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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Tj:

In fact Tj, I don't speak about "sexual orientation rights". I don't know what that is.

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I did not say that you did. Read again, carefully this time!

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I'm right - you're wrong.

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Not a compelling argument.

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I don't expect you to confine yourself to THAT argument, as I get that you think gay marriage equates to pedophile rights.

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First you falsely accuse me of claiming you said something that you didn't. Then you take it upon yourself to put words in my mouth. The word "hypocrisy" comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

According to the bible, the ACT of homosexuality, like any other sin, is wrong.

We are all sinners, and it is sinners that Jesus Christ loves - that He died and resurrected for us . :)




G&P

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Yes thank you I know He has I just really wanted to get everones views:)

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Not a compelling argument.

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You conveniently left out his argument. The sentence that preceded what you quoted is: "If you followed my argument, I specifically spoke about gay marriage. I can back up my argument with Constitutional law." But you chose to leave that out.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Then you take it upon yourself to put words in my mouth. The word "hypocrisy" comes to mind.

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You said: "I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized?" I'd say he summarized it correctly.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You conveniently left out his argument. The sentence that preceded what you quoted is: "If you followed my argument, I specifically spoke about gay marriage. I can back up my argument with Constitutional law." But you chose to leave that out.

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Yes, because it was irrelevant. We are not speaking about constitutional law - this is the "Religious Discussion" board, not the "Constitutional Law" board. Besides.constitutional law depends greatly upon what country you live in, what the basis for that law is (British, Napoleonic, etc.), and a few other factors.

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You said: "I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized?" I'd say he summarized it correctly.

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I stand by what I said.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Yes, because it was irrelevant. We are not speaking about constitutional law - this is the "Religious Discussion" board, not the "Constitutional Law"

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Hello again, Tj:

You're a slippery little devil, but I got your number...

So, because this is a religious discussion board, your suggestion that I think pedophiles should have the right to molest children, should NOT go unquestioned...

I understand. That's what religion has done since it's inception. Lie. You represent it well.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

So, because this is a religious discussion board, your suggestion that I think pedophiles should have the right to molest children, should NOT go unquestioned...

I understand. That's what religion has done since it's inception. Lie. You represent it well.

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excon,

I nsaid nothing of the sort, and you were told that before also. If you feel the need to smear those who disagree with you, then that says more about you than me.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Interesting. I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized? There is already a group working on recognition of homosexual pedophile rights - rights to practice their sexual orientation. Also, many people say that the Bible does not speak about the orientation, just the act, but in fact the Bible does speak about the orientation.

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I hope I won't be accused of misrepresenting or persecuting or falsely accusing you of anything if I simply ask where you find the Bible speaking about the orientation as something distinct from the act.

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Originally Posted by Akoue

I hope I won't be accused of misrepresenting or persecuting or falsely accusing you of anything if I simply ask where you find the Bible speaking about the orientation as something distinct from the act.

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You would never be accused of any of those if you don't do them. I hope that I won't be accused of lying for defending my faith.

There are many places throughout scripture, from one end to the other. Here are two:

Gen 8:20-21
21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
NKJV

What do you think the imagination of man's heart is?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You would never be accused of any of those if you don't do them. I hope that I won't be accused of lying for defending my faith.

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I keep forgetting. You're the only one who's allowed to bully people. (And it's textbook bullying, really, complete with persecution-complex and accusations that others are willfully maligning you if they have the temerity not to agree with what you say.)

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There are many places throughout scripture, from one end to the other. Here are two:

Gen 8:20-21
21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
NKJV

What do you think the imagination of man's heart is?

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What on earth makes you think this is talking about sexual orientation? Am I to infer from this rather feeble offering that you couldn't find a place where the Bible talks about sexual orientation as opposed to sexual acts?

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Originally Posted by Akoue

I keep forgetting. You're the only one who's allowed to bully people.

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No one, including you, is allowed to bully people. Some people apparently assume the right to do so, or get frustrated when they have no response and assume that abuse is the best response to one is unwilling or unable to admit they have no answer.

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What on earth makes you think this is talking about sexual orientation?

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You asked where the Bible speaks of "orientation", so I gave an example. We have to start with basics sometimes to avoid mis-understandings.

I note that you did not answer my question.

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Am I to infer from this rather feeble offering that you couldn't find a place where the Bible talks about sexual orientation as opposed to sexual acts?

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If you are unable to carry on a civil and respectful discussion, then we are unlikely to get anywhere. Were you looking for a real answer, or an excuse to abuse?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

What do you think the imagination of man's heart is?

