Believe in God the creator the almighty and understand repenting of sin you are off to a good start I think
|
Believe in God the creator the almighty and understand repenting of sin you are off to a good start I think
I was brought up as Roman Catholic, I also went to other church services from other denominations growing up. The church has changed a lot over the years and I believe that church can be beneficial... I also believe that you should always be open to new experiences... Trying different churches out, studying the bible... Just because you may not believe that the bible was not written by God, but only by men... I believe that Gods codes or life imprint or guided spirit is within each of us. It is up to us to open up to his word, which his word is within each of us. Jesus said, he would send a comforter to all of us. Without God nothing would be possible, but I truly feel that within each and everyone of us, has different gifts and different ways of expressing those gifts... The spirit can lead us in many different books. Is the Bible more important then God know, but the bible if used in the proper hands can be a blue print in each of our lives..Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
As far as contradictions, The old testament is more of a history book and stories of the experiences of people in those days. It is a story told by the witnesses of that day and were expressed in different ways depending on the persons outlook and experience of life.
I would also like to add that many of the stories and influences of the bible are their to show future generations of their cultures and beliefs and how there is always room for forgiveness, love, and compassion no matter what is happening in life.
For me personally, nothing was shoved down my throat and I do not believe I do that with others. I started at a very young age reading the bible on my own, it was my guide in life. I had no father figure and God was my only true father that I could depend on and the one way I got to know God was through reading the bible and meditating and praying...
So since a young age I have always had God within me and I have always believed the bible to be true accounts of God, and his love for his creation.
I do not quote but like to give examples of certain stories or relate to others by my own personal experiences in life. We can help each other through our stories, our life stories and that is why I believe there are so many stories in the bible. To show us, and guide us and help us along the path of LOVE, FORGIVENESS, AND SO MUCH MORE.
I am rambling on and on... I just know that the bible and getting to know God through prayer and meditation has helped many times... Not just for understanding when life is hard for myself but to also give strength to other people.
I also would like to add that I do believe our own personal experiences while we are young, whether with family, church , etc... can and do shape what we may believe or not believe when older...
Many people who have had bad experiences in the church or school, are then turned away from that certain denomination... It is understandable but as the old saying goes.. do not judge the book by its cover, or do not let one bad apple ruin everything.
I have had my own personal experiences in the church that I do not agree with and never will, then there are other things that I do agree with. It is up to each of us to stand up for what each of us as individuals believe in... To share that with each other, my belief is we all can share with each other our different views and thoughts and beliefs is good for all of us.
Joe I value your input, and I do respect your beliefs. To you the bible is a comfort, the word of God, I don't begrudge you that, in fact I will admit that I envy your unfaltering belief, your commitment to that belief.
You have never preached to me, or to anyone else on this site as far as I know. You are an example of someone that lives his life according to his beliefs without feeling the need to make anyone else feel or think the same way. I respect that.
I can't say that I am as respectful of that, I have gotten into arguments with people about religion, that is something I do not wish to do. I realized, recently, that allot of the time, when a fight or argument ensues, if I would have just backed down, or spoken more respectfully, then the argument would not have begun.
I started this thread to share my beliefs, and to ask about others beliefs. Perhaps I did word it in a way that forced people to stand up for their beliefs, if so I apologize, that was not my intention.
I did realize that I might be opening a huge can of worms by posting this, but I honestly wanted to discuss this, with everyone. If I've hurt anyone's feelings then I apologize for that too, that was not my intention.
I know that my experiences growing up (not because of my parents, they truly were the most wonderful parents anyone could have asked for) turned me away from the bible and Church, and I have no desire whatsoever to turn back to either of them. My experiences did not turn me away from God, I still believe.
I guess I'm a bit confused, struggling to understand how Christians, and someone like me, could really believe in the same God. Our beliefs are so very different, so do we believe in the same God? I don't know. And if we don't, then why?
