I have been seeing the same woman for 5+ years. I have been suspicious of a friend of hers who I never met. She started spending allot of time with him last summer. I found out that she lied to me about going places and would see him. She said nothing went on even though I found messages from him asking her to leave me. We broke up and then she convinced me to get back together. She said he was gone. I found out a week later that it was not true and she was up to the same old game. I found out that she been sleeping with him. She said she needed a break to think of things and it was nothing to do with him. We decided on 2 months. She called 2 days later and then every few days. I finally said that I was partially wanting to get back. She seam happy and remorseful however I told her that I wanted her still to think things over so she was sure of her commitment. After hearing from her yet again I told her that she needed to be truthful no matter what. SHe said that she loved me but was not in love since last summer. I told her that it was funny that he started chasing her at the same time and trying to go out with her. She want to remain friends. I told her that the only way that might be possible is if she cut him out of her life. She said I was controlling, I said I could not be friends knowing he was seeing her and created some of the mess. She called for something uninportant the next day. I am confused. Aside from This she is a GREAT person. I miss her and LOVe her but I know that I could not date her. I was told that this was not the first time cheating on someone. I would like to see her happy but not with him. I also want her to realize how big of a mistake she has made.

I am confused on why she keeps calling when I know she is seeing him.

Both of you are obviously confused about what you want. Space may be what YOU need to decide if this woman/girl is someone who will make you happy in life. She has cheated before and will probably cheat again if she isn't willing to own up to her GIANT MISTAKE. She has lied and never cut that guy out of her life when she said she would. If you are "ok" with that then keep taking her calls. Will the paranoia not eat you alive? I know it would kill me (and the relationship).

Try to keep yourself busy with other things that make you happy. I would recommend not taking her calls for a while so she can re-evaluate what is important to her. If you decide to give her one last chance, do it on the contingency that you must take things slow. Gauge her reaction and decide what to do from there. You've got time on your side.

I can't trust her again. I am not mad about her cheating anymore. I am angry that she would still see him even as a "friend" She said she did not love him and she cared more about me. I said then it would mean something if you chose more or less . I guess I lost but I bet she will call again. I was upset enough that I wanted to tell the people that we know why we broke up. She wants it kept quiet. I sometimes want to tell her to never call me again. I do love hearing from her thought.

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Originally Posted by toronto guy

i can't trust her again. I am not mad about her cheating anymore. I am angry that she would still see him even as a "friend" She said she did not love him and she cared more about me. I said then it would mean something if you chose more or less . I guess i lost but i bet she will call again. I was upset enough that i wanted to tell the people that we know why we broke up. She wants it kept quiet. I sometimes want to tell her to never call me again. I do love hearing from her thought.

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As an outsider here is my advice: don't take her calls for a while. All the begging and pleading from you in the world will not make her leave this guy alone and choose you. If you truly disappear she will be FORCED to look in the mirror and decide what is right for her.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is if she makes the decision to continue seeing him are you OK with that? If that is the case maybe you can maintain a friendship or relationship. Obviously it's not OK for you right now though because you are here asking about it.


Then again, you are talking to a guy who frets over a lot smaller issues! Take what people say with a grain of salt (her included).

I have no doubt that she cares about you (or even loves you), but she NEEDS the time away from you to truly evaluate the things that are most important to her. You need it to. Seriously, don't take her calls for a while... make her wonder what you're up to. If you're there every time she wants you she knows she still "has" you.

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Originally Posted by toronto guy

i can't trust her again. I sometimes want to tell her to never call me again. I do love hearing from her thought.

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At some point down the road, I bet it will strike you as just plum crazy that you are taking the calls of a woman you can't trust and have no future in. That you are not there now is understandable. I hope for your sake you stay as grounded in reality as you seem to be here and that when you eventually do get there, you politely shut this circus down. Lesson learned.

PS - I would tell whatever version I thought was truthful and appropriate to whomever I was speaking... with no thought at all as to what it would do. It is your experience after all but that's not to be used for anything other than the lesson that is meant for you either.

