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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I don't agree. I get along just fine with atheists, agnostics, Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, Hindus, Muslims, deists, wiccans, and everyone else. The thing we must all have is respect for each other's beliefs.

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I also get along with religious people of different religions, but religion divides people into different groups and you can only be part of one. Catholics exclude non-Christians from going to communion for example. People that aren't Muslim aren't allowed to go to some Muslim places etc. There are parts of a religion that excludes others and I object to that. As you know my mothers family is Muslim. When my aunt died my cousin washed. I asked her how and she wasn't allowed to talk about that. I was excluded for not being a Muslim because of prescriptions from the religion and I dislike those practises.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Leviticus was written to help a very disorganized group of desert people get their act together so they could become a strong nation. Leviticus is not full of rules for us; Leviticus was rules for them. And back then, thousands of years ago, there were valid reasons for those rules.

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Yes, one of the true reason of ''Leveticus".

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Originally Posted by Precious7

I say it!
People! Stop blaming it on religion, stone, leaf, tree, color, food, animal etc etc. You have the power to choose, If you want to harm you will.
Its you who are evil, or hurt, or intolerant etc etc. Don't blame on anything, anyone. If you have the Power to choose your Belief, then You certainly also have the Power to Choose your action, whether its evil or good.

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But they look for proof in the Bible, deliberately misinterpret it, and say, "The Bible says so," and then do evil.

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Originally Posted by Precious7

I know this famous Leviticus manipulate twisted letter, people post every where to validate their own personal hatred towards the God or other religion, and its people.

I have an answer surprise surprise! I can give you answer for 1- 10 if you insist, and for now I will give you short onne- Go and read the word by yourself, read it in its context, why it is written, it it what god needs, is it what's HIS true nature? know the purpose why it was written for, without any biased judgement, read it with other several scripture which talks about it. And read it with open heart. Read it without choose and pick attitude etc etc!

As I said Ignorance leads to destruction, ''My people perish bcos they don't know me''.

The very reason you used this Leviticus manipulation twisted letters bcos, you don't know what you are talking about, whom you are talking about, that's becos you don't read, that's bcos you don't believe it. You don't have full knowleged of what it says, you like to copy paste and pick, which satisfies your own selfish agenda of hating God and putting yourself above everything.

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I read the Bible, through and through and those things are in there! But I don't know it by heart and then this letters comes in handy, to name the exact places where they are written.

Please respect me enough to accept the fact that I thought all of this through. You are belittling me by acting as if I can only be an atheist because of ignorance. I respect your beliefs, please do me the courtesy to respect mine as well.

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Originally Posted by misspurple77

I also get along with religious people of different religions, but religion divides people into different groups and you can only be part of one. Catholics exclude non-Christians from going to communion for example. People that aren't Muslim aren't allowed to go to some Muslim places etc. There are parts of a religion that excludes others and I object to that. As you know my mothers family is Muslim. When my aunt died my cousin washed. I asked her how and she wasn't allowed to talk about that. I was excluded for not being a Muslim because of prescriptions from the religion and I dislike those practises.

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But those prohibitions are man-made from mistranslations and misinterpretations.

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Originally Posted by misspurple77

I also get along with religious people of different religions, but religion divides people into different groups and you can only be part of one. Catholics exclude non-Christians from going to communion for example. People that aren't Muslim aren't allowed to go to some Muslim places etc. There are parts of a religion that excludes others and I object to that. As you know my mothers family is Muslim. When my aunt died my cousin washed. I asked her how and she wasn't allowed to talk about that. I was excluded for not being a Muslim because of prescriptions from the religion and I dislike those practises.

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If you understood what the ceremony of Communion really was... only Catholics can participate in it... none of the members of Protestant churches that are also Christian can participate either. Its not exclusionary... its just a key part of that religion in its significance.

I've been a CHristian for longer than I can remember. I can't participate in a communion in a Catholic Church....Though I was married in one ( and not even during the Mass at the ceremony). Which also took getting special permission. My wife is Catholic..I am Protestant.

