Several denominations believe that it is OK (and even encouraged) to ask Saints to pray for us.
:confused:So, what biblical evidence is there for that? :confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred
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Several denominations believe that it is OK (and even encouraged) to ask Saints to pray for us.
:confused:So, what biblical evidence is there for that? :confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred
None!
Don,
Wrong,
One is that being a Christian you are referred to in the bible as a saint.
If someone asks you to pray to God for them would you refuse?
I think not.
I know that I would pray for them.
And there are other biblical indications of saint anctivies along those lines.
I want to know all that there are.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,
Sorry, I all this time have understood that the Catholic Church had to vote a person into saint hood. And then you were free to pray to/through them. If that is not what you were referring to then I apologize for not understanding.
In my Bible the concordance shows 8 times where the word saint is used.
Ps16:3, Da 7:22,Mt 27:52, Ac26:10, Ro8:27, ICo 6:2, Eph 2:19 and Rev 14:12.
None of which tell you to pray through anybody.
450donn, Yes the Catholic Church does say that certain people have become heavenly saints, and Jesus gave the power to do that to The Church.
I was referring to all saints.
Jesus Himself told us to pray for each other.
That means that He told us to be intermediaries for others.
Also look at what God told Job's friends to do about prayer.
He told them to ask Job to pray for them.
Jesus IS the supreme mediator.
When I pray to God, who is a trinity, for you and others I pray to The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The same when any saint prayes to God for us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
If you pray to Jesus or the holy spirit, how then do you reconcile that against MT 6? Where Jesus himself taught the disciples how to pray. OUR FATHER...
Donn.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all three beings in one God.
When you pray to one they all hear.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I believe Christ taught us to pray to The Father. Just as He has shown us to do in ensample to His praying to The Father (Mt Olive) It is also written in scripture, and spoken to us by Christ. Christ said we could ask anything in His name to the Father...Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Christ has said ask in my name, and it will be given...This shows that Christ is the principle of power, yet Christ still gives all glory to The Father.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 14:15-16 If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:20-21
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
According to scripture a saint would be like Mose's brother Aaron. Of course he is no longer living.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Levit 11:43 references where after the law is respectfully unclean such as Aaron (psalms 106:16)
Who would you consider a saint? I consider a saint those in Christ (Phl 4:21)
Another example of saints are the angels... and we do not pray to angels!
I am not a religious person, but I am very spiritual. To be honest, the bible can be interpreted in so many different ways, you can pretty much put whatever meaning you want to it. But when you step back and look at the whole picture, it makes reference everywhere that god is in all of us, in everything, everywhere. My opinion is that when it comes to praying, it's the belief, and feelings behind what you are saying and asking for that is important. Not where you do it, or if you have someone do it for you. In other words, it's what you personally feel or believe that gets your thoughts and feeling projected. If you believe in your heart, you must speak through a saint, then your at absolutely right. On the other hand, if you believe in your heart that god is listening if you pray in your own bedroom, then you are also absolutely right.
I am however not good at quoting the bible, but this is how I view things, and how I really believe it is meant to be interpreted.
If they are alive, plenty
If they are no longer alive - none. In fact scripture says that if they are dead, it is an abomination in the eyes of God to communicate with them.
sndbay
The Saints are NOT dead. Jesus said so.
The bodies of some are dead but they are alive in Christ in heaven Just like Moses and Elijah.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
The word used in Deuteronomy is condemning speaking to the dead refers to being dead in the flesh.
BTW, as for Moses, what did God say about him?
Josh 1:1-2
1:1 After the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, it came to pass that the LORD spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' assistant, saying: 2 "Moses My servant is dead.
NKJV
Are you telling us that Moses, a servant of God, was not a saint?
Tj3,
I believe what Jesus said about that.
And that is that God is the God of the living, not the dead and Jesus was referring to people who HAD past this life.
"have you not read what was said to you by God,
'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
Thanks,
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Have you not read what God's word says about the dead saints?
Ps 116:15
15 Precious in the sight of the LORD
Is the death of His saints.
NKJV
The,
I have said whay I have said.
I believe what Jesus said.
Take it or forget it.
You can believe what you wish whether it is in scripture.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Tj3,
'What I believe is in Scripture as I quoted from Matthew 22.
