Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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Hello HSB,

Both you and I posted our equations on a different forum. I claimed that the date for the end of the world was actually over a thousand years from now.

Why is the date you posted more accurate than mine? My formulation is based on sound Biblical fact and there is nothing wrong with the maths.

Why does Revelation 3:3 support your date and not mine? I am watching so don't I know the hour?

Isn't there going to be a problem here when you cite particular verses. I can always claim that any particular verse supports my date?


Is it not the case that your formulation has the same problem as mine i.e. both lack proof?


(I understand that 'your formulation' is not actually yours as such. But I use the word 'your' as a shorthand . In other words, 'your' means that you understand the formulation)


Tut

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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If that's what it says, as a DIRECT translation, in the original Hebrew, at the time it was quoted---okay then.

My favorite joke: There was a Pope who was greatly loved by all of his followers, a man who led with gentleness, faith and wisdom. His passing was grieved by the entire world, Catholic or not. As the Pope approached the gates of heaven, it was Saint Peter who greeted him in a firm embrace.

"Welcome your holiness, your dedication and unselfishness in serving your fellow man during your life has earned you great stature in heaven. You may pass through the gates without delay and are granted free access to all parts of heaven."

"You are also granted an open door policy and may at your own discretion meet with any heavenly leader, including the Father without prior appointment. Is there anything which our holiness desire?

"Well, yes," the Pope replied. "I have often pondered some of the mysteries which have puzzled and confounded theologians through the ages. Are there perhaps any transcripts which recorded the actual conversations between God and the prophets of old? I would love to see what was actually said without the dimming of memories over time."

Saint Peter immediately ushered the Pope to the heavenly library and explained how to retrieve the various documents. The Pope was thrilled and settled down to review the history of man's relationship with God. Two years later a scream of anguish pierced the stacks of the library.

Immediately several of the saints and angels came running. There found the Pope pointing to a single word on a parchment, repeating over and over, "There's an 'R', there's an 'R' -- it's celebrate, not celibate!"

Amazing what a difference in translation or an error in copying can make to an entire religion, no?

The whole idea of the end of the world has never made sense to me. I think that if you live your life giving to others (as Jesus would) and caring for those around you, then the date makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.


Finally--No just god would make me wait 10 years to get pregnant, then end the world before I'm even at the 20 week mark where an ultrasound would show me the gender of the baby.

TUT
There are other issues involved besides the specific numbers of the 'date.'
[1] Motivation for posting this kind of 'prediction.' For example Ezekiel 3:17 "Son of man I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel. Therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me." Many people are not aware and simply will not acknowledge that a watchman can legitimately be interpreted to mean someone who is 'watching' in the Bible. Also that Israel is a metaphor for all the professing Christians in our day. Many who call themselves Christians simply do not accept the spiritual import of the so called Old Testament. They understand that Ezekiel is to be taken only in its literal and grammatical context. They do not accept the fact that every word of Ezekiel is literally the words of Jesus Christ (Jehovah God) to us today. Just as Jesus' words in the New Testament are. They believe that having harmony of the scriptures and rightly dividing the word of truth means to essentially ignore any spiritual message in the Old Testament. My motivation is to hammer home the concept that the Old Testament IS EQUALLY VALID today.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

TUT
My motivation is to hammer home the concept that the Old Testament IS EQUALLY VALID today.

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So... we should be stoning to death people who are divorced and remarried for committing adultery? And when a man dies, his brother should marry his widow? And adultery is okay as long as the father is drunk and the daughters are seducing him, right? And police shouldn't stop a man from trying to sacrifice his son on an altar, as long as the man says that God told him to do it, right?

