Ask Me Help Desk - Do you hope for or believe in a life after this one?

germain,
Thank you much for your clarification.
Yes, I agree that the "big stuff" you refer to MAY be on the way soon, and maybe not.
Tests for what they are looking for may fail for some believe that "the God particle" and others don't exist as theorized to be now.
Proving that unseen, unproven "dark matter" exists would be amazing, but some believe it does not exist, that something else is afoot in the universe to cause the galaxies to act as they do.
The same with dark energy causing the expansion of the universe.
Some believe that there is a different explanation still un-found.
So goes science.
Lots of questions in the past answered but many more new ones arise from them.
It is a sequence that will go on and on. Often when a new answer is found more questions will soon be asked.
It's exciting.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I refer to post #28 by germain in which she stated :

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

If you all believe what science has to say about these things than listen to this ..Science has theorys on other dimensions. They have not proved them but they are trying now.

There are more dimensions that just width, height, and depth. There is also time.
Then there are several other proven dimensions, and several other suggested dimensions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

If you wanna see for yourself look up Large Hadron Collider ..I've been following up with it for a long time now. Even science has theorys that other dimensions exist so much so that they are building this giant machine to prove or disprove of these other dimensions.

"Even science"? Science is the only one that suggests and proves other dimensions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

You can relate these other dimensions to life after death for if they exist it clearly proves theres something more to this life.

That is a nonsensical statement. Other dimensions have nothing to do with life after death.
Nothing in science clearly proves spiritual claims like life after death.
As far as science is concerned there is/are no god deities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

Basically the machine will shoot two photon beams at the speed of light ,

Incorrect ! First of all photons always travel at light speed.
Cern is using "hadrons" (in this case either protons or (lead) ions). Nothing made of matter can ever reach the speed of light, as it would require more than all the energy present in the universe to speed up even one single proton to lightspeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

.... they will circle the giant machine and will crash against each other smashing the atoms so hard they will break into the smallest of pieces.

As stated : photons are not used, and hadrons are not atoms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

Now there is a theory on black hole being created by this.

Not a theory. Just a thesis. A suggested possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

If indeed a black hole is created (mind you even black holes are theorys up to date) ...

Incorrect ! The existence of black holes have been confirmed by scientific means. They are not a thesis, but a fact. Actually the ides of a black hole is rather simple, logical, and convincing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

....it will suck in some pieces of the atom and they will "vanish into thin air" proving they went into another dimension.

Incorrect ! They will not "vanish into thin air" but just simply get pushed together by gravity so hard that light (radiation) can no longer escape from them, i.e. can't be seen, i.e. they become a black hole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

So when they do launch this project look for a big clue to life after death there.

Incorrect ! The Cern Hadron Collider is developed to investigate the structure of matter.
Cern has nothing to do with "life after death", or intends to do anything in the spiritual field. Neither will any outcome of CERN be reflecting to "life after death".

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Follow this link to more info on the Cern Hadron Collider experiments ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

I dont know what part of the "Large Hadron Collider" you guys didn't pick up!

Well my previous post shows that your original article was far from accurate...

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

This is the most extraordianry scientific achievement EVER. It will be launched very soon.

Incorrect ! The collider has already been activated in July-August and went for seconds to full power 2 weeks ago, after which it was stopped to warm up for repair (official statement refers to Liquid Helium leaks).
First it would be out of action for two months, but some hours ago it was officially announced that it will be out of action till spring 2009.
(See the link I provided in my previous post, and the link in that one to topics on Cern elsewhere on the board).

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

They are recreating what happens milliseconds after the "big bang".

Incorrect ! Nothing can "recreate" whatever happened directly after the Big Bang.
What really is intended to be done is to use the LHC to recreate the conditions just after the Big Bang.
What actually happens is that the matter of the colliding hadrons will be smashed to pieces (literally), and that may result in particles (of most probably extremely short existence) that we do not yet know from previous experiments.

The similarity to the Big Bang ends with that. Just after the Big Bang such small particles may have existed for a short period, before they combined into other bigger particles. If such small particles do not appear, science may have to review the theory on what is matter !

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

Do you realize how much theorys will be proved and disproved by this expirement?

I do, but you clearly don't. It is not the intention to prove anything with these experiments.
Neither will any existing theories be proved or disproved.
It may be necessary to upgrade some theories or thesis, similar to Newtons Theory of Gravity had to be upgraded by the new Theories by Einstein on Relativity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

.... all the sci-fi stuff time travel....

