From the New Jerusalem Bible, Matthew Chapter 1

18. This is how Jesus Christ came to be born. His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph; but before they came to live together she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
19. Her husband Joseph, being an upright man and wanting to spare her disgrace, decided to divorce her informally.
20. He had made up his mind to do this when suddenly the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because she has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit.
21. She will give birth to a son and you must name him Jesus, because he is the one who is to save his people from their sins."
22. Now all this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken through the prophet:
23. Look! The virgin is with child and will give birth to a son
Whom they will call Immanuel,
A name which means "God-is-with-us".
This is a record of the first prophesy of Jesus Christ, God the Son being fulfilled.
How many of such prophesies are you aware of that HAVE BEEN fulfilled?
How many have so far NOT BEEN fulfilled?
I ask these questions for it seems to me that there is a variation of opinions on this.
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

Dear Fred,

All one can conclude from the first lines is that Jozef was a nice but either gullible man - or a man with a reason to hide his own fathership. Common Fred : over time, billions of pregnant girls must have tried similar lines...

18 - "(His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph)
but before they came to live together she was found to be with child through "the Holy Spirit"."

Obviously there was more Jozef and Maria had done before together.
But was/were there any spirits involved? Who knows. But Holy Spirit ? No, I don't think so!
Just sex. No problem at all. You are young, you are engaged, well : why not try out the goods?

23 - "Look! the virgin is with child and will give birth to a son whom ....".

Please reread : Look! the virgin is with child : that "look" indicates clearly that Mary's pregnancy was visible.

But two lines down you refer to prophesies and their fulfillment.

What prophesies, Fred ? The 50-50 one that it would be a son?
That a woman (of whom everyone can see that she is pregnant) will give birth?
That must have happened many billions of times in human history.

That an unmarried woman (of whom everyone can see that she is pregnant) will give birth?
Same thing : done billions of times before. Nothing new either !

Look : if you BELIEVE in God : fine. If you BELIEVE in Jesus : fine. If you BELIEVE in Jesus Christ : fine.
If you BELIEVE in the Trinity : fine. And even : if you BELIEVE in the Bible : fine.

But prohesy? For Jesus of Bethlehem? Debateble. For Jesus Christ? No, surely not.

You asked : How many of such prophesies are you aware of that have been fulfilled/not fulfilled?
It is the same for all prophesies and forecasts : most are incorrect. Only a small percentage will be spot on.
But that should be expected, and has no meaning on the validity of prophesies and forecasts in general!

You asked for a variation of opinions on this. Well, you got mine !

Peace and kindness to you too, Fred ! And have a nice day !

John

:rolleyes:

Thanks for your opinion, John.
I do believe in God's prophesies as written in the Bible.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Well I can't believe those words came out of Credendovis' mouth.
Is he going less Mensa and more DeMensia?
Anyway... the Old Testament, the Law and the Prophets, just about all the books of the Prophets have references that you could consider. And the Book of Psalms. Maybe at the time they were written they were assumed to refer to people like David or Solomon who were earthly rulers but forshadowed the Kingdom of Christ. Just about all the Book of Isaiah
The name Isaiah is two Hebrew characters that when you reverse them spells Jesus name. So they were playing their records backwards even before rock n roll was invented.

Yikes!

I'm sorry this question was asked, and I'm even more sorry to be the one to answer it.

Here we go:

What happens on the shortest day of the year in the northern hemisphere?
All throughout the year, starting at the longest day of the year, when the sun reaches it's highest point in the northern hemisphere sky at 12 noon, the sun, each day, doesn't go quite as high in the sky as it did the day before. That is, until the shortest day of the year.
What happens on the shortest day of the year is, the sun stops getting lower and lower in the sky at it's 12 noon position, and starts it's travel back up to the higher reaches of the sky, heralding warmer, longer days, and letting ancient peoples know that it's going to be time to start planting crops in a few months.

On the shortest day of the year, which usually occurs around Dec 25th, if you live in the northern hemisphere, and you go out side before sunrise, and look out into the night sky to the east, one of the brightest objects you will see is the belt of Orion. In the Belt of Orion you will see three very bright stars, which are called today by the same names they have been called for all of recorded history that we have access to, which is "The Three Kings"

These three stars form a straight line in the sky. If you trace that line, you will see that it points directly at another very bright object in the night sky, "Sirius", also known as "The Star of The East". If you follow that line formed by the three brightest stars in the belt of Orion and the star Sirius, that line points to exactly the spot where the sun will rise that morning.

This all happens in the section of the sky we've named Virgo, or "The Virgin" (Remember that Virgo is also portrayed as a female figure holding a loaf of bread, so that you could say that this all occurs in the area of the sky known as the house of bread. Well, the ancient Hebrew word for "House of Bread" is "Bethlehem".

