Entire story merged

I mainly post to offer my story to help anyone else that ends up in the situation I'm in, there's really little I can do at present, but I suppose advice never hurts.

We dated for 2 years, we're both 21 in college. It wasn't a perfect relationship, but we mainly had the same fight over and over. She would do things that made me feel like I wasn't important to her, garden variety example: This dude she was seeing briefly years before we met would try to talk her into having sex with him, she'd say no, he'd flip out and call her names, and this would happen periodically, not just once, then he'd be visiting his friends on campus, and I'd ask her to stay in and hang out with me that night, and she'd rather go out and visit him, because she'd feel bad if he was looking forward to seeing her.

She has a need to please complex, which I guess is an earmark of immaturity, so she'd end up doing things like this that would hurt me. I'd explain to her that it was hurting me, nicely, and she never seemed to get the message. Then I'd get angry and probobly condescending and I probobly said some abusive things, not name calling, mostly in the neighborhood of how long before she learns that she's being exploited like this.

Other major problems with the relationship were that she'd lied to me before. About hooking up with a dude before we were dating, her defense was always "what's the big deal, it happened before we were dating?" and my problem wasn't with what she did, it was that she lied to me. Again, she felt like it was none of my business. Yes, when she lied, it was directly to the question did you do X with Y, not lying by omission.

More problems like this, but I'm sure you all get the picture, so we sort of limped along for a while, but it didn't feel like we did, because at the end of the day she made me happy and I made her happy. Maturity and insecurities ate us alive.

Week before thanksgiving she drops the old I need some space to figure things out, I pushed my panic button and played the needy boyfriend, which of course drove her further away. She ends it (over text message, I might add), and over the next 2 weeks I was trying to figure out why. She'd never give me the same answer twice. Amongst them were I wasn't dependable, she never felt good enough for me, and she felt controlled. I sense these are all biproducts of her personal insecurities.

I recently began the NC thing mostly for myself, but partially because I wanted to see how serious she was about this, in the meantime I discovered she'd recently started seeing another guy, which she denied adamantly when I asked before I actually knew. I do NC for a week and she comes at me nagging about picking up my stuff for the 3rd time, and for the 3rd time I told her to throw it away and forget about me, I won't be mad, she refuses to do this, and nags me why I won't talk about what's bothering me. I explain to her that I found out about the other guy, ETC.

This is what she tells me, and I suppose this is subject to interpretation, but I haven't believed anything she's told me from the start of this, and I actually believe her when she says things like this. She said she's dissapointed at how weak she is and didn't have the courage to come clean with a lot of things and she hates how dishonest she is with me and things like that. I explained to her that I still want her back, but she has to get all that sorted out, dishonesty and weakness have no place in a relationship, and if you never sort that out, it's been nice knowing you. She also asked what I was doing with my life, and with other girls, I sort of hammed it up a bit, but I didn't tell her anything that wasn't true. I also left out the part where my life is miserably limping along without her.

Her birthday is coming up, I screwed the pooch on last year's birthday, should I do anything this year? I was thinking a card with just a happy birthday to let her know I'm still thinking about her, but I don't want to come off as desperate and needy. Again. Advice or questions welcome.

Zero,

It is time to just move on. Nothing for her birthday, no contact.

This relationship was doomed at the start.

There is a field of red flags in this post that just screams abusive relationship. Not necessarily physical, but mental and emotional.

Time to learn from what you did wrong here, and to learn what you do and do not want out of a girlfriend and move on to a happier healthier relationship.

What screams abusive? I sort of feel like I was too hard on her a lot, and when I told her that, she told me that I'm not normally like that, and I wouldn't be like that if I wasn't dating a "fixer upper". I don't know how much of that she believes, but what I'm asking is who's doing the abusing? I feel like I was doing my share of it, but I also feel like I was backed into that corner. Is that a blame tactic?

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

the same fight over and over.

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Abusive, verbally or emotionally. Couples who are happy do not have the same fight over and over. They solve the crisis and then move on.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

She would do things that made me feel like i wasn't important to her, garden variety example: This dude she was seeing briefly years before we met would try to talk her into having sex with him, she'd say no, he'd flip out and call her names, and this would happen periodically, not just once, then he'd be visiting his friends on campus, and i'd ask her to stay in and hang out with me that night, and she'd rather go out and visit him, because she'd feel bad if he was looking forward to seeing her.

