Yeah they seem to move stuff here they feel is going to a debate. Not that they don't have debates there but that is their reasoning and I don't know why they move some and not some others.

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Originally Posted by savedsinner7

"You can please all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

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Now that quote I love. :)

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Now that quote I love.

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I'm sure that these words were originally stated by Abraham Lincoln, another convinced Deist...
May be a second reason why you like it !

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

From my understanding the religious discussion board is for people of all faiths, be it Atheism, Christianity, Deism, whatever.

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My understanding also !

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I normally use the word "I believe",it has become habit while posting around the Desk,but this does not mean that if I were to not use the word,members who do not follow my beliefs will think that I am stating something I do not believe.

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I'm sure you believe everything religious you post. What I hinted at is that you may believe whatever you prefer. But that there is no OSE for any religious claim. So without OSE all religious statements are claims, nothing more. Problem is here that many people think that what they believe is factual reality. And that is not so !

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I understand why anyone of any faith feels defensive of their beliefs in a debate,but prefers to put their point across in a discussion.

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No problem with that. But that is something else than whatever you believe to suggest as an factual reality! Hence the request for "I believe that ..."

;)

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Originally Posted by inthebox

I believe should be about learning about and loving GOD and each other.

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WHY ??? One may believe anything from me, from God to the Pink Unicorn to the Flying Spaghetti Monster to Devil to fairy to Elf etc. etc. etc. There are no restrictions to what one can believe.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

So why would anyone not have to post "I believe that" before posting statements like "God does this or knows that" ???

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Because YOU do not get to order what other people on this board say, and how they say it. If I want to say, "Bigfoot exists", I can say that. There is nothing on the site rules of this board prohibiting me from doing that. I am not REQUIRED to say, "I believe Bigfoot exists." YOU and YOU alone, appear to be the one with the problem of people not saying "I believe". It's YOUR standard, hold YOURSELF to it, and let other people hold themselves to their own standards.

It's a small and petty victory to insist that everyone on this board post "I believe" before they state something to do with their religion. Their beliefs are what they hold true, what is true to them. You don't have to agree with it, but you also don't have to nit-pick (and you do) every single flippin' time someone says something without your stated mandatory preface. Move on, it's gotten old.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

It's YOUR standard, hold YOURSELF to it

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Ok. I always hold myself to that. If I claim something I can not provide OSE for, I state "I believe that ..." , or "It is my view that ..." or something similar.

If people here keep refusing to indicate to that same "I believe" before their claims, then they should stop moaning every time I react to their wild claims with "You BELIEVE that !"
But that they won't : they keep moaning about that.

If I have to accept their wild claims, they will have to accept my "You BELIEVE that" corrections ! It is as simple as that !

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Their beliefs are what they hold true, what is true to them.

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Precisely. But is it "true"? The lacking OSE says No, No, and No again !

:rolleyes:

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Cred, when you insist on others following your set standard of communication, you alienate them. We all know that you disagree with what we believe, but to continue to tell us that it's what we believe when we've said it is redundant.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Ok. I always hold myself to that. If I claim something I can not provide OSE for, I state "I believe that ..." , or "It is my view that ..." or something similar.

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You do always hold yourself to that, I never said you didn't. But again, it is YOUR standard, not someone else's. Why do we all have to post to your standards?

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If people here keep refusing to indicate to that same "I believe" before their claims, then they should stop moaning every time I react to their wild claims with "You BELIEVE that !"
But that they won't : they keep moaning about that.

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Well that's rather arrogant of you, don't you think? If people don't do what I want them to (when I have no authority over them) they should just deal with me being a pain? Pssst... your maturity is showing (and it doesn't look good).

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If I have to accept their wild claims, they will have to accept my "You BELIEVE that" corrections ! It is as simple as that !

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And that, right there is where your logic and argument FAILS. You don't have to accept their wild claims, you just have to accept that they aren't going to post according to your "rules". You do know that just because you read "God exists" it doesn't mean you actually have to agree with it, right? That you have to accept it? You're accepting the way they post not what they say. Big difference.

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Precisely. But is it "true"? The lacking OSE says No, No, and No again !

