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Originally Posted by inthebox

That is why you post and ask questions on religious threads? ;)

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Forgive me for intruding, lobrobster...

Participating in religious discussions and asking questions has nothing to do with anger and or hatred. It has to do with curiosity and the sharing of ideas. Sure, I'm speaking for myself here, but I hold no ill-will toward theists in general (though I'm sure some of you who think you know me will disagree. Well, one person in particular, really.). I think the idea of religion and faith is fascinating, and I'm not afraid to admit I've learned a lot on these boards. It hasn't changed my mind about the existence of god, but at least I have a better understanding of things. Isn't that part of the goal? If we understand and respect where the other is coming from, we can get along. We don't have to agree to have a civil discussion.

That's not to say some threads haven't been started with malice and the intent to cause a fight, or that some threads have developed into a fight, but when discussing things which people feel passionately about, that's bound to happen. It happens on the politics board all the time; you don't think those who participate in the more Republican topics but are Democrats "hate" or are "angry" at the Republicans, and that's the only reason they are there... do you?

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Originally Posted by michealb

De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference. A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world. The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion. From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..

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Now that is insightful More than likely DeMaria was angry at God or he lying outright about being an Atheist. Once an Atheist it is hard to go back to supersitions

workerbee

Another example of the pitiful way in which the atheists on this board use logical fallacies to disrupt and avoid engaging the argument.

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Originally Posted by michealb

De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference.

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Probably both. The fact is, I was as good at defending my atheist beliefs then as I am at defending my Catholic beliefs today.

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A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world.

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But that is beside the point isn't it? This thread is about "taking the Bible literally". Worker bee made the comment that an atheist would not become a Christian. I only offered my example as proof he is wrong.

When I start a thread as to my reasons for formerly being an atheist, I'll be glad to explain my entire life story. Right now however, I see this emphasis on me as a tactic to change the subject in a thread in which you and your confreres have been proven wrong.

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The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion.

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Again, start a thread on how many people go back to religion after atheism and provide actual factuall data instead of simple opinions based on nothing else but wishful thinking and I'll be glad to participate.

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From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..

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This may come as a shock to you, but just because you think it, doesn't make it so.

Anyway, unless you want me to psycho analyze you, I suggest you GET OFF MY BACK!

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by workerbee

Now that is insightful More than likely DeMaria was angry at God or he lying outright about being an Atheist. Once an Atheist it is hard to go back to supersitions

workerbee

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So, you are now calling me a liar. And you are characterizing my beliefs as superstitions.
Thanks for providing more proof that the atheists on this board are simply here to deride, attack and insult Christians and their beliefs, It really shows the level of your intellect.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Forgive me for intruding, lobrobster....

Participating in religious discussions and asking questions has nothing to do with anger and or hatred. It has to do with curiosity and the sharing of ideas. Sure, I'm speaking for myself here, but I hold no ill-will toward theists in general (though I'm sure some of you who think you know me will disagree. Well, one person in particular, really.). I think the idea of religion and faith is fascinating, and I'm not afraid to admit I've learned a lot on these boards. It hasn't changed my mind about the existence of god, but at least I have a better understanding of things. Isn't that part of the goal? If we understand and respect where the other is coming from, we can get along. We don't have to agree to have a civil discussion.

That's not to say some threads haven't been started with malice and the intent to cause a fight, or that some threads have developed into a fight, but when discussing things which people feel passionately about, that's bound to happen. It happens on the politics board all the time; you don't think those who participate in the more Republican topics but are Democrats "hate" or are "angry" at the Republicans, and that's the only reason they are there... do you?

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I agree Jillian. Good post.

Sincerely,

De Maria

You are right Demaria, I did not mean to call you a liar, I knew a Christian in he past that was not an atheist butwere mad at god and admitted as much. It was unfair of me.
Won't happen again

workerbee

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Originally Posted by workerbee

You are right Demaria, i did not mean to call you a liar, I knew a Christian in he past that was not an athiest butwere mad at god and admitted as much. it was unfair of me.
Won't happen again

workerbee

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Apology accepted.

Ahhh don't all God based discussions end with the same argument.

My good friend Workerbee back for more, good on you:)

Firstly, there are sooo many erroneous statements in this thread it would take too long to list them.

The argument remains the same for these topics, if you don't believe inGod you do not understand what is being said. All those who do not believe make sense to each other while appear foolish to those who do believe and vice versa.

