In anybodys eyes do you think its right to be gay?
Posted this for the "pet expert" but anybody can answer
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In anybodys eyes do you think its right to be gay?
Posted this for the "pet expert" but anybody can answer
Hello b:
Well, if you're gay, of course it's right. If you're not, and you buy into the church crapola, then you might think it's NOT right.
So, what's new? We already know what Christians think of homosexuality. But, their opinion can be discounted because they've been brainwashed.
excon
According to basic Christian, Muslim and Jewish teachings, homosexual activity and its practice is wrong.
There are newer break off groups in all faiths that have accepted those beleifs, ( opinion more for the people and the donations than any real faith issues) And you will find some break off group that will accept any type of desire known to man if you search.
But historically and still in the majority ( Western culture), religious groups do not accept this behavior.
Scripture is clear, and here is one example. Note that some in the church in Corinth fell into each of these sins and were brought out of them.
1 Cor 6:8-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV
Hello T:
I didn't know you disdain drunkards just like you do homosexuals...
How come you let drunkards, marry then? Or how come you don't pass a law that takes away a drunkards right to drink? Or how come it's OK to drink, but not get drunk? Wouldn't that mean that it's OK for two guys to kiss, if they didn't go any further?
Just curious.
excon
I neither disdain those who drink excessively nor homosexuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Why is a "drink" okay - it is not a sin. Jesus drank wine. Scripture is clear on this point that the sin is excessive drinking.
But you are right to point out that each are stated in scripture to be sins, and no sin is better than another, so none of us can claim to be better than those who practice homosexuality. We all need to come to Christ for forgives of our sins.
Rom 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NKJV
To often homosexuality is presented to be somehow a worse sin than others, and that is not true.
This, BTW, is not talking about the law of the land, but what is and is not a sin.
Well personally my belief is of course Christian... im protestant... because the 'other' christian whatever you call them like baptists, methodists and other things like that... they all believe in different things... they keep taking stuff out of the bible to butter things up for the homosexual belief... like right here in WV... they have a gay church... im getting confused about the Christian belief... I know its wrong I was raised that it was and is but sometimes I just wonder...
Hello again, b:
Nobody here is telling you that you should accept homosexuality. If you think it's wrong, then it is. If your church believes that gay people shouldn't marry, then your church shouldn't marry gay people, and you can keep gay people OUT of your church if you want to.
Those are your rights, and nobody here would attempt to convince you otherwise.
I think your confusion is GOOD, too. I think people ought to challenge conventional wisdom instead of blindly accepting the rules of the past. Why don't you go to the gay church and talk to those people? You might find out some stuff.
excon
We don't keep anybody out of church its Gods house anybody and everybody is accepted there...
I was at a store yesterday with my parents and sis... I noticed them first but a lesbian couple walked in the door holding hands and my dad started making fun of them... he was just like 'they want to be noticed so I'm noticing'... they didn't hold hands after that but still I don't like to hurt peoples feelings so I didn't join along but I wanted to... I mean I have a gay friend but I don't make fun of her or anything but I still think its wrong
Hello b:Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbalina
It's a shame your father DOES like to hurt feelings... You should instruct him on the Christian belief of "love thy neighbor as thyself". Plus, he's not even being polite. Doesn't he want you to be polite??
You've got your work cut out for you. It's VERY difficult to overcome a childhood filled with bigotry, but you CAN do it. I think the very FIRST thing to do, is ASK about it, and you DID. Good for you.
excon
Ummm... thanks and he is Christian he's was just saying what he believed just like those lesbians were showing what they believe and he didn't care who heard... see? This is very confusing
God loves those who are homosexual, and they should be welcomed in the church. The passage that I quoted is clear that some in the church in Corinth were, before they were saved, homosexuals. We come to Christ as we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbalina
Hello again, b:Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbalina
Yes, it IS confusing. Let me see if I can help.
On the one hand you've got your father, who you love very much... Then, on the other hand, you're starting to question things... That's part of growing up, and it IS confusing.
I don't believe the lesbians were making a statement to the world. I believe they were making a statement to each other.
I don't know how old you are, but I promise you, that when you find your beau, and you hold hands with him/her, it WON'T be a message to the world. It'll be a message to your loved one.