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Originally Posted by misspurple77

I read the Bible, through and through and those things are in there! But I don't know it by heart and then this letters comes in handy, to name the exact places where they are written.

Please respect me enough to accept the fact that I thought all of this through. You are belittling me by acting as if I can only be an atheist because of ignorance. I respect your beliefs, please do me the courtesy to respect mine as well.

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Yes, they are there but written only for ancient times and a certain group of people, not for us.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

If you understood what the ceremony of Communion really was... only Catholics can participate in it... none of the members of Protestant churches that are also Christian can participate either. Its not exclusionary... its just a key part of that religion in its significance.

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And that divide was established by men, not God.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Yes, they are there but written only for ancient times and a certain group of people, not for us.


And that divide was established by men, not God.

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I've never been upset by it... it is what it is. I didn't join the Catholic church because I don't believe in some of its doctrine. My Chosen branch of the Protestant Church only does a communion during one time of the year... and not all do it.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Leviticus was written to help a very disorganized group of desert people get their act together so they could become a strong nation. Leviticus is not full of rules for us; Leviticus was rules for them. And back then, thousands of years ago, there were valid reasons for those rules.

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No. There was never a valid reason for stoning people for eating shellfish, being homosexual, wearing different fabrics, blasphemy, cursing, planting different crops or wearing different fabrics. Or burning hem for sleeping with inlaws. Killing people for these reasons in unacceptable and so is slavery. A culture/religion with those values is an evil one. IS lives by those values todday, with sexslaves that are Christian or Yezidi's. We all agree that that is wrong now, so it was wrong then as well.

If those things were never written down then, then they couldn't have been used as a justification for what IS does today.

So it is a combination, people chose to do bad things and they use religion for it, but unfortunately also the other way around: people are being brainwashed by a religion, those texts are written in their holy book, their Imam tells them they should follow them, if they are not very developed or smart, they don't know any better.

That is also why I became atheist. I f God was all powerfull and benevolent, he would have created a world, in which it wasn't necesarry to stone homosexuals or enslave your neighbours! That this could be all right with him, back then, makes me think of him as evil. But I don't believe in God, so I only think of the men who wrote Leviticus as narrowminded, cruel, barbaric, evil righteous men, just like I think of IS (and Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, The Army of The Lord (Christians!) and a lot of similar groups today.

You can become a strong nation, without having to act like IS!

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I've never been upset by it... it is what it is. I didn't join the Catholic church because I don't believe in some of its doctrine. My Chosen branch of the Protestant Church only does a communion during one time of the year... and not all do it.

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And that was established by men.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Yes, they are there but written only for ancient times and a certain group of people, not for us.


And that divide was established by men, not God.

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I understand what communion is. In Suriname protestants are also allowed to participate in it, there are agreements between the protestant and the Catholic church there, but only the protestants that did their confirmation are allowed to participate. I understand that you need to believe in Jesus in order to eat his body and drink his blood and therefore enjoy the sacrifice that he made for us. I get it. But it is something for Christians only and I just don't like things that exclude others like that.

Yes, it wasn't established by God, because I don't believe he exists, but is done by men in the name of God, or in the name of religion, and that is one of the many reasons I am not a fan of religions.

If you don't believe in God, why would you want to take Communion? I know of churches that would allow it.

Misspurple makes a lot of sense.

Does religion make people evil, or make them do bad things? No, people make those choices by themselves, but, too many people use their religious beliefs to condone what they do. They feel righteous in doing something because their religion tells them it's okay.

Look at the bible. So many people say it's the word of God. Um, it was written by men. Had it been written by God it would make sense to everyone, and there would be no discrepancies. I think they need to write a sequel. I wouldn't mind a chapter or two in The Bible 2. :)

WG said that certain passages were written only for ancient times and a certain group of people, not for us. Okay, than what was written for us? Which parts do we adhere to, and which parts can we just let go, and who decides that? If keeping slaves wasn't meant for us, and it's okay to eat shell fish without being killed, than why do so many still hang on to gay marriage, which isn't even actually mentioned as a sin? Makes no sense.