I think that unless you're taking the ENTIRE Bible as literal and valid, you've got some selective ideas JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

TUT
There are other issues involved besides the specific numbers of the 'date.'
[1] Motivation for posting this kind of 'prediction.' For example Ezekiel 3:17 "Son of man I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel. Therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me." Many people are not aware and simply will not acknowledge that a watchman can legitimately be interpreted to mean someone who is 'watching' in the Bible. Also that Israel is a metaphor for all the professing Christians in our day. Many who call themselves Christians simply do not accept the spiritual import of the so called Old Testament. They understand that Ezekiel is to be taken only in its literal and grammatical context. They do not accept the fact that every word of Ezekiel is literally the words of Jesus Christ (Jehovah God) to us today. Just as Jesus' words in the New Testament are. They believe that having harmony of the scriptures and rightly dividing the word of truth means to essentially ignore any spiritual message in the Old Testament. My motivation is to hammer home the concept that the Old Testament IS EQUALLY VALID today.

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My question is how do 'other issues' point to that specific date. I would have said that the only way to get to a specific date is to calculate it. Unless, of course there is a date mentioned somewhere else in the Bible.

Tut

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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So, are you saying that whoever initially made this prediction is a prophet of God? Something doesn't add up here to me... Doesn't the story go that God spoke to Noah and told him to build the ark...

So did God speak to the guy who made up the May 21, 2011 date?

Maybe I need to read the bible again...

HSB,
While I applaud your courage to finally come on and stand up for your convictions, I still am waiting for an answer to my original question in another thread.
When May 22 rolls around and nothing has happened will you have to courage to come back on the forum and admit your mistake or will you, like a bad penny, simply disappear?
And one more question for you. This heresy of date predictions has been around since the 1880's or so, so what makes you think your leaders predictions is correct this time?

Tut and Depressed,
The big issue is that we need to continue to look at (watch) the Bible. Because God is actually speaking to us when we humble ourselves enough to say "You teach me through the Bible. In myself I'm not smart enough to apprehend the things that God's spirit teaches." Though the date comes from the Bible, we need to realize that our calculations are not the source of the date.

450donn
"This heresy of date predictions.. " By that quote you're really saying that your mind is already made up. I don't see any point to a discussion with someone whose mind is closed on the subject.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

our calculations are not the source of the date.

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Of course, they are!

I guess, in the interest of fairness, I need to add that at any time before 1988 the effort to predict the date of Christ's return should be considered heretical. And it was doomed to failure from the outset. Because God said that no one knows except God Himself (Jesus is fully God). But things have changed dramatically since 1988. The Church Age has ended with Satan installed officially in all the churches as ruler. The Great Tribulation has been in full swing since 1988 until now. And the seven seals spoken of in Revelation and in Daniel have been opened by Jesus. Revealing much new insight into words that have not changed for about 2000 years.

Not the actual source. Calculations are merely a tool. Understanding and interpretation are more directly connected to the idea of source.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

I guess, in the interest of fairness, I need to add that at any time before 1988 the effort to predict the date of Christ's return should be considered heretical. And it was doomed to failure from the outset. Because God said that no one knows except God Himself (Jesus is fully God). But things have changed dramatically since 1988. The Church Age has ended with Satan installed officially in all the churches as ruler. The Great Tribulation has been in full swing since 1988 until now. And the seven seals spoken of in Revelation and in Daniel have been opened by Jesus. Revealing much new insight into words that have not changed for about 2000 years.

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Where is 1988 mentioned in the bible? Can I please have the direct bible verse that outlines the implementation plan of the Satanical installation in all churches? When was such an upgrade (or downgrade) begun and completed? And were we supplied with end-user manuals?

I would appreciate your biblical information on this matter, as it is indeed concerning... my mother attends church, you see.

HSB comments: Not the actual source. Calculations are merely a tool. Understanding and interpretation are more directly connected to the idea of source.
It's only HC's (no one else's) calculations based on only his (no one else's) understanding and interpretation.

Why hasn't the (Christian) world jumped on HC's bandwagon? Probably fewer than one hundred people are aboard.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

450donn
"This heresy of date predictions.." By that quote you're really saying that your mind is already made up. I don't see any point to a discussion with someone whose mind is closed on the subject.

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So, exactly as I thought, you cannot support your theories with scripture. If as you claim my mind is made up, change it. Prove to me your theories are correct and mine is false.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Tut and Depressed,
The big issue is that we need to continue to look at (watch) the Bible. Because God is actually speaking to us when we humble ourselves enough to say "You teach me through the Bible. In myself I'm not smart enough to apprehend the things that God's spirit teaches." Though the date comes from the Bible, we need to realize that our calculations are not the source of the date.