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She did not care for your feelings or she still really had feelings for him. Come on, if a gal was committed, would she really do this? Honestly now, don't make excuses for her.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

she'd end up doing things like this that would hurt me. I'd explain to her that it was hurting me, nicely, and she never seemed to get the message. Then i'd get angry and probobly condescending and i probobly said some abusive things, not name calling, mostly in the neighborhood of how long before she learns that she's being exploited like this.

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She never got the message, probably because she did not want to. This can be considered emotional abuse. If she cared, she would have gotten the message. Here you yourself admitted some sort of emotional or verbal abuse.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

Other major problems with the relationship were that she'd lied to me before. About hooking up with a dude before we were dating, her defense was always "what's the big deal, it happened before we were dating?" and my problem wasn't with what she did, it was that she lied to me. Again, she felt like it was none of my business. Yes, when she lied, it was directly to the question did you do X with Y, not lying by omission.

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Do you see here how she lied? Lying is not part of a good relationship. I do see her point, it happened before you two were together, so why rehash what happened in the past, nothing you can do to change it, so why not just drop in and go forward.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

More problems like this, but i'm sure you all get the picture, so we sorta limped along for a while, but it didn't feel like we did, because at the end of the day she made me happy and i made her happy. Maturity and insecurities ate us alive.

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First, you did not "limp" you freaking needed crutches!! Now the rest of this paragraph is SO contradictory!!

You limped, but it did not feel like it... At the end of the day you made each other happy... Maturity and insecurities at you alive.

Now how can you be happy at the end of the day while being eaten alive?

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

i pushed my panic button and played the needy boyfriend, which of course drove her further away.

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Yep, you said it...

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

Amongst them were i wasn't dependable, she never felt good enough for me, and she felt controlled. I sense these are all biproducts of her personal insecurities.

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Her personal insecurities or ones that you imposed on her by confronting her, being needy, continuiously believing she is immature and insecure?

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

she'd recently started seeing another guy, which she denied adamantly when i asked before i actually knew.

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What business is it of yours now anyway? You are broken up right? It is her life right? This is what I call NONEYA, it is NONEYA business what she does while you are broken up.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

I do NC for a week and she comes at me nagging about picking up my stuff for the 3rd time, and for the 3rd time i told her to throw it away and forget about me, i won't be mad, she refuses to do this, and nags me why i wont talk about what's bothering me. I explain to her that i found out about the other guy, ETC.

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This is not NC. NC is NO CONTACT. No contact means, just that, no e-mails, no texts, no IMs, zip, zero, nada. NOTHING, she does not exist so you cannot contact her, and you ignore all contacts from her.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

I explained to her that i still want her back,

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Why? Really, think about it. WHY?

Okay, now that I feel like Chuff, here. I think you get my point.

We had the same fight, yes, but we also were trying different solutions. We also fought about different things. I was upset about how she made me feel unimportant to her, and she was mad at how I handle things when I'm upset.

I don't disagree that there was emotional abuse, but the question I'm asking is does it look as though that's in my nature from the start? I hate hurting her feelings, I hate the idea of running her life, and I hate the idea of her thinking I make all her decisions for her. I don't like the idea of dating somebody that only dates me because she thinks she can't find anybody better. I'm not jealous, I let her hang out with guys without me all the time. In fact, 90% of the time she's out, its with other dudes.

I've been researching emotional abuse, and I do fit some of the standards, so I'm very concerned. I've spoken with her on the subject, and she feels like she enables that in me. I've pointed out many times in the relationship that she lets people walk on her, and how I'd like her to stand up for herself, and the counselor I saw about this seemed to feel like I was right for doing so, but I'm also wondering if that itself is controlling behavior. If I created insecurities that weren't there? She wasn't happy with the way a lot of people were treating her, and she'd often come back crying to me about them. So I felt like I was doing something in her best interest. Again, I'm confused.

She didn't really have feelings for that guy that was visiting her, he was in the army and she would have felt bad if he left on a bad note and ended up getting killed in action or something of that sort.

As far as her lying being none of my business, the dude she hooked up with was threatening her and I and cutting himself, maybe I'm selfish, but when my personal wellbeing is at stake, I feel like I need to know what's happening. Her original story was just that he liked her and was getting crazy. The fact that they hooked up made it make sense, again I wasn't interested in rehashing what she'd done with him, I was just upset that she lied to me.

