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It doesn't mean God didn't care because God gives us our free will no matter how foolishly we use it we have to live with the consequences.
If you are drowning and somebody reaches out to save you and you say no thank you I am trusting God to get me out of this it is not God's fault. He proved us with knowledge and options to use.
It wasn't the girls choice, it was the parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
And??
That makes it worse I would think because like I said earlier the child didn't have a choice so the parents should be making the choice for her to live. They should not be gambling with her life.
Excellent post, I want to make some comments. I also want to say that I did not read anybody else's response yet.
These stories sickens me. Yes, it is good to have faith and pray. At the same time, I can point to many bible passages that speak about how the sick are in need of doctors. Doctors have been given the skill and gift to help and heal sick people. That is why they are there.
There are other books of the bible that mention about doctors and how we should rely on them when we are sick, does not mean we are lacking faith.
Why do people have to prove their faith to others by killing their children. It is manslaughter as far as I am concerned and each of these people who insist on no medical treatment should be charged.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
This is so twisted it's not even funny. Your telling me that if you had the power to prevent this little girls death, you wouldn't have because her parents were stupid??Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
That's absurd on so many levels. There is no good reason for an all powerful, loving, caring God to watch something like that happen.
No I never said anything like that!
I said the parents are misguided and they should have never done anything like that.
I said they should have been responsible and got her help to try and save her life.
I said a child is at the mercy of the parents and they made the wrong decision.
I said that their stupidity is not God's fault because he gave us free will.
Exactly, God LET the girl die because the PARENTS were stupid. I didn't have a problem reading what you said, I had a problem with the logic of what I read. Free will is not the issue here because the person who died is not the person who desided not to go to the hospital.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
The parents had the free will to get the child help and they did not.
The parents let the child die.
God did not let anybody die onan, That is full of crap.
Each individual is responsible for their own actions.
Stop passing the buck. The only ones that were responsible for the girls death were the parents.
That is the end of that. There should not be any argument or discussion it is a fact.
It was the PARENTS who didn't take the kid to the hospital, the GIRL didn't have a choice.Quote:
Each individual is responsible for their own actions.
I'm not, GOD let her die. If this wasn't true, she would be alive.Quote:
Stop passing the buck.
This is exactly how the parent's thought. Which humans should recognize is WRONG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
Onan, if your child had a broken arm would you do nothing and just let God heal it?
But if this is not the case then why are there such things as prayers circles? What's the point of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJ
I did not notice Onan's previous posts... I see now he is not advocating doing nothing.
Sorry if this counts as a tangent (I can't decide)...
If you believe in the Christian Heaven and Hell system, which one do you believe these parents would go to?
I can't believe anyone could be capable of watching their child die. And if it was diabetes I, then that is a particularly nasty way to go.
Scary stuff...
So you decide what is god's will now? God is suppose to be all powerful. If I had the power to protect the innocent, I would be required to use it. If I saw a man beating a child and I knew I could prevent that man from beating that child but instead I walked away and did nothing it would be just as much my will that the child be beaten as the man that was beating the child in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
When you have absolute power over everything. Then everything that happens is your will.
Hi onan, have to disagree with you there the parents were given the choice of accepting a cure for their daughter just as I was for my son, I chose the cure because as I have previously said I believe these cures are there for us to discover and use for our benefit, the parents of this child declined.
There are many things that we are responsible for, one of which is WAR another FAMINE and so on, this is MAN hurting himself we aii have FREE WILL to do what we choose and stand by those decisions.
If you take the religious angle you could say that God had already intervened by providing the emergency services, hospital care and medication to cure this child, if religion had not been an issue with this family they would have taken their child to hospital as a matter of course, in both instances there is provision for cure depending how you look at it but still this family chose to ignore any provision for cure no matter what the origin.
They have total tunnel vision obviously inflicted by their religion which in my opinion is wrong, many rules have been added by man for want of power, you don't need a set of rules for believing in the good guy upstairs your own heart tells you the difference between right and wrong, good and bad and I'm sure deep down human intuition was whispering for them to go to the hospital but for fear of what might happen if they did they chose to ignore it.
Exactly Orphan
God warns us that his people die for lack for knowledge
God says be wise and use good judgment and not be foolish
God created natural laws WITH consequences. You trip-you fall, you don't take care of yourself your health reflects that.
If a parent wants to exercise their faith they should do it on their own self not an innocent child. They can jump off a roof or jump out in front of a hungry tiger to see if they have that faith they think they have.
Just seeing all the children die in the Jehovah Witness church should tell you if your child gets sick get the necessary care.
If having faith in God means neglect to prove faith then a Christian parent should be able to let their two year old child go play in traffic and just trust God that it won't get hit with a Mac truck.
Personally I believe that God made herbs for our healing and that should be the first resort before the doctor if and when possible but I believe you are responsible for the diligent care of your child no matter what.
Why do they have prayer circles? Most prayer circles I have been in pray "Lord direct the doctor on healing the child during surgery and have the child well and happy and able to continue with their life and touch the child. Thank you for the doctors."
I wish ETW was here because he explains it best!
Exactly, I don't believe a God had anything to do with it at all. I think the parents should both go to prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJ
HOWEVER,,
If I was to believe in an all powerful God, I would say he could have easily/should have done something to let the child live. Punishing a child for doing nothing wrong is just as bad as the parents not taking the kid to the hospital.
The free will argument is boloney and they know it. It's absurd because the person who died was never given a chance by her parents or by God. Where in the Bible does it say free will is taken from someone because of someone else's stupidity? We are to believe God gave us free will but it does not apply to the child because she died? It doesn't apply to the child because her parents were morons? That by no means is the attitude of an all loving and caring God, in fact it would suggest the exact opposite. I guarantee if the child had somehow survived the ordeal God would have been given the credit. What about the children who die by the hand of their parents from child abuse? What about the children who die from other forms of crimes? What is the excuse for that? The point is there are way too many things that happen to innocent children, and this case is no different. The free will crap does not apply here because the child's death had nothing to do with HER free will at all. I find it very offensive that someone would even suggest the child died because of her PARENTS free will.
I will leave this alone though because as a parent this subject is getting me way too worked up. As a father I would do anything for my kids to keep them healthy and to keep them from harm. I would expect even more from a "heavenly father".
Just one more thing.
The free will idea presents another problem. Even as stupid as it was, the parents used their free will to believe in God and that he can do all things asked of him. Isn't that what were supposed to do believe? So not only did God let a child die needlessly, he has also turned his back on obvious believers.
You think we should let this free will crap die now?
That's the danger if you are in false prophets and false religion.
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