450donn
"This heresy of date predictions.." By that quote you're really saying that your mind is already made up. I don't see any point to a discussion with someone whose mind is closed on the subject.

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I mean no disrespect to your beliefs, so when I ask this, I'm truly searching for a direct answer from you if you will...

So when did you become a believer in all of this? HOW did you become a believer in all of this? Did God speak to you? Again, whoever claimed this date to be the end, is he considered to be a prophet of God? Do you consider yourself to be a prophet of God, or a follower of a prophet to God?

For me, I would need some serious proof to become a believer. One might ask or say to me "Well you can't see God, there is no proof, so how do you believe in God"-and my answer would be "God is in my heart, I feel Him, therefore I know..."

However, this theory is coming from some individual who probably conceived it from some other individual and so on and so forth... can he say the same?

This is a big deal, I can't somehow get it out of my head or my heart that someone is just screwing with people to see what may come of it; hence my initial post. This is scary. We know the world is going to come to an end, no one knows when, why try to predict a certain date and scare the shiz out of a bunch of people, or maybe even cause a catastrophe over making people believe that we only have two months left to live or the majority of us are going to die terrible slow deaths if we don't get accepted into God's Kingdom then(sorry for the run-on).

I know there are many people out there who truly believe in this theory; however, I would personally rather not know.

Sorry, I don't accept challenges to argue, or challenges to show who's smarter.

Dear Depressed,

If you'd really rather not know, then why the discussion ?

The classic response to bad news is that if you can't get them to stop spreading it, then try to kill the messenger, or at least silence him.

My advice is that if you don't like the news, just change the channel. You don't have to pay attention to it at all. Your privilege, and your choice.. . I'm just saying.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

I guess, in the interest of fairness, I need to add that at any time before 1988 the effort to predict the date of Christ's return should be considered heretical. And it was doomed to failure from the outset. Because God said that no one knows except God Himself (Jesus is fully God). But things have changed dramatically since 1988. The Church Age has ended with Satan installed officially in all the churches as ruler. The Great Tribulation has been in full swing since 1988 until now. And the seven seals spoken of in Revelation and in Daniel have been opened by Jesus. Revealing much new insight into words that have not changed for about 2000 years.

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REALLY? I don't even BELIEVE in Satan--how could he be the ruler of my church--especially since there IS no head of my church?

And when were those seals broken? What are your SPECIFIC signs that you're using here? I don't remember the sun becoming as sackcloth and the moon as blood, and there have been any NUMBER of great earthquakes---which one are you counting? And frankly, the first 4 seals could have been ANY time in the last 2000 years, because there has NEVER been a time with no war, no hunger, and no death.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Dear Depressed,

If you'd really rather not know, then why the discussion ?

The classic response to bad news is that if you can't get them to stop spreading it, then try to kill the messenger, or at least silence him.

My advice is that if you don't like the news, just change the channel. You don't have to pay attention to it at all. Your privilege, and your choice. .....I'm just saying.

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Well thank you for that advice, I think, but it's kind of hard not knowing when you have a bunch of funked up people practically in your face spreading around the unthinkable bad news. Almost every thread I go into on here, you eventually show up and squeeze in the fact that the May 21 is just around the corner, so who cares about anything else.

I don't care what you think about my comment, you had absolutely no answer to my very respectful, polite question as to where and how your beliefs became about-which was the most important part of all of my last post . All I was trying to do was to learn more about your beliefs and how they came to be.

I would never follow you or your crowd of drunks who leave their families and belongings behind... but if you all are trying to recruit more people into your popular beliefs, you may want to try different tactics other than just blurting out that the world is going to end soon.

So my reply to you is, if you think we are all oblivous to your facts, why don't you simply change the channel and go somewhere where somebody may care. Just go away with all this junk and quit preaching your bull that you have absolutely no real basis on. You truly have no idea what you are doing to some people, including myself. That is what I meant when I said I'd rather not kow.