Incorrect ! The Captain Kirk stories are and remain science fiction. They are Holywood products and have nothing to do with science. Nor with reality. They are just fun.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Altenweg and Cred,
I also wish him well and am sorry to hear that he has gone.
Fred

I cannot believe there is a god because where did he get his knowledge from I do believe in jesus but I think he was a alien or a clone from the future, wandering star=ufo walking on water anti-gravity belt, cream that disolves catteract on eyes, image of jesus after death a hollogram, etc I do believe in after life but after we have gone through many deaths and experienced different ways of living therefore at the end we meet like wise souls. Just a thought. Chris.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QUACKERS

... i do believe in jesus but i think he was a alien or a clone from the future

Of course you may BELIEVE anything you want, Chris !

But I prefer to live with reality. With Objective Supporting Evidence (OSE) as guideline for my life and worldview.

For me as freethinker no Captain Kirk and going to where nobody went before, no aliens on earth (I do accept the possibility of the existence of aliens elsewhere in the universe), no time travel, no religion, no creation, no supra-natural entities, no afterlife.

:)

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QUACKERS,
Yours is an interesting belief.
However I do not believe as you do and particularly the alien bit and the many lives.
Thanks for sharing your beliefs with us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

QUACKERS, are you referring to reincarnation? That is until you are some kind of 'satisfied' and no more relive another life? Because I know someone like that...

EDIT: But I do reject that idea of alien, as Fred said.

Unknown008,
To my way of thinking reincarnation is a system of one punishing life after another.
It taught that it is a way fro a person to improve himself, BUT that person does not remember his/her past lives so they continually make the same mistakes or others, and must suffer through another many lives.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Unknown008,
To my way of thinking reincarnation is a system of one punishing life after another.
It taught that it is a way fro a person to improve himself, BUT that person does not remember his/her past lives so they continually make the same mistakes or others, and must suffer through another many lives.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

But if you move up from cockroach to rabbit to horse to human, you won't make the same mistakes since the lifestyles are totally different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

To my way of thinking reincarnation is a system of one punishing life after another.

Funny suggestion, Fred, from one who believes in one life followed by an eternal existence in either heaven or hell - both an eternal punishment in my views...

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But if you move up from cockroach to rabbit to horse to human, you won't make the same mistakes since the lifestyles are totally different.

Not to forget that you may also move down from human to horse to rabbit to cockroach to banana "tree", etc.

But may be that is not down at all...

:rolleyes:

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Tir na Nog- or the Land of Eternal Youth-
I'm Pagan myself, and I believe in the afterlife
From to story of Oisin in Tir na Nog...

"Delightful is the land beyond all dreams,
Fairer than anything your eyes have ever seen.
There all the year the fruit is on the tree,
And all the year the bloom is on the flower.

"There with wild honey drip the forest trees;
The stores of wine and mead shall never fail.

Nor pain nor sickness knows the dweller there,
Death and decay come near him never more.

"The feast shall cloy not, nor the chase shall tire,
Nor music cease for ever through the hall;
The gold and jewels of the Land of Youth
Outshine all splendors ever dreamed by man."

-Excerpt from Celtic Myths and Legends, by T. W. Rolleston.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyderglass

.... I'm Pagan myself, and I believe in the afterlife from to story of Oisin in Tir na Nog...

Interesting view...
As I always say : from me you may believe what ever you prefer...

:rolleyes:

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I don't believe in an afterlife, but I believe I'll be thoroughly recycled, which is a sort of reincarnation. But then I am already being constantly recycled, as my proteins are degraded, excreted, and replaced by new molecules and new atoms.

I don't believe in a soul or in the concept of ensoulment. I don't think there is any evidence for a soul, an afterlife, or reincarnation. But if someone else believes, and it makes them feel better, why should I object? As long as they don't hurt or threaten anyone else. I do object when people say that someone else is going to hell (or similar) just because they don't share the same beliefs; that seems like a threat to me, even if, from my point of view, an empty one. It's the thought that counts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by asking

I don't believe in an afterlife ....

I agree. But at the other hand I accept that part of me lives on after my death.
(Part of) my genes have been copied to my children and grandchildren, and in that way part of me (my identity) will live on.