RUN, do not walk, from this loser as fast as your legs can carry you! She's everything you've said she is and worse. Why the heck would you even want her back? She'll continue to lie to and manipulate you. Hell, she thinks more of an ex from years ago who gets abusive if she refuses to have sex with him than she does of you! She's no prize worth waiting for. Erase her phone #, e-mail address, screen name, everything. If whatever stuff of yours she has really is worth no more to you than telling her to throw it away, then so be it ; let her deal with it. You don't need to feed in to this kind of drama and nonsense ; it's not healthy.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

What screams abusive?

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Everything, dude! Perhaps you did contribute to it some. After all, abuse tends to beget abuse. When someone abuses us, we tend to abuse them in return ; the old "tit-for-tat" mentality. That's all the more reason for you to stay away from her, so you won't be tempted to behave abusively towards her and possibly set yourself up as the "bad guy." Keep in mind that women tend to get away with abusive behavior more than men, especially because it tends to not be so much physical but more verbal and emotional. Then they try to excuse themselves by blaming it on "hormones" or PMS, etc.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

I've been researching emotional abuse, and i do fit some of the standards, so i'm very concerned. I've spoken with her on the subject, and she feels like she enables that in me. I've pointed out many times in the relationship that she lets people walk on her, and how i'd like her to stand up for herself, and the councellor i saw about this seemed to feel like i was right for doing so, but i'm also wondering if that itself is controlling behavior. If i created insecurities that weren't there? She wasn't happy with the way a lot of people were treating her, and she'd often come back crying to me about them. So i felt like i was doing something in her best interest. Again, i'm confused.

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It's possible that you have some abusive tendencies independently of her. A good question to start with would be something like how did you behave in previous relationships? If you behaved in manners akin to what you've done in this relationship, then it's possible that you may have some of your own abuse issues to work on. If so, then you need to work on that and you should share your concerns with the counselor you're seeing so that (s)he can address this. Remember, you can't fix anyone else but you can fix yourself.

I don't really want her back in her current state. I'm also not putting my life on hold for her, I'm seeing other people and encouraging her to see other people. Unfortunately for me she's seeing a real loser, which is taking its toll on myself esteem, but if she's going to better herself seeing guys like this is the best thing that can happen to me. I'm not really prying into her life, people tell me what's going on, even after I've made it clear I don't want to know. Right now I feel like if she would see how much work she is, she could learn appreciate what I do for her. But I can't handle her garbage like I used to. I'm also told there's an almost certainty she'll be back at some point, which is sort of scaring me. I'm strong when I'm left alone for a while, but when she tries to pry into my life I break down.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

i'm seeing other people and encouraging her to see other people. I'm not really prying into her life, people tell me whats going on, even after i've made it clear i don't want to know.

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To me that is prying. Do you understand NO CONTACT?

If you don't want to know, tell those people that you don't want to hear it when they start.

We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say I'm still interested in hearing it, and I can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

Forever, I think you are handling this situation pretty well considering how badly most people would do. The fact that she has admitted to the ways she was hurting you and all of that... I have been in a similar situation, but I wouldn't have been able to be that honest.

The fact that she is with a loser, I would say, stems to how low she is feeling... maybe she is feeling like she doesn't deserve better right now, and he is her rebound... a loser one, but its still a rebound. I don't really have any good advice right now, I am personally emotionally overwhelmed right now, but I just wanted to give you props for being so mature in all this. I think you have the right mind set to be able to handle this with your own judgement...

Good Luck

It sort of helps me to think about what a relationship is to me. Personally, I feel in a relationship I have 2 jobs, to make her feel needed, and to make her feel loved. I needed her and I loved her. Maybe not in the right way, but that's not for me to decide.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say i'm still interested in hearing it, and i can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

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Honestly I did not realize that there was an introductory stage of no contact. This is new to me.

No contact is no contact, you just don't slowly get to that point. You just stop contact.

How many people quit smoking their first try?

Not many, I know only a handful.

But No Contact is much easier, believe me I have done it and am currently going through it.

Albeit not with a girlfriend or boyfriend, but a VERY close friend of over a year. It was a VERY unhealthy and abusive relationship. I chose to get better, therefore No Contact.

There is a difference though. Smoking is a physical addiction.

If the relationship is an addiction there are more problems going on.

Hi foreverZero,

Sorry about what you are going through. I know it is tough, I really do. I usually expand on what others say but I read through the responses you had which have all been very good and I particularly liked J9's response which is #4 and in my opinion was spot on given all the facts.

