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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Of the doctrines Mr.Camping promotes:
I. the Method of Bible Interpretation.
II. the Character of Salvation and the Character of Judgment.
III. the Time-Line of History including the precise time of Judgment (May 21, 2011).

But it seems to me the teachings are so well thought out and supported by the Bible that it's difficult not to believe.

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I can see where altering I. to be perceived in a specific way (Camping's way) could make III. Believable. Without following Camping word for word, what do you believe? With all of your time studying the bible and the word of God... what do you believe?

As stated before I can take ANY book and re-interpret it anyway I want. Dig way deep into the simplest meanings and conjure a formula to support a theory.

Just because the bible does in fact say certain things, does not mean Camping's interpreation of such is accurate or justifies his formula. Every word, sentence, phrase, story can be interpreted different ways by different people. Why is Camping's theory so compelling? Is it because it's difficult to understand, well thought out and precise, leaving it difficult to not believe.

If I believed in every well thought out scam... I would be broke!

ITstudent2006

Thanks for taking the time to post on this thread. You seem like a nice person. But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke. I'm not just talking generalities here. What I have called "the method" is not a method at all in the conventional sense. The Bible itself gives specific rules and guidelines. And Mr.Camping follows them. Unlike many other Bible teachers who do not.

Want to discuss more ?

1. The Bible may or may not give rules and guidelines. It does not give exact interpretation of every word, sentence and phrase. Please show me these rules the Bible have set forth on how to accurately interpret it's content in it's entirety.

2. "Want to discuss more?" This is an arrogant tone. Plain and simple, you seem very arrogant and biased towards "non-believers" specifically, "non-Camping believers". Again, you are very cunning in the way you dance around questions and only answer with bigger words and twisted meanings of previous statements to throw the topic array.

I take in consideration that you have been backed into a corner by ALL members of this thread but lashing out instead of keeping you demeanor, to me, shows doubt. Instead of handling this tactfully you create arrogant, sarcastic responses belittling any imposer to your belief... sad really!

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke.

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Can you link us to M. Campings complete description of his methodology please. I thinks it's the only way for us to understand.

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ITstudent2006: 1. The Bible may or may not give rules and guidelines. It does not give exact interpretation of every word, sentence and phrase. Please show me these rules the Bible have set forth on how to accurately interpret it's content in it's entirety.
2. "Want to discuss more?" This is an arrogant tone. Plain and simple, you seem very arrogant and biased towards "non-believers" specifically, "non-Camping believers". Again, you are very cunning in the way you dance around questions and only answer with bigger words and twisted meanings of previous statements to throw the topic array.
I take in consideration that you have been backed into a corner by ALL members of this thread but lashing out instead of keeping you demeanor, to me, shows doubt. Instead of handling this tactfully you create arrogant, sarcastic responses belittling any imposer to your belief... sad really!

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As I expected. Your reply puzzles me. Sentence 1. Expresses skepticism, and yet you claim to want to see the rules. Why ? You're obviously way too smart to learn anything from a cultist like myself.
Number 2. was simply an invitation. Nothing more. I feel sorry that it brought out the feelings of contempt that you've expressed.

I ask you again. Do you want to discuss, rationally ? Or do you want to hurl accusations ? The choice is yours.

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HeadStrongBoy: But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke.
NeedKarma: Can you link us to M. Campings complete description of his methodology please. I thinks it's the only way for us to understand.

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I have already given the web address. Here it is again... http://www.familyradio.com.

