I was on a plane and when I heard a man express his hatred of blacks and then claim his position as a Christian …There were at least four people of black heritage on the plane and three did not respond to this guy…one black woman started laughing... when ask why she’d laugh at this guy instead of calling him out... she said I did... he is a fool and I control the situation... I notice only one other join him…this Christian that hate blacks…others pn the plane including myself just watched for reaction of other blacks... I started to laugh at the guy... I notice that he was not attractive and he looked as if money took a long time to come his way... as I walked through the airport... I did not notice not one woman give him a second look either... that event however changed my view on Christianity... not all Christians…who follow the directions of love thy neighbor as you would love yourself believe in those words... then… I made my decision when I enter college make my major history…(later more majors followed) I wanted to know…just how has religion played a role in the development of man and what is the truth about the nation that I reside and who really are my people…also …why is it that all wars are based on the issues of religion …the easy behavior of racism and the madness of the expression of this hatred to publicly…regards of whom they effect…pushed me out side of the norm of my culture and my community and but not as a representor of deviate behavior… but willing to stay out the norms that I found weak within my community…there is a greater power…and we need not serve man by selecting a faith…not having a religion does not make you a hater of the most high…just someone who has chosen the higher power over man…for lovers of the ways of man will not love the creator…that is found in Galatians…you will find many lies in your journey for the truth…all you can do is grow and strive for heaven here on earth…as it is in heaven…

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Originally Posted by Starman

Pray tell. What is it that I am denying?
And BTW I haven't gone to any church in more than thirty years.

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That your sect has its share of issues. And BTW Kingdom Hall is a form of church.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That your sect has its share of issues. And BTW Kingdom Hall is a form of church.

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I haven't been to a Kingdom Hall for thirty years.
All sects and all religions have issues. That's common knowledge.
Any other profound truth you wish to reveal for our edification?

So you follow your own brand of religion? We share that. :D

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Originally Posted by LUNAGODDESS

I was on a plane and when I heard a man express his hatred of blacks and then claim his position as a Christian …There were at least four people of black heritage on the plane and three did not respond to this guy…one black woman started laughing...when ask why she'd laugh at this guy instead of calling him out...she said I did...he is a fool and I control the situation...I notice only one other join him…this Christian that hate blacks…others pn the plane including myself just watched for reaction of other blacks...I started to laugh at the guy...I notice that he was not attractive and he looked as if money took a long time to come his way...as I walked through the airport ...I did not notice not one woman give him a second look either...that event however changed my view on Christianity....not all Christians…who follow the directions of love thy neighbor as you would love yourself believe in those words...then… I made my decision when I enter college make my major history…(later more majors followed) I wanted to know…just how has religion played a role in the development of man and what is the truth about the nation that I reside and who really are my people…also …why is it that all wars are based on the issues of religion …the easy behavior of racism and the madness of the expression of this hatred to publicly…regards of whom they effect…pushed me out side of the norm of my culture and my community and but not as a representor of deviate behavior… but willing to stay out the norms that I found weak within my community…there is a greater power…and we need not serve man by selecting a faith…not having a religion does not make you a hater of the most high…just someone who has chosen the higher power over man…for lovers of the ways of man will not love the creator…that is found in Galatians…you will find many lies in your journey for the truth…all you can do is grow and strive for heaven here on earth…as it is in heaven…

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You are right.
Some people go to church simply to socialize, seeking a mate, because their wives or husbands demand it, or even seeking someone to make fall into sin. Others are there not because they love righteousness, but simply because they fear death and want to live.
Others are there in body but their minds strongly crave the world and secretly envy those who go about in a seemingly carefree sinful manner.

Others simply tag themselves as Christians, as you said, and go about discriminating others based on social status, age, sex, race or religion just as they were doing before they tagged themselves as Christians.

So ultimately it is our relationship with God that counts and not what we say we are but who we really are inside and in the eyes of God not humans.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So you follow your own brand of religion? We share that. :D

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The Christian brand of religion since I try to live a Christian life and consider the scriptures inspired.

BTW
Not that church attendance is wrong. In fact we are encouraged to congregate in order to encourage one another in God's service. Only to say that it isn't the infallible litmus test for spiritual maturity as many erroneously believe it is spirituality.

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Originally Posted by Starman

Not that church attendance is wrong. In fact we are encouraged to congregate in order to encourage one another in God's service. Only to say that it isn't the infallible litmus test for spiritual maturity as many erroneously believe it is spirituality.