I would suggest you re-read this particular response and really think hard about it. Sometimes, what we are told is not what we want to hear, yet it can help us to make sense of things.

So I won't expand here because I think J9 hit the nail on the head. I will keep an eye on your thread in case I feel I can add something more.

All the best and Happy New Year to you!

Oh Hang on a minute... I thought of something, the birthday card you mentioned you were going to send her. Forget it, full no contact is what is needed and for you to work on yourself and move on. She won't appreciate the card in the way you want her to.. Again it will make you look needy and actually she might feel a bit harassed in a way. I know you are not like that but see it from her point of view. I never sent anything to my ex over xmas, and I am glad because of What I have said here. You must let go! In time, it will make more sense.

What you have is one unhealthy relationship between two people that have no clue as to what they want or how to get it. You both enable each other in negative ways and maybe you both should leave each other alone. No contact is what you need and until you do it you both will continue to suffer and be miserable. Make all the excuses you want but this abusive relationship must stop.

I'm in 100% agreement, but the problem I run into, which I'm sure is the one everybody runs into, is what would the relationship look like without the abuse? Given what she's told me so far, we're both on the same page as far as the mutual enabling of the abuse.

Looking at myself, I can honestly say I've never been like this before, and the abusive things I've said and done have been in the wrong mindset. I've tried to keep her away from her friends sometimes, but that's the intent of her finding friends that don't make her cry every time they see her, not making her have friends that approve of me, as I find is the case in most abusive relationships.

I'm not making the mistake of basing my life on waiting for her to come around, but I also am inclined to trust my judgement, as this has more or less unfolded the way I figured it would. My judgement tells me that in time she'll realize why this went wrong, and understand that she's not the kind of person to hurt me, as I'm not the kind of person to hurt her.

As far as no contact goes, I've asked her to stay out of my life. She initiated the breakup, so I feel an obligation to listen to what she has to say to learn about myself. I also figure if she's going to disregard my wishes, it should be important to her. I doubt she'll have anything to say for a while anyway.

Tal did you read this?

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say i'm still interested in hearing it, and i can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

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Zero, I will maintain that there is not introductory stage for NC.

Please take a step back and re-read your post. This is a very unhealty relationship and you need to get healthy yourself first. Worry about you, not her.

This is the first time I've ever behaved this way, I've been in 4 6month plus relationships, and this is the first time I've ever had somebody leave me. This is a learning experience for me, and I still see the things she has to say as productive towards helping me get back on my feet. I still beat myself up over some of the things I've done to her and allowed her to do to me. She doesn't try to rope me back in, and we're not talking often.

Since I stopped initiating communication with her at the beginning of December, we've spoken twice, both time she initiated, both times have been using something else as the guise for her communication. She's afraid of me, and she shouldn't be. I finished being afraid of her about 3 weeks after we broke up.

What's going FZ? I'm sorry your going through this. I understand your confused and hurt and desiring explanations in this situation. But it's hard if not impossible to learn from your mistakes and correct them when you so emotionally wound up in them. You've got to institute NC now for YOU. Not for her. If I had a torch and every time you came near me I kept burning you would you keep coming back or leave and get your wounds healed? You'd leave. So why do you keep letting her burn you. She's not doing it physically, she's doing it emotionally and mentally. And you keep going back for more.

I really liked and appreciated what J9 did in post #4 so I thought I'd give it a try myself. Let's see if I can't offer you some suggestions or points of view on this NC thing.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

This is the first time i've ever behaved this way, i've been in 4 6month plus relationships, and this is the first time i've ever had somebody leave me.

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As you say next this is a learning experience for you. This is all new to you. We all get that but you can't wish your way or push your way into anybody's life. When both of you are emotionally wounded you must separate. If she can't leave you that's her problem. How can you ever heal her the burns you gave her if you can't take time to stop and heal your own wounds.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

This is a learning experience for me, and i still see the things she has to say as productive towards helping me get back on my feet.

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You couldn't be further from the truth. What she says has nothing to do with getting back on your feet. She might tell you things that she wants but that's so she can manipulate you when you hurt. If she really cared she would identify what bothers her and give you the space and time to go change it.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

I still beat myself up over some of the things i've done to her and allowed her to do to me.

