You Just... Believe


I cannot give any facts about how truthful the Bible is. Part of the aspects on being a Christian is faith. You just believe and trust that it is true.
And what is so wrong about having faith and trusting there is something greater than us?
My answer would be this: I can stare at my computer desk for a million years and it will never come to life. Something or someone has to create life. You cannot get life from death but we know you can get death from life.

If I believe in God and I am wrong... that is it I am dead (never existed) but...
If one chooses not to believe... and they are wrong, well I would not want to be in their shoes.

What is so wrong about believing in God? I think I will choose my picture now. I wondered what I would choose. SteveWard3928

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Originally Posted by buzzman

But he Bible is also considered to be a historical record of its own. It represents the Geneology of Jesus from His prophisised birth the the end of His life and beyond the setting up of His church. So to a Christian, it is a history book. Why do we call 2008"AD" if he did not exist on this earth. As most know "AD" stands for "After Death". After "Jesus's" death. Is that not factual?

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The reason why christians get told they are wrong more than others is because you're the majority. Being the majority you make the laws and the history books because of this even though I'm not christian I need to know what crazy plan you all are trying to implement next. Such as right now trying to teach my child your religious creationist ideas.

So why do we call it AD because the majority do and you refuse to respect us enough to let us do otherwise.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I am without sin but I cast no stones.

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Fair enough...

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Originally Posted by SteveWard3928

You Just..... Believe


I cannot give any facts about how truthful the Bible is. Part of the aspects on being a Christian is faith. You just believe and trust that it is true.
And what is so wrong about having faith and trusting there is something greater than us?
my answer would be this: I can stare at my computer desk for a million years and it will never come to life. Something or someone has to create life. You cannot get life from death but we know you can get death from life.

If I believe in God and I am wrong...that is it I am dead (never existed) but....
If one chooses not to believe...and they are wrong, well I would not want to be in their shoes.

What is so wrong about believing in God? I think I will choose my picture now. i wondered what I would choose. SteveWard3928

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We've kind of been down this path Steve. We are merely trying to discuss some actual truths beyond our faith. What do we have "factually" that backs our beliefs beyond faith. You got any good examples, throw them in the discussion.

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Originally Posted by michealb

I think it's interesting that all she did was reword your argument for her side and she is the bully because she pointed out how silly you were making things sound. Of course it seems that Christians on this sight are allowed to spew nonsense and hatred, but no is allowed to call them on it.

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Funny how that works, isn't it? Funny too how these conversations always end up with the Christians saying atheists don't belong because it's a Christian topic, when the thread is in religious discussions and the OP never specified wanting only one type of opinion...

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Dealing with the "Christians" on this site has made me more proud to be an atheist.

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Amen! :D

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Originally Posted by SteveWard3928

If I believe in God and I am wrong... that is it I am dead (never existed) but...
If one chooses not to believe... and they are wrong, well I would not want to be in their shoes.

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This is only true if the bible is the "correct" belief; which is the point of this conversation. If the Muslims are right, you're in for it. You can believe in god and still be wrong.

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Originally Posted by michealb

The reason why christians get told they are wrong more than others is because your the majority. Being the majority you make the laws and the history books because of this even though I'm not christian I need to know what crazy plan you all are trying to implement next. Such as right now trying to teach my child your religious creationist ideas. So why do we call it AD because the majority do and you refuse to respect us enough to let us do otherwise.

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I cannot totally take away your feelings of how Christians come across some times, because I have struggled with this in my past as well. But I have learned in life that the only one I can control is myself. On the same note, I am no better than anyone that I have a problem with, because sometimes the problem is me. And if you group me in with others (Saying that I am the majority?), well that is your prerogative and I cannot change that. I'm actually not too sure what you even mean by that?
I think the pendulum has swung the other way and people have forgotten Creation and Evolutionists are pushing their views now. It used to be most everyone knew what Creation theory was, and now few can explain the basics, let alone the specifics, yet they refute based on whatever reasons they have. This is just the problem, you are now calling my view a crazy plan without even understanding what the Creation Theory is? Why can we not agree that there are two vantage points out there and have the confidence within ourselves to let people decide one way or another. I think it is more wrong to not see EVERY view without pushing one way or another. It is fairly clear that most everyone has a view in this discussion, but my point has always been to make sure everyone (From the time we are children) has ALL the information in front of them. Whether people in this discussion back my views or not is irrelevant. I am not influencing other Christians. They have a mind just as much as I do. If they back me... great... if they don't that's OK too.