I do not appreciate some on this thread that make statements regarding the Bible as non-sensical (to them it may very well appear). I, myself, do not take the Bible literally word for word.

Consider if you will Judgement Day. It is narrated in a way that a literal interpretation would see chariots out of the sky accompanied by flames and red skies, or the story of Jesus returning from the dead to save us from sin and reunite us with God. The literal interpretation is that Jesus, in a physical form will make a grand entrance for all to see on Judegemnt Day (which, if taken literally would be the end of the world in which many have tried to calculate the exact date of such an event). To some beleivers this makes sense, to some non-beleivers it is a tall tale to be sure.

Other interpretations of the same story would be a non-literal interpretation. I'll have a go as best I can. To some, myself included, the end of the world is the day I die, judgement day is the day I die, Jesus returning to the world is Jesus returning to MY life. I believe you can look at it in a spiritual sense rather than a literal one that makes more sense to those who are interested enough to look for deeper meaning within the Bible, obviously those who do not believe would not have the urge to look deeper would they?

As for the rest of the arguments, just because you read a passage and think it silly does not make it so,in a different light it would probably make more sense to you than you might even imagine. Like the poster that suggests Noah's Ark is more akin to a children's book than reality (the poster didn't actually use those words but still). It's a comment out of basic understanding of words written mixed with very limited view on spirituality,one may say close-minded foolishness if one were so bold.

Finally, Workerbee, you seem the same as when we last conversed on the subject. Actually, your comments before were a lot moreconvincing than now, whichis not saying all that much to be quite honest. I can assure you the only superstitions that exist in the Bible are the ones you yourself created.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Forgive me for intruding, lobrobster....

Participating in religious discussions and asking questions has nothing to do with anger and or hatred. It has to do with curiosity and the sharing of ideas. Sure, I'm speaking for myself here, but I hold no ill-will toward theists in general (though I'm sure some of you who think you know me will disagree. Well, one person in particular, really.). I think the idea of religion and faith is fascinating, and I'm not afraid to admit I've learned a lot on these boards. It hasn't changed my mind about the existence of god, but at least I have a better understanding of things. Isn't that part of the goal? If we understand and respect where the other is coming from, we can get along. We don't have to agree to have a civil discussion.

That's not to say some threads haven't been started with malice and the intent to cause a fight, or that some threads have developed into a fight, but when discussing things which people feel passionately about, that's bound to happen. It happens on the politics board all the time; you don't think those who participate in the more Republican topics but are Democrats "hate" or are "angry" at the Republicans, and that's the only reason they are there... do you?

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You spoke for me better than I could have! :)

I would only add that not everyone (atheist or Christian) comes here simply to espouse their beliefs. Some have legitimate questions about religious questions, such as 'what is the real evidence for evolution?', or 'why can't the earth be only 6000 years old?', etc.

Other questions like, 'How can I better my relationship with God?', I wouldn't dream of trying to answer myself and leave it to other Christians. De Maria actually gave a beautiful answer to a friend of mine who had a question about her faith. I never could have helped her, or provided such an eloquent answer. But there are other questions that people can help with regardless of their religious beliefs.

BMI. I had a headache this morning and now I know why, hope you are feeling well. It's good you don't take the Bible literally, that at least we agree on. There are so many religions to pick and chose from, for me that is truth that all religions are BS

workerbee

Sorry about your headache workerbee, was the previous post too long? Was the information in it not making iteasy to follow? Do you take a long time to read? Perhaps your computer monitor is too bright:)

Might I ask you to explain to me what point there is in posting questions about religion yet not considering what is told to you? I find it fascinating that you and some other non-beleivers are so interested in these conversations yet you have already made up your mind before you ask your question. Whay concern yourself(s) with religious discussion id it is all B.S??

I suspect every non-beleiver who does participate wishes to hear the other side, maybe to gain insight, a quick lesson in spirituality? I doubt many beleivers would join a discussion asking about the atheist way of life, yet a question about Jesus pops up (actually it is posted by you) and everyone comes to take a gander.

Maybe you are trying to find what the proponents of a God speak of, otherwise there has to be a very good explanation because I don't see you often asking questions of lawnmowers just as you don't see me asking a non-beleiver questions about their way of life.

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Originally Posted by workerbee

BMI. i had a headache this morning and now i know why, hope you are feeling well. it's good you don't take the Bible literally, that at least we agree on. there are so many religions to pick and chose from, for me that is truth that all religions are BS

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All religions are BS?

