Ask Me Help Desk - Saving a Loved One

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Some Christians say there is a literal hell,

I understand that the bible can be interpreted in many different ways, and that's what I'm trying to get at (my motive for this question is not evil like some insist it is).

I just want to know that if someone who's interpretation is that there is a real heaven and hell that we all go to when we die, if that person is wrong to try and ensure a loved one going to heaven. This seems perfectly reasonable to me given such an interpretation. In fact, it would seem unreasonable and downright selfish for a loving parent to do anything else!

Maybe this will help answer whatever it is you are getting at
But it is written from a pro-life anti abortion perspective mostly'

Circle of Prayer - The Sanctity of Life

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobrobster

I just want to know that if someone who's interpretation is that there is a real heaven and hell that we all go to when we die, if that person is wrong to try and ensure a loved one going to heaven.

If a person kills an innocent child because he/she wants to ensure that child a place is heaven, that person is wrong, and seriously mentally ill if they go through with it.

Yes, it's wrong to kill a child solely on the pretense that the child will go to heaven.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobrobster

I understand that the bible can be interpreted in many different ways

A poem can be interpreted in many different ways, but that does not mean it's what the author intended.

The Bible can also be interpreted in many different ways, but that does not mean it's what God wants. Many verses are interpreted out of context, i.e. apart from the verses surrounding them that help in their comprehension. The historical and cultural contexts are also important in understanding the Bible.

The NT says women are to be silent in the church. Of course, that verse has opened up all sorts of problems for Christians. Again, context is needed to understand what St. Paul meant--and total understanding still may be missing.

Just because I might believe women are not to utter a sound while in church doesn't mean it's true, just like your example of the mother who kills her kids. The Bible also says, "Thou shalt not kill."

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Look, Rob, why don't you tell us what you want us to say......

You want us to justify killing innocent children?

I want you to justify why it shouldn't be done given a specific interpretation of the bible. And not only have you failed to do so, you can't even manage to stay on point. You find it more convenient to muddy the waters by bringing up completely unrelated topics like mental health issues, etc. Here's why this subject is so important...

You cannot fault somebody else for following through on their unsubstantiated interpretations, just because they don't agree with your own unsubstantiated interpretations (or because you're just not as willing to follow through on them as they are).

So I want to find out if: Is a mother who kills her child, or a man who flies a plane into a building, or another who chops off a person's head for apostacy, are they really acting in a more noble manner than someone who is liberal in their beliefs? At least they (the fundamentalists), are FIRM enough in their beliefs and convictions that they are willing to see them through to the ultimate conclusion. In a way, I respect that more than I do someone who says they belief such and such, yet doesn't live as if they do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The Bible can also be interpreted in many different ways, but that does not mean it's what God wants.

Thanks wondergirl, and I know you're trying to be helpful and answer my question. I'm not for a minute saying that God would want a mother to kill her child. Not at all. I'm merely asking if she were to do so, would that guarantee this child's eternal fate according to some interpretations of the bible? And if so, what logical reason can we provide to stop her from doint so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobrobster

At least they (the fundamentalists), are FIRM enough in their beliefs and convictions that they are willing to see them through to the ultimate conclusion.

And firmness of belief is a GOOD thing, no matter what the belief?

AS wondergirl said anybody can interpret the Bible anyway they want but ONLY God has absolute truth and some come close to having it right BUT killing your kids so they automatically go to heaven is far from the Bible taken as a whole teaching.
You might try asking on the Jewish Board. I believe ETWolverine might be able to give you a good answer to the sanctity to life question better. Of course it would be better to give the question from a Jewish mother instead if you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobrobster

Thanks wondergirl, and I know you're trying to be helpful and answer my question. I'm not for a minute saying that God would want a mother to kill her child. Not at all. I'm merely asking if she were to do so, would that guarantee this child's eternal fate according to some interpretations of the bible? And if so, what logical reason can we provide to stop her from doint so?

You're welcome.

If the interpretation is incorrect, her "efforts" would be worthless. The Bible has to be interpreted as a whole. It also says, as I mentioned in an earlier post, don't kill.