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Originally Posted by michealb

I think it's interesting that all she did was reword your argument for her side

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It is really strange that you characterize that vindictive piece of anti-Christian bigotry as a simple rewording of an argument.

Do you really think that calling the God whom we revere and love "the invisible sky wizard" is polite conversation? Or is it rather a demeaning, belittling, insulting attack on our beliefs with the intent of bullying us into acquiescing to hers?

Obviously, you are as biased as she.

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and she is the bully because she pointed out how silly you were making things sound.

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No. She is the bully because she attacked our beliefs without provocation simply because we disagree. She is the bully because she expects that her insults will cow us into agreement with her simply because she is loud and rude. She is the bully because she thinks that she can force us to accept her argumentation no matter how foolish it might be.

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Of course it seems that Christians on this sight are allowed to spew nonsense and hatred, but no is allowed to call them on it.

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On the contrary. Christians on this site speak kindly and intelligently until they are attacked by anti-Christian bigots. Then when Christians defend their views, those very same anti-Christian bigots, like yourself start crying like selfish little babies. "Waa!!! The big bad Christian defended himself!!!! They aren't supposed to do that!!! Waaa!!!!"

But Christian is not synonymous with "walk all over me".

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Dealing with the "Christians" on this site has made me more proud to be an atheist.

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That's because as an atheist you have no morals or conscience. Otherwise you would be ashamed to be associated with a bunch of bullying, insensitive, anti-christian trolls who's intent is simply to disrupt polite religious discussion in any way they can.

Now if you want to continue a polite discussion, carry on. Otherwise quit your lying diatribe and find another forum where you can bully people who won't defend themselves.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Funny how that works, isn't it?

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Yeah. Its funny that the one who begins insulting us turns around and cries foul when we defend ourselves.

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Funny too how these conversations always end up with the Christians saying atheists don't belong because it's a Christian topic, when the thread is in religious discussions and the OP never specified wanting only one type of opinion...

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Actually, I believe Buzzman and the other Christians have been wondering why, whenever your beliefs are questioned, you resort to attacking our beliefs with insulting and demeaning language.

Is it because atheists don't know how to discuss anything politely with people who have opposing opinions?

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Amen! :D

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Personally, I would be ashamed to be associated with either of you if you think that your style of argumentation is considered remotely civilized.

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This is only true if the bible is the "correct" belief;

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Which it is.

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which is the point of this conversation.

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Yet you and other atheists have derailed the conversation to evolution and insulting diatribes because you have been unable to prove your contentions on the topic.

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If the Muslims are right, you're in for it. You can believe in god and still be wrong.

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Sounds like desperation to me. You are actually relying on a religious group, a group who believes in God to defend your atheist contentions. What a delicious pickle you're in. You can't defend your own ideas so now you call on another religious group to support your contentions. But far from that, Muslims, Christians and all religious will first pick apart your atheist arguments. Because we hold virtually the same apologetic reasons in common against nonbelievers.

In the meantime, when and if a Muslim enters this conversation challenging Christian belief, I'm sure that many Christians on this forum will be happy to answer the challenge.

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Originally Posted by buzzman

Can I ask who all these people are who think that I am perfect ever got the picture that I WAS??

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I don't know how you got the idea that anybody here thinks you're perfect. I was just pointing out that you kept on posting after saying that you were done because the discussion had no value for you.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Actually, I believe Buzzman and the other Christians have been wondering why, whenever your beliefs are questioned, you resort to attacking our beliefs with insulting and demeaning language.

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Speaking of insulting and demeaning language...

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Thats because as an atheist you have no morals or conscience. Otherwise you would be ashamed to be associated with a bunch of bullying, insensitive, anti-christian trolls who's intent is simply to disrupt polite religious discussion in any way they can.

Now if you want to continue a polite discussion, carry on. Otherwise quit your lying diatribe and find another forum where you can bully people who won't defend themselves.

