Allheart, You are so precious, you have such a sweet spirit, and you only want to help and encourage people. It is almost as if you are too good for this world. I know God is so pleased with you. And I too, and appreciative for your kind advice. I will do my best to follow it. As psa 91 states, He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

That secret place where I am cocooned in His Love and Divine Protection. Thank you so much for reminding me that I am in the world but not of the world and that Christ has overcome the world for our sake.

Blessing to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Although many theists seem to see that an an intolerable situation : they want to be free to believe themselves. But not others to be free to believe otherwise ...
Enough of that type on this and other boards !

·

---

You are free to believe what you want Cred but apparently you are the one who is intolerent to THeists because you spend more than half of your life harassing them on religious forums about their beliefs and trying to shove your atheistic beliefs down our throats. :rolleyes:
Get a life

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

But you are free to search the Internet for statements from my hand that supports your suggestion. It will be in vain, as I never changed my approach. The reason why so many theists hate my guts as they know my arguments are sound and beyond denying.
Only you, sassyT, and few other religious blinded still have to learn that ...

·

---

Lol.. Cred Theists don't hate your guts.. We just feel sorry for you. :(
I just hope when I get as old as you are there will be more to my life than harassing people young enough to be my grandchildren on religious online forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iAMfromHuntersBar

Yeah, that's a very good way of putting it!

But surely if I don't want to pick a religion, and I'm just a good person, God would be happy with that too! I mean, he's a clever bloke, he's going to understand my point of view! Ha ha!

---

If it turns out for you that God does exist, just "being good" is not going to get you into heaven. Because your standard of good is not God's standard of good. According to His word you have to accept Jesus Christ as your Advocate because he died so you could be found blameless before the eyes of God.
No one is good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sassyT

lol.. Cred Theists don't hate your guts.. We just feel sorry for you. :(
I just hope when i get as old as you are there will be more to my life than harassing people young enough to be my grandchildren on religious online forums.

---

I don't hate him OR feel sorry for him. He enjoys harassing with his word games
So I enjoy giving him the same hard time back that he dishes out.
He comes off as intolerant being critical of Christians 'supposedly' being intolerant
When that is what he perceives!

[quote=Credendovidis]Although many theists seem to see that an an intolerable situation : they want to be free to believe themselves. But not others to be free to believe otherwise... :confused:
Enough of that type on this and other boards !quote]



Dear Cred,:)
It seems, to my dismay, that I do still have a small mean streak. I will one last time like to point out that no one is perfect, and no one has the right to be critical of others in a mean spirited way especially concerning writing/typing abilities. As gently as I can, I would like to point out that you wrote and I quote “an an” instead of “as an”. You also put ‘they want to be free to believe themselves’ which is not a reasonable statement. You meant, I’m sure, to say, they want to be free to believe in what they perceive to be true, not to believe themselves…which has a completely different meaning.

You also said: Enough of that type on this and other boards ! I assume you meant discussion of beliefs. I do not for sure know what you meant by this, as it is rather unclear.

However, please read the topic of this board, may I kindly inquire how you have the authority to say we cannot discuss Christian beliefs or the lack thereof on this board or any other board? It may be that you do have such authority. It is quite possible that you are the one who did “pony up the cash” for this forum. Is that a true statement? Or have I completely misunderstood your meaning?

I humbly disagree that ‘theists’ as you call them, I assume you mean Christians or others who believe in a God, do not want others to be free to believe otherwise. I said as clearly as I knew how that one is free to believe what they want. It is a God given right to believe or to live in unbelief. I would never say you do not have the right to your own beliefs.:) And I do not intend to argue about who is right and who is wrong. As Needy so aptly pointed out: Everybody believes in something, could be they believe in the comfort of a good hooker or that water tastes good. To Needy, I also believe water tastes good, but in fact, I know by experience that water does taste good.

I do not agree with the other, but if one has to resort to that, then that too, is their business, and privilege.

Cred, I hope you have a wonderful day filled with great joy and wonderful surprises. I just believe today is a special day in which many people will receive at least one of their heart’s desires. I hope you are one of them.

Peace and Love in God’s grace, and mercy.
Tsila

Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
When I talk to Cred I specify setting aside religion, and things like that so that he can not lump it all together but he still manages to mix it all together to 'win'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

You may state whatever you want. I may specify whatever I want. And I am not bound by - or responsible for - your claims. Only for what I state ...

And your conclusions here are ludicrous ... as usual ...

:rolleyes:
·

---

Oh Cred,

Here we go again; another trip around the same old mountain, and just as futile as the last. Moreover, you are being just as hostile, so harsh and brash in your post. How sad it makes me that one has to stoop so low when intelligence fails them.