I suppose too, that your father thought by holding hands, they were offending him, so he had the right to offend them back. But, they weren't, and he doesn't.
It's like I said, you're going to have a hard time overcoming your fathers influence... But, I'm here to help.
excon
I'm turning 18 in the beginning of sept... and things have been confusing very much for the past few years and I've been through a lot of stuff to prove it... but I do love my father and I know what he believes but I just think he hurt those girls feelings I mean their people too but I don't know?
Hello again, b:Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbalina
Yes, you DO KNOW. Treat people how you'd like to be treated... Oh, my gosh... That's another Christian prayer, isn't it?
excon
That's more like the golden rule...
According to Christian belief homosexual behavior is a sin. There just is NO getting around it.
TJ3,
Incidentally (and this is OFF the subject) do you know what Laodicean means? It is translated the People RIGHTS! I about fell over when I heard that. Thought you'd enjoy that since excon was giving you a lecture on the RIGHTS that Gay's don't get and the drunks do! LOL Well it blew me away anyway.
Interesting. I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized? There is already a group working on recognition of homosexual pedophile rights - rights to practice their sexual orientation. Also, many people say that the Bible does not speak about the orientation, just the act, but in fact the Bible does speak about the orientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Hello again, Tj:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I have no problem discussing my views. I DO have a problem discussing what other people SAID were my views.
In fact Tj, I don't speak about "sexual orientation rights". I don't know what that is.
If you followed my argument, I specifically spoke about gay marriage. I can back up my argument with Constitutional law. I'm right - you're wrong. That law WILL be changed. Of that, I have no doubt.
Pedophile have the right to get married too. I spoke of NOTHING other than the right to get married. Pedophiles DON'T have the right to molest children.
I don't expect you to confine yourself to THAT argument, as I get that you think gay marriage equates to pedophile rights.
THAT isn't worth responding to. It's actually kind of stupid. I can't argue with stupid arguments. Ok, I'll make ONE argument... There ISN'T ONE group calling for gay marriage that also calls for the rights of pedophiles to molest children...
At least MY arguments have a basis in reality.
excon
According to the bible, the ACT of homosexuality, like any other sin, is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbalina
We are all sinners, and it is sinners that Jesus Christ loves - that He died and resurrected for us . :)
G&P
I did not say that you did. Read again, carefully this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Not a compelling argument.Quote:
I'm right - you're wrong.
First you falsely accuse me of claiming you said something that you didn't. Then you take it upon yourself to put words in my mouth. The word "hypocrisy" comes to mind.Quote:
I don't expect you to confine yourself to THAT argument, as I get that you think gay marriage equates to pedophile rights.
Yes thank you I know He has I just really wanted to get everones views:)Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
You conveniently left out his argument. The sentence that preceded what you quoted is: "If you followed my argument, I specifically spoke about gay marriage. I can back up my argument with Constitutional law." But you chose to leave that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You said: "I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized?" I'd say he summarized it correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Yes, because it was irrelevant. We are not speaking about constitutional law - this is the "Religious Discussion" board, not the "Constitutional Law" board. Besides.constitutional law depends greatly upon what country you live in, what the basis for that law is (British, Napoleonic, etc.), and a few other factors.
I stand by what I said.Quote:
You said: "I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized?" I'd say he summarized it correctly.
Hello again, Tj:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You're a slippery little devil, but I got your number...
So, because this is a religious discussion board, your suggestion that I think pedophiles should have the right to molest children, should NOT go unquestioned...
I understand. That's what religion has done since it's inception. Lie. You represent it well.
excon
excon,Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I nsaid nothing of the sort, and you were told that before also. If you feel the need to smear those who disagree with you, then that says more about you than me.
I hope I won't be accused of misrepresenting or persecuting or falsely accusing you of anything if I simply ask where you find the Bible speaking about the orientation as something distinct from the act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You would never be accused of any of those if you don't do them. I hope that I won't be accused of lying for defending my faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
There are many places throughout scripture, from one end to the other. Here are two:
Gen 8:20-21
21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
NKJV
What do you think the imagination of man's heart is?