As far as I remember there is not one specific publication that simply lists the rules found in the Bible that relate to interpretation. That particular subject is a special interest of mine. But I'd be glad to list them for your below.
[1]Every word of the entire Bible is directly from the mouth of God. 2 Peter 1:21, Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4, Jeremiah 36:2, John 17:17, 2 Timothy 3:16.
[2]God speaks in parables in many places in the Bible. Job 27:1, Psalm 78:2, Proverbs 26:9, Matthew 13:34.
[3]We need to compare scriptures before coming to any conclusions. 1 Corinthians 2:13, Isaiah 28:10.
[4]The importance and meaning of numbers as God uses them in the Bible. This is NOT a method of numerology.
[5]Realizing that the New Testament and the Old Testament are really one covenant. Hebrews 10:16.
[6]Realizing that unless God Himself opens our minds we will not perceive truth. Luke 24:45. And realizing that God also sends strong delusion to those He wishes to harden. Exodus 7:13, 2 Timothy 2:11.
[7]Realizing that the Bible is a living book. God is actively engaged in every aspect of it's teaching. Hebrews 4:12. In this context the word quick means "alive" or "living."

As you see I have not given references for every rule. Some issues do not easily lend themselves to very plain exposition. And I do not feel expert enough at this moment to elaborate. And it is also possible to combine some rules under a major sub-heading to simplify the structure of the outline. But it is a work in progress because God treats each of us as individuals who have different capabilities. But that's a very rough outline. And above all humility and prayer are required. God is watching.

Thanks for the link. The info seems to be in this PDF: http://www.familyradio.com/PDFS/waat.pdf It's a long one and already it has issues.

He says:

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However, in order to give authority to the verses they are using to teach
What they want to teach, Bible teachers declare that the Bible is infallible and
Without error. But they actually do not believe that this is really true of each and
Every word in the whole Bible. If they did believe the whole Bible was infallible,
They would never speak of such things as scribal error. They do not understand
That God has protected His Word so that a scribal error could not occur.

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But earlier he says:

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In Hebrews 8:8, the Bible declares:
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith
The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel
And with the house of Judah:
In this verse, the phrase “I will make a new covenant” should have
Been translated “I will finish a new covenant.”

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Is he not contradicting himself?

Also he says:

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Considerable evidence in the Bible points to the fact that, in all
Likelihood, Jesus, who is the very essence of the jubilee, was born on October 2,
In 7 B.C

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So why set Christmas on a Pagan holiday?

Another quaint quote:

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But then, as we shall discover in this study, 2,300 days after the
Beginning of the great tribulation, God's final great salvation program began.
That day of history was September 7, 1994 (A.D.). It was on that date that God
Again poured out His Holy Spirit, so that for the next 17 years, all over the world,
A great multitude of people would become saved.* Indeed, no one was aware of
This awesome action of God at the time it occurred. But the Bible assures us that
It did occur.

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And later he goes on to manke many wild interpretations (p.34)

It has all the feel of a cult document, or of someone who believes they are a chosen prophet.

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he says: However, in order to give authority to the verses they are using to teach
What they want to teach, Bible teachers declare that the Bible is infallible and
Without error. But they actually do not believe that this is really true of each and
Every word in the whole Bible. If they did believe the whole Bible was infallible,
They would never speak of such things as scribal error. They do not understand
That God has protected His Word so that a scribal error could not occur. But earlier he says:
Quoting : In Hebrews 8:8, the Bible declares:
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith
The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel
And with the house of Judah:
In this verse, the phrase “I will make a new covenant� should have
Been translated “I will finish a new covenant.�
NeedKarma: Is he not contradicting himself?

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No he is not contradicting himself. We need to understand the difference between the Word as given in the original languages, and the translation into our modern languages. He is referring to scribal error of the original manuscript only (which does not exist anymore). Translations and copies can have errors. And it is true that God can manipulate anything to suit His purpose, including errors. Also you're forgetting rule number [6]. God knows why you're questioning this particular issue. He knows the intricacies of your mind and your heart. I do not.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Also you're forgetting rule number [6]. God knows why you're questioning this particular issue. He knows the intricacies of your mind and your heart.

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Nah, he doesn't. That's true for all of us.

Headstrongboy-Can I ask what version of the bible you use? Thank you for your references that you just gave I really want to read them from the version you do so that I can try to understand where you're coming from.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

ITstudent2006

Thanks for taking the time to post on this thread. You seem like a nice person. But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke. I'm not just talking generalities here. What I have called "the method" is not a method at all in the conventional sense. The Bible itself gives specific rules and guidelines. And Mr.Camping follows them. Unlike many other Bible teachers who do not.

