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Originally Posted by leeseeandjoel

This "critically important logic" you are talking about, that for some reason you think as a believer I have over looked, does not apply to most believers. Here is why, belief in God does provide hope, however, God doesn't ever just leave you hanging..it doesn't stop at that point. He continues to manifest and he makes himself known in your life! He says always give a reason for why you hope.. if I didn't have any reason ,yes, I would be illogical. If you give him a chance and it doesn't work out, whats the loss?? Atheism will always take you back.

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God leaves people hanging all the time, then they fall to their deaths.

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

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God leaves people hanging all the time, then they fall to their deaths.

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God's not the one leaving them hanging.

Something good happens- Thank God for this... Thank God for that.
Something bad happens- God never did that.
God had nothing to do with that.

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

Something good happens- Thank God for this... Thank God for that.
Something bad happens- God never did that.
God had nothing to do with that.

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When something bad happens, we did it. Mother Nature also is guilty.

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

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God leaves people hanging all the time, then they fall to their deaths.

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Really, how do you know? Was it God? Do they fall to their deaths or do they go home?

You have not because you ask not...
Did they ask God to save them, to come and rescue them?
Don't forget, the son of God was persecuted, mocked and eventually hung on the cross.
Could he have stopped it? Yes, but then that would have defeated the entire purpose. Not to mention his Glorious resurrection.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When something bad happens, we did it. Mother Nature also is guilty.

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Wait, I'm confused Wondergirl. Do you believe in God or Gods, plural? If you believe in only one God than who is mother nature? Did she come from God? Or is she her own God.
Yes, a lot of the time when something bad happeneds, we did it, but not always, this isn't an absolute. Niether is "mother nature"

When you think about it everybody is an atheist, it's just that technically athiests as are commonaly describes believe in one less god than a Christian.

(I know I have paraphrased somebody but I can't remember who!)

I haven't seen anyone worshipping Zeus recently...

So when somebody says I don't understand how you cannot believe because (insert any comment from the why I believe in God posts). Then they have to consider they already do understand- they have not been believing in loads of gods since they were born, and continue to do so today.

People that believe in God lack education In one source 41% of people that went to high school believe the Bible as the word of God, only 2 % of people that graduate college believe the bible is the word of God. That should tell you something. There are thousands of Gods that have come and gone way before your god. The good news for athiests is that we are growing. Worldwide we number about 1 billion growing very quickly. In the U.S one of the last countries that is holding on to religions but that is changing. In 1990 we numbered 14.2 million in 2001 just under 30 million as of 2006 42 million Athiests have grown at a shocking rate. At this rate maybe in 10 years we will be a third or even half the population of America. I think one reason is the internet.

workerbee.

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Originally Posted by templelane

When you think about it everybody is an athiest, it's just that technically athiests as are commonaly describes believe in one less god than a Christian.

(I know I have paraphrased somebody but I can't remember who!)

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

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Originally Posted by workerbee

people that believe in God lack education In one source 41% of people that went to high school believe the Bible as the word of God, only 2 % of people that graduate college believe the bible is the wrod of God. that should tell you something. there are thousands of Gods that have come and gone way before your god. The good news for athiests is that we are growing. Worldwide we number about 1 billion growing very quickly. In the U.S one of the last countries that is holding on to religions but that is changing. In 1990 we numbered 14.2 million in 2001 just under 30 million as of 2006 42 million Athiests have grown at a shocking rate. At this rate maybe in 10 years we will be a third or even half the population of America. I think one reason is the internet.

workerbee.

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Yes. Atheism is growing at a far faster pace than any single religion. Also...

Atheists as a whole, outnumber Jews in America (not sure about Christians). The problem is, there is no 'voice' of atheism. Do we need a voice? On the one hand, the answer is no, since we are not trying to advance any agenda. On the other hand, rational thinking is in society's best interest. To think that Intelligent Design almost made it into a public school system to be taught alongside evolution is an absurdity to any reasonably educated person. There is also the problem of thwarting science in the name of religion, not to mention our willingness to respect the unfounded beliefs that lead to terrorism.

I'm not even so sure that atheism itself is growing or just the idea that people who were already atheists are just beginning to feel comfortable admitting it. Either way, the rise of reason good news!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

As I said before, God is so huge and so far beyond our knowing that we cannot begin to imagine who he is and what he can do.

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So every time we run into a contradiction about God that defies logic, you're going to wiggle out of it by simply decreeing Him outside the physical laws of the universe and therefore immune from our questions.

Well, isn't that just too easy?

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

If God knows you will die tomorrow, is He powerless to prevent it? You can't have it both ways. Either God is omniscient, or omnipotent. He can't be both.

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What kind of reasoning is that?. lol why should God prevent your death? If its your time to go it is your time to go. God does in some cases prevent people from dying like he did my brother.