I keep asking more questions, and I know that there aren't any answers.
I cannot accept the bible as fact, nor can I put my faith in organized religion, so how can anyone answer my questions when the two things that any Christian would use to convince me are things I will not accept?
Maybe I should ask that this thread be closed, I don't want anyone to be hurt by anything I say.
Perhaps this thread has done one thing. Now you all understand my beliefs more, and perhaps, by understanding that, you can better understand me. :)
I don't put my faith in any denomination either. I believe that most of them lead people away from the truth rather than to the truth. I DO study their doctrines and compare them to the Bible and learn what I can from it though.
I admire you, Alty, for posting your question on a public board and risking a few arrows. It sounds like you are open to God being in your life, and isn't that what it's all about, no matter what a person believes?
I agree she is more open to God than many that do good works trying to 'buy' their way to heaven which many do-gooder church people mistakenly do.
God of the Jews,
God of the Christians,
God of the Native Indians,
The God of etc...
What I am saying here is there is in my belief one God, but we all see different aspects of that same God. Each of us has something different to offer. Meaning that... By sharing each others beliefs and how each person has come to that belief is important to share..
Even though Alty, you feel there is two major things that separate you from what Christians believe. I betcha if you dig a little deeper and get more posting going on you will find there may be more similarities then you think. Just a thought.
For example: There are many experiences I had in church that were not necessarily positive, but I look at things completely different then what the church teaches or practices. So some things I do not agree with and won't... but I do not think it matters what church, religion, denomination or person you speak with.. There is good and bad with everything and it is up to each of us to find what is right for us, I mean find and discover what beliefs we do have...
Like you have said you Believe in God, in your own way.
You believe in Jesus.
I think we all have our own ideas, and no man made religion can satisfy our thirst for the complete true loving God, but as I said I believe we can find that truth within ourselves...
My own opinion...
I was a Lutheran, but never an active member of the Church. We went to Church twice a year, once at Christmas (my parents loved the carolling and the decorations) and once on Easter (again, the decorations, the songs, and the fact that it was a great excuse to buy a new outfit). ;)
My parents never pushed Church on me, nor did they push God on me. Like I said before, it was my decision to go the Catholic school, because my best friend went to that school.
My parents believed in God, much the same way I do now. I guess in a way I'm sticking to my roots, even though they never said that I had to, and never actually described their actual faith or belief.
The stories they told, the things that they did, and things that happened in our lives, that's where my belief came from.
I can honestly say, no matter what is said here, I will never venture into a Church as a member.
Sorry everyone, I hope you can accept that.
Wondergirl, NoHelp and Joe, thank you, that's really all I can say, thank you. :)
Alty, that is your choice and you need to stay true to yourself.. and true to your beliefs and your roots. (;
Jesus said the two greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. From what I've observed, Alty, those commandments are written on your heart.
Thanks everyone. :)
Good discussion, great friends. :)
Exactly what I am saying it is the purity of heart that God has mercy on whom he will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Not what denomination you attended or how many times you made it to a service within a week or a month or year.
Alty, You know what Lately I have been going to a different denomination church and they try to get you in as a member, and accept the church as your new home...Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
I have still not committed myself or my family because I believe that I am just a visitor, to any church or denomination I go to. I am just a VISITOR..
I belong to God. That is simple. So I do not feel the need to commit to any church, even though they want you to, that is just not in my belief either.
I guess we aren't really all that different after all. :)
Same here JH
Many will even tell you you have to have a church home and not church hop within the denomination but every time I ever went to different churches because the Holy Spirit led me I was really really blessed each time.
