Energy is matter. Matter is energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed. All of the energy that exists today has always existed.

Since energy has always existed there is no need for the first cause.

And Sassy your reaching into topics you don't understand as always and posting information that you know misrepresents someone's position on a subject. Maybe you could spend more time learning instead of spreading misinformation.

Researchers describe how cells take out the trash to prevent disease


"The paper in Developmental Cell, co-authored by Emr with postdoctoral fellows David Teis and Suraj Saksena, describes for the first time how a set of four proteins assemble into a highly ordered complex......"



Just the abstract is evidence of design.


1] how does complex order, that is evident in all of us, come from disorder?

2] What is the "scientific method" that proves that evolution produced this complexity?

3] how did DNA come about?


Now, ID may not be "scientific" but neither is evolution. They both take faith; however, the OSE is that life is very complex and seemingly designed - this is evident in cell biology, molecular biology, physiology.





















g&p

If you're talking about the laws of thermodynamics, then order can form locally as long as there is a larger decrease in order elsewhere (i.e. an energy source). Order is created all the time without life. Think about infalling gas creating a star, or a planetary disk creating a planet. We can observe the formation of a star - is your intelligent designer currently going around creating stars? Can we see him at work? Why does he look so much like what is predicted by gravity?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by inthebox

Researchers describe how cells take out the trash to prevent disease


"The paper in Developmental Cell, co-authored by Emr with postdoctoral fellows David Teis and Suraj Saksena, describes for the first time how a set of four proteins assemble into a highly ordered complex......"



Just the abstract is evidence of design.


1] how does complex order, that is evident in all of us, come from disorder?

2] What is the "scientific method" that proves that evolution produced this complexity?

3] how did DNA come about?


Now, ID may not be "scientific" but neither is evolution. They both take faith; however, the OSE is that life is very complex and seemingly designed - this is evident in cell biology, molecular biology, physiology.

















g&p

---

Yes this is correct. These Dawinists need to keep in mind that when Darwin came up with his scam of a theory, a cell at that time was thought to be a blob with no complexity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michealb

Energy is matter. Matter is energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed. All of the energy that exists today has always existed.

Since energy has always existed there is no need for the first cause.

And Sassy your reaching into topics you don't understand as always and posting information that you know misrepresents someones position on a subject. Maybe you could spend more time learning instead of spreading misinformation.

---

Lol.. except there is one major problem with your belief, A little thing called entropy.
According to the laws of Physics the universe could not have always existed because the second law of thermodynamics tells us everything is running down and dying. Everything around us is degenerating, decaying and dying. If you don't take care of your house, it will collapse from lack of care. Your car will become a chunk of junk. Everything gets old and becomes useless.


So the Universe could not have been here forever because it would have run down in observance to the Second Law. Evolutionists require the Universe to run up which based on observation alone, is far from the reality. Therefor once again your beliefs are based on Faith not natural science.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capuchin

If you're talking about the laws of thermodynamics, then order can form locally as long as there is a larger decrease in order elsewhere (i.e. an energy source). Order is created all the time without life. Think about infalling gas creating a star, or a planetary disk creating a planet. We can observe the formation of a star - is your intelligent designer currently going around creating stars? can we see him at work? why does he look so much like what is predicted by gravity?

---

Lol... Capuchin, what you are saying proves nothing. People create other people every day.. duh :rolleyes: o its like saying "does your intelligent designer currently going around creating babies?" He Created the first man and woman and gave them the ability to procreate and reproduce. God created the planets and the stars and them the ability to reproduce. Reproduction is the order of the day in our universe and it does not necessarity mean God is sitting somewhere with a tool box creating things every second. He created the universe once and gave the Universe the ability to expand and reproduce.

You flat earthers really need to update your information.

The only people that believe in ID are religious people who want to push their religious agenda and will do anything to accomplish their goals. That's why you never see a secular person pushing ID. That's why even a right wing judge said that ID had no scientific merit. After hearing what the grand pupa of ID Michael Behe himself.

Really this is an old augment that you have lost horribly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capuchin

In case you missed it:Which theory are you talking about? I don't believe any scientific theory states such a thing.

---

I am talking about the beliefs of Dawkins, the biggest Dawinistic Zealot. He believes the in spontaneous appearance of hydrogen atoms out of nothing which formed formed some crystals and on the back of those crystals, life began. Sound like a shallow science fiction movie to me :D

All I am trying to point out is, it is impossible to determain the origin of the universe by natural means i.e science.
All the ideas and theories so called scientists come up with, run into HUGE brick walls. Scientist end up with theories that are supernatural and go against fundermental principles of science. Within the bounds of natural law all effects must have a cause. Because of this fact, the spontaneous appearance of matter out of nothing (ex nihilo) is a definite breach of the First Law of Thermodynamics which asserts that matter, under natural circumstances, can neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore, since it is not a natural event, it is by definition a supernatural event-a miracle! This is then a rather weak starting point for a materialistic scenario to begin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sassysback

lol.. except there is one major problem with your belief, A little thing called entropy.
According to the laws of Physics the universe could not have always existed because the second law of thermodynamics tells us everything is running down and dying. Everything around us is degenerating, decaying and dying. If you don't take care of your house, it will collapse from lack of care. Your car will become a chunk of junk. Everything gets old and becomes useless.

So the Universe could not have been here forever because it would have run down in observance to the Second Law. Evolutionists require the Universe to run up which based on observation alone, is far from the reality. Therefor once again your beliefs are based on Faith not natural science.

---

Sassy really you need to stick with what you know answering peoples question about whether they really saw Jesus' face in their buttered toast this morning.

I didn't say the universe has been around forever now did I. I said that the energy in the universe has been around forever. Where the energy was before that is anyone's guess. It could have been in a different universe or our universe could be in a state of expantion and contraction phases. We don't know. The fact that we don't know something doesn't prove god did it. It only proves that we don't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michealb

You flat earthers really need to update your information.

The only people that believe in ID are religious people who want to push their religious agenda and will do anything to accomplish their goals. That's why you never see a secular person pushing ID. That's why even a right wing judge said that ID had no scientific merit. After hearing what the grand pupa of ID Michael Behe himself.

Really this is an old augment that you have lost horribly.

---

Aww... you have run out of intelligent rebutals in defence of your beliefs so now you just resort to insults.. lol Very typical.


Anyway, do you want to continue and intelligent debate or do you just want to continue with your play ground mudd slinging?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michealb

Sassy really you need to stick with what you know answering peoples question about whether they really saw Jesus' face in their buttered toast this morning.

I didn't say the universe has been around forever now did I. I said that the energy in the universe has been around forever. Where the energy was before that is anyones guess. It could have been in a different universe or our universe could be in a state of expantion and contraction phases. We don't know. The fact that we don't know something doesn't prove god did it. It only proves that we don't know.

---

So since you have admittedly told me you pretty have no clue how, when, why life began, what makes you rule out even just the possibility that an intelligent being could have designed this complex universe.
Since there is no natural scientific explation for origin of life, is'nt there even the slightest possibility that there could be a supernatural explanation? Or are you just closed minded to that possibility based on your zealous beliefs in the doctrine that there is nothing supernatural.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sassysback

Or are you just closed minded to that possibility based on your zealous beliefs in the doctrine that there is nothing supernatural.

---

I think he's more open minded actually. It could be an intelligent designer, it could extra-terrestials, it could be electricity mixed with proteins, it could be a small red goat, but he hasn't built a religion around his choice and decided to shun all other possibilities.

As the OP is clearly not willing to even listen to alternative opinions this thread is now CLOSED.