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Aside from This she is a GREAT person

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She lies and cheats but aside from that..! Honestly I'd be long gone and would be unavailable for her calls or anything else. Does the word ignore ring a bell.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

She lies and cheats but aside from that............!!! Honestly I'd be long gone and would be unavailable for her calls or anything else. Does the word ignore ring a bell.

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I was thinking the same thing. She is anything but a great person. She's a user, a manipulator, a liar, a cheater, a few other things but I'm going to be nice today. Toronto Guy has 5 years invested in her though so it's understandable that he's still surprised and in shock over this whole thing. As Val stated, in time he will realize what is really going on here. Until then he needs to get rid of her and in time he will be happy he did.

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Originally Posted by toronto guy

I would like to see her happy but not with him. I also want her to realize how big of a mistake she has made.

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Spite. Normal, understandable, but not healthy.

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I am confused on why she keeps calling when I know she is seeing him.

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Oh, that's the easy part... she knows you'll answer because she still has power over you.

I am now going to go for not accepting her calls or any contact with her and her family and friends. I actually started by putting away all the contact info and erased numbers from my phone. I am putting away pictures also. It's a start. However, I was thinking of calling the guy that caused all this and telling him what to expect and what he may or may not know. I am not piss off as much with him anymore, I think that I could have used the head up before I went down this path. It apparently has been a repetitive thing with her. I probably doing this to piss her off in part. My turn to afflict some pain I guess. I then want no contact. Sort of the last say.

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Originally Posted by toronto guy

I am now going to go for not accepting her calls or any contact with her and her family and friends. I actually started by putting away all the contact info and erased numbers from my phone. I am putting away pictures also. Its a start. However, I was thinking of calling the guy that caused all this and telling him what to expect and what he may or may not know. I am not piss off as much with him anymore, I think that i could have used the head up before i went down this path. It apparently has been a repetitive thing with her. I probably doing this to piss her off in part. My turn to afflict some pain i guess.I then want no contact. Sort of the last say.

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Smart move about no more contact. Crappy move about that phone call to the guy...

1. He did not "cause all this" -- SHE did. What he's doing, what YOU did was tolerate it. This is a lesson in learning to see things are they really are.
2. Revenge totally backfires when you are in the company of gamers like this and worse, makes you as big of an idiot as they are!
3. There is no "last say" since they say something equally as crappy back, doh! "Big" people know when to end it.
4. What healthy people would be doing is quietly slipping away from these awful people knowing its pointless. Run Guy, run for your life here.
5. Otherwise, know that if you walk like a duck and sound like a duck, well, that probably means you are a duck! Not good.

You have a decision to make here but its more like this:
Are you going to be JUST like them, and play games or are you going to be NOT like them and distance yourself from it all?

Thanks for all the responses. Hopefully I keep my head and don't answers her calls. It may be hard at work(no call display) Should I say I am busy, I need time to get my head together, or plain old Don't ever call me!

I guess my emotions will keep me second guessing things for allot of time. I just have to try to stay strong and not buckle. Don't worry people, I know there is no future relationship possibility on my part. I however wonder what the future holds if I would or could be friends. I don't know why but I am pretty sure that I am over my anger part. I would not do it if he was in the picture but anyone else would be no problem.

If I could build a time machine. Would I move forward to get over things or go back and decided not to go out with her, maybe even try to do things different. Who am I kidding I would go and get the lottery numbers! HA! Ha!

One last thing. She has a daughter that just went to college (17). I have been in her life since she was 12. I still email and take her out and talk to her every month or two to see how she is doing. She has lots of friends and a father who keep in contact. I thought that I should keep seeing how she is and keep in contact. I know her mom has her email password and sometimes looks at the messages. Should I tell her this? Should I cut contact. There is no way that I would say or do anything to cause familly problems(totally against people who do that) However, the daughter knows that there was issues with this guy, she does not know about her cheating. She does know that she cheated on her father and told me to watch out.

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Originally Posted by toronto guy

one last thing. She has a daughter that just went to college (17). I have been in her life since she was 12. I still email and take her out and talk to her every month or two to see how she is doing. she has lots of friends and a father who keep in contact. I thought that i should keep seeing how she is and keep in contact. I know her mom has her email password and sometimes looks at the messages. Should i tell her this? should i cut contact. There is no way that i would say or do anything to cause familly problems(totally against people who do that) However, the daughter knows that there was issues with this guy, she does not know about her cheating. she does know that she cheated on her father and told me to watch out.