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It is such a vague idea that it could basically represent anything. It could represent free will, it could represent just that: "his imagination". Why do you think it represents a man's sexual orientation?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

It is such a vague idea that it could basically represent anything. It could represent free will, it could represent just that: "his imagination". Why do you think it represents a man's sexual orientation?

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Why do you think that I said that it referred to sexual orientation when I just responded to that very point to Akoue.

As for whether it refers to a person's orientation in general, let me ask you - what in your opinion is an "orientation"? Take the "sexual" out of it, and let's just consider a person's orientation or in any sphere of life. Define what you mean, so that we can see if we are on the same track.

Well, Tom, here's what you said in your respoonse to ClassyT:

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Interesting. I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized? There is already a group working on recognition of homosexual pedophile rights - rights to practice their sexual orientation. Also, many people say that the Bible does not speak about the orientation, just the act, but in fact the Bible does speak about the orientation.

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I quoted this in my post, #27. Also, if that weren't enough, the thread has been about HOMOSEXUALITY.

So the question is, why did you quote that bit of Scripture as though it has anything to do with sexual orientation?

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Originally Posted by Akoue

Well, Tom, here's what you said in your respoonse to ClassyT:

I quoted this in my post, #27. Also, if that weren't enough, the thread has been about HOMOSEXUALITY.

So the question is, why did you quote that bit of Scripture as though it has anything to do with sexual orientation?

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Sigh! Did you read what I wrote?

As I said, you asked about orientation. Sometimes, particularly in cases like this (as we can see from this discussion), we have to ease into a topic by going back to basics. You appeared to be unaware that orientation is mentioned at all in scriopture. If we can get past that, we can look at sexual orientation.

If on the other hand, you just want to make belligerent comments about me rather than engaging in a discussion, then clearly we are not going to move forward. You asked a question - were you serious about wanting an answer? If so, then get down off your high horse and let's have a respectful dialogue.

I note that you still have not answered the question that I asked you.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Interesting. I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized? There is already a group working on recognition of homosexual pedophile rights - rights to practice their sexual orientation. Also, many people say that the Bible does not speak about the orientation, just the act, but in fact the Bible does speak about the orientation.

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Pedophiles are usually straight males. It's a deviance, not an orientation.

I thought this thread is about homosexuality.

But to many homosexuality is just another perversion thus the issue, pedophiles, perfering animals and so on are just extremes of varoius perversions, while not related to each other to some of us, we see little difference, only in extreme.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

But to many homosexuality is just another perversion thus the issue, pedophiles, perfering animals and so on are just extremes of varoius perversions, while not related to each other to some of us, we see little difference, only in extreme.

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I can't figure out what you wrote. Pedophiles are not homosexual.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Pedophiles are usually straight males. It's a deviance, not an orientation.

I thought this thread is about homosexuality.

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First, when we speak about a sexual orientation, we need to understand that whatever you attribute to a sexual orientation such as homosexuality may also apply to other sexual orientation such as pedophilia.

As for your argument that pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, professionals in this area disagree. Here is a quote from the National Register of Sex Offenders website:

"Pedophilia involves sexual attraction/orientation towards children, and usually involves males." (Source: http://www.registeredoffenderslist.o...pedophilia.htm).

There are other sexual orientations also.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

First, when we speak about a sexual orientation, we need to understand that whatever you attribute to a sexual orientation such as homosexuality may also apply to other sexual orientation such as pedophilia.

As for your argument that pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, professionals in this area disagree. Here is a quote from the National Register of Sex Offenders website:

"Pedophilia involves sexual attraction/orientation towards children, and usually involves males." (Source: What is Pedophilia and why is it such an epidemic? - RegisteredOffendersList.Org).

There are other sexual orientations also.

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orientation = turning towards (like the word "attraction" mentioned just before it)

Pedophilia is "turning towards" or "orientating towards" children, usually by straight males.

It's a different use of the word "orientation."

I can orientate toward the sunrise every morning.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

orientation = turning towards (like the word "attraction" mentioned just before it)

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Yep, and there are numerous sexual orientations, including pedophilia, as indicated by that site and other experts in the field, and in agreement with even your definition above.

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Pedophilia is "turning towards" or "orientating towards" children, usually by straight males.

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Usually only because the overwhelming majority of males are straight. The percentage of pedophile homosexuals is no less however, and some studies have shown a notably higher rate of pedophilia amongst homosexual males. Regardless, I am not sure what this has to do with what we are discussing.

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It's a different use of the word "orientation."

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One sexual orientation versus another. I see no difference. Hypersexuality is also referred to as a sexual orientation.