As to continuous recycling : indeed : spot on !
Also on the soul or in the concept of ensoulment. No evidence for soul, afterlife, or reincarnation, heaven, hell, deities, entities, ghosts, spirits, angles, elfs, fairies, leprechauns, cluricauns, far darrig, silkies, banshees, changelings, etc. etc.

:)

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So...
Spread thy seed and live forever!!
Ha ha ha
:)

Very interesting discussions on this right now.
Thanks.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

(Part of) my genes have been copied to my children and grandchildren, and in that way part of me (my identity) will live on.

True. But our genes will be passed on even we don't have children. :)

There are so many humans now and we are so genetically diverse that there's little chance that any important genes will be lost even if lots of people have no children.

Even particular combinations of genes are ephemeral. In a few generations, your genome is so diluted (your children have half your genes, your grandchildren 1/4, your great grand children 1/8, the next generation 1/16) that it's like your particular and unique combination of genes never existed. Anyway, something similar is likely to come up again in another throw of the genetic dice somewhere else in the world. We are all immortal until our species goes extinct (which it will), continuously alive through one another's children.

Biophilosophy 101

asking,
Yes that is true.
But keep in mind that we are made of start stuff and will all go back to being star stuff.
Our atoms and energies will continue until after the universe burns itself out, but even then the mass will still be there.
Our spirits are another matter entirely.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes. We are recycled stellar waste. :)
Someone was telling me that souls have a weight that can be measured, but when I tried to look it up, I just found a single 1907 paper. A doctor weighed a handful of patients while they were dying and claimed the lost about an ounce an half. I thought it didn't sound very rigorous and I couldn't find where anyone repeated it.

If souls have mass then they are natural objects subject to scientific study, yes?

asking,
All persons dying lose weight for various reasons, mainly burning off and the energy disipates.
Souls are spiritual.
Thus they have no parts or mass.
At least that is what I have been lead to believe from several sources.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by asking

... In a few generations, your genome is so diluted ....

True. Still it is the only CERTAIN way in which we live on after death.
Any other way is no more than belief-based.

:rolleyes:

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Well hello hello everyone, it looks like I got ripped apart since I left lol. Credendovidis I agree with you that I left the "real" sceince part of the project out and threw theory after theory but my point was just to interest everyone on the possibilities that might be unearthed here. Though they are farfetched there is that dim glow of hope that something miraculous will come out of this. One thing I didn't agree with though was how other dimensions don't show that there is life after death. Because other dimensions are not a real place far far away into outer space. They are real dimensions co-existing with ours but we just can't see it. So it would show there is layers and layers of "places/dimensions". I'm not saying other dimensions prove life after death in themselves but if they do exist, does the idea of life after death sound crazy? God no. it sounds as real and sound as other dimensions. Other dimensions would just make the idea of lif after death not as crazy and hard to believe although I agree they wouldn't prove it.

Germain,
I think that there are many dimensions.
I just read in Astronomy magazine that there are several dimensions in the gravity pathways between the planets; the three we witness here on earth plus several others.
Quantum mechanics shows that there are far more.
One of them could be called heaven by some folks.
I don't know.
I believe that heaven is a state of spiritual being and could be right close (astronomically speaking) by not necessarily very far way.
The universe is an amazingly huge and complex place with far more unanswered questions that the answers that have been discovered so far; so many scientists claim.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by germain

... one thing i didnt agree with though was how other dimensions dont show that there is life after death. because other dimensions are not a real place far far away into outer space...

Why would that be? If other dimensions exist, there is no reason to assume that they are reserved to any specific portion or area of the universe.

At present we only can prove four dimensions to exist, i.e. width, heigth, depth, and time.
All other proposed dimensions are unproved so far.

Any debate on "life after death" should be seen within our own dimensions and whatever else we can prove to exist. If not done any such debate will water down into endless babble.

:)

Cred,
November issue of Astronomy Magazine has an article in it about gravity pathways out among the planets that have several different dimensions other than those here on this planet.
Those pathways are used by interplanetary vehicles exploring the solar system.
It was very interesting.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Not only do I hope for but I know there is a life after this one. Every believer in Jesus must have faith in him. Have faith and you will assend and jion him in paradise.

Every person who believes has had to have some proof or they just feel the right way. Faith is not only an emotion but also an action. Jesus love us all.

Now with the part of the bible you have recited there is a few reasons Jesus brung the boy back to life. One his mother was lonely and had no other. The second is the boy would have not assended to heaven because Christ had not yet died for our sins leaving the boy full of sin in the afterlife.