Anyone reading these two posts would not conclude, the latter was actually a reply to the former.


In fact, I have no idea what you are saying here at all. It makes no sense whatsoever, and has nothing to do with what Nohelp4u was explaining.

May I suggest that you read her post again, as I know English is only your 3rd language, perhaps an interpreter could help you to understand what she is saying.

Peace,

Yeah to keep my sanity I often have to remind myself that things DO get lost in translation with Cred0!! :rolleyes:

Sassy,

There is *no proof* that a supernatural world exists, therefore it is *YOUR OPINION* that a supernatural exists. That is why religion is called belief/faith... because there is no proof, it is just that someone has *chosen to believe*. They choose because they enjoy believing in a supernatural or fear reality, not because there is a supernatural.

If someone does not believe in salvation, that does not make it untrue. Just as believing in salvation does not make it true. And if neither can be proven then how is one to decide what to believe?



Definition: Believe

Transitive verb -·lieved′, -·liev′·ing

1. to take as true, real, etc.
2. to have confidence in a statement or promise of (another person)
3. to suppose or think

Intransitive verb

1. to have trust or confidence (in) as being true, real, good, etc.
2. to have religious faith
3. to suppose or think

A collection of knowledge we have obtained in our lives. Or lack thereof. Perhaps hardships that have made us bitter, in some cases hardened out hearts or in others drove us to call out to a Higher Being. Could it be from experience as the Word says,


1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:


5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


Having for 30 some years believed the Word of God, and put it to the test, standing firm and waiting patiently and seeing the desired results. This of course does not prove to others that it works, but does to the certain individual.


So then, for some it may be that experience…if one has had the experience of being burned then one has faith that if they touch the stove again they will be burned again.



That is belief/faith from experience.



If one prays a prayer that seem impossible, and stands firm, patiently waiting, after due time that prayer becomes a reality, then one by faith believes a second prayer will also be answered.


That is belief/faith from experience.



If one is in a situation where there seems to be no way out and prays to God for help and stands firm, waiting patiently, and then suddenly there is a way out, this one would believe by experience that a second cry for help, or prayer would also be answered.


That is belief/faith from experience.



Science can neither prove nor disprove God, because God created science and gave men the knowledge of it. Can I prove that statement? Of course not! Can anyone disprove it, no!


My question should have been why do you have faith in God, or why do you believe there is no God? Examples requested not irrationalities.



Peace and love,








.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsila1777

Allheart, You are so precious, you have such a sweet spirit, and you only want to help and encourage people. It is almost as if you are too good for this world. I know God is so pleased with you. And I too, and appreciative for your kind advice. I will do my best to follow it. As psa 91 states, He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

That secret place where I am cocooned in His Love and Divine Protection. Thank you so much for reminding me that I am in the world but not of the world and that Christ has overcome the world for our sake.

Blessing to you.

---

Tsila - Thank you so much for the kind words. I truly cherish them. And thank you for the hug, because that's exactly what your words felt to me, and I send a huge loving hug right back.

Things of this world can be so very hard, and I am nowhere near perfect, so very far from it, but we have each other always, to love, encourage, and to be able to see the good, in things, and in all people, even if they think and feel differently then us.

Many blessings and hugs to you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allheart

Tsila - Thank you so much for the kind words. I truly cherish them. And thank you for the hug, because that's exactly what your words felt to me, and I send a huge loving hug right back.

Things of this world can be so very hard, and I am nowhere near perfect, so very far from it, but we have each other always, to love, encourage, and to be able to see the good, in things, and in all people, even if they think and feel differently then us.

Many blessings and hugs to you!

---

Dear Allheart,

There could not be a more appropriate name for you. I envision you just as your icon. I have no idea what you look like in person, but I have seen your spirit and it is beautiful, sweet and kind.

You have been an example to me on these boards. There is no point trying to argue something that cannot be proven. And no point in taking things personally that others say. I have also come to realize that being polite and considerate even in the face of impolite remarks is better than lowering myself to their standards.

We are called to a higher standard, and to show the Love of God, and His gentleness, and goodness. These things you do so well. And by doing so, have inspired me to attain to that higher standard that God requires of us.

Not that we present ourselves as better than others, but as followers of Christ, who is the Expressed Image of God, we should conduct ourselves in love and peace and joy, so as to be pleasing to Him, and examples to others.

God’s blessing upon you, may you receive your heart’s desire today. (( Allheart )) big hug.