I keep forgetting. You're the only one who's allowed to bully people. (And it's textbook bullying, really, complete with persecution-complex and accusations that others are willfully maligning you if they have the temerity not to agree with what you say.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
What on earth makes you think this is talking about sexual orientation? Am I to infer from this rather feeble offering that you couldn't find a place where the Bible talks about sexual orientation as opposed to sexual acts?Quote:
There are many places throughout scripture, from one end to the other. Here are two:
Gen 8:20-21
21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
NKJV
What do you think the imagination of man's heart is?
No one, including you, is allowed to bully people. Some people apparently assume the right to do so, or get frustrated when they have no response and assume that abuse is the best response to one is unwilling or unable to admit they have no answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
You asked where the Bible speaks of "orientation", so I gave an example. We have to start with basics sometimes to avoid mis-understandings.Quote:
What on earth makes you think this is talking about sexual orientation?
I note that you did not answer my question.
If you are unable to carry on a civil and respectful discussion, then we are unlikely to get anywhere. Were you looking for a real answer, or an excuse to abuse?Quote:
Am I to infer from this rather feeble offering that you couldn't find a place where the Bible talks about sexual orientation as opposed to sexual acts?
It is such a vague idea that it could basically represent anything. It could represent free will, it could represent just that: "his imagination". Why do you think it represents a man's sexual orientation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Why do you think that I said that it referred to sexual orientation when I just responded to that very point to Akoue.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
As for whether it refers to a person's orientation in general, let me ask you - what in your opinion is an "orientation"? Take the "sexual" out of it, and let's just consider a person's orientation or in any sphere of life. Define what you mean, so that we can see if we are on the same track.
Well, Tom, here's what you said in your respoonse to ClassyT:
I quoted this in my post, #27. Also, if that weren't enough, the thread has been about HOMOSEXUALITY.Quote:
Interesting. I always wonder, when people speak about sexual orientation rights, how far they would take it. For instance, what about pedophiles - should they have their rights recognized? There is already a group working on recognition of homosexual pedophile rights - rights to practice their sexual orientation. Also, many people say that the Bible does not speak about the orientation, just the act, but in fact the Bible does speak about the orientation.
So the question is, why did you quote that bit of Scripture as though it has anything to do with sexual orientation?
Sigh! Did you read what I wrote?Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
As I said, you asked about orientation. Sometimes, particularly in cases like this (as we can see from this discussion), we have to ease into a topic by going back to basics. You appeared to be unaware that orientation is mentioned at all in scriopture. If we can get past that, we can look at sexual orientation.
If on the other hand, you just want to make belligerent comments about me rather than engaging in a discussion, then clearly we are not going to move forward. You asked a question - were you serious about wanting an answer? If so, then get down off your high horse and let's have a respectful dialogue.
I note that you still have not answered the question that I asked you.
Pedophiles are usually straight males. It's a deviance, not an orientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I thought this thread is about homosexuality.
But to many homosexuality is just another perversion thus the issue, pedophiles, perfering animals and so on are just extremes of varoius perversions, while not related to each other to some of us, we see little difference, only in extreme.
I can't figure out what you wrote. Pedophiles are not homosexual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
First, when we speak about a sexual orientation, we need to understand that whatever you attribute to a sexual orientation such as homosexuality may also apply to other sexual orientation such as pedophilia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
As for your argument that pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, professionals in this area disagree. Here is a quote from the National Register of Sex Offenders website:
"Pedophilia involves sexual attraction/orientation towards children, and usually involves males." (Source: http://www.registeredoffenderslist.o...pedophilia.htm).
There are other sexual orientations also.
orientation = turning towards (like the word "attraction" mentioned just before it)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Pedophilia is "turning towards" or "orientating towards" children, usually by straight males.
It's a different use of the word "orientation."
I can orientate toward the sunrise every morning.
Yep, and there are numerous sexual orientations, including pedophilia, as indicated by that site and other experts in the field, and in agreement with even your definition above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Usually only because the overwhelming majority of males are straight. The percentage of pedophile homosexuals is no less however, and some studies have shown a notably higher rate of pedophilia amongst homosexual males. Regardless, I am not sure what this has to do with what we are discussing.Quote:
Pedophilia is "turning towards" or "orientating towards" children, usually by straight males.
One sexual orientation versus another. I see no difference. Hypersexuality is also referred to as a sexual orientation.Quote:
It's a different use of the word "orientation."
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