I suspect logic would not be what she is looking for, so any logical reason would be outside of her experience and reasoning. Logic would not stop her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

If a person kills an innocent child because he/she wants to ensure that child a place is heaven, that person is wrong, and seriously mentally ill if they go through with it.

Yes, it's wrong to kill a child solely on the pretense that the child will go to heaven.

This one is MY fault. Sorry. I KNOW that person is wrong. My question is, what should stop them if it will save their loved one's soul?

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Of course it would be better to give the question from a Jewish mother instead if you do.

You are just as cute as ever! ET would love it!

I think we have explained it well but then they say Mozart, or was it Beethovan,:D :D couldn't TEACH music !:D

You keep using the word logic. If religion is about believing in an unseen anything, than that really isn't logical to begin with is it? So we are dealing with a woman's personal belief. There's no real logic in that. Heaven and hell aren't tangible.

Plus this woman only assumes that her children are good little kiddies. But how does she know that little Johnny doesn't play doctor with his sister? The woman is in fault because she claims to know the religious minds of her own children.

If all of this was tangible, and not based off a subjective belief. She might have a case. But then again... if she claims to be a good Christian woman, she would know that humans have free will. And she is taking that away from her children by killing them. She isn't just committing a religious sin. She is breaking a law of man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And firmness of belief is a GOOD thing, no matter what the belief?

I didn't say it was a good thing... I said it was noble.

Say what you want about those hijackers on 9/11. What they did was insanely hideously and wrong. But they certainly were not cowards! They were acting in firm conviction of their beliefs. And I see this mother in the same way... If one REALLY believes their child will face an eternal heaven and hell. How can it be anything but a noble act to sacrifice her soul for that of her children?

Yes, you did. What's the difference between "good" and "noble"?

Originally Posted by lobrobster
At least they (the fundamentalists), are FIRM enough in their beliefs and convictions that they are willing to see them through to the ultimate conclusion.

You aren't reading the very reasonable responses you are being given. Or aren't thinking about them.

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Originally Posted by mafiaangel180

Plus this woman only assumes that her children are good little kiddies. But how does she know that little Johnny doesn't play doctor with his sister? The woman is in fault because she claims to know the religious minds of her own children.

So far, I find this to be the first legitimate attempt to answer my question. THANK YOU!

Ok... So she can never be sure about her children's chances of going to heaven. YES! That would be a "legitimate" reason not to carry through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Yes, you did. What's the difference between "good" and "noble"?

Originally Posted by lobrobster
At least they (the fundamentalists), are FIRM enough in their beliefs and convictions that they are willing to see them through to the ultimate conclusion.

You aren't reading the very reasonable responses you are being given. Or aren't thinking about them.

LOL! You quoted me to prove I used the word "good", but didn't quote the part where I actually used the word, "good".? I suppose the two words share some meanings. I meant noble in the "distinguished" sense. I would never say killing a child, or flying planes into building was "good".

So, killing a child is noble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So, killing a child is noble.

I think sacrificing your soul to save someone's else's is a noble act. Yes.

It's my understanding that according to Christian beliefs, this life is but a pit stop on the road to eternal glory. If one truly believe this, why would they care about taking a life? (in fact, you might want to notice that this is exactly how people are acting in other parts of the world right now).

Now I don't believe this!. But I'm trying to find out why those that do, have such a problem with such an act. Even if you've prevented a life from reaching the ripe old age of 90, that is completely insignificant when compared to eternity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobrobster

I think sacrificing your soul to save someone's else's is a noble act. Yes.

No. You didn't answer my question. Killing a child is a noble act?

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But I'm trying to find out why those that do, have such a problem with such an act.

Um, we've told you what we think and believe. Is this question up to five pages yet?

Apparently you want an answer that no one has lucked onto yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobrobster

So far, I find this to be the first legitimate attempt to answer my question. THANK YOU!

Ok... So she can never be sure about her children's chances of going to heaven. YES! That would be a "legitimate" reason not to carry through.

Well, OK then, there you go. Question answered. Phew! I sure am glad that's over.