Bottom line, no two people will have the same beliefs even in the same religion. Every human being interprets things the way they want to, to suit themselves, and to justify the things they want to do. It does come down to people, but people that believe in a certain religion, will and do use their beliefs to justify their actions.

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Originally Posted by Alty

Misspurple makes a lot of sense.

Does religion make people evil, or make them do bad things? No, people make those choices by themselves, but, too many people use their religious beliefs to condone what they do. They feel righteous in doing something because their religion tells them it's okay.

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WG said it first. MP agreed with me.

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WG said that certain passages were written only for ancient times and a certain group of people, not for us. Okay, than what was written for us?

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The New Testament, especially Jesus' two greatest commandments.

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Which parts do we adhere to, and which parts can we just let go, and who decides that? If keeping slaves wasn't meant for os, and it's okay to eat shell fish without being killed, than why do so many still hang on to gay marriage, which isn't even actually mentioned as a sin? Makes no sense.

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It would if you understand those ancient times and what was going on. And gay marriage and homosexuality are not mentioned in the Bible. Those are later terms shoved in by translators who were working off an agenda.

I don't want to take Communion, I don't even want to go to mass!

I just object to organising something that is only for one religion and not for all people and every religion has those things. Because I was a Catholic and my Mother is Muslim, I could only name examples of those two religions, but there are more of course.

I just really don't like exclusion.

I'd rather do something secular to bond people, like play a boardgame or something.

SO? I object to Soccer because I don't like it... but I don't have the right to demand nobody else can watch it... I just have to ignore it when people talk about it or turn the channel when it on TV.

Better get used to exclusion... It exists everyehere... it always has, and it always will.


Would you want men you don't know in the locker room you use... or the bathroom you use. That's a form of exclusion... DO you have people over for dinner you like? If you don't invite the people you don't like too then that is another form of exclusion.

Leviticus 20:13

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

If you should kill men for having sex with each other, it is very clear that you can't allow them to marry, according to Leviticus.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

WG said it first. MP agreed with me.

The New Testament, especially Jesus' two greatest commandments.

It would if you understand those ancient times and what was going on. And gay marriage and homosexuality are not mentioned in the Bible. Those are later terms shoved in by translators who were working off an agenda.

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Misspurple, I completely agree.

I was raised Lutheran, but went to Catholic school from 3rd grade until graduation. Part of going to Catholic school meant going to church (during school hours), on certain occasions (Easter, Christmas etc), and receiving communion. Because I was not baptized or confirmed in the Catholic religion, I had to go to church, but couldn't receive communion. I was teased relentlessly, told (not only by students but teachers) that I was going to hell because I wasn't Catholic.

My dad was Catholic, my mom Lutheran. They raised me Lutheran because they couldn't marry in the Catholic church unless my mom converted. She refused, so they married in the Lutheran Church, because they weren't as strict.

When my dad informed the priest that they'd be marrying in the Lutheran Church, he was told that he and my mother wouldn't be married in the eyes of God, that they'd be living in sin, and all their children would be bastards in the eyes of the church.

My parents let me experience both their religions. If I had to choose one, it would be Lutheran for sure, but I choose neither. I believe in God, but not one that excludes anyone because of the church they go to, which religion they follow, where they were baptized, etc. etc. In other words, I believe in God, but not religion.

Do you know how to play Euchre? We need a 4th. :)

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Originally Posted by misspurple77

Leviticus 20:13

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

If you should kill men for having sex with each other, it is very clear that you can't allow them to marry, according to Leviticus.

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See, something I agree with. And remember from Sunday school and church services.

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Originally Posted by misspurple77

Leviticus 20:13

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

If you should kill men for having sex with each other, it is very clear that you can't allow them to marry, according to Leviticus.

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That is mistranslated. Pagan temples had a fun orgy that people loved to go to. All admission fees went into the pagan temple's treasury. One of the really fun things to do during these orgies was not only straight men having sex with female prostitutes but -- WOW! even MORE fun -- having sex with straight men dressed up as women. They weren't homosexuals but the straight behavior was what we now think of as homosexual behavior.