Thanks
Which you took out of context. That passage is refuting those who deny the resurrection of the dead. It does not say that that we can ignore the prohibition against speaking to those who are dead in the flesh.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Matt 22:23-32
23 The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him and asked Him, 24 saying: "Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 25 Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother. 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh. 27 Last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her." 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
NKJV
I note that you say that you accept this verse taken out of context, but you apparently do not accept these verses:
Ps 116:15
15 Precious in the sight of the LORD
Is the death of His saints.
NKJV
Josh 1:1-2
1:1 After the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, it came to pass that the LORD spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' assistant, saying: 2 "Moses My servant is dead.
NKJV
Tj3,
What Jesus said is clear.
Those dead of the body are alive in the Lord God.
Yes the living saints will die of the body but live in the Lord God.
If you don't mind (or even if you do) I'll believe what Jesus said.
Then believe what he said in context. And believe other parts of the Bible. Believe what God says when He says when He condemns communicating with those who are dead in the flesh. You cannot take verses out of context (even out of the local context in the paragraph) and then claim that you believe what the Bible says.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Tj3,
I believe all of the bible.
I just do not believe some of the ways that you interpret it.
I know what the bible says about that and I believe that Jesus meant exactly what He said.
If you don't that is for you to decide for you, but not for me.
Fred...Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
The Bible... The Word.... is in reference of Life (or) Death
The meaning of satan is death...
The meaning of God's love and Christ is Life... His children, those who follow have Life.
There are 3 different verse that speak of where the dead of the flesh return.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
2 Corinthians 5:7-8
Luke 16:24
Ecclesiasters 12:6-7
None say we can pray for them or to them... The Word makes it very clear that once your flesh leaves to return home to the Father, that there is no contact with the flesh of the earth.. (Luke 16:27) confirmed how we on earth have what was fulfilled in scripture, and once departed from the body you will go to one side of the gulf or the other.. . But by no means will you send messages of hope to brothers!
Jesus did mean exactly what he said - and did not mean for verses to be taken out of context of what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
This is what the topic is.
What biblical support is there for asking saints to pray for us?
I am interested in that nothing else.
Thanks
Right - and the answer is clearly - None!Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Amazing that it took 26 posts to arrive at the same answer I said in post number 2!
Thanks Tj3
450donn
But I do believe that The Saints in heaven CAN pray for us.
Fred
If you are talking about the saints here on earth, yes, the Bible tells us to pray for each other. Of course, if we are saints here on earth, we don't need purgatory, do we.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
You can believe what you want but we are not discussing what YOU believe, but rather what the Bible says.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Tj3,
Then please tell me what bible passages support The theology that the Saints in heave or earth can pray for us.
The question is NOT about asking for biblical passages which may be used in disfavor of that.
Fred
Does this one qualify?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
1 Timothy 2:1-4 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Or this one?
James 5:13-16 Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
Wondergirl,
Very good.
Those can be used for that.
Thanks,
Fred
I think that for another saint to ask some 1 to pray for them you have to believe and have faith in god that he will answer your prayers I have faith and believe that god will be answer every body prayers just keep your faith.
I did - I said plenty for those on earth, but none for those in heavenQuote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Tj3,
I'm not interested in your negatives.
I'm looking for positive responses.
Jesus said that God is the God of the living, not the dead.
I believe Jesus.
Fred
Fred, an honest response is sometimes negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
You do know that was a defense of the truth of the resurrections against the Sadduccees who denied it, don't you? You do know that it in no way contradicts the Biblical prohibition against communication with the dead, don't you?Quote:
Jesus said that God is the God of the living, not the dead.
Yj3,
I know what Jesus said and how He said it.
It was positive.
That is good enough for me.
So if your interpretation taking it out of context is positive, that is all you need? Once you take it out of context, it is not God's word you are following, but yours. Here is the question that was being asked when that comment was made:Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Mark 12:18-20
18 Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him; and they asked Him, saying: 19 "Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man's brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring.
NKJV
Do you believe God when He prohibited communication with the dead?
Deut 18:10-14
10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you.
NKJV
Tj3,
I do NOT take it out of context.
Please quit with your false accusations.
Fred
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