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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Tj3 : in that case I advice you to start your own church organization and become the only "true" existing Christian with the Sabbath on Friday-Saturday.

The rest of all "pseudo" Christians can than keep Sunday as their Sabbath ....

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So far, John, you seem to to be the ONLY person on here claiming Sunday as a Sabbath or as a "do not work" day, and you are not a Christian. Further, so far you have not provided a shred of evidence for your belief that these are Christian doctrines.

BTW, in case you have not been reading - I don't keep the Sabbath - the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ.

Maybe you need to start your own church since you seem to think that you know more about Christianity than Christians (whether they be Catholic, Protestant or other non-Catholic), or indeed God does.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

So far, John, you seem to to be the ONLY person on here claiming Sunday as a Sabbath

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Tommy : the topic is about working on Sundays. I did not bring the Sabbath into this discussion.
All I state is that SUNDAY is the day almost all Christians use as their Sabbath.

Let me make this more clear to you : Sunday : the day when almost all Christian churches have their religious services, the day after Saturday and before Monday.

And why you suggest me to start my own church - while you know I am an Atheist - is asking me to perform some form of blasphemy. No Tommy : I refuse to show that disrespect to Christianity !

I thought you claimed to be a Christian yourself...

:D :D :D :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Tommy : the topic is about working on Sundays. I did not bring the Sabbath into this discussion.
All I state is that SUNDAY is the day almost all Christians use as their Sabbath.

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You talk about the Sabbath in almost every message, claiming that Sunday is the "Christian Sabbath", something which has been refuted by Catholics and non-Catholics alike on here.

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Let me make this more clear to you : Sunday : the day when almost all Christian churches have their religious services, the day after Saturday and before Monday.

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Now we agree - and I said this myself in this thread - what Sunday is, is the day that most churches typically have worship services. That does not mean that we cannot work on Sunday, and that does not make it the Sabbath, though. That is where you appear to be making an unwarranted extrapolation.

And again, if you claim that this IS Christian doctrine, show us the validation for your claim.

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And why you suggest me to start my own church - while you know I am an Atheist - is asking me to perform some form of blasphemy. No Tommy : I refuse to show that disrespect to Christianity !

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Well, John, you see to keep trying to tell all the Christians on here what it is that we are to believe, with no validation other than your own opinion. So it seems that you think that you alone know what Christian beliefs are, and if that is the case then maybe you should start your own church.

On the other hand, you could stop and actually check out what Christian teachings really are.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You talk about the Sabbath in almost every message

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Tommy : I did not even bring up the point of the Sabbath. All I do is reject your personal interpretation of the Sabbath.

As to validation : I live here in an area called a "Bible belt".
In certain villages here people who drill a hole in their wall to hang a picture are told by fundamentals neighbours that they will burn in hell for that...

So don't tell me that Sunday is not more than the day on which Christians normally go to church. For many Christians Sunday is simply the Sabbath!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Tommy : I did not even bring up the point of the Sabbath. All I do is reject your personal interpretation of the Sabbath.

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It was in the OP, and you keep discussing yit based upon your opinion. If you do not want to discuss it, then stop.

You rejected not just my opinion, but the opinions of all Christians who have commented so far as well as what the Bible says. In other words, you have rejected the Christian doctrine in favour of your own and then declared ti to be the Christian position.

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As to validation : I live here in an area called a "Bible belt".
In certain villages here people who drill a hole in their wall to hang a picture are told by fundamentals neighbours that they will burn in hell for that...

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First of all, opinion validates nothing but that that is your opinion. Relating the personal opinions of other validates nothing other than the fact that you claimed it to be true. Neither validates that your claims are Christian doctrine.

Validation of Christian doctrines comes from the standard for Christian doctrine, the Bible, which specifically refutes your claim.

Yes the old thinking was, let's make sin illegal, which did not work out so well, like Prohibition or something. If you make the choice for people, they don't learn to think for themselves. God created us with our own minds and free will. Usually someone who clings to certain beliefs that they can't really explain, like working on Sunday or eating certain foods, that is the mark of a beginner. Not to denigrate that, but as St. Paul wrote, Galatians 4:9--11 why do you keep observing special days and months and seasons and years, have I toiled to no purpose concerning you?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

It was in the OP, and you keep discussing yit based upon your opinion. If you do not want to discuss it, then stop.

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As usual another "untruth" by you, Tommy !
Nowhere in the OP the word "Sabbath" is mentioned. Neither did I bring that word up in the debate.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by wildandblue

.... God created us with our own minds and free will....

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That's what you BELIEVE...

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

As usual another "untruth" by you, Tommy !
Nowhere in the OP the word "Sabbath" is mentioned. Neither did I bring that word up in the debate.

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John, it is hardly worth discussing with you - all you want is an argument. I would go through every post where you mentioned the Sabbath, but just like your claims of a west point magnetic compass and your claims of getting an engineering degree in high school, it won't matter.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

John, it is hardly worth discussing with you - all you want is an argument.

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Tommy, it is hardly worth discussing with you - all you want is an argument.
As stated and all I stated : I did not bring up the word "Sabbath". I only reacted on it.

And please do not play the disappointed Christian here... you are the one who asked me to perform blasphemy on this board... Rather hypocrite in my views...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Tommy, it is hardly worth discussing with you - all you want is an argument.
As stated and all I stated : I did not bring up the word "Sabbath". I only reacted on it.