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

So every time we run into a contradiction about God that defies logic, you're going to wiggle out of it by simply decreeing that He stands outside the physical laws of the universe and is therefore immune from our questions.

Well, isn't that just too easy?!

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Of course.. What is logic? Your perception of "logic" is based on the fact that you are a human being who possesses very limited knowledge. A human being who is bound by time and the laws of Physics. If hypothetically for your sake we say that God does exists, what makes you think that a being powerful and super intelligent enough to create a universe like ours, would be bound by the same laws that bind us human beings. God created time and physics, why would he be bound by it? So your "logic" argument hold no weight when it comes to God because your logic is founded on microscopic humanistic views.

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Originally Posted by workerbee

people that believe in God lack education In one source 41% of people that went to high school believe the Bible as the word of God, only 2 % of people that graduate college believe the bible is the wrod of God. that should tell you something. there are thousands of Gods that have come and gone way before your god. The good news for athiests is that we are growing. Worldwide we number about 1 billion growing very quickly. In the U.S one of the last countries that is holding on to religions but that is changing. In 1990 we numbered 14.2 million in 2001 just under 30 million as of 2006 42 million Athiests have grown at a shocking rate. At this rate maybe in 10 years we will be a third or even half the population of America. I think one reason is the internet.

workerbee.

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That's a bold statement! Christians are uneducated? So our lack of intelligence is the reason we believe in God? Wow! How wrong you are. So, by your standards, statistics should influence my belief? So let's "run with the crowd" as if this were in High school... and have no mind of our own?
You say there were thousands of Gods that came and went before my God.. How do you know this? Your text books?
Well the good news for christians is that because atheists are growing it only means, to us, that this is part of a fulfilling of a prophecy. The Lord is building up an army and he is coming back for us. So it doesn't hurt my feelings any... it does however, make me sad for those who don't know him

[QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by templelane

When you think about it everybody is an atheist, it's just that technically athiests as are commonaly describes believe in one less god than a Christian.

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I think you need to be reminded of the definition of atheism.

a·the·ism (ā'thē-ĭz'əm)
n.
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

Christians and other thiests don't believe in the athiestic doctrine that there is no God or god's, so don't try and make us part of your religion.

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I haven't seen anyone worshipping Zeus recently...

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Yes but you have seen billions of people worshiping the One True God Jehovah. :)

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So when somebody says I don't understand how you cannot believe because (insert any comment from the why I believe in God posts). Then they have to consider they already do understand- they have not been believing in loads of gods since they were born, and continue to do so today.

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Yes, and You have not believed in ANY god and that what sets you apart as an atheist.

[QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by workerbee

people that believe in God lack education

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I am starting to wonder whether you even have a fifth grade education with an ignorant statement like this... lol

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In one source 41% of people that went to high school believe the Bible as the word of God, only 2 % of people that graduate college believe the bible is the word of God. That should tell you something.

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I don't know where you get your stats from but people who attend christian schools are better of than those who don't. Catholic schools are known to be some of the best schools world wide.
How many colleges and universities were founded by Christians to encourage higher education? Harvard? Yale? Yes and yes. So please don't continue to embarasse yourself with such ignorants.;)

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

So every time we run into a contradiction about God that defies logic, you're going to wiggle out of it by simply decreeing Him outside the physical laws of the universe and therefore immune from our questions.

Well, isn't that just too easy?!

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We're only human and have neither the words or even the conceptual skills to define God. Mankind (and smarter people than we are) has struggled fruitlessly for millennia to find answers for the same questions you are asking. The questions certainly won't be answered on AMHD!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When something bad happens, we did it. Mother Nature also is guilty.

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I thing god and mother nature are sleeping together. God is all powerful, god sees all and he loves us... God sees a little 3 year old girl starve to death in her home after her Mommy has a heart attack.
What a wonderful God you have.

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The good news for athiests is that we are growing. Worldwide we number about 1 billion growing very quickly. In the U.S one of the last countries that is holding on to religions but that is changing. In 1990 we numbered 14.2 million in 2001 just under 30 million as of 2006 42 million Athiests have grown at a shocking rate. At this rate maybe in 10 years we will be a third or even half the population of America. I think one reason is the internet.

Workerbee.

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Sorry to burst your bubble Workerbee but athiests only account for about 5% at best of the world's population. That mean at least 90% of the world population are rational enough to acknowledge that there is one deity or another.
Im afraid atheism is not the fastest growing faith as you presume. Christianity is the fastest growing faith by converts and Islam is the fastest growing religion by births. So don't get too happy..

Cue George Carlin's wonderful take on religion:
(warning: contains language not suitable for all): YouTube - George Carlin - Religion is bull.