Ask Me Help Desk - More Americans losing religion

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Originally Posted by galveston

We should keep something in mind about money the church gets. I comes from voluntary contributions. When the congregation ceases to trust the leadership, the money will stop.

Churches do not get money from the government. Certain faith based programs may, but those are things that benefit the community, not the church. Churches are tax exempt, but ministers are not.

What defines "organized" religion? As I understand it, the survey made no distinction between basic differences in organizations, whether Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, or Pentecostal, etc. A clearer picture could be seen if the survey had been broken down into the various groups. I think it can be shown that some groups are actually growing.

Churches may not be getting money from the gov. but they don't pay taxes either. Isn't that basically taking money, just through the back door?

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Originally Posted by cozyk

Churches may not be getting money from the gov. but they don't pay taxes either. Isn't that basically taking money, just through the back door?

Unlike some today, the founders of this country understood the value of the Church to society. They recognized the only "hands off" way to create a favorable climate in which the Church could prosper was to make it tax exempt. Now that only applies to those properties that are actually used for ministerial purposes

Some groups are pushing the envelope with church related businesses, and that is a legitimate concern, but it is not exactly accurate to say that being tax exempt is the same thing as receiving money from the government.

Carried to the logical conclusion then would be to say since the Church is tax exempt and therefore receiving government money, then government could dictate church policy, thus creating a State church. That of course, is anathama to the Constitution.

Do you want the government telling the Church how it should operate or what it should teach?

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QUOTE=galveston;1617849]Unlike some today, the founders of this country understood the value of the Church to society.

There is value when it operates properly in it's community.

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They recognized the only "hands off" way to create a favorable climate in which the Church could prosper was to make it tax exempt.

Define "prosper".

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Some groups are pushing the envelope with church related businesses, and that is a legitimate concern,

I agree

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but it is not exactly accurate to say that being tax exempt is the same thing as receiving money from the government.

I agree it is not "exactly" accurate but it just about amounts to the same thing.

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Do you want the government telling the Church how it should operate or what it should teach?

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Absolutely not. And I don't want my gov issuing special perks to the church either, like making it tax exempt. It has a capacity to generate a lot of money, tax free. Any other group, person, or even gift recipient has to pay taxes on their earnings. Why not the church? When they make charitable donations or support missions , then they take the tax deduction. Just like everybody else. What about that does not make total sense?

Also, by taking advantage of the perk given by the gov, (tax exemption) seems like that would make them even MORE beholding to the gov telling them how to operate.

I think people should just be free to believe whatever they want and feel to be true for them. Organized religion pretty much tells you what things you have to believe. Sounds political to me.

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Originally Posted by mugger

i think people should just be free to believe whatever they want and feel to be true for them. organized religion pretty much tells you what things you have to believe. sounds political to me.

I totally agree with you. Why do we not have the option to do a greenie?

In my hometown 4 Catholic churches have been forced to close due to a struggling economy and the fact that there are no priests.
Heaven forbid they should allow a woman to preach and save their church.

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I totally agree with you. Why do we not have the option to do a greenie?

Because this is the discussion board.

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Originally Posted by artlady

Because this is the discussion board.

Oooohhhhh. That makes sense I guess.

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Originally Posted by mugger

i think people should just be free to believe whatever they want and feel to be true for them. organized religion pretty much tells you what things you have to believe. sounds political to me.

I agree. People should believe what they want to. I think that people should choose the religion that they feel is right for them instead of being forced to practice the religion they were born into. I have many mixed beliefs so I don't really practice religion. I think it's just sometimes a matter of being young and living in a diverse country. Everything gets jumbled for kids who don't have parents that are religious or kids who have friends that are of other religions.

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Originally Posted by artlady

In my hometown 4 Catholic churches have been forced to close due to a struggling economy and the fact that there are no priests.
Heaven forbid they should allow a woman to preach and save their church.