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John, you are the one who kept pushing the idea that Sunday is Sabbath, and just like the west pointing magnetic compass, and engineering degrees from high school, no matter what the facts are, you keep on pushing it.

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And please do not play the disappointed Christian here... you are the one who asked me to perform blasphemy on this board... Rather hypocrite in my views...

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Without false accusations and abuse, you would have a hard time finding anything to post.

Now to get back on topic. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which says that we are not to work on Sunday.

If anyone wishes to disagree, post the verse.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Now to get back on topic. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which says that we are not to work on Sunday.If anyone wishes to disagree, post the verse.

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You BELIEVE that the bible is the acclaimed word of God. The essence of Christianity is not the bible and it's content. It is belief in God and salvation by Jesus Christ.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

You BELIEVE that the bible is the acclaimed word of God. The essence of Christianity is not the bible and it's content. It is belief in God and salvation by Jesus Christ.

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Christianity is based upon the Bible. That is where learn of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I don't expect youi to BELIEVE that the Bible is the word of God because you BELIEVE that God does not exist.

Yes someone who is an unbeliever can hardly be telling believers what they believe, just what he thinks we think we believe. You are limited by your own argument in that regard.
And Christianity, which was after all begun by Christ, was based on and is considered the fulfillment of the Law. Almost every word Jesus spoke while ministering on earth, He was quoting the Law and the Prophets. So how can the printed word in the Bible not be the same as the essence of Christianity as you state?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Christianity is based upon the Bible. That is where learn of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't expect youi to BELIEVE that the Bible is the word of God because you BELIEVE that God does not exist.

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Oh Tommy : WRONG - wrong as usual!! No, I do not believe that God does not exist.
As a human being with a functional brain capable of observing and logical thinking I do see any OSE for "God's" existence.
And as Secular Humanist I do not need your claimed but OSE unsupported hypothetical "God".
I do not need a supernatural power with lot's of threats and claimed rewards to live my life to the fullest , and stay at the same time a socially moved and moral/ethical human being.

That you apparently need that hypothetical power tells more about you than about me.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by wildandblue

Yes someone who is an unbeliever can hardly be telling believers what they believe

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Wrong again, W&B!! I do not tell anyone what he/she has to believe.
All I say is that when OSE fails to appear all you can do is BELIEVE.
Either you can OSE PROVE that "God" exists, or you BELIEVE that "God" exists.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Oh Tommy : WRONG - wrong as usual!! No, I do not believe that God does not exist.

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Really? That is what you have been saying for as many years as I have known you. Are you now conceding that God does exist?

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As a human being with a functional brain capable of observing and logical thinking I do see any OSE for "God's" existence.

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I see it also!

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And as Secular Humanist I do not need your claimed but OSE unsupported hypothetical "God".

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You have been shown OSE many times over the years by many people, but you refuse to acknowledge it. And in so doing prove that you BELIEVE that God does not exist - something that you cannot prove.

I'm with you, TJ3. The verse from Ecclesiastes comes to mind. A time for every purpose under heaven, a time to seek and a time to give up as lost.
Credo, something you said quite some time ago, you said that if you had to choose you would probably be a Buddhist. Have you checked into that thoroughly, I mean do they even take people who otherwise don't fit in to established belief systems? Sorts of square pegs? Because this sounds vaguely insulting to Buddhism. I'm not putting you on, I really want to know.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Really? That is what you have been saying for as many years as I have known you. Are you now conceding that God does exist?

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Tommy, Tommy : have you now resorted to lying also?

I have never stated that "God" does not exist.
Nor am I conceding that "God" exists.

It is most probable that "God" does not exist, but as Christians can not even prove that "God" exists, there is little chance to prove the far more difficult negative version of that claim.
And as far as I am concerned the onus to prove "God's" existence is on those who claim "God" exists. The need to prove is on the one that claims (in this case "God" exists).
Not on the one who - in view of all lacking evidence - ignores the claimed-to-exist entity.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You have been shown OSE many times over the years by many people, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

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Once again another lie. I have stated again and again : you have NEVER EVER provided any such OSE. Neither has anyone else.

Copy of previous responses on similar wild suggestions from your side :

Tommy777 : I have asked you repeatedly for reposting that list of scientific evidence you claim to have posted over 20 times before on other boards.

However all your reactions so far seem to suggest that either you can't or won't do that . To me that proves that any such scientific "evidence" never existed, and was never posted by you. Indeed you posted over and over a long list with religious claims but without any objective supported evidence for it's correctness. Reason for me to react as many times with the note that it did not contain any scientific support above the level of "A in G" or "ICR" non-scientific babble.

You KNOW that this will happen again if you post the same list once more, and that it is the real reason you refuse to publish it here.

Tom Smith : where in your Bible can I find the Mission Statement to Christians to "Spread the Word" - if needed by lying through your teeth and pure fraud ?

I called your bluff and asked you repeatedly now also here on AMHD to post "once again" your scientific evidence you claim you have posted over 20 times before on other boards.

I will keep doing that from now on till you either admit that your list was not based on scientific evidence, or till you repost that list actually. So expect this message many times from now , at least every time you post your empty claims!

BUT JUST PROVE ME WRONG TOMMY : POST HERE IN REPLY ONCE MORE YOUR LIST OF OSE PROOF OF "GOD'S" EXISTENCE.

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :rolleyes: :D

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