Again showing your intellect. Your messages have devolved from simulating reasoned arguments to simply being insulting.

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Originally Posted by BMI

I doubt many beleivers would join a discussion asking about the atheist way of life,

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This thread...

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/spirit...believe+how%3F

Would disagree with you...

And you even participated in it!

The bible is a piece of literary work open to interpretation and highly subjective. Each one of us could read a section of the bible and get something different out of it based on our real world experiences. I find the statement "the bible says..." to be the biggest joke around. What "the bible says" to you might be different then what it says to me.

I am not talking about the 10 commandments... that is different... Not much interpretation in Thou Shall not Steal.

Hi Jillean, thanks for pointing that out. However, I did not say all, I said not many. Also, my participation in that forum was not in response to the original question but rather to the questions raised from the thread.

The OP on this thread includes her/his opinion in her actual question. What's the point? Tell me about Jesus but I don't believe it anyway.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

All religions are BS?

Again showing your intellect. Your messages have devolved from simulating reasoned arguments to simply being insulting.

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Serious question... What would YOU call all the other religions that are not your own? If not BS, then wouldn't you at least say (perhaps in a more genteel way), that they are unsubstantiated and untrue?

I am not trying to be argumentative or rude in any way, but I never understood how someone of a particular faith can take such exception to those who are skeptical of all faiths. You know as much as anyone, what it's like not to believe in a particular faith.

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

Serious question... What would YOU call all the other religions that are not your own?

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That depends on which religion you are talking about. I have different opinions about different religions and I think some of them are closer to the truth than others. But I think most of them have some truth. I can't think of any that have none at all, although I suppose there may exist some.

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If not BS,

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The only time I would say that is in response to anyone insulting my faith.

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then wouldn't you at least say (perhaps in a more genteel way), that they are unsubstantiated and untrue?

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No. Some religions are very close to the truth. As you know, I'm Catholic. Many of the Eastern Orthodox faiths are very close to the Catholic faith. Lacking only small details to teach the same thing.

Whereas, the Protestant faiths are all based on the Bible. Even though I believe some of their interpretations are in error, I can respect them for their obvious faith in Christ.

The Muslims I also respect for their obvious faith in God.

I have a great deal of respect for Hinduism and the Eastern philosophies. The wisdom they expound is frequently profound.

As far as atheists are concerned, since I was once an atheist, I can understand the logic whereby one arrives at the conclusion that God does not exist. However, I now believe my logic then was in error.

Therefore, I think I have too much wood in my eye to belittle atheists. The only reason that I find myself doing so on this forum is because so many atheists on this forum act as though its open season on Christians.

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I am not trying to be argumentative or rude in any way,

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No problem. Good question.

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but I never understood how someone of a particular faith can take such exception to those who are skeptical of all faiths.

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Probably just a lack of respect for humanity in general. If you study Catholicism, you'll see that the Church teaches respect for people of all faiths. That doesn't mean we are taught that they are all correct. For some reason, many people confuse respect with acquiescence. That just means that everybody has the God given freedom to follow their conscience.

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You know as much as anyone, what it's like not to believe in a particular faith.

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I hope I've explained myself thoroughly above. If I've missed anything, ask me again.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by BMI

Hi Jillean, thanks for pointing that out. However, I did not say all, I said not many. Also, my participation in that forum was not in response to the original question but rather to the questions raised from the thread.

The OP on this thread includes her/his opinion in her actual question. Whats the point? Tell me about Jesus but I don't beleive it anyway.

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If you look through that thread, you'll find many people of faith participated. It ended up being shut down because of a person of faith and a person of no faith, actually. Your reason for participating in that thread doesn't really matter; you participated. But, while we're on it... your first post contained your thoughts as to why a person is an atheist.

Moving on... I too, questioned the purpose of this thread being started; see my post #26 on page three. But the actual question is, "Why do Christians take the bible so literal?" It's not, "Tell me about Jesus" or "Tell me about your religion", it's "Tell me why you hold this book to be the literal truth?" Can't you tell someone about your beliefs without expecting them to accept them? I'm not saying this thread has been full of respect for other's opinions, but we are all entitled to our opinions. It is, after all, an interesting question as to why people take the bible as an absolute literal piece of work, since not all Christians do the same.

