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Originally Posted by michealb

Someone who knows nothing on the subject they are arguing about can agrue regardless of facts.

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But anyone who would argue that what goes up must continue to go up would be easily disproven by the empirical evidence. All I have to do is hold up a stone and let it go. It will fall.

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Here is the final deal with evolution the end all be all of why its used.

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No, its just your opinion. Your opinion doesn't carry as much weight as you seem to think.

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1. It has never been proven wrong.

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And has never been proven true.

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2. All evidence that has so far been collected over the last 150years has pointed towards evolution.

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Towards micro evolution as well as towards intelligent design. But macro evolution, which is the subject being discussed has not been proven.

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3. Every experiment ever done on the subject has proven evolution.

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There can be no experiment just speculation on the reason for certain bones and their similarity to other bones.

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4. No one has come up with a theory that fits the evidence better.

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That doesn't make it true or factual. Many theories have been disproven after years of being considered true.

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Until you have some evidence that contradicts one of those 4 points your argument that evolution is flawed is wrong.

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Until you have any proof that the theory of evolution is a fact, evolution remains a theory.

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Originally Posted by buzzman

My point exactly regarding your control issues. So typical of a "Controlling personality" by feeling you have to get the last word in......You will hear nothing else from me after this regardless of what you say from this point on. So feel free to respond to "Get that last word in". I don't need a computer to ignore you. You are transparent to all in this discussion.

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I think it's interesting that all she did was reword your argument for her side and she is the bully because she pointed out how silly you were making things sound. Of course it seems that Christians on this sight are allowed to spew nonsense and hatred, but no is allowed to call them on it.

Dealing with the "Christians" on this site has made me more proud to be an atheist.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Now thats the best statement of this whole thread. Men may lie, and exaggerate, but nature is the best proof of life adopting to its environment. That includes man. Change over time............evolution.

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One part that I agree on is the Natural selection of people. Also one way to back this up is travelling abroad for instance. You travel to another country that has poor water quality. That culture has learned to adapt and the strong genes survived and the weak died off. When people from the US or Canada travel abroad we have to be careful, because we might have that "Weak" immunity in our genes that could be harmed from these issues because we come from a clean and sanitary environment compared to them. It that respect, it cannot be refuted. The primary difference between Creation and Evolution are the "Time Frames" involved with the changes.

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Originally Posted by michealb

I think it's interesting that all she did was reword your argument for her side and she is the bully because she pointed out how silly you were making things sound. Of course it seems that Christians on this sight are allowed to spew nonsense and hatred, but no is allowed to call them on it.

Dealing with the "Christians" on this site has made me more proud to be an athiest.

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We are more alike than you think. I am not perfect and neither are you. I'm sorry if I come off this way, it is not my intention.

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Originally Posted by michealb

I think it's interesting that all she did was reword your argument for her side and she is the bully because she pointed out how silly you were making things sound. Of course it seems that Christians on this sight are allowed to spew nonsense and hatred, but no is allowed to call them on it.

Dealing with the "Christians" on this site has made me more proud to be an athiest.

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By the way... its a Chrsitian debate... what would a person like you be doing in this discussion anyway if you don't want a Christian viewpoint? Are you more agnostic?

Yes Buzzman I have often wondered the motive of someone who claims they don't believe in a God, to come to a religious or christian thread and argue about something that should mean nothing to them.

I have often proposed the thought that those that come to attack Christian faith have other beleifs than that of "No Beleif" and wish to attack Christian because of a dislike or hate for it that goes far beyond their stated ideas.

Would a person who cares less about history go to the history threads and make fun of people giving proper history info. Would a person go to the cooking area and do nothing but make fun of or attack those that are giving cooking ideas. Of course they would not. And to be honest you don't see them going to the Muslim areas making fun of their faith, they pick speciflcly Chrsitianity. One of the posters here ( temp banned) even has a web site set up to specificly state they come to christian sites on purpose to cause trouble.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

And yet, you keep on posting.

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Can I ask who all these people are who think that I am perfect ever got the picture that I WAS? Please... I am not the Messiah and I do not ever profess to be. Everyone here is a hypocrite in one way or another. Lets get this straight. So we can either discuss like adults or stay out of the discussions with your petty shots!

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Originally Posted by michealb

Thats because the information that they do present is truthful and factual.

The reason creation theory isn't accepted is because it doesn't hold up to scientific testing in order to be considered a scientific theory there has to be supporting evidence and experimentation that proves some part of that theory true and there has to be no evidence that contradicts it. Both of those requirements are true for evolution but not for creationism. That is why evolution is science and creationism is religion. Science has to have facts behind it or it isn't science. Religion can make up anything they want even if it doesn't make sense or have facts behind it and it is still considered religion.

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But he Bible is also considered to be a historical record of its own. It represents the Genealogy of Jesus from His prophisised birth the end of His life and beyond the setting up of His church. So to a Christian, it is a history book. Why do we call 2008"AD" if he did not exist on this earth. As most know "AD" stands for "After Death". After "Jesus's" death. Is that not factual?