There are quite a few other books that have affected the lives of millions of people (good as well as bad), so the Bible is not particularly unique by that criterion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
My opinion is (I BELIEVE) that many, many such texts (hundreds at least, maybe thousands) exist in the world, and that they are all more than "just a book". I really don't have a problem accepting the Bible as a holy book of scripture, but I have a BIG problem accepting it as the ONLY holy book of scripture. To me, the scriptures of the world contain the accumulated stories of humanity's yearning for and attempts to approach the transcendent and the ineffable--that which is believed to be real, but is just beyond the grasp of the rational intellect. Those of us who have some measure of that yearning in our own mind (not everybody does) can learn much from reading these texts. But I don't think any of them are The Word of God.
As to why churches use scriptures the way they do, it's important to remember that churches are voluntary social organizations. That means any individual can unilaterally remove themselves from the church, and the church can expel and exclude any person it deems unworthy to belong. So they have a need to make up a list of rules and regulations and criteria that define who is to be regarded as "one of us", and who is to be treated as "one of them". Many of them seem to think that scripture is the right tool for this job, and they often develop considerable skill wielding it as device for sorting sheep from goats. This turning of scriptures into rulebooks for inclusion and exclusion based on required beliefs and behaviors is a degradation and perversion of them, in my opinion.
I would actually like to hear your thoughts on what I said...Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ml#post1205948
Hi Alty,
Great question and great thread.
Being a Roman Catholic and attending Catholic school, we never had our head in the bible.
Mostly, it was the ten Commandments taught over and over.
During Mass, readings from the bible are read, and then explained. Which actually is my favorite part of the mass.
I believe there are truths in the bible, and it is a tool, to keep us strong, and on the right path, but man did have a role in writing it, so they may have added their views to it as well, but it should not take away from the truths that are in there.
The bible is a tool, the ten Commandments, Mother Teresa's writings, the love we have for God and others in our hearts, are all tools that can be incorporated in our daily lives, to help keep God, and His love, the central point in our lives.
Couldn't resist adding my thoughts to this. ;)
The reason for my believing in the bible as God's Word is that he is more than capable of using numerous men as his secretaries to pen his thoughts, and to keep them pure down to this day, which he himself promised (Psa 12:6,7). It doesn't make sense to me that God would inspire something to be written, but then not be able to sustain it over time. The problem is certain men themselves, distorting and adding, even taking away sayings from the scriptures to suit themselves. (Something the apostles were careful not to do.) For this reason they were told to keep testing whether they were in the faith and to keep proving what they themselves were. (2 Cor 13:5)
So really if we were to study it deeply and meditate on the things we read, we'd soon discover the wonderful purpose God has for mankind and how the problems we all face will shortly be solved, and not just in a few countries but globally. Pity you won't change your mind Alt. It really is a guidebook for mankind. It's just a matter of how one chooses to use it as to whether it works or not.
:)
All you actually did in that statement was separating the 3 mono-theistic religions from all others, and declare them all 3 to be different versions describing one and the same entity.Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
Besides that your selection makes all other religions invalid (without providing reasoning why), I do not think that many christians and jews will agree that their god is one the same as yours, in view of the different guidance it provides.
Maybe you can explain how you see that a little more clearly.
:)
·
I don't see where Firmbeliever did that at all. She said compare all religions and see what you come up with.
I take her monolith as meaning All roads lead to heaven type thing.
I sure don't get where FB invalidated any religious beliefs.
If you would follow the link she provided, you would see that in post #38 - the one she referred to !Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Firmbelievers link
:rolleyes:
·
THAT IS the one I was referring to
I don't see what firmbeliever said as any different than the Christian teaching where the Bible talks about beware of false teaching and false prophets.Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
How can you relate that than to Hinduism, and many other multi-theistic religions?Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
It is like Pascals Wager : if it is valid to reject one or more other gods, why can't the single god you believe in not be rejected also ?
Let's just wait for Firmbelievers reply...
:rolleyes:
·
Here's one Christian who does not... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Jesus was either God incarnate or simply some nut... calling him a "prophet" does not cut it for me.
Peace be with you.
I can not argue that either.
