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Originally Posted by galveston

See: Rom 3:10-12, 3:23, 5:12, Ps 14:3, 53:3,

Do you guys believe these Scriptures? They prove the UNIVERSAL need for us to be saved from our sin. There are NO exclusions.

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If a man is run over by a truck and taken to a hospital and the doctor treats him, then it is said the doctor saved him.

If a man is crossing the street and another man warns him that a truck is coming. Did that other man save him from being run over?

We, are saved as by the first instance. Jesus saved us after we were impacted by original sin.

Jesus saved Mary in the second instance. Because He knew that she would be His Mother, He prevented her from being affected by sin.

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These also illustrate what I said about every true doctrine being supported by several passages.

PS, Joe, I ain't Juan. He lives a few blocks South of me.

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North.

May we go over those Scriptures one at a time? Feel free to start and add your comments to each. I want to see how you claim that they impact Mary.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

If a man is run over by a truck and taken to a hospital and the doctor treats him, then it is said the doctor saved him.

If a man is crossing the street and another man warns him that a truck is coming. Did that other man save him from being run over?

We, are saved as by the first instance. Jesus saved us after we were impacted by original sin.

Jesus saved Mary in the second instance. Because He knew that she would be His Mother, He prevented her from being affected by sin.




North.

May we go over those Scriptures one at a time? Feel free to start and add your comments to each. I want to see how you claim that they impact Mary.

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Ps 14:3 & 53:3 say the same thing, that God looked down and found no good people. Did God tell the truth? Yes.

Rom. 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one. Vs. 12 says the same thing.
Vs 23 For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Did that mean except Mary? I think not.

Want more?

What did Jesus say on the subject?
Mt. 19:17 "There is none good but one, that is, God." - - -

What did Jesus say about His mother?

Lu. 11:27 "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and th paps which thou hast sucked.
28. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

Mt. 12:47 "Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy bretheren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48. But he answered and said unnto him that told him, Who is my mother? And who ae my brethren?
49. And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!"

I can't see that these passages need any interpretation. Can you?

Your reasoning seems to be like this:

God, (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) created everything, including mankind.

Mary gave birth to Jesus the man, who you call God. (Jesus never said that of Himself)

Therefore Mary is the mother of God.

That makes Mary before God, which is impossible. Why can't you see how convoluted this reasoning is?

Jesus said this about His relationship to the Father:

John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my bretheren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God."

And finally, for now at least:

Heb. 10:5 "Wherefore when he (Jesus) cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me."

Mary gave Him that body that was to be the final and perfect sacrifice for sin. That was what she is the mother of, not the eternal God the Son.

I do honor Mary, but if she had no sinful nature, then she herself could have been our savior and Jesus would not have been needed.

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Originally Posted by galveston

Ps 14:3 & 53:3 say the same thing, that God looked down and found no good people. Did God tell the truth? Yes.

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Why didn't you quote them? I want to see if that is true. Then we can deal with the rest.

My time is short this evening so let me suggest an excerpt from St. John Chrysostom’s homily.

Rom 3:10

What then have we more than they? For we have proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues have they used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: their feet are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in their ways: and the way of peace have they not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.

“He had accused the Gentiles, he had accused the Jews; it came next in order to mention the righteousness which is by faith. For if the law of nature availed not, and the written Law was of no advantage, but both weighed down those that used them not aright, and made it plain that they were worthy of greater punishment, then after this the salvation which is by grace was necessary. Speak then of it, O Paul, and display it. But as yet he does not venture, as having an eye to the violence of the Jews, and so turns afresh to his accusation of them; and first he brings in as accuser, David speaking of the same things at length, which Isaiah mentioned all in short compass, so furnishing a strong curb for them, so that they might not bound off, nor any of his hearers, while the matters of faith were laid open to them, might after this start away; being beforehand safely held down by the accusations of the prophets. For there are three excesses which the prophet lays down; he says that all of them together did evil, and that they did not do good indifferently with evil, but that they followed after wickedness alone, and followed it also with all earnestness. And next that they should not say, What then, if these things were said to others? “ And he goes on… CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 7 on Romans (Chrysostom)

I wouldn’t finish reading it, you may not like it.