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Let the woman know you don't care to continue anything, wish her well and take no more calls. If you attempt to remain friends, you will get more of the same bad treatment GUARANTEED, Mister. Ex's make crappy "buddies" for obvious reasons. Even divorcing parents find it challenging and they have far far more reason than you do.

As for her daughter, since she is nearly an adult herself slowly turn this into you responding only when she makes contact and be sure to arrange for the topic of her mother to be fairly off limits. If she emails you, respond by saying you'd be happy to meet for coffee. Fact to face and public places only. You don't need to be closing a door only to let it in the window here. My guess is if you give her the chance, she will slowly drift away.

Puts all my cards on the table here and says with all due respect to the 5+ years you invested, if you find one more reason to remain actively connected to this woman I will be suggesting you look into codepedency for yourself, just so's you know, okay? Grief is one thing, codependency is all together different.

Puts all my cards on the table here and says with all due respect to the 5+ years you invested, if you find one more reason to remain actively connected to this woman I will be suggesting you look into codepedency for yourself, just so's you know, okay? Grief is one thing, codependency is all together different.[/QUOTE]

Codepedency, I did not know what that meant until I looked it up. Its scary, I fit a few of these points as does she. I am going to have to read up more on this. It could besomething that I was not aware of for myself.

Hi I just realized a new word. Codependency I was shocked to find that I fit some of the features.

What are some of the symptoms?

Controlling behavior
Distrust
Perfectionism
Avoidance of feelings
Intimacy problems
Caretaking behavior
Hypervigilance (a heightened awareness for potential threat/danger)
Physical illness related to stress

I have felt some of these once I suspected something was going wrong( she was cheating and she did it a few years earlier) I forgave her the first time and never controlled or brought it up again. 100% trust. Then The second time, I had suspected but no proof. I started being controlling( I was right about my gut feeling in the first place).
Overcourse during that time there was distrust.
I am a bit of a perfectionist, Not all the time.
I don't avoid feeling. I state them openly. I believe in if you don't mean don't say it and always tell the truth good or bad.
I don't avoid feeling. That was her department. ( she said her household you kept everything in and never cry)
Caregiving behavior. I am not sure. I do like to take care of things and be the one people rely on.
Hypervigilante, a scarry word. I did have anger towards the guy and we exchanged and threatened each other. After a few weeks it was gone. I thought I would still be pissed. I hope it stays gone. I hate being mad. I like to be happy and joke around. Most time I try to believe "Don't get mad at the things you cannot control in life"
Physical illness, I only had the stress parts, don't eat as often, don't sleep all night, Break out the first little bit.

Now I am not sure if I am trying to fit myself a into this or if its part true. I know sometimes people can get confused and read into things. Like a horoscope it can mean a dozen different things.

I would say no, It has nothing to do with your breakup.

You have listed all the symptoms of codependency, it seems that you developed some of these symptoms only when you lost the trust you once had.

Which has nothing to do with you but your ex partner.

Joe

Codependant people are usually like this when they have absolutely no reason to be. You've encountered problems with this girl before, and thus you have reason to be suspect. I'm sure I could fit the bill for some of the characteristics of a child molesting serial killer, when in reality I'm just a regular serial killer. (kidding) Don't concern yourself with things like this, she cheated on you, that's a reflection on her character, not yours.

I have answered all of these as yes. I am still reading up on them.

Codependency - The Questions


Do you find yourself making decisions based on other people's opinions?
Is it important to you that people like you and want to be your friend?
Do you have a strong desire to help others, but deep down you know you do it so that they will like or love you?
Do you seem to notice everyone else's problems and have a need to tell them what you think they should do to solve them?
Do you feel anxious, angry or upset when people don't do things you want them to do, or do things the way you want them to do them?
Do you find yourself in relationships where you do all the giving and the other person does all the taking?
Are you involved in activities that demand all of your time and energy and you are neglecting your family or yourself?