If you believe that *salvation* involves living after you die, then it is your belief/faith, it is not fact-there is no proof that there is a supernatural world.

Many lost people are *saved from themselves* by means other than *believing* in supernatural entities. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sassyT

If it turns out for you that God does exist, just "being good" is not going to get you into heaven. Because your standard of good is not God's standard of good. According to His word you have to accept Jesus Christ as your Advocate because he died so you could be found blameless before the eyes of God.
No one is good.

---

Yeah, but what happpens if it turns out that there is a God, but the stuff you believe in is all wrong, and in fact all He wanted was for people to go out and have a good time and live their lives to their full potential. Then my beer-swilling, fun-loving God's standards are WAY different to yours and it'll be you that won't be going to heaven! Ha ha!

And saying "No one is good" is just ridiculous. No-one is perfect, but there are plenty of good people!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Choux

If you believe that *salvation* involves living after you die, then it is your belief/faith, it is not fact-there is no proof that there is a supernatural world.

Many lost people are *saved from themselves* by means other than *believing* in supernatural entities. :)

---

Of course, it is by faith, that it might be by grace, the gift of God. I do believe salvation includes eternal life, and not just after, I 'die', but here and now. He gave us eternal life; the newborn spirit will never die. How many times have I said it cannot be proven one way or the other?

To me it is a fact; to you it is not because you have no proof. If I had proof, then I would not need faith and it is impossible to please God without faith. So, I am glad I cannot prove it to you, because I would rather please God who loved me before there was time and knew my name.

[QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iAMfromHuntersBar

Yeah, but what happpens if it turns out that there is a God, but the stuff you believe in is all wrong, and in fact all He wanted was for people to go out and have a good time and live their lives to their full potential. Then my beer-swilling, fun-loving God's standards are WAY different to yours and it'll be you that won't be going to heaven! Ha ha!

---

Actually I would be guilty as charged because I been there done that, so you would see you in heaven... lol :D

Quote:

---

And saying "No one is good" is just ridiculous. No-one is perfect, but there are plenty of good people!

---

It depends on what your standard of "Good" is. Yours is obviously not very high.

All I am saying is you talk about what you *believe*---therefore, it is not fact or proven true. You have to agree with that or risk being intellectually dishonest. Religion is faith/belief.
**By definition**, it is not fact or proven. You *believe*- it is your opinion-not fact, not proven, not true. You *believe* it is true.

We will have to agree to disagree. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Choux

All I am saying is you talk about what you *believe*---therefore, it is not fact or proven true. You have to agree with that or risk being intellectually dishonest. Religion is faith/belief.
**By definition**, it is not fact or proven. You *believe*- it is your opinion-not fact, not proven, not true. You *believe* it is true.

We will have to agree to disagree. :)

---

Nobody has been arguing that except the non believers who keep dwelling on it.
We got the point but the conversation keeps getting stuck right there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N0help4u

Nobody has been arguing that except the non believers who keep dwelling on it.
We got the point but the conversation keeps getting stuck right there.

---

I agree... lol its becoming ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iAMfromHuntersBar

Yeah, but what happpens if it turns out that there is a God ....

---

Pascals Wager has already for many years been proved to be logically invalid...

:rolleyes:

·

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N0help4u

Nobody has been arguing that except the non believers who keep dwelling on it. We got the point but the conversation keeps getting stuck right there.

---

The non-theists have a valid point, but the theists don't want to accept the reality of that...

:rolleyes:

·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Nobody has been arguing that except the non believers who keep dwelling on it. We got the point but the conversation keeps getting stuck right there.

Cred said: The non-theists have a valid point, but the theists don't want to accept the reality of that...

Dear Cred, she just did! Did you bother to read her post? It sure doesn't seem so from your response.

Can we not move on?

I was told you were intelligent... prove that if you can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sassyT

The reason why you say the supernatural can not be proven is because you are looking for NATURAL Scientific evidence for the SUPER NATURAL.. which does not make any sense.
The supernatural happens every day but it can not be scientifically proven because science is the study of NATURAL phenomenon so it is impossible to prove the supernatural by scientific means. There is a supernatural spiritual relm that exists and i know it does because my mom's sister used be a witch. Supernatural things happen all the time but skeptics like you always try to find a natural explanation for it. So just because in your Opinion you dont think the supernatural exists.. does not mean you are right because there is atleast 5 billion people in the world who will disagree with you.

---

Good post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I wouldn't say that - maybe one specific one. The 'non-believers' don't go around telling your living your life the wrong way because you aren't like them. There no need to attempt to convert people. Do atheists go door-to-door like the mormons do? How about if both sides stop preaching?