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Yes Buzzman I have often wondered the motive of someone who claims they don't beleive in a God, to come to a religious or christian thread and argue about something that should mean nothing to them.

I have often proposed the thought that those that come to attack Christian faith have other beleifs than that of "No Beleif" and wish to attack Christian because of a dislike or hate for it that goes far beyond thier stated ideas.

Would a person who cares less about history go to the history threads and make fun of people giving proper history info. Would a person go to the cooking area and do nothing but make fun of or attack those that are giving cooking ideas. Of course they would not. And to be honest you don't see them going to the Muslim areas making fun of thier faith, they pick speciflcly Chrsitianity. One of the posters here ( temp banned) even has a web site set up to specificly state they come to christian sites on purpose to cause trouble.

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Isn't the premise of this thread "How can we prove the bible is factual?" Doesn't that invite all comers to offer their opinion? Or is it simply restricted to all the "yes" men? Why are you attacking others for their opinions?

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Yes Buzzman I have often wondered the motive of someone who claims they don't beleive in a God, to come to a religious or christian thread and argue about something that should mean nothing to them.

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This isn't posted in a "Christian" thread, it is under Religious Discussions. That being a very broad topic, I would think it would be open to believers AND non-believers of ALL faiths. Would it not?

The OP asked how can we prove the bible is factual. Those who do not believe that it can be proven to be factual have stated their ideas and when possible backed it up with some pretty impressive information. Those who do believe that it can be proven to be factual have stated their ideas. Also backing it up with impressive information when possible. It has made for very interesting reading, prompted a lot of thought and has probably led a lot of the readers to some self exploration. How is this not a good thing, for believers, non-believers and in-betweens?

To argue about something that "should mean nothing to them?" The very nature of the question itself begs for those who do not believe to voice an opinion. Just as it begs for those who do believe to voice an opinion. Isn't that the point of a discussion thread? What kind of world would this be if everything could only have one point of view?

Where things have gotten off track is where everyone who feels that their point of view was some way personally attacked and the retaliation posts begin!

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Isn't the premise of this thread "How can we prove the bible is factual?" Doesn't that invite all comers to offer their opinion? Or is it simply restricted to all the "yes" men? Why are you attacking others for their opinions?

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There are opinions, and then there is ignorant responses. Opinions are welcome.

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Originally Posted by buzzman

There are opinions, and then there is ignorant responses. Opinions are welcome.

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You judge and insult others - bad christian, you're going to hell!

Well actually it was orgianally on the christian board it was moved for the reason to allow those who wish to attack to be able to attack,

I still wonder why they have this need to do so.

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Originally Posted by buzzman

As most know "AD" stands for "After Death". After "Jesus's" death. Is that not factual?

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I was almost impressed with much of your information until you posted that one...

Anno Domini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by buzzman

By the way...its a Chrsitian debate...what would a person like you be doing in this discussion anyway if you don't want a Christian viewpoint?? Are you more agnostic?

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I don't see it as a Christian debate. I see it as an open debate. Also if I didn't present my viewpoint it wouldn't be much of a debate would it? Hard to debate anything if everyone just agrees with you. As for me being agnostic it depends on the meaning of the word you are using. I don't believe there is a god. It means I haven't seen proof or reason to say there is a god.

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Originally Posted by Izannah

This isn't posted in a "Christian" thread, it is under Religious Discussions. That being a very broad topic, I would think it would be open to believers AND non-believers of ALL faiths. Would it not?

The OP asked how can we prove the bible is factual. Those who do not believe that it can be proven to be factual have stated their ideas and when possible backed it up with some pretty impressive information. Those who do believe that it can be proven to be factual have stated their ideas. also backing it up with impressive information when possible. It has made for very interesting reading, prompted a lot of thought and has probably led a lot of the readers to some self exploration. How is this not a good thing, for believers, non-believers and in-betweens?

To argue about something that "should mean nothing to them?" The very nature of the question itself begs for those who do not believe to voice an opinion. Just as it begs for those who do believe to voice an opinion. Isn't that the point of a discussion thread? What kind of world would this be if everything could only have one point of view?

Where things have gotten off track is where everyone who feels that their point of view was some way personally attacked and the retaliation posts begin!

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Agreed... lets keep it going, and agree to be able to express BOTH sides. I find these discussions intriguing and am learning much myself. Note to Christians: You have to allow free thought... It is the will of God. No one is called to be robots.

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Originally Posted by Izannah

I was almost impressed with much of your information until you posted that one....

Anno Domini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Sorry... to put more concisely it is "Anno Domini", which means "After the year of our Lord", I was cutting corners...

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Originally Posted by michealb

I don't see it as a Christian debate. I see it as an open debate. Also if I didn't present my viewpoint it wouldn't be much of a debate would it? Hard to debate anything if everyone just agrees with you. As for me being agnostic it depends on the meaning of the word you are using. I don't believe there is a god. It means I haven't seen proof or reason to say there is a god.

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The definition of Agnostic is someone who thinks of the existence of God is unknown & unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You judge and insult others - bad christian, you're going to hell!

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He who's without sin cast the first stone my friend...

I am without sin but I cast no stones.