I think you think too much. Perfectionist and details will be your downfall because your trying to put a label on everything. Your going to drive yourself mad, or is that what you want. I feel sorry that this is the way your dealing with the breakup, but I can see why it has happened as well. Like I said before if the trust was not broken in the first place I do not think any of these questions would be in your head. Stop looking for blame and JUST ACCEPT IT.

Joe

Dude, look up symptoms of emotional abuse and tell me you don't fit the bill for some of them too. They're all vague and generalized questions. I'm pretty far from codependant, and I could answer yes to all these questions at times. If it really bothers you that much, go see a counselor. I don't think that it's your problem, but let a professional make that call for you. Hey, I just thought about that, and letting somebody else make a decision for you is a sign of codependance. You'd better stay away from those professionals!

I'm kidding about the last part, but I seriously think this is just an overreaction as your way of figuring out why your ex's problems were your fault.

I'm kidding about the last part, but I seriously think this is just an overreaction as your way of figuring out why your ex's problems were your fault.[/QUOTE]


I am beginning to thing that I have way too much time on my hands. I am fine when I am out but when it's the quiet times. I guess I think too much at those times. Somethimes you just have to talk things out to realize things. I can be my own worse enemy. Time is relative!

This is a natural phase of a breakup. When I hit mine, I thought I was emotionally abusive and controlling, you can even read the thread about it if you want. The reality is that you're going to suffer for a while and think things like this, but you're right, talking them out helps tremendously. Just take it as it comes.

I have to say. I stumbled on this site yesterday. Looking for answers. I am finding comfort,its filling some extra time not thinking directly about her. I am glad to know this is helping and I will stick with it reading and posting.

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

What happens when she cheats and goes off with the other guy. She cheated earlier in the relationship and in her previous marriage. I have heard once a cheater always a cheater. I think that she will do it in her next relationship and he will suspect something because of how he got her.
Half of me wants to see her fail. The other half wants to see her fix her life and find happiness with someone. In the end I am more for her finding what true love is where cheating never comes in her head.

I know I should not think about these things. Its like everything else. Ealy stages you think too much. Does anyone know what happen with there ex's. I will find my own happiness but I also would like to find her own.

It's possible that they can wake up and change... but I wouldn't hold my breath. It will happen on her own timescale, there is very little you can do to make her realise.

Just be there to help her whether she cheats or not, and don't judge her for it, that's the way you can be the best friend to her.

I wouldn't even worry about her. That's not your job. Work on yourself and let her worry about her. Once she chooses her bed she has to sleep in it.

People have the tendency of ignoring what's right or wrong when the situation that is morally wrong rewards them. As of now, her cheating on her relationships has only gotten her what she wants, and at very little expense to her, if she cheats, then what she has isn't that important to her. So if she is going to learn her lesson, it's going to have to be a hard one, when she's got nobody left to turn to, then she'll learn. Regardless of weather or not she does, it's not your problem.

I am curious now that we are over, should I keep in contact with any friends. There is three types of friends.
1. Friends that she knew first and I am friends with them and more so with spouses.
2. Friends we both met at the same time.
3. people we know through church, baseball etc.

I don't attend the same church ( she is united and I'm catholic) but we did take turns visiting each other churches. I even volunteer for many fundraisers as does she.
I joined another baseball league but still run into people we know.

So do I cut them all off. How do I decide.

What do I say if ask about the breakup. Some people ask what happened.

I know know that she has lied about who cheated in her last relationship and she said to people it was him.( a lie)

I digital pictures of my ex family some of them are b-day of kids, newborn shots and of her parents. Her mom past away last year. I am told no contact with her. However I told her a few weeks ago during the breakup that I would bring it to her or email it. This might start contact with her.

Should I send it to her brother and ask him to put it on disc and give it to her. She only has computer access at work and might be restricted on what she can open by the system. I took my computer with me so there is no access at home.

Should I keep copies for myself or should I also cut this out of my life.

If she wanted the pictures bad, she'd ask for them, or ask somebody else to ask for them, so don't worry about what she wants.

As far as you're concerned, right now destroying them would be a little too much for you to handle emotionally. What I did with all of the digital pictures of my ex, I upped them to my computer, then asked my friend to hide them in some assinine way that's so deep in the bowels of my computer that I'll never find them by accident. Then, if down the line, you want to see them, you got to ask them where to find them. Also helps to rename them so there's no search feature that'll help you find them when you want to. That way they're there, and if you trust your buddy enough to not let you find them when you're not ready, you won't. Just a thought. I haven't gone looking for them.