Bmi, thanks for your concern, at least you have not lost any scarcasm, very good. What's the point of going into detail you have made up yourmind. I think ignorance and religion go hand in hand , you know like those natives, how they believe in there silly supersitions\much like Christianity. Same thing as far as I am concerned. If you don'ttake the Bible literally you can pick parts you like and discard the rest. Besides I said all I have too.
DeMaria, you spend way too much time being insulted when none was intended. If you want to stay on this forum you might consider growing a thicker skin.

Anyway that's what I think

I'm going to take you re-reading my posts as a compliment, intended or not:P

I participated in defence and my thoughts on atheism are different than writing why atheism is so stupid, like some include in their posts. Re-read workerbee's original question, its much more causing a stir than simply asking a question. I doubt many ask a question hoping for a sincere, informative answer when written like that, like he/she knows the answer beforehand. I am also not intending to make others believe what I do but rather defending my position.

You cannot go around saying you think this is all B.S and be rude about it OR post "facts" that are not factual either. If these "opinions" were posted in another forum they would be met with all kinds of opposition. I don't see the difference here when people make comments that are of this nature.



In response to opinion's. There is a line between your opinions and being offensive to someone's religion. Depicting God as a cartoon with a thunder bolt is not appropriate and very offensive.

Thanks workerbee! I do so enjoy speaking with you.

By your measuring stick not mine You are so insecure aren't you? I asked a question which you answered saying that you do not take the Bible literally. I got it. You don't have to answer again. Thanks

You crazy angry Christians.

workerbee

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Originally Posted by BMI

I am also not intending to make others believe what I do but rather defending my position.

You cannot go around saying you think this is all B.S and be rude about it OR post "facts" that are not factual either. If these "opinions" were posted in another forum they would be met with all kinds of opposition. I don't see the difference here when people make comments that are of this nature.

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Unfortunately I detect a double standard. Remember this post you made:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/spirit...tml#post560628

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If Karma thinks that you can be truly happy without God, than that of course is incorrect, and if offends than so be it.

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Now c'mon now. I state that one, such as myself, can be happy without a god and you try to state that that is fact that one cannot then we have a problem.

What problem?? Define what happiness is comparable with what I consider it to be. The Bible itself would back the statement made, perhaps you are happy with no belief in God, maybe your not as happy as those that do.

I believe you cannot be truly happy without God, I'm not saying you're an idiot, I'm not making fun of your beleifs, I'm not even saying your not happy. My point is that some here actually try to insult and belittle a belief in God is all. If you sayto me you can only be trully happy not believing in God I would not be offended in the least. If, however, you say that beleifin God is for the weak, then I may take issue with it.

As for the offend comment, perhaps I did not like you at the time:)

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Originally Posted by De Maria

But I think most of them have some truth. I can't think of any that have none at all, although I suppose there may exist some.

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Are you suggesting there is more than 1 path to salvation? Can Muslims and other religions get to heaven without accepting Christ as their Savior?

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Originally Posted by BMI

I'm going to take you re-reading my posts as a compliment, intended or not:P

I participated in defence and my thoughts on atheism are different than writing why atheism is so stupid, like some include in their posts. Re-read workerbee's original question, its much more causing a stir than simply asking a question. I doubt many ask a question hoping for a sincere, informative answer when written like that, like he/she knows the answer beforehand. I am also not intending to make others believe what I do but rather defending my position.

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I agree; there is a difference between posting a question with the intent to seek answers/opinions, and posting a question to start a flame war (again, see my post on page three of this thread).

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You cannot go around saying you think this is all B.S and be rude about it OR post "facts" that are not factual either. If these "opinions" were posted in another forum they would be met with all kinds of opposition. I don't see the difference here when people make comments that are of this nature.

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True, but sometimes we all mis-speak (mis-type?), or our words are read in a way which was not intended. It's part of the problem with communication through written word; it's difficult to pick up on meanings, sarcasm, etc, whereas is actual conversation you have body language to cue you into the speaker's feelings. The other problem (as demonstrated with your communication with NK) is that what some perceive as rude is not perceived as rude by others. You think there's nothing rude about saying one can't be truly happy without god; I, for one, think that's a very rude thing to say. It's akin to saying you can't be smart if you believe in god. You don't have to defend yourself, but to me, that's rude.

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In response to opinion's. There is a line between your opinions and being offensive to someone's religion. Depicting God as a cartoon with a thunder bolt is not appropriate and very offensive.