So, we see that, on the shortest day of the year, the "New born SUN of God is born to the virgin, in Bethlehem, and there are three kings that are lead to the event by the star of the east, or "New born SUN of God is born to the virgin, in Bethlehem, and there are three kings that are lead to the event by the star of the east, or ".

This has been going on, every shortest day of the year, since before there were humans on earth.
Does this mean that Jesus never existed, and doesn't exist now?

OF COURSE NOT!!

It just means that ancient agrarian myths have been woven into Christianity.

For example, if you and I live inland, and if I lie to you and say there's no ocean, or that the ocean is purple, that doesn't have any effect on the ocean itself, does it?
God lives, Jesus lives, and they love you, but, as Christians, we need to start separating out all these myths so that we can start to get to know the true nature of Our Lord and Savior, the One True God.

OK, so, I know I'm going to be "flamed(burned) at the stake" for this... but God knows where my heart lives, so I have no fear... let the flaming begin...

worfpunk, I loved your post, very interesting stuff. :)

I liked your answer Worfpunk...

Where's the little agree button? LOL

You cannot give agrees/disagrees in the discussion forum. :)

Ah TY ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wildandblue

Well I can't believe those words came out of Credendovis' mouth.

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wildandblue : you seem to have a problem with hearing voices speaking to you.
Whatever I speak here goes straight into a microphone, and some hard and software process that into graphical symbols, that are posted onto this board. It's fast and simple. Only corrections are done by hand and keyboard.
PLEASE NOTE : no spoken words are ever transmitted from here to you!!
So I can assure you that when you think to hear words coming out of my mouth, you better phone the white-dressed boys with the straightjackets again...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wildandblue

Is he going less Mensa and more DeMensia?

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Unlike what may happen to you : here everything between the ears is working perfectly !

I just like to query WHY you post like that... Is that the way you "Spread The Word"??

:D :rolleyes: :p :) ;) :D

Here you go, Fred.

PROPHECY PROOF OF BIBLE

Prophecy Fulfillment Prophecy Fulfillment
1. Gen 3:15 (virgin birth) Mat 1:20 2. Isa 11:1 (descendent of Jesse) Mt 1:1-16
3. Micah 5:2 (place of birth) Lu 2:15,16 4.. Jer 31:15 (Herod's attempt) Mt 2:16
5. Isa 42:1 (ministry area) Mt 4:13-15 6. Zech 9:9 (grand entry) Lu 19:30-35
7. Ps 41:9 (Judas' betrayal) John 13:18 8. Zech 11:12 (betrayal price) Mt 26:15
9. Zech 11:13 (money for field) Mt 27:9,10 10. Gen 3:15 (“heel” bruised) John 19:18
11. Isa 53:3 (Jesus rejected) John 1:11 12. Ps 2:2 (council against Jesus) Mk 15:1 13. Zech 13:7 (arrest, deserted) Mk 14:27,50 14. Isa 53:8 (unfair trial) Mk 15:1-25
15. Ps 35:11 (perjured witnesses) Mk 14:56 16. Isa 53:5,6,10 (our penalty) Rom 5:6,8
17. Ps 69:19 (Jesus mocked) Mt. 27:28,29 18. Isa 50:6 (beaten, spit on) Mt. 26:67

19. Isa 53:7 (no defense offered) Mt 26:62,63 & Mt 27: 13,14
20. Isa 53:12 (with transgressors) Mk 15:27,28
21. Ps 22:16 (hands, feet pierced) Jn 19:18 22. Ps 22:1 (cry to Father) Mt 26:46
23. Ps 38:11 (friends view) Lu 23:49 24. Ps. 22:18 (gambling, clothes) Mt 27:35
25. Ps 22:6,7,8 (reproached) Mt 27:39-44 26. Ps. 69:21 (gall, vinegar) Mt 27:34
27. 109:25 (enemies shake heads) Mt 27:29 28. Ps 22:17 (watch Him die) Mt 27:36
29. Ps 31:5 (He yields spirit) Lu 23:46 30. Zech 12:10 (side pierced) Jn 19:34

31. Ex 12:46, Ps 34:20 (no bones broken) John 19:32,33,36

32. Amos 8:9 (sun darkened) Mt 27:45 33. Isa 53:9 (rich man's tomb) Mt 27:57-60

All above prophecies are from the Old Testament
Additionally, Jesus made some prophecies about Himself.

Mt 20:18,19 Eight separate details
1. I will be betrayed at Jerusalem.
2. I will be betrayed to the chief priests and scribes.
3. The priests and scribes will condemn me to death.
4. The priests and scribes will deliver me to the Romans. (gentiles)
5. The Romans will mock me.
6. The Romans will scourge me.
7. The Romans will crucify me.
8. I will rise from the dead on the third day.

The 33 details from the Old Testament plus the 8 details that Jesus gave in the New Testament make a total of 41 definite events perfectly fulfilled.