Here's the deal. You're not in charge of what she thinks. In fact, you're so far from caring about what she thinks right now, you're james dean. He may be dead, but that only further proves my point that he doesn't care. You do what you feel is appropriate, and move away from behavior that you plan on her response for. I would, however, advise that you don't talk about her to them. I'd guarantee everything you say about her will get back to her, and that's ALWAYS a bad thing. She needs you to be over her. She doesn't need to hear from her friends that you're depressed and miserable, because that'll just make her feel sorry for you, and lead you in a direction you don't want to go in. I did all this 2 months ago, trust me dude, I did all these things a few months ago, and I'm sure there's no shortage of people on here that'll tell you it's stupid.

Also, as far as when people ask what happened. The polite way of saying it's none of your business is to say "Ask her". If they're mutual friends, and care, they will. Your responses are going to be loaded and they will certainly get back to her. You need to not feed anything that's going to allow you to think that they might go back and be a middle man to rescue you.

Sending them via her brother is a good idea. That will get them back to her while preserving no contact.

Since you're not going to be involved in the lives of the family going forward, you don't need to keep the pictures. Do with them the same thing you would do with love letters from this girl... they're part of that phase of your life. If that means destroy them, first make absolutely sure that she has received them... breakups are painful enough without adding the drama of destroyed possessions to the equation.

I think I will use the brother. He has set me straight in the past and he is going through a breakup with his wife.

As for destroying the pictures. I am still thinking of keeping atlesast a few in storage. I still have some of some ex's from over the years. I just never look at them unless I am cleaning up storage. Maybe its good maybe its bad.

I just don't want to be seen as the person who did the cheating. That's what she said about her ex husband to people. Later I found out that it was her that cheated.

I think sending them to her brother is a good idea -- why hurt her whole family?-- save the pic`s you want/like --in a few years they will most likely bring good memory's
Breakups are hell but time heals and you might recall what you saw in her.

I am surprised that I have not heard from her yet. It has been a week. Last time few times we tried a break she called every few days. I know that she is now seeing this guy and I and a little upset that it's that easy for her. Instead of dealing with issues that she wanted to do and not be involved with anyone she has gone and started dating this guy. (well she was seeing him at the same time as me.) I guess I though this break up would be hard on her also. It almost feels like the last 5+ years has meant nothing. I am hope that she messes up the new relationship. It will give me some satisfaction.
I know it should be about me and I should not think about her.
Its sucks that she gets rewarded with no grief, a new relationship to help her not think about the old. I know that she will probably repeat the pattern.

I want to know how telling this new guy what he is in for with my ex. He is the one who has been cheating with her knowing that I existed and would call her cell phone and avoid the home phone. He promised many things to her and told her to leave me to go out with him.I know she is to blame to allow this to go on and finally falling for him. I have been in an argument with him over the phone when he called her cell phone to talk with her. He said that she should be with him. I more or less want to just tell him about her past and other things that he does not know about. It might make him think twice at best it might only cause some arguments between them much like he did do my relationship.

It will make me feel better at least in the short term. I can't see things making me feel worse then her cheating and saying she is not in love with me.

I know you say that this will hurt me but I can't see how.

Hhmph... you don't want her but you don't want nobody else to have her! Let him find out on his own how much of a B she is. You dealt with her to long let it go and move on.. let them do what they want, and be happy you now know what type of person she really is. And stop the arguing with him, your only making yourself look like a fool when she is the one feeling like 2 guys are fighting over her.. she chose him, so now you choose you and be happy by yourself! And even if you do tell him what type of person she is, its NOT going to matter, its obvious, she cheated to be with him, and he is the real fool if he thinks she won't cheat on him to be with someone else.. let it go!

He knows what she is like. It did not bother him to date her while she was still with you. I would say let it be. It is his problem now, not yours. She cheated on you, she may well cheat on him, and he may cheat on her. Think of that. Be glad it is not you.

Stay away from that drama.