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Again, the example of your communication with NK. And depictions of god as a cartoon character are, believe it or not, seen as humorous to some (even some believers). We have no way of knowing what may or may not offend someone on this site (within reason, of course). But you know, there is something to the saying that if you are looking to be offended, you will find a way to be offended.

Well written Jillian. Even with the above I do believe that the OP was not operating along the fine line between offensive and non.

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Originally Posted by BMI

Well written Jillian. Even with the above I do beleive that the OP was not operating along the fine line between offensive and non.

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If only I could give you a greenie... :D

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Originally Posted by workerbee

Bmi, thanks for your concern, at least you have not lost any scarcasm, very good. What's the point of going into detail you have made up yourmind. I think ignorance and religion go hand in hand , you knwo like those natives, how they believe in there silly supersitions\much like Christianity. Same thing as far as I am concerned. If you don'ttake the Bible literally you can pick parts you like and discard the rest. Besides i said all i have too.
DeMaria, you spend way too much time being insulted when none was intended. If you want to stay on this forum you might consider growing a thicker skin.

Anyway that's what i think

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Don't mind me. If that's the new rule I can adjust. Just remember that you said it. When I tell you why your thoughts are BS, don't start crying foul.

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Originally Posted by BMI

Well written Jillian. ...

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Ditto!

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

Are you suggesting there is more than 1 path to salvation? Can Muslims and other religions get to heaven without accepting Christ as their Savior?

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Lob, you and I already discussed this in "For believers only" message #76, 80, 81 and 84.
Here's a link:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...-143702-9.html

If you still have questions, start another thread. This thread is about taking the Bible literally. I believe everyone else is trying to get back to the subject at hand.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Lob, you and I already discussed this in "For believers only" message #76, 80, 81 and 84.
Here's a link:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...-143702-9.html

If you still have questions, start another thread. This thread is about taking the Bible literally. I believe everyone else is trying to get back to the subject at hand.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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No need to re-hash all that. My point was that you yourself know what it means to question certain truths about other people's religion. So it shouldn't come as such a shock to you when someone questions the truth about ALL religions. I'll agree that using terms like 'BS' isn't the most tactful form of expression. But it basically just means they don't buy into any of them, in a similar way that you don't buy into Hinduism.

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Originally Posted by workerbee

Why do Christians take the Bible so literal? Some parts are absolutely absurd.

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First of all : the percentage of people who take the Bible literal is rather low.
Most Christians see the Bible as a religious guide to life.

If you during your youth have been brainwashed into Christianity, and when there is somewhere in your brain all kinds of religious doubt gnawing around, you can do two things :
1 - Open up your mind, and ask yourself if what you believe is in any way realistic and can be based on reality. If the answer is no, become a non-believer or deist.
2 - Those who fear the thorn of "God", and/or the reaction by the (religious) people around them tend to force themselves into strict religious rules, one of which is taking the Bible literal in the hope that this will stop their queries.
In this second group religion seems mainly based on fear, not on love of and gratitude for the deity.

;)

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

No need to re-hash all that. My point was that you yourself know what it means to question certain truths about other people's religion. So it shouldn't come as such a shock to you when someone questions the truth about ALL religions. I'll agree that using terms like 'BS' isn't the most tactful form of expression. But it basically just means they don't buy into any of them, in a similar way that you don't buy into Hinduism.

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In other words, you are justifying rude language and insults. Bumblebee (or whatever his name is) has done the same. If that is the way this forum will go, I foresee that things are going to get very distasteful.

I'd rather have polite discussions. But let me know when you want me to describe your beliefs as BS. I'm ready, willing and able.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

In other words, you are justifying rude language and insults. Bumblebee (or whatever his name is) has done the same. If that is the way this forum will go, I foresee that things are going to get very distasteful.

I'd rather have polite discussions. But let me know when you want me to describe your beliefs as BS. I'm ready, willing and able.

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I've already said that use of the term BS was not tactful and am not sure I would have used it myself. And by the way... If you ever feel that a belief I hold is BS, feel free to say so (but please be sure to point out exactly what you think is false about it). I won't take offense, I promise. Being able to justify my beliefs is important to me. If ever I can't, I will most likely concede. I see no shame in that.

Thread closed, it is ending up as most, with attacks on religious beliefs by those with none, name calling and attempts to hijack the thread