---

No, atheists go to court and get prayer taken out of all schools because someone was offended, and to prevent thousands from saying the pledge because one person was offended. They demand that one not say 'in Jesus Name' when praying in public, because someone may be offended. They have done so many things but my gosh, to go to someone's door and talk to them about God over a nice cup of coffee? How dare those mormons!:eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsila1777

No, atheists go to court and get prayer taken out of all schools because someone was offended

---

Not so. Because prayer does not belong in schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsila1777

They demand that one not say 'in Jesus Name' when praying in public, because someone may be offended.

---

Not so. Because prayer is a personal activity, a personal silent time of reflection. Churches are for religious activities.

:rolleyes:

·

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Not so. Because prayer does not belong in schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.


Not so. Because prayer is a personal activity, a personal silent time of reflection. Churches are for religious activities.

:rolleyes:

---

How is it not true??
If you want to be factually correct
Your statements should be

That's right because Because prayer does not belong in schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.


That's right because prayer is a personal activity, a personal silent time of reflection. Churches are for religious activities.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N0help4u

If you want to be factually correct ...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsila1777

No, atheists go to court and get prayer taken out of all schools because someone was offended.

---

Atheists do not go to Court because they are offended by prayer.
They go to Court because prayer does not belong in schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.

So my statement was correct...

Go to bed, have some sleep...

:rolleyes:

·

Sapph,

Each godbeliever has to**acknowledge** the simple point that what they say about their religion is their *BELIEF/FAITH*, and not fact or proven... or we can't go forward in any discussion.

We can't go forward until that is done.

Neither can we go forward as long as Atheists continue to deny that what they have is a BELIEF. Looks like stalemate to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Neither can we go forward as long as Atheists continue to deny that what they have is a BELIEF. Looks like stalemate to me.

---

Exactly what I was trying to get across in that one post I did on objective/subjective belief

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Not so. Because prayer does not belong in schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.


Not so. Because prayer is a personal activity, a personal silent time of reflection. Churches are for religious activities.

:rolleyes:

·

---

Not so, because back in the good old days when this country was young and people had morals, schools taught children to read using the Bible! When I was in school, we always said the pledge to the flag, and had prayer time.

Separation of government and religion was intended to keep the government from interfering with religions, not to kick God out of our schools, and public places. This country was founded on freedom of religion.





How could displaying the Ten Commandments in schools and other places offend anyone? If they do not like it, they do not have to look at it. Just like those of us who do not like to look at certain types of people making out in public, and having their parades. :eek: We just turn our heads. Which is not really what we should be doing, we should be fighting for our rights.




It is a fact that since they have done that, there has been much more violence in the schools. That offends me, but I suppose that does not count to the non-believers. They would rather have guns, knives and bombs in schools than prayer and the Ten Commandments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Choux

Sapph,

Each godbeliever has to**acknowledge** the simple point that what they say about their religion is their *BELIEF/FAITH*, and not fact or proven....or we can't go forward in any discussion.

We can't go forward until that is done.

---

Dear,

That has been done so many times that it is now ridiculous that people still insist that we should do that. How many times would be enough? 100? 200? How many times must we say this is our belief, this is our faith. How many?

Why do non-believers not have to write this is my 'non-belief'? Why should only believers have to clarify their statements and non-believers do not? Your beliefs are not facts either and they have not been proven. Why the double standard? Has anyone every insisted that non-believers should begin every sentence with 'this is my non-belief…?' If we have to begin each sentence with I believe, then non-believers should have to begin every sentence with this is my non-belief. Would that not be fair?


Your non-belief is YOUR BELIEF! :rolleyes: You believe there is no God. That is your belief. So let us go on with each stating this is my belief... believers and non-believers. Would that make it possible for us to go forward?


It by faith through grace that we are saved. It is a gift from God. However, as I have pointed out several times, to no avail, I am not a religious person. I do not subscribe to any religion. I believe in relationship with God, as do many thousands of other people.

There are many religions, and some call themselves Christians. However, not all Christians are in a structured religion.

But I believe there is a God Who sent His Son to die for my sins. It is my belief that He was raised for my justification. I believe that He even now lives to make intercession for me. I believe someday He will return for His people and I believe that after the Church is removed from the earth, it is my belief that the wrath of God will be poured out on non-believers. This is what But I believe there is a God Who sent His Son to die for my sins. It is my belief that He was raised for my justification. I believe that He even now lives to make intercession for me. I believe someday He will return for His people and I believe that after the Church is removed from the earth, it is my belief that the wrath of God will be poured out on non-believers. This is what I believe. My belief is based on the Word of God by faith in His Word, and I believe that the Word of God is true, I believe because I have faith in God.

