middle of a word, and they have their own ways of ending words, so it came out Ioannes. That passed into Latin, and from there it spread thus:
Spanish: Juan
French: Jean
English: John or Jon
German: Johann
Russian: Ivan

All the same name. Just adapted to the way different languages operate. It's the same with names etc. from the Old Testament. Your idea about names being "changed" does not stand up to scrutiny.

You realize that the 'J' wasn't in the Greek Scriptures either. So it's quite interesting you used 'John' when it wasn't in the New Testament of the Greek Scriptures. Care to explain your hypocrisy?

Let me point it out to the Forum for you:
"John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me." (John 1:15)

Now let's look at the Greek:
Strong's Concordance

Ióannés: John, the name of several Israelites

Original Word: Ἰωάννης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Ióannés
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-o-an'-nace)
Short Definition: John
Definition: John: the Baptist, the apostle, a member of the Sanhedrin, or John Mark.

So if I wanted to be hypocritical such as yourself, I could say there is No Jehovah or Jesus in all the scripture and yet be telling the truth. It's when Hebrew and Greek are TRANSLITERATED into ENGLISH we use OUR ALPHABET.

If you want to push your false narrative, please do it in the Hebrew or Greek Script from now on and stop using the letter "j" in all your responses.

"Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (Daniel 12:10)

http://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif

1. If you want to push your false narrative, please do it in the Hebrew or Greek Script from now on and stop using the letter "j" in all your responses.

TROLL SUPREME IGNORE!!

"You realize that the 'J' wasn't in the Greek Scriptures either. So it's quite interesting you used 'John' when it wasn't in the New Testament of the Greek Scriptures. Care to explain your hypocrisy?"

I use "John" in English. That's how it came down to us. Again, same name, different language. I get the feeling you didn't pay any real attention to what I wrote, just glommed onto one thing, and made a mess. So not only do you consistently take the Scriptures out of context, you do the same thing with my words.

I do believe I'm done with you. Fire back as you wish, I won't be looking. I'm through with this thread.

Just pointing out the religious hypocrisy. When a person claims we can't use God's Name with the "J" then that argument should be used for ALL LETTERS of our English Alphabet, since the Hebrew Language had no letters in to begin with. That was my point. The Hebrew Tetragrammaton was both in Hebrew and Greek. The Jews didn't want to transliterate the Name of God into a different language, so they left the Hebrew Tetagamation 'as is' amidst other language such as Greek. Look at the Greek Septuagint.

Anyway, we have more in common than indifference...