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Touché.

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Originally Posted by SteveWard3928

You Just..... Believe
I cannot give any facts about how truthful the Bible is. Part of the aspects on being a Christian is faith. You just believe and trust that it is true.
And what is so wrong about having faith and trusting there is something greater than us?
my answer would be this: I can stare at my computer desk for a million years and it will never come to life. Something or someone has to create life. You cannot get life from death but we know you can get death from life.

If I believe in God and I am wrong...that is it I am dead (never existed) but....
If one chooses not to believe...and they are wrong, well I would not want to be in their shoes.

What is so wrong about believing in God? I think I will choose my picture now. i wondered what I would choose. SteveWard3928

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I think this is really the crux of the matter. We seemed to have moved into a discussion about the existence of God instead. But the point is, the Bible is hearsay. Faith is the driving force of Christian beliefs.

De Maria,
"Thats because as an atheist you have no morals or conscience. Otherwise you would be ashamed to be associated with a bunch of bullying, insensitive, anti-christian trolls who's intent is simply to disrupt polite religious discussion in any way they can."

I find this extremely offensive. You assume that atheists have no morals? Do you imply that morality is purely a product of faith? You think people who don't believe in God are inherently bad?
And I'm seeing bullying from both sides here. Please, you were doing such a good job of rationalising your arguments, don't sink to that level.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Speaking of insulting and demeaning language...

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What makes you so different than the rest of us talking here "Ordinary". By the way you write, you seem to think that you fall into a different category of human existence. All we've established here is that we are all the same and NO ONE likes to be pushed around, it doesn't matter who you are, and solved absolutley nothing by doing so.

buzzman,
I believe OG was pointing out an instance of hypocrisy. It really has nothing to do with you.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

If the Muslims are right, you're in for it. You can believe in god and still be wrong.

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So true!!

Post #192 is the first mention of evolution done by Buzzman. So don't blame Jillian for taking this subject off topic. She was merely correcting the inaccurate statement made by him. When she turned his own argument on him he called foul. I think if actually read her post you will understand what she was doing. You probably won't but you could at least try. All that happened was Buzzman insulted a scientific theory and then Jillian insulted a religious theory. Then several Christian attacked her.
Sounds to me like Christians were unable to prove the bible as factual or even to prove the bible isn't wrong on several occasions. So they derailed the conversation.

De Maria nice how you can insult muslims and atheists in one post. Good going. I'm surprised you didn't throw in a jab at gay people too. How moral of you.

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Originally Posted by buzzman

What makes you so different than the rest of us talking here "Ordinary". By the way you write, you seem to think that you fall into a different catagory of human existance.

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I make no claim to be anything other than an ordinary guy.

You are all just going around in circles trying to score points from each other... why bother, no one can prove anything, you either have faith or you don't.

It comes from within you can't measure it or see it or touch it but you know it's there.
Why does someone have to be right or wrong?

I think that there is too much emphasize on the bible and what is written there in, is it true or isn't it.
If you're a non believer there will always be a counter argument for your case, you are not going to get prove one way or another.
More to the point is where or how you think this beautiful world was made if you do not believe in god!.

Religion ( faith) in any culture around the world in my opinion is a personal thing, everyone who is religious has their own name for their god and their own book that they follow but basically it is the same god that they worship, their book will have rules for living,passed events etc etc we just call it different things but the principle remains the same where ever you are in the world.

There will be those who believe everything stated word for word, without consideration for updates over the years and yes personal I am sure as in society today bits would have been added or left out but the initial outlay would still remain the same

You say maybe we don't like the thought of living to die and perhaps religion is made up for that purpose... well think about that statement for a second...

Living to die... how pointless would that be in fact why would the world exist just so's a whole load of beings could live to die... this statement says it all.

We live to learn, life is a learning curve whether you believe in god or not we will all go on to the next world with our knowledge to another form of life where we will continue to learn.

No I cannot prove it or would I even bother I just don't feel the need to, suffice to say that there are many things in this world that we will never understand nor are we meant to.

Post appears to have run it course, getting into name calling on all sides, not all posters but all sides

Post closed>>>>>>