Want to discuss more ?

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So in essence you are FINALLY confirming that you believe that Camping's interpretation is the ONLY correct interpretation, and the rest of us can't really read or understand the Bible.

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NeedKarma: It has all the feel of a cult document, or of someone who believes they are a chosen prophet.

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Of course you're completely entitled to your feelings. But you asked me for the list of rules that refer to Bible interpretation. Then you go off on a tangent. Again your privilege.

I personally do not consider Mr.Camping as the final authority. Neither do I consider my own opinion as the final authority. Learning from the Bible (Which is my goal. I don't know about you.) is a painstaking and slow process that requires we look at the Bible as the authority.

I did not put the list out there just to stroke my ego. God gives us His knowledge of the Bible so that we may diligently apply it. Something that you are apparently not about to do.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

As a Christian you should not be scared. Instead you should be looking foreword to spending eternity with Christ. Now, if you are not a Christian I can see how this discussion would bother you.

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I see your point-I guess ultimately I'm afraid of death and I'm afraid of witnessing the death of my family. It's just all so hard to grasp no matter how I look at it.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Then you go off on a tangent. Again your privilege.

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No tangent, I commented directly to the material and person in question. If you feel that I did not follow the discussion line as per your vison then that is your privilege to be erroneous.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

God gives us His knowledge of the Bible so that we may diligently apply it. Something that you are apparently not about to do.

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I lead a good life without applying the rules of a book. But thanks for inquiring. Take care and good luck with your impending death.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I'm going to go slightly off topic, just to address this part of your post.

I am not Christian, so I don't know if you'll take comfort in anything that I have to say, but I do speak from my heart, so I hope you'll listen.

If by some chance all this end of the world stuff is true, then there's nothing at all anyone can do about it, other then the God you believe in.

One thing I can tell you. If the end of the world is near, then worrying about it every day and night, isn't going to change a thing.

You could walk out of your house tomorrow and get hit by a car and die. You could find out tomorrow that you have terminal cancer and only have a short time to live. You could be gunned down on the street by some madman. Anything can happen. Every day we have on earth is a gift. Every single minute we have with our loved ones is a gift. Live life that way and you can't go wrong, even if the end of the world is next month.

I watched both of my parents die of cancer 6 1/2 months apart. I was 30 when they died. They were way too young to go. I may not have faith in God, but losing my parents gave me a gift, I found my faith in life. Since that time I live each day as if it was my last. I hug my kids every chance I get. I never miss an opportunity to tell someone I love them. Each moment is precious. Not because I'm trying to get to heaven, not because I believe the end is near, only because I choose to live, however long that may be.

If I die tomorrow, I'm at peace. I lived my life the best way I could. I have no regrets.

Please, don't worry about tomorrow. Live for today. :)

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Thank you for sharing this, this is very nice and comforting. I was actually raised baptist but was also always taught to live each day as its last and to let every person in my life know every day how much I love them.

The more I re-read through all of my posts, the more I see how paranoid I am.:o

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Synnen: So in essence you are FINALLY confirming that you believe that Camping's interpretation is the ONLY correct interpretation, and the rest of us can't really read or understand the Bible.

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I'm never sure what to say to someone like yourself, who has such powerful authority over me.

Let me put it this way. I believe that Camping's approach is the most accurate that I have found so far.

As far as my opinion about "the rest of us"... What does it have to do with anything ?

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

As far as my opinion about "the rest of us".....What does it have to do with anything ?

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I think she is referring to the few billion christians who haven't come to the same conclusions as M. Camping, that would even include lifelong biblical scholars.

HeadStrongBoy-before the conversation veers off from the bible verses too much longer, may I please know the version of the bible you use?

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Depressed in MO: The more I re-read through all of my posts, the more I see how paranoid I am.

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Your comments strike me as those of a human being. I can relate to the feelings of paranoia. Unfortunately one drowning person is not of much help to another drowning person.

Get my drift ?