Who is Jesus? Lord, Liar or Lunatic
Who is Jesus: Claims
In his famous book Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis makes this statement, "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic--on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg--or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.(emphasis: web author)"
Jesus could only have been one of four things: a legend, a liar, a lunatic--or Lord and God. There is so much historical and archeological evidence to support his existence that every reputable historian agrees he was not just a legend. If he were a liar, why would he die for his claim, when he could easily have avoided such a cruel death with a few choice words? And, if he were a lunatic, how did he engage in intelligent debates with his opponents or handle the stress of his betrayal and crucifixion while continuing to show a deep love for his antagonists? He said he was Lord and God. The evidence supports that claim.
So you say that Jesus was either "God incarnate" or "simply some nut", but not a "prophet".Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Besides that the "either/or" suggests doubt about Jesus as Christ, it also rejects with "not a prophet" Judaism and Islam... That leaves only one more religion to reject ! You're almost there !
:rolleyes:
·
It means you either believe Jesus was the son of God not merely a prophet. Sure he was a prophet in a sense, but he was much more than a prophet.
IF YOU BELIEVE Jesus was NOT the son of God then you ARE calling him a liar, a lunatic or a nut.
JUST as anybody that would walk right up to you today and claim they are the Messiah
You would either believe they are the Messiah or you would call them a liar, a lunatic or a nut
So what in that does not make sense to you?
I do say that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Jesus makes many claims that he is God... for instance (Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48) - Jesus forgives sins, and only God can forgive sins... so that is why I say that he either was what he said he was, or was a friggin nut job! :D
That's why I believe to call him a "prophet" makes no sense at all...
Huh?Quote:
Besides that the "either/or" suggests doubt about Jesus as Christ,
No doubt at all on my part... I'm quite certain he was telling the truth about himself, but that's not really what the thread is discussing so we'll save that for another time.
Hehe... you're so cute... I appreciate your comments.Quote:
That leaves only one more religion to reject ! You're almost there !
God bless.
The three choices you list (liar, lunatic, Lord) aren't the only ones. Bringing it back to the topic of this thread, the only record we have of what Jesus said was written by adherents to the new religion that grew up after he was gone. It's at least possible that they embellished his actual claims a little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
As far as we know, Jesus himself didn't write anything down for his disciples. Why do you suppose that is? It certainly wasn't because he didn't know how to write. I suspect it was because he grew up in a book-worshiping culture and saw first-hand all the mischief and foolishness that people engage in using holy books to do battle with one another.
Another choice would be______________?Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
And it would then be possible that they were totally accurate.Quote:
It's at least possible that they embellished his actual claims a little bit.
That's a matter of opinion for sure, but one resolved quite easily with my theology... sola scriptura adherants might have different opinion, but it's again a matter of opinion.Quote:
Why do you suppose that is?
His followers and chroniclers misquoted and embellished what he actually said.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Yes that is a claim that non believers do use. I agree
Yes, I suppose that could be said of any literal work... but my personal study of history leads me to believe the Gospels represent an accurate (if not literally perfect) representation of the Christian faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
And therein lies my problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
That's why I treat the bible as just a book, not the "word of God".
So, to people who allow for that possibility (non-believers in biblical inerrancy), the idea that Jesus was a great prophet and teacher, but not the Son of God, isn't unreasonable at all. The conclusion that it is unreasonable depends completely on accepting the Bible record of Jesus' representation of himself as flawlessly accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
That is your and Christians faith yes BUT ordinary guy is referring to people that say Jesus was ONLY a prophet and not the Son of God. The statement really has nothing to do with Christians it is directed toward people/religions that claim he was not who he claimed to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRC
Yeah the statement means that if Jesus was not exactly what he claims to be then the ones that say he was not are saying he was a liar basically.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
Same as if somebody walked up to you and said they were the Messiah and you did not believe he was the Messiah you would have to call him a liar, lunatic or nut for making such a claim.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:38 PM. |