:rolleyes:

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So what? So what if there is no OSE? Maybe it's not important to them. News flash - what is important to you isn't important to everyone else. That's why it is their truth, not yours. How about you complain when they force their beliefs on you, force you to live according to their religion, instead of complaining when they force you to read a statement that doesn't begin with "I believe"?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I guess the main question is, what does everyone expect to gain from discussing their beliefs? Is it knowledge, is it curiosity, or is it just to stick up for your belief?

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Ask first, what do you expect to gain in discussion of their belief or your belief? Are you curious? Or is it to permit your own thought in mind to agree with your heart?

Most readers agree that a rejection of the mind is also not permitted in the heart.

God sents strong delusion to any who's thoughts are negative so that they reap their own choice. A positive mind leads to a positive heart.. Harmony

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Ask first, what do you expect to gain in discussion of their belief or your belief? Are you curious? Or is it to permit your own thought in mind to agree with your heart?

Most readers agree that a rejection of the mind is also not permitted in the heart.

God sents strong delusion to any who's thoughts are negative so that they reap their own choice. A positive mind leads to a postive heart.. Harmony

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What do I expect? I would like to discuss others points of view on God, even others points of view that there is no God, just open discussion about their beliefs and why they believe, their thoughts and the choices they've made and why they made those choices.

I know what I believe and why, and I just recently found a name to describe what I believe, before that I thought I was alone in my beliefs.

I do know why so many times a discussion goes bad. As a Christian you are in the majority for what you believe, in a room full of people chances are you will find many people with the same beliefs as you. If I am in a room full of people I usually stand alone in my beliefs, the same goes for Atheists.

After defending our beliefs against people for so long it becomes second nature to go into any discussion being defensive because you expect to be outnumbered. I'm not saying is us against you, but it does feel like that many times. Perhaps you'd feel differently if you were in the minority.

I just want to discuss, unfortunately I do have to say that most times I am ready for a fight, not because I want to fight, but because I expect a fight. When I write on the Religious discussion board I spend allot of time thinking about what I want to write, I don't want to offend anyone, yet I still want to state what is on my mind, allot of the time that leads to someone taking it as a challenge to prove their belief, and I admit that I have not yet learned to back down when I feel challenged.

I for one would like to try to discuss things, but I don't know if it's possible, perhaps we are all too different and set in our ways and beliefs, discussion requires relaxing your guard, being willing to see another point of view, it's possible if everyone gets on board.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

What do I expect? I would like to discuss others points of view on God, even others points of view that there is no God, just open discussion about their beliefs and why they believe, their thoughts and the choices they've made and why they made those choices.

I know what I believe and why, and I just recently found a name to describe what I believe, before that I thought I was alone in my beliefs.

I do know why so many times a discussion goes bad. As a Christian you are in the majority for what you believe, in a room full of people chances are you will find many people with the same beliefs as you. If I am in a room full of people I usually stand alone in my beliefs, the same goes for Atheists.

After defending our beliefs against people for so long it becomes second nature to go into any discussion being defensive because you expect to be outnumbered. I'm not saying is us against you, but it does feel like that many times. Perhaps you'd feel differently if you were in the minority.

I just want to discuss, unfortunately I do have to say that most times I am ready for a fight, not because I want to fight, but because I expect a fight. When I write on the Religious discussion board I spend allot of time thinking about what I want to write, I don't want to offend anyone, yet I still want to state what is on my mind, allot of the time that leads to someone taking it as a challenge to prove their belief, and I admit that I have not yet learned to back down when I feel challenged.

I for one would like to try to discuss things, but I don't know if it's possible, perhaps we are all too different and set in our ways and beliefs, discussion requires relaxing your guard, being willing to see another point of view, it's possible if everyone gets on board.

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Alt,
You know we have discussed this in previous posts. All I can add is, when we are discussing a religious topic each person is going to base their comments on what they know and their personal experience.

It bothers me that people don't understand that having strong belief in something doesn't mean you have to believe it.

OP- When you discuss a broad topic of Religion.. if you don't define your topic you should expect that everyone from every religion will weigh in on what they think/believe. To expect anything less is ridiculous.

I am beginning to wonder why you continue to post here since most of what you have posted seems to be geared towards inciting people. When someone has a valid argument you derail your own thought and go off in another direction. Much of what I will expect from this new thread.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

What do I expect? I would like to discuss others points of view on God, even others points of view that there is no God, just open discussion about their beliefs and why they believe, their thoughts and the choices they've made and why they made those choices.