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Your still beating yourself up. Your still burning yourself. Isn't it time for a break then for the healing to start? Instead of beating yourself up for anything why not admit your human, learn from the mistake and not do it again. Holding on to the emotional mistakes of the past leads to more emotional mistakes in the future. That is further complicated when your making these decisions in a highly emotional state like your currently in.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

She doesn't try to rope me back in, and we're not talking often.

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That's because she doesn't really care and she's seeing other people. Don't talk at all.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

Since i stopped initiating communication with her at the begining of december, we've spoken twice, both time she initiated, both times have been using something else as the guise for her communication.

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I'm confused? Who used who as a guise? And exactly how was that pulled off? What was the point of that? It sounds like game playing who ever it was.

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Originally Posted by ForeverZero

She's afraid of me, and she shouldn't be. I finished being afraid of her about 3 weeks after we broke up.

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Then why do you care if she's afraid of you? Why was there fear in a relationship to begin with?
Dude if you every plan on healing yourself start now by letting her go. Do some other things for awhile and let the emotions wear down. Then go back and figure out what happened and how not to do it in the future.

P.S. Chuff, don't know why the style struck you, Hmmmmmmm.

LOL

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As far as no contact goes, I've asked her to stay out of my life. She initiated the breakup, so I feel an obligation to listen to what she has to say to learn about myself. I also figure if she's going to disregard my wishes, it should be important to her. I doubt she'll have anything to say for a while anyway

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You have no obligations to anyone but you. She broke up with you and disregards your wishes to stay away from you. How sick is that, and no amount of logic will explain this abusive behavior. NO CONTACT AT ALL. Keyword... NO!!

Next question, towards the end of this month I'll be back at school with her, she's repeatedly tried to give me my things back, I've repeatedly told her to throw them away, I won't miss them. Her response is always " i don't want you to hate me because i threw your things out". I don't understand how she thinks after lying to me and doing all these twisted things that throwing my stuff out after I've asked her to is going to be what makes me hate her, but whatever. The question is how should I approach this when she comes to me about it? I want to leave the door open for reconciliation, but that's all. I'm not interested in playing games, but I also don't want to burn my bridges.

If you don't want to play games why are you playng hers? This whole relationship is a game and you leaving the door open keeps both of you playing. Good luck You deserve each other.

As much as I try to keep her out of my life, she still consumes my thoughts. I'm out meeting people and keeping my options open, but I still can't get her out of my head. She's expressed no interest in getting back together, she's seeing somebody else. I'm getting back into my hobbies and things like that, but it doesn't stop the thoughts and the pain. I just don't want to let go, and as much as I'd like to force myself, it doesn't seem to be working. Logically, everything everybody says makes perfect sense, but I can't force myself to not feel a certain way. No contact is good for cleansing the system, and that's why I'm looking for suggestions on how to handle her dealing with my possesions without breaking that.

My judgement is under question with this breakup. I can honestly say that I've never been wrong about my ex-girlfriend, but this whole thing has caused me to lose faith in my own judgement, so I figured I'd run a few things past you guys that I believe, despite how they sound.

To the questions. She cites me not being dependable as one of the big reasons she left me. I'd accused her of not being dependable several times, which she took to heart, in my opinion, because she felt like she was doing the best she could and I wasn't getting it. Her coping mechanism when faced with a problem is to bottle it up and hope it goes away. For all of those incidents, whenever I wanted to talk about it, to clear the air, and express how I was hurt and needed a little help with things like this, her response was always "what's the big deal, it happened to me".

She gave responses like that because she felt like I was attacking her, and I was looking to hold this over her head for my own personal gain. That's not true, but when your coping mechanism works like hers does, I'd see where she got that from. So I believe her when she said this.

She runs from all of her problems, that's a fact. When she broke up with me, she did it over a text message, and had looked for every excuse possible not to talk to me. She's also never approached me to explain herself, neither why she broke up with me or after she started seeing another guy, whom had been the one that helped her through the breakup.

Am I wrong to think she's just running from this problem too? She also pressed me to return my things to me afterwards, even after I told her to throw them out. I sincerely think we felt the same way for each other, and it took us hurting each other to discover that. Communication was the single biggest problem, whatever I was saying wasn't getting through, and whatever she was saying wasn't either. In explaining this to her, she doesn't believe me, and my judgement tells me because she doesn't want to.