Count 'em yourself. Never could get Cred to read them. Afraid he might get confused, maybe?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by worfpunk

Does this mean that Jesus never existed, and doesn't exist now? OF COURSE NOT!!!!

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Have you started your own topic within Fred's topic, perhaps?
Nobody here suggested anything like that. The topic is about prophesies...

Personally I think that Mary and Josef indeed had a boy called Jesus - I see no reason to doubt that.
What I question is if Jesus is "Christ". For that there is no OSE at all. It is just a wild religious claim.
I also question the validity of prophesies. Any prophesies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by worfpunk

It just means that ancient agrarian myths have been woven into Christianity.

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What you seem to miss here is that it is stated in the Bible. A book that is CLAIMED to be "God's word". Do you suggest that "God" wove some "ancient agrarian myths" into his instruction manual for humanity??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by worfpunk

OK, so, I know I'm going to be "flamed(burned) at the stake" for this....but God knows where my heart lives, so I have no fear...let the flaming begin...

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Well, I won't flame you. All I do is querying your statements...
From me you may BELIEVE whatever you prefer...

:rolleyes:

worfpunk,
Very interesting and well made up.
It's amazing how many different things can be made to look like something else.
What you posted is a legend.
I have written a couple myself.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

Credo, I actually like you, though I haven't a clue why. I guess it goes back to my likening you to Saul of Tarsus, another very learned man.
You tell us all about secular humanism and how you belong (is that the right word?) to Mensa. So I start a new group in direct opposition to that on your thread, start selecting secret handshakes and club colors, decide after conferring with some others to call it Demensia, start planning social events. At no point do you tell me to GET LOST! Which is a lot more than can be said for some of the people you complain about.
What were we actually talking about?
So I guess Dem. Rules is my version of Yo, dog!

Oh yeah the stars in the sky story. Well the holy land is pretty close to the equator. They can't see all the same stars there as I can in North America. They can see all of the Zodiac because that is the path of the sun. Some of the ancient peoples of Palestine did worship the sun likely the astologers at Jesus birth did.
The peoples of ancient Britain did worship the sun I hear so the birthday of the sun Dec 21and the birthday of the Son were moved to coincide with each other.
Bethlehem is King David's hometown, he was following the flocks for his father Jesse when he was lifted to become King of Israel. So his successor was thought to come from the same place by those looking for the Messiah actually there are two Bethlehems, Bethlehem Ephrata is the right one
Jesus is said to have been born in the spring not winter his actual birthday is NOT dec 25

Quote:

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Originally Posted by worfpunk

Yikes!

I'm sorry this question was asked,
I know I'm going to be "flamed(burned) at the stake" for this....but God knows where my heart lives, so I have no fear...let the flaming begin...

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Do you want fries with that?:o

wildandblue
Re your comment to wolfpunk.
LOL!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Here is the video that explains what Wolfpunk was talking about.

YouTube - Truth about Religion Part 1 of 3

michealb,
Thanks
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Dear Fred,

All one can conclude from the first lines is that Jozef was a nice but either gullible man - or a man with a reason to hide his own fathership. Common Fred : over time, billions of pregnant girls must have tried similar lines ....

18 - "(His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph)
but before they came to live together she was found to be with child through "the Holy Spirit"."

Obviously there was more Jozef and Maria had done before together.
But was/were there any spirits involved? Who knows. But Holy Spirit ? No, I don't think so!
Just sex. No problem at all. You are young, you are engaged, well : why not try out the goods?

23 - "Look! the virgin is with child and will give birth to a son whom ....".

Please reread : Look! the virgin is with child : that "look" indicates clearly that Mary's pregnancy was visible.

But two lines down you refer to prophesies and their fulfillment.

What prophesies, Fred ? The 50-50 one that it would be a son?
That a woman (of whom everyone can see that she is pregnant) will give birth?
That must have happened many billions of times in human history.

That an unmarried woman (of whom everyone can see that she is pregnant) will give birth?
Same thing : done billions of times before. Nothing new either !

Look : if you BELIEVE in God : fine. If you BELIEVE in Jesus : fine. If you BELIEVE in Jesus Christ : fine.
If you BELIEVE in the Trinity : fine. And even : if you BELIEVE in the Bible : fine.

But prohesy? For Jesus of Bethlehem? Debateble. For Jesus Christ? No, surely not.

You asked : How many of such prophesies are you aware of that have been fulfilled/not fulfilled?
It is the same for all prophesies and forecasts : most are incorrect. Only a small percentage will be spot on.
But that should be expected, and has no meaning on the validity of prophesies and forecasts in general!

You asked for a variation of opinions on this. Well, you got mine !

Peace and kindness to you too, Fred ! And have a nice day !

John



:rolleyes:

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At least you are honest about it. You state that this is your OPINION. That's pretty much the same thing as BELIEF, right?