I know what I believe and why, and I just recently found a name to describe what I believe, before that I thought I was alone in my beliefs.

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When I expect something from others that I want to hear, I would go where I can find conversation pretaining to what I expect and want. It just happens to be my expectation is different then yours if we are to talk about religion. I am not here to force someone into something I expect. But I am also not here to have someone force me into accepting what they believe.

My mind rejects what I hear as wrong.. And I am sure your mind does the same. There are times when I hear, for an example, church teachings by man, and I reject those teaching if they suggest man's teaching is above God's. I feel we are limited to our choice when it comes to God. You either do or don't believe, and you either do or don't put God first above all else.

Anything rejected by the mind is then rejected by the heart. If we took a depressed person and tried to inject joy, you would find that impossible to do. Their choice in their mind is of the negative, you can not choose for someone else, and their heart will display that same negative. The opposite is the same...

Should someone be in struggle with their mind and heart, I suppose they then question both sides of what life offers. Things have a way of working out, when the heart is given opportunity, because I trust when your hearts holds love, that love is the greatest of emotions.

Credendo,

Believers who take their scriptures literally-not symbolically-would be best served to say,"I believe my religion is the truth". They are gracious enough to imply that they understand that other people don't think that their religion is the truth.

In fact, there is no reason to argue after a statement like that, unless one likes to argue about religion or scriptures.

Since I am an atheist/secular humanist, I am just going to say that I have no interest in any talk concerning topics that imply the possible existence of a supernatural world.

And actually, I'm not interested in discussion anything about religion at this time!! :D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

WHY ??? One may believe anything from me, from God to the Pink Unicorn to the Flying Spaghetti Monster to Devil to fairy to Elf etc. etc. etc. There are no restrictions to what one can believe.

:rolleyes:

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Its ironic :cool: that on a religious board, you are surprised that people believe in God.

Hey, just for you, I wrote bolded and prefaced it with "believe." ;)


Major Religions Ranked by Size


Will you not be satisfied till no one "believes" in God :confused:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Will you not be satisfied till no one "believes" in God

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Not at all. It is my opinion that everyone is free to believe whatever they believe.

AND YOU KNOW THAT VERY WELL - so why statements like yours here?

As to being satisfied on the point of religious approach : that will be the moment believers will admit that everything they believe is belief, that the reality of what they believe is not reality but belief. Even for their own beliefs.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Choux

Believers who take their scriptures literally-not symbolically-would be best served to say,"I believe my religion is the truth". They are gracious enough to imply that they understand that other people don't think that their religion is the truth.

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Although I understand how you mean that, my point is : if it is truth or not is only possible to know if discussion on the basics is possible, i.e. when dogma is no longer the central core of religion.
Where are the real religious discussions - on this board or anywhere else? Discussions on the essence of religion?
All I see is dogma, lack of any OSE, and many very long toes !

;)

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

As to being satisfied on the point of religious approach : that will be the moment believers will admit that everything they believe is belief, that the reality of what they believe is not reality but belief. Even for their own beliefs.
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When will you realize that belief is reality to most people?

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Originally Posted by Smoked

When will you realize that belief is reality to most people?

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Incorrect : they BELIEVE it is reality. But is it ? That only can be concluded from the provided support.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

You do always hold yourself to that, I never said you didn't. But again, it is YOUR standard, not someone else's. Why do we all have to post to your standards?



Well that's rather arrogant of you, don't you think? If people don't do what I want them to (when I have no authority over them) they should just deal with me being a pain? Pssst... your maturity is showing (and it doesn't look good).



And that, right there is where your logic and argument FAILS. You don't have to accept their wild claims, you just have to accept that they aren't going to post according to your "rules". You do know that just because you read "God exists" it doesn't mean you actually have to agree with it, right? That you have to accept it? You're accepting the way they post not what they say. Big difference.




So what? So what if there is no OSE? Maybe it's not important to them. News flash - what is important to you isn't important to everyone else. That's why it is their truth, not yours. How about you complain when they force their beliefs on you, force you to live according to their religion, instead of complaining when they force you to read a statement that doesn't begin with "I believe"?

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STANDING OVATION