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I agree 100% and the proof is in how people live, day to day, all the time, especially when no one is looking. I think it's easy to recognise someone who is spiritually mature, especially over time or face to face.

Originally Posted by Starman

"Not that church attendance is wrong. In fact we are encouraged to congregate in order to encourage one another in God's service. Only to say that it isn't the infallible litmus test for spiritual maturity as many erroneously believe it is spirituality."

"I agree 100% and the proof is in how people live, day to day, all the time, especially when no one is looking. I think it's easy to recognise someone who is spiritually mature, especially over time or face to face."

YES! My feelings exactly! I have been thinking about this my entire life. I cannot talk for God or honestly try and understand what he wants. But its my belief he cares more about people who help others day to day with no reward other than the feeling of giving, rather than a person who contemplates the day's to-do list in church. I have been to church a couple of times(2), and while I will in no way quote the bible, mainly because I haven't read it, I do know the ideas behind, or I know the spark noted version :) . I have had many discussions with other religions, not defending christianity but learning theirs and their belief's. From Jewish to Morman, I have heard a lot. And my friend he calls himself an atheist, and I remember talking about it with him with one of my very religious Morman friends. He said that sometimes all he ask's from God is that he show him a sign. Some little movement in his world at that moment that would cure him of his questions. I told him that God isn't asking for knowledge, he is asking for faith. If you KNEW that he existed then there would be no real problems, like you know gravity exists. You don't question gravity because it's factual and documented. You can show it, you can prove it. But God, I believe isn't looking for someone to KNOW he exists, but BELIEVE he exists. He is asking that despite scientific proof, you have faith in him, something that can't be argued or disputed. I can see I am rambling on here... so I will say I agree and good day.

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So ultimately it is our relationship with God that counts and not what we say we are but who we really are inside and in the eyes of God not humans

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I don't care what church you go to, or how often you go, the personal relationship with the God that I understand IS the most important thing in MY life. I can't quote scripture and I don't always agree with the things people do or say, but I let God guide my life. Its not what life does to you but how you react to what it does, that sets the pace for how we live in this world. Strange how happy I've been since I have rejected man's various interpretations, and rules on how to live and left it in the hands of the Creator to show and guide my thoughts and actions.

You got that right Tal, nothing like that "direct connection"! :p

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Originally Posted by Starman

Sorry but my opinion is that the site you find offensive is telling the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan

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The site offers opinions, but unless it was written by Wiccans how can anyone be sure that it represents any individual Wiccanite's experience?

If one is unable to speak the truth without offending someone, then one ought to remain silent. Christians do not cause offence but do as Jesus commanded them to do, which is to "speak the truth with love."


M:)

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speak the truth with love."

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Its a lot easier listening to love as opposed to someone trying to put the fear of God in you, that for sure.

Perfectly said tal... and I see you posted right before me, grrr, but I agree with you again, so no problems...

I agree too. There is definietly a lot of kindness on this thread. Wizzkid I love your signature.

Thank you aqua :)

Yes starman the site is telling the truth, which I would assume most people accept as a fact.

As one who has been invovled with those in seroius cults they can be very dangerous.

And the site posted was not asking anyone to read it, and it was very obvious from the web site what it was. In our daily dealings with people of course we do so with love of each person, but the plain truth as to what is right and wrong by our Christian faith is obvious.

And no it is not judging, since the judgement for this is already given to us, it is merely the understanding of the faith.

For a real Christain there is not two ways to salvation, not several truths, not various levels of right and wrong, Right and truth is a absolute.

I would not walk into a WICCA or other witchcraft ( and there are other groups) and proclaim them all doomed to hell, but if asked I can only tell them the truth.

But in reality they are not the ones to really worry about, since for a Chrsitian it is obvious who they are and what they believe in,

What is the real worry is the weeds that are planted in the good field, those people who pretend to be Christian or call thierself but do nothing but weaken the faith.

It is easy for thost that don't have faith or accept Christianity to call them names, but they have their faith and it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Morganite

The site offers opinions, but unless it was written by Wiccans how can anyone be sure that it represents any individual Wiccanite's experience?

If one is unable to speak the truth without offending someone, then one ought to remain silent. Christians do not cause offence but do as Jesus commanded them to do, which is to "speak the truth with love."