She approached me the day after christmas to talk about my things again, I suspect she was really looking for an excuse to talk to me, but couldn't muster up to do it honestly. Here's where I really don't trust my judgement, and honestly it's because I hear the same thing from everybody, which leads me to believe they're right and I'm wrong. In this conversation, she told me she hated how when she looks at herself, she sees somebody that won't stand up for themselves, runs from their problems, and can't be honest about anything. She also tells me she thinks I'm not hurtful to somebody that's not a "fixer upper".

I believe this was honesty talking, and I believe this because I still believe her. Any evidence I have would be in the fact that on new year's one of my friends stole my phone and drunk dialed her, and ended up singing a song that was in the list of "our songs" She had one of her friends pretend to be the cops and call the phone back etc. I didn't say anything, and the next day she came clean about it and told me how sorry she was ETC.

LONG STORY SHORT - are these just things she's telling me so she can absolve her own guilt? Or do you suppose she sincerely believes what she's telling me? I understand this fits the bill for a woman's way of trying to convince me I'm better off without her to make me hurt less, but I still don't believe it. My judgement rarely serves me wrong, but I'm seriously confused now, and I'm the worst judge of anything.

Couple of other questions while my mind is on the subject

This other dude she's seeing reeks of a rebound. He's the complete opposite of me, and my judgement tells me she's using him to forget about me.

I also suspect her fear of commitment played a bigger part in this then she lets on. I think she saw the end of college approaching, and time to start building a future together, and didn't want that pressure, which tells me she'll hide in her party time lifestyle for a while, and once she graduates, she'll realize it's not as great as she thought it was. At this point, I suspect she'll start looking at the problems of this relationship, and a possible reconcilliation.

I ask these because I'm seeing somebody else myself, and I'm not sure I can go forward with any relationship until I have these questions answered. I've come to terms with the fact that she just may not love me anymore, and that's the premise I'm operating under, but my gut is nagging me, and I think I need to have a conversation with her to get all this off my chest. Just to feel like I did all I could for her.

Rehashing those things that are part of the past is an exercise in futility and will do you no good whatsoever. Leave her side of the street alone and worry about what goes on on your side. Worrying about her and what she is doing can only take the focus off you and the things you should be doing.

Given how you describe this girl, why aren't you just thankful to be rid of her?

If she can't deal with problems, can't be honest, and can't communicate... does it matter whether you believe her about why she broke up with you?

You already know she's not a keeper, so let her go and be glad you did.

I don't know she's not a keeper. I do know I have a lot of things to say, and I need to get them off my chest before I can feel like she's a waste of time. She's usually receptive, and will acknowledge when I say something of importance.

FZ, Since you already have your mind made up, and are going to do what you want, why are you asking us what you should do? Reread your other posts and see where your stubborn streak shows and the things you go through because your mind is already made up.

Move on with your life . When it is over it is over. Don't drag it out in any way. It only causes heart pain. It really doesn't matter what she said or how she thinks. It is over. Love is letting go and moving on. Don't be confused about how you feel. If you hurt moving on will help. Go have fun and live. This is the first day of the rest of your life, make it a happy one. Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow is waiting for you.

What I realize is that the closure I want can only come from her, and I'm probobly never going to get it. What I want to know is how can I achieve the kind of closure that is self provided? I feel like if I could reach a point where I feel like I did all I could, that'd be when I break. My new girl seems to think the only way I'm going to do this is if I just tell her everything I think, and walk away frustrated.

What if I wrote it all in a letter and mailed it? I think I'd feel closed and done, and it wouldn't leave her room to say anything that'd confuse me more. I'd also feel like I did all I could and weather or not it works isn't up to me. Does this sound like a healthier alternative?

You've got a new girl and still dwelling on the past? How unfair is that? Not healthy at all.

Realistically speaking I can't get what I want. I've accepted that, and I'm looking to close the book on my last relationship before I begin this new one. She's aware of everything that's going on and has helped me get through a lot of the worst spots. I told her I'm not ready for anything right now, and she's down with that for the time being. I'm looking to get rid of this feeling that there's something I can do about my last one, one way or the other, so that I can get out of this rut and start living my life again.

They way I see it your determined that this thing ends when YOU say so and not when she says so. She has moved on and your stuck until things happen the way you want them to.

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I'm looking to get rid of this feeling that there's something I can do about my last one, one way or the other, so that I can get out of this rut and start living my life again.

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Translate to your too stubborn to let go and in denial that its over. Full acceptance will free you from wasting your time, but sometimes we must run headlong into a brick wall before we figure it out. Make sure your honest with the new female and she is a rebound from a relationship you could not let go of.