Eagle USA,
Very good post.
Thanks,
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

I answered back on Sept. 17 and I keep seeing the question, of course when others answer it. I have a comment on the wording of the question now that I have thought about it for a good while.
Religions are different, but for Christians in my denomination, "hoping" for life after this one doesn't satisfy the requirements "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life".
Believing has strings attached as to how you live your life. Hoping requires no commitment, and maybe earns no reward. That's just my opinion based on what I have been hearing in my church for about 50 years. I fully realize that other religions may see things very differently, and some folks are comfortable with no belief, etc and I respect their views.

3 Chord Elijah,
Please tone it down with the name calling,
I'd like to see you here more often as the good Christian that you can be as you have proven before.
By the way Aton is not finished. He is on a Yahoo forum.
Peace, kindness, and good wished,
Fred (arcura)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Cred, November issue of Astronomy Magazine has an article in it about gravity pathways out among the planets that have several different dimensions other than those here on this planet. Those pathways are used by interplanetary vehicles exploring the solar system. It was very interesting.

Dear Fred. Science has NEVER proved any dimension beyond the four known dimensions to exist. Anything beyond these four is pure speculation. Any science orientated person should know that.
Only people who already believe all kinds of mythological claims may be willing to accept also all the speculation on more dimensions to exist.

If we can not prove other dimensions here on earth, how would you think we can prove that by means of "gravity pathways out among the planets"??

It is all speculation, dear Fred !

Peace and kindness to you too !

John

:)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle USA

Not only do I hope for but I know there is a life after this one.

You may HOPE for that. You may BELIEVE that.
But you do not KNOW that.

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 3 Chord Elijah

Hey freethinker John! ....

Reported to board management.

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There is no afterlife. Your life on earth is the one we all have - make it fun, magical and fruitful.

Needkarma,

And you know this to be true because?? If it were true Needkarma, I would agree with you.. eat, drink and be merry but ever considered there IS? What happens if you are wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

Needkarma,

And you know this to be true because?????? If it were true Needkarma, i would agree with you..eat, drink and be merry but ever considered there IS? What happens if you are wrong.?

ClassyT, I won't answer for Needkarma, but for myself. The idea that not believing in an afterlife means not having any values--your "eat, drink, and be merry"--is false and basically insulting. I don't need to have a threat of hell or at least no heaven to know what my values are and to follow them. I don't have to have a priest or a God with thunderbolts keeping me on a short leash. I can choose to do the right thing because it is the right thing. Period.

If I'm wrong, and there is a vengeful God who punishes people who follow Christian values but don't believe in God--in other words, not for behaving badly but for not believing in him--then I'm screwed. But I'm willing to take that (very small) risk in order not to be bullied into adopting false beliefs by people like you who threaten others with their imaginary friends and places.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

Needkarma,

And you know this to be true because?????? If it were true Needkarma, i would agree with you..eat, drink and be merry but ever considered there IS? What happens if you are wrong.?

If I'm wrong? Nothing much I guess. I'm dead after all. If there is something after this life then that's good I guess. I'm a good guy I don't suspect I'll be in a burning place. I'm certainly not going to become some invisible-god worshiping guy, I see the divisiveness it causes (this forum being a very good example) and I want none of that for myself and my children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asking

ClassyT, I won't answer for Needkarma, but for myself. The idea that not believing in an afterlife means not having any values--your "eat, drink, and be merry"--is false and basically insulting. I don't need to have a threat of hell or at least no heaven to know what my values are and to follow them. I don't have to have a priest or a God with thunderbolts keeping me on a short leash. I can choose to do the right thing because it is the right thing. Period.

If I'm wrong, and there is a vengeful God who punishes people who follow Christian values but don't believe in God--in other words, not for behaving badly but for not believing in him--then I'm screwed. But I'm willing to take that (very small) risk in order not to be bullied into adopting false beliefs by people like you who threaten others with their imaginary friends and places.

Geesh...

you WANT to read into eat, drink, and be merry as insulting.GO FOR IT. I didn't add AND have no values. I used that term because the apostle paul used it. Not sure who wants to bully you into adopting a false belief... I just asked a question. What IF? Run along and pick a fight with someone else. I got a football game to watch.

Credendovidis
I believe Eagle USA does know.
And does NOT need to prove it to anyone.
The reason is that I also KNOW.
Peace and kindness