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Originally Posted by michealb

umm the greeks measured the circumference of the earth long before the bible was even written and almost all sea faring cultures knew that the earth was round because they would see the masts of ships before they saw the hull of the ship. It was only the church that for some reason got the idea that the world was flat and made everyone believe it.

Earth Circumference Measurement by Posidonius

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Thousands years before greeks measured the earth it is written in the bible. I agreed to marvin. I read the bible if it comes to me that the bible is advanced. There's a science in the bible, medical, history, and even engineering.

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Originally Posted by grammy2x

Bravo, the first perfect human being ever! Pardon me for trying to answer and not being of any help, when obviously you don't need it, good for you. Good luck to you.

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Why so negative? I never suggested to be perfect. You do that! I just tried to convey to you that also non-believers can be "good" people, and do not need any help because of their world view.
I fear you must wear size 68 shoes to allow for your long toes...
;)

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

grammy,
I believe he may have taken your "maybe life itself will make more sense to you" somewhat personally (apologies to Credendovidis if I got that wrong).

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No, you got that spot on !
:)

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Originally Posted by grammy2x

... and that he was just challenging Christians to prove what we believe with our hearts without having to have scientific proof. You either believe or you don't...

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Now you're talking! ;)
No I am NOT challenging Christians to PROVE what they BELIEVE.
All I state is that you may BELIEVE whatever you BELIEVE, but than do not CLAIM that what you BELIEVE is the ONE AND ONLY TRUTH, because that CLAIM is something that you have to PROVE to be true!!
;)

Now how can we honestly give any other reply to the topic question "How can we prove the Bible is factual? " than "No, you can not prove that. You can only BELIEVE that! "?
;)

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Besides that Christianity did everything in it´s power to prevent the scientific evidence of a spherical earth to be communicated freely, the fact that the earth was a sphere was wellknown long before it was introduced in anyone of the bible stories.
Nobody required apollo 11 or any other rocketry to see that the earth was a sphere. All that was required to see that was an open mind.
:rolleyes:

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Many people way back thuosands of years believes that the earth was flat,but is alreadywritten in the bible. To prove the Bible is factual. In history of asyria, they don't believe that they have a king named king sargon. But king sargon was mentioned in the bible. In our time archeologist found a stone tablet where king sargon pictured in that stone. Even archeology the bible is write. The bible is complete in history than the asyrian history.

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Originally Posted by addaddadd

Many people way back thuosands of years believes that the earth was flat,but is alreadywritten in the bible. To prove the Bible is factual. In history of asyria, they dont believe that they have a king named king sargon. But king sargon was mentioned in the bible. in our time archeologist found a stone tablet where king sargon pictured in that stone. even archeology the bible is write. The bible is complete in history than the asyrian history.

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All you can prove at best are individual claims in the Bible to be correct.
But for the Bible as Bible to be factual you have to prove that God exists, that God is the Almighty, that the Bible is God's word, that Genesis is factual, etc. etc. etc.
And nobody can objectively prove that. So the honest answer is NO : you can not prove the Bible to be factual! All you can do is BELIEVE the Bible to be factual.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

All you can prove at best are individual claims in the Bible to be correct.
But for the Bible as Bible to be factual you have to prove that God exists, that God is the Almighty, that the Bible is God's word, that Genesis is factual, etc. etc. etc.
And nobody can objectively prove that. So the honest answer is NO : you can not prove the Bible to be factual! All you can do is BELIEVE the Bible to be factual.
:rolleyes:

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In Genesis, God created heavens and earth, now you can see heaven and earth. God said, let there be light, and there was light. You can see light. Who among people that can claimed that they created heaven its only God.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Please understand that I am not attacking you at all.
.
For your information : I am a freethinking Secular Humanist.
I do not hate anyone.
I do not hate religion or religious people.
I never killed or physically hurt anyone.
I do not misuse children, women, or any other human being.
I do not harm animals.
I do not drink alcohol, I don't smoke, I do not do drugs.
I pay my taxes and my bills.
I love my Christian wife, my children, and my grandchildren.
I am a honest, open, non-aggressive, rather intelligent guy.
I have a 30 years experience in teaching children in the third world.
I am member of an international emergency assistance team.
I am an unpaid volunteer with mentally handicapped children, and volunteer in a hospice for terminal patients
There is nothing wrong with me.
So with what and why would you try to help me?
.
All I tried to do is show that Oxman's topic "How can we prove the Bible is factual" makes no sense, as there is no way anyone can prove the Bible is factual, simply because the entire Bible and the religion based on the Bible is based on BELIEF and nothing else.
:rolleyes:

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If you don't believe in God its up to you. It is not a sin to believe in God.anyway There will be a judgment day. "People will believe in God if they are in the time of dying, They will call God"

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Originally Posted by addaddadd

Thousands years before greeks measured the earth it is writen in the bible. I agreed to marvin. I read the the bible if it comes to me that the bible is advanced. theres a science in the bible, medical, history, and even engineering.