Mark my words. They will reconsider, and have a change of policy when they don't have enough males to fill the posts. That is what happened to my protestant churches I used to attend. Once upon a time you could not be a woman and hold a leadership position of any kind. When positions became difficult to fill, they changed their belief.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

Mark my words. They will reconsider, and have a change of policy when they don't have enough males to fill the posts. That is what happened to my protestant churches I used to attend. Once upon a time you could not be a woman and hold a leadership position of any kind. When positions became difficult to fill, they changed their belief.

In a perfect world you would think so but this is The Catholic Church and getting them to change policy is like pulling teeth.They still don't believe in birth control :confused:

Over and over, I see people complaining about forced religion (down our throats, etc,) ad nauseum.

No one here is forced to attend ANY church or believe ANYTHING.

Now if you live in an Islamic state, that is NOT true!

"You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free". Jesus Christ.

The Christian faith has produced more real freedom in this world than any other influence.

Note that I did not say "church membership".

I agree about people not being forced into believing in a religion. It's just that a lot of people become so influenced by their religion at a young age that they think that their religion is the one that is correct just because they were born into it. Sometimes they're so absorbed that it makes them so closeminded to others beliefs that they hate people that are not of their own religion or sect. that's why I don't practice any religion. There are just so many and everyone thinks their beliefs are correct. I just want to mix together beliefs and incorporate them into my own.

Personally, I don't want to introduce my child to any religion.

Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Now, upon reading a definition from the online dictionary, who here would tell me that LAW, or any belief/ moral is not a religion? Any thing that you believe is a religion. People are not losing reliegion, they are changing it, and others are living by the codes and values of people who didn't understand how the world works, especially today.

If you think that you are not religious then prove to me that you do not in fact care either way about any thing at all. Life, death, babies, children, people, loved ones, cars, money, power, freedom, and so on. Every one has a religion, they just don't have a name for it, though I suppose Athism would probably be accurate?

XOXOlove, you are doing the same thing, thinking religion is what ever you think it is because you were raised in such a way, not necessarrily encouraged, but reasoned that religion is one thing or another.
In actuality, religion is apart of us all, unless you have not the capacity to think of your own acord.

Something I've realised about life it's self is that, life is not definable, it's Pliable. For example; "You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free". Jesus Christ. I'm sure most people agree that this means that if you embrace the truth, you will be set free. Well for me, it means realising that you are not ever free until you realise that you must accept the chains of responsibility before you can be free. I have put a few Phrases together to show My understanding of this concept.
"Knowledge is power, with great power comes great responsibility, through responsibility comes freedom."- Various sources.
So it's a Paradox, It says that knowledge is power,and power means responsibility, and that will bring freedom; However, "freedom - the power to determine action without restraint." is rather contradictory to the idea of "Responsibility - Something for which one is responsible; a duty, obligation, or burden." No? But the statement remains valid. Interesting if you ask me, because it's subject to interpretation. There can be any number of possible ideas from "Knowledge is power..."

That is the same for any religion, or belief, or idea. Pliable is the best word I've so far found for this idea/ concept what ever. I realise that ties very loosely into the converstation but, it also opens the doors to some more complex issues...

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Originally Posted by Sunflowers

Personally, I don't want to introduce my child to any religion.

The fact that you just said that, is a show of religious motivation, due to that you believe that religion is some how "bad" or "wrong". You may want to make it more specific, like you don't want to introduce them to CHristianity, or JW, or Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confusionism, etc...

Eh?

Religion belongs on the same shelf as Hansel and Gretel, The Wisard of Oz and other fairy tales and make believe things such as the boggy man, easter bunny, tooth fairy, santa claus, you know childhood fantasy land. Though the bible stories are a little violent for the little ones, I think those can be left out or left for later in life.

For me life is, death happens, enjoy the ride, end of story

For ALL of us death happens! All of us should enjoy the ride but what a horrible waste if this is all there is!

A horrible waste of what?