Wondergirl,

Sorry had to watch american idol.

The Lord Jesus followed the Law... not just the ten commandments.. and he fulfilled ALL of the law not just the ten commandments. We are living under GRACE... we are no longer under law as Paul teaches. We eat pork and red lobster because the Lord himself told Peter in Acts to arise and eat the unclean food that had been forbidden under the law. Honestly, you can go around it, over look it, override it, over analysis it, ignore it , or change it to fit an agenda. But God is NOT the author of confusion... He says what he means and he means what he says. It is in black and white and you want to discuss if it really applies or actually says it?errrr frustrating... but I'm not going to change your mind. Homosexuality according to the Bible is wrong. But I have YET to be on this site discussing biblical doctrine where the other person concedes that they are wrong and I am right. So I reckon we will have to agree to disagree.


(but you are so wrong)

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I see no doubt in the translation except for those that wish not to accept it, You can call a fish a cow but it is still a fish.

This issue has been reahashed time and time again
those that are pro homoseuxal will not accept what the bible says, those that follow and beleive in the bible have no doubt in what it says.

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I think that you hit the nail right on the head. This is why this keep going around and around in circles.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

That being said, there's a verse in the OT: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable" (Lev. 20:13). Obviously this was said to the majority heterosexual population. If the author was speaking about homosexuals in that verse, he would be referring to homosexuals lying also with a woman, which would not be something they would do.

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You have got to be kidding. You are now going to divide up the population into straight males, homosexual males and straights males who have sex with men?

Are you serious??

I cannot believe this verse could be considered anything else, It is obvious the meaning and the warnig

Lev. 20:13 = Hebrew toe'vah (and Greek bdelygma) = "abomination" meaning "ritual impurity" and "ethnic contamination" and "foreign religious cult practice"

Another translation of Lev. 20:13, into modern English, is "It is an abomination for two men to have sex on a woman's bed. They are to be executed; it is their own fault." The interpretation is that this was another abomination in Leviticus that lists improper mixing of things that should be kept separate. A woman's bed was her own. Only her husband was permitted there, and then only under certain circumstances. Any other use of her bed would be a defilement.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You have got to be kidding. You are now going to divide up the population into straight males, homosexual males and straights males who have sex with men?

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That's what we have in the world now.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Another translation of Lev. 20:13, into modern English, is "It is an abomination for two men to have sex on a woman's bed. They are to be executed; it is their own fault." The interpretation is that this was another abomination in Leviticus that lists improper mixing of things that should be kept separate. A woman's bed was her own. Only her husband was permitted there, and then only under certain circumstances. Any other use of her bed would be a defilement.

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I always find it interesting when someone says "another translation" without saying what translation they are using. I looked it up - it is the National Gay Pentecostal Alliance (NGPA) interpretation.

That speaks for itself. I have found no other translation which makes that claim.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

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Originally Posted by Tj3
You have got to be kidding. You are now going to divide up the population into straight males, homosexual males and straights males who have sex with men?

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That's what we have in the world now.

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I would not have believed it unless I had seen it myself that anyone could have made such a claim seriously.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I would not have believed it unless I had seen it myself that anyone could have made such a claim seriously.

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Straight males who have sex with men - prison populations?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Straight males who have sex with men - prison populations?

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And you don't think that is homosexual activity? Do you know what the word homosexual means? "homo" = "same", "sex" - well, you get the point.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I always find it interesting when someone says "another translation" without saying what translation they are using. I looked it up - it is the National Gay Pentecostal Alliance (NGPA) interpretation.

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And your interpretation is fundamentalist Christian.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

And you don't think that is homosexual activity? Do you know what the word homosexual means? "homo" = "same", "sex" - well, you get the point.

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No. Straight males do have sex with straight males in prison.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And your interpretation is fundamentalist Christian.

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If what you mean by fundametalist Christian is a person who reads the word and believes it without putting any spin on it... hey, count me IN!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And your interpretation is fundamentalist Christian.

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No, read ANY credible translation. Look at the original language.

What about this:

Lev. 20:13 = Hebrew toe'vah (and Greek bdelygma) = "abomination" meaning "ritual impurity" and "ethnic contamination" and "foreign religious cult practice"

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No. Straight males do have sex with straight males in prison.

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If two men have sex together, whatever possesses you to say that they are straight. At best, an argument could be made for bi-sexual, which is a variant on homosexuality, but straight? Hardly.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

What about this:

Lev. 20:13 = Hebrew toe'vah (and Greek bdelygma) = "abomination" meaning "ritual impurity" and "ethnic contamination" and "foreign religious cult practice"

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Strong's concordance suggests that you left something out:

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Tow` ebah (to-ay-baw'); or to` ebah (to-ay-baw'); feminine active participle of OT:8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol:
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BTW, the OT was written in Hebrew, not Greek.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

No, read ANY credible translation. Look at the original language.

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Actually, we don't have the original language. We don't have the original writings.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Strong's concordance suggests that you left something out:

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tow` ebah (to-ay-baw'); or to` ebah (to-ay-baw'); feminine active participle of OT:8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol:
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BTW, the OT was written in Hebrew, not Greek.

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But not a sin. Only an offense that requires ritual cleansing.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Actually, we don't have the original language.

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We don't have Hebrew?? Tell that to any Jew and see what they say.

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We don't have the original writings.

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We do have the original content - perhaps the original autograph, but we have the content.

Or you are now going further and denying that the whole Bible can be trusted?