Is this enough, I hope so because that's all you get from me.
. My belief is based on the Word of God by faith in His Word, and [bbcode][/bbcode] that the Word of God is true, [bbcode][/bbcode] because I have faith in God.

Is this enough, I hope so because that's all you get from me.

Like I say if you come on religion boards or Christian boards you should accept that the board is about Belief and faith not fact, even when people state their belief as fact it should be assumed that it is belief so why does I believe that have to be preceded by a statement of belief?
The board is clearly listed religion which clearly means BELIEF
I have said that before and I will continue to say it. Nobody is forcing atheists to come to the Christian board, the Religion board or any board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
Neither can we go forward as long as Atheists continue to deny that what they have is a BELIEF. Looks like stalemate to me.

Quote by nohelp4u: Exactly what I was trying to get across in that one post I did on objective/subjective belief __________________

Why is it so hard for them to understand that if they say 'I do not believe in God, they are actually saying I believe God does not exist.' That is their belief and It is not a fact, it has not been proven, and they cannot prove it, but they state it as if it were as fact.

However, when we state what we believe they create this double standard that Each godbeliever has to**acknowledge** the simple point that what they say about their religion is their *BELIEF/FAITH*, and not fact or proven..


It just goes to show how they think. Which is why they believe there is no God, but do not understand that they cannot state it as a fact because it has not been proven. So they should have to **acknowledge** the simple point that what they say about their lack of religion is their *BELIEF/FAITH*, and not fact or proven..

peace and love,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N0help4u

Like I say if you come on religion boards or Christian boards you should accept that the board is about Belief and faith not fact, even when people state their belief as fact it should be assumed that it is belief so why does I believe that have to be preceded by a statement of belief?
The board is clearly listed religion which clearly means BELIEF
I have said that before and I will continue to say it. Nobody is forcing atheists to come to the Christian board, the Religion board or any board.

---

I know they have a right to post here, but why do they come to a Christian board and then try to tell us how we should share our beliefs with each other? Is there not an atheist's board where they can share their beliefs with each other? Why don't all the atheists start a new board and they can just agree with each other all night long and there will be no stalemates.

Repeating myself for Cred’s sake, I know you do have a right to post here…but I wonder why you do. Is it that you are indeed looking for a reason to believe in God? Do you secretly want to be convinced that God is and that He rewards those that diligently seek Him?

That is the only reason that makes sense to me. Either that, or you just like to annoy Christians who are trying to have a pleasant conversation and share our faith, beliefs and understandings of God’s Word and His Son’s work in our lives. Why would you want to do that? Since you cannot prove what you believe, and your belief is not a fact.

Peace upon every soul who reads and understands; you must be born again to enter the kingdom of God and receive eternal life.

Please understand this, I refuse to submit to your rules of how I express my Christian beliefs on this religious board unless you conform to the same rules. If you do not like it, then you will just have to deal with it.:)

Yeah I don't mind them posting on the boards but as you say the constant pointing out
"THAT is what YOU BELIEVE" IS over done and ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Atheists do not go to Court because they are offended by prayer.
They go to Court because prayer does not belong in schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.

So my statement was correct ...

Go to bed, have some sleep ...

:rolleyes:

·

---

Cred,
You are supposed to say "I believe' or "that's my belief' or "in my opinion' before you make statements that like.

Tsila - A nice big hug for you sweetheart.

We believe in our faith - and we believe it to be true - That God loves all of us, and that is a Divine Truth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsila1777

Cred, You are supposed to say "I believe' or "that's my belief' or "in my opinion' before you make statements that like.

---

I stated

Quote:

---

Atheists do not go to Court because they are offended by prayer.
They go to Court because prayer does not belong in schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.
So my statement was correct ...

---

Why should I say "I believe"? Atheists do not go to Court because they are offended by your prayer. Why would they?
Atheists go to Court because theist prayer does not belong in public schools, other than in personal silent reflection. Schools are to teach people. Churches are for religious activities.
There is no belief involved in what I stated. Just logic and reality.
So my statement was correct...

-

At the other hand : if you state "God tells me to do ...." than you make a religious CLAIM, and you should state "I believe" in front of that.


:rolleyes:

·

Why should I say "I believe"? Atheists do not go to Court because they are offended by your prayer. Why would they?
You believe that they do not go to court because they are offended, but in the USA it is common practice for people to go to court over what they are offended by

Why should they?
Why do a lot of people do the things they do that doesn't make sense?