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Really so the new testament was written thousands of years before the greeks, who were before the Romans who were the ones that killed Jesus which the new testament about.

There is science in the bible but it's science that is almost 2000 years old. The science in the bible was common knowledge to the people of that time. It would be like you writing a book about things that are common knowledge now and after 2000 years and a dark ages cause by religious oppression(where the church burned all the real science books of the time by the way). People going, look if you change the words around and you do things like assume that when he said circle he really meant globe, this guy was right. He must have been inspired by god.

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Originally Posted by addaddadd

If you dont believe in God its up to you. It is not a sin to believe in God.anyway There will be a judgment day. "People will believe in God if they are in the time of dying, They will call God"

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Ahh the classic death threat from Christians. If I had a nickel for every time a Christian wished me ill I'd be a very rich man.

The Bible (Old Testament) contridicts itself in the first two chapters of Genesis. God supposedly created man in his likeness on the 6th day. In Genesis 2, he created man in his likeness to take care of the animals on Earth, So which was it,, on the 6th day or sometime after the 6th day.
It goes on and on like that. Where did all of the women come from that Cain's sons married?

I am a bit of a skeptic. It sounds like a story book and nothing has been scientifically proven.

The Bible like all "sacred scriptures" of the world's religions is about the *SUPERNATURAL*.

There is no proof of a supernatural... that is gods, demons, devils, satan, imps, and all other characters associated with what primitive people thought about how the natural world worked because they had *no knowledge* about how the Universe functioned.

That does not mean that many people don't derive much pleasure from their beliefs in a supernatural in the face of a real world full of unhappiness and death as well as joy and love.

To further illustrate, probably the three greatest American archaeologists of the twentieth century each had their liberal training modified by their archaeological work


Lost Worlds

Some interesting viewing / reading

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Originally Posted by michealb

Ahh the classic death threat from Christians. If I had a nickle for everytime a Christian wished me ill I'd be a very rich man.

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Its not a death threat it is reality some of us will die maybe now, tomorrow or next next year. It is a christian faith some of us will die. And christian are not afraid in death.

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Originally Posted by addaddadd

In Genesis, God created heavens and earth, now you can see heaven and earth. God said, let there be light, and there was light. you can see light. Who among people that can claimed that they created heaven its only God.

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What kind of "proof" is that? It was obvious to even our most primitive ancestors when they just fell out of the trees, that there was a kind of "blue dome" over the world (with lights at night) that was called heaven in many different words by different religions for thousands of years prior to the first letter of the Bible ever having been written.
That that "heaven" and earth existed was nothing special, and was for everyone to see. The only real difference was the new meaning of that "dome", the meaning of "heaven", and the lacking support for linking these two by Judaism, and later by Christianity.
.
The claim that God created heaven is a Christian claim, and I have never seen any objective support for that claim, OTHER THAN BELIEF!
.
I suggest that you look up the meaning of "objective".
.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by addaddadd

Its not a death threat it is reality some of us will die maybe now, tommorow or next next year. It is a christian faith some of us will die., And christian are not afraid in death.

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I do not know any non-believer who is afraid of death. What is there to be afraid off?
You sleep in, never to awake again.
The only reason I do not look forward to that moment is that I like to be there for my wife, my children, and my grandchildren, and enjoy their presence.
I do not fear death. Many Christians do. They fear the wrath of god. They fear "Final Judgment". They fear for what they BELIEVE to be true. But there is no objective proof supporting these claims really to exist.
:rolleyes:

Back to my earlier basic point made about the question in this topic :
.
All you can prove at best are individual claims in the Bible to be correct.
But for the Bible as Bible to be factual you have to prove that God exists, that God is the Almighty, that the Bible is God's word, that Genesis is factual, etc. etc. etc.
And nobody can objectively prove that. So the honest answer to the topic question is NO : you can not prove the Bible to be factual! All you can do is BELIEVE the Bible to be factual.
:rolleyes:

Credendovidis, You must believe in the bible, Even you is in the bible. Psalms14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God;They are corrupt, theyhave done abominable works, there is none that doeth good" People Believing there is no God They the doers of abominable works. The bible stated there is non believer in God. The bible is very factual because even you is in the bible. All your question on Faith the bible can answer.

There you have it, another 'good' christian calling another person a fool simply for having a different viewpoint than his.