M:)

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Jesus spoke quite forcefully at times and in the process offended scribes and Pharisees and others who simply couldn't stomach his message. If he would have remained silent because he knew people would take offense, as you suggest, then we would have no gospel at all or else a very watered down version. After his death, his followers spoke and offended the people who considered Jesus a blasphemer. They also offended those who wished to practice magic, commit adultery, murder and otherwise break the moral law as set down in the scriptures. Is it accurate then to say they were being rude based on the fact that they offended when they spoke? Or is it instead within the realm of the possible that those who were offended were simply offended with the content and not with the way in which the information was being delivered. Stephan, for example, murdered after he said he saw Jesus at God's right hand. Should he have said it another way? Or was he doomed from the moment that the mob gave its outer garments to Saul? Saul dragged Christians from the churches by their hair. Was he reacting to their rudeness or was he instead reacting to content of their message which to him seemed as heresy? Nero threw Christians to the lions. Was he provoked by Christian rudeness, would he have reconsidered if perhaps the gospel had been presented to him more delicately or is it perhaps possible that he would have fed them to the lions anyway simply because of his deeply ingrained disposition?


When the person in question requested opinions concerning his choice to follow a path which might very well lead him into the practice of magic and the worship of many gods he was told he was right in viewing the biblically based information as wrong and given various reasons that biblically based information deserved to be ignored. Absolutely no concern was shown for any Christian feelings in regard to that advice. Rudeness of expression came up only when an opinion different from the one they were espousing was given. Which of course makes one wonder whether rudeness is really the concern here and not a low level of tolerance for divergent views.

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Originally Posted by Morganite
The site offers opinions, but unless it was written by Wiccans how can anyone be sure that it represents any individual Wiccanite's experience?

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As a person who knows how to do research I'm sure you know how to ascertain that anything said about any religion, idea, concept, represents or doesn't represent the official teachings of the group or organization being spoken of. Whether a person goes along with the official teachings of an organization can't be verified until the person himself gives us info. If the person merely states that he is Roman Catholic, for example, then it is reasonable to assume that he is Roman Catholic. Or if he simply says he is a Mormon, then it is reasonable to take him at his word that he is a Mormon. Or do you have some secret way that I am ignorant of to get past that?

If I were ever to choose a religion to join, it would most likely be what the Dali Lama is in.

He claims the religion he practices is kindness.

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

If I were ever to choose a religion to join, it would most likely be what the Dali Lama is in.

He claims the religion he practices is kindness.

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What really is kindness?
Permitting a person to plow ahead in the wrong direction because one doesn't want to hurt his feelings by showing him the way isn't kindness. If someone had shown me the right way to go I would not have squandered prescious years in ghetto gang activities in which I came close to being killed various times. Neither would my vetabrae be in the condition it is right now due to gang initiation rites. So that kind of I don't want to hurt your feelings so I won't tell you anything kindness or I won't tell you forcefully enough approach because you might whimper kindess I can do without.

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Originally Posted by Starman

Permitting a person to plow ahead in the wrong direction because one doesn't want to hurt his feelings by showing him the way isn't kindness.

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Oddly enough Starman, if you were to know me in person and view what I do, I think you might see that I am not one who needs my awareness level raised about that. I have spent over a decade in a profession that requires that I say some very difficult things to people, but I like to think I say them with kindness and I respect how the person chooses to use the offering from me. But I thank you for your kindly-intended efforts just the same. You see Starman, I believe with all the same conviction you have about yours, that the way I practice is correct for me. Respect closely follows kindness in my book so I will respect your Christian view always and hope that you might reciprocate in kind. If I should ever have a question or interest in Christianity, you'll be one I ask, assuredly.

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

Oddly enough Starman, if you were to know me in person and view what I do, I think you might see that I am not one who needs my awareness level raised about that. But I thank you for your kindly-intended efforts just the same. You see Starman, I believe with all the same conviction you have about yours, that the way I practice is correct for me. Respect closely follows kindness in my book so I will respect your Christian view always and hope that you might reciprocate in kind. If I should ever have a question or interest in Christianity, you'll be one I ask, assuredly.

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Yes, I respect your right to your convictions and would never try to force my views on you. However, if you were to post and ask for opinions on a course of action you were about to take, then I would give my opinion and not expect to be labelled as rude or unkind simply because I gave my opinion as requested. Is that reasonable?