My ex had a sorted childhood with grim details that I won't get into, lets just say Mom didn't always see the nicest of guys or ones who had high morals. She also has blackouts sometimes due to severe migraines.

A couple of months ago before we broke up she had a few blackouts one night. I picked her up, put her in bed and laid with her there for hours to make sure she was OK. After a few hours I decided to try and give her an orgasm while she was sleeping, the outcome was not what I intended nor expected. She doesn't believe me when I tell her I thought she was sleeping and she says that she wasn't sleeping but was blacked out. She accuses me of molesting her as she woke up while I was rubbing on her.

Now regardless of my side of the story and my intentions, in this situation her perception is what counts and in her eyes I broke her trust. We have since broken up and she has moved away. We still talk and love each other, love was never our problem, but now she doesn't trust me and neither of us know how to fix it. Now she had had these blackouts before and after this incident and nothing untoward had ever occurred then but it makes no difference.

I could really use some help with this, the love that we have is the kind of stuff you see in movies or read about in books. It moves mountains and shakes the foundations of beliefs, but without trust its just two people who can't be near one another because the one right now can only see someone who let her down and broke her trust even though it wasn't intentional, and even though the intentions were good the trust is still lost and the situation is unchanged.

Any advice or suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated here.

She is right, you took advantage of her. You have apologize. If she can forgive, but not forget, that's understandable, but to forgive, and get over it, takes time, and you just bite the bullet until then, and not repeat the behavior. Since she broke up with you, and moved away, leave her alone to get over this without you.

Your intentions were not good, and they were thoughtless, and cruel. Just to be clear. You are paying the consequences of your actions, the hell with intentions.

You did molest her. What is wrong with you? If you're trying to justify what you did... it's not working. What else did you do?

Also, I asked for advice, not a judgment. I feel horrible enough about this and have for over 4 months now OK. She only just left 2 weeks ago and this happened in May.

Also, I stated that she had blackouts before and after this and I did nothing. This was me trying to give her an orgasm while I thought she was sleeping.

If you have done this to other girls there is something terribly wrong. You asked for advice so here goes. If you take advantage of a woman when she is asleep or unconscious that is rape in my book. I think you need help. Is this the only way you can get turned on? You seek help now.

I also stated earlier that other girls I have been with enjoyed this and liked it. People are different and enjoy things that some don't. Do you tell gay men or lesbian women that they need help because of what they enjoy even though you don't?

And I asked for advice on how to fix the trust that I broke. That's what her and I want, I also stated that. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it wrong.

And if all you can do is judge me for something that you do not agree with I would appreciate if you would please simply stop posting to my question.

You are not a moderator and you cannot tell me or any other member here what to post. Please do not use the comments section to reply. Use "Post Quick Answer" below.

Didn't know that there was an answer section for the use of replies, never done this before but thanks for the tip.

As for your comment, I am well aware that I am not a moderator. And I didn't tell you what you could or could not post, I simply asked that if you could not see past your likes and dislikes of things, your opinion on what men and women should or should not do together, that you simply not post anymore. In no way am I telling you what you can or cannot say. I made a request and I made it quite politely. I came here to ask advice on how to fix a trust that I broke, not be judged for the issue that caused it. I am not judging you for your comments, replies, or answers. I have been civil, cordial, and respectful. I simply ask you to be the same or move along.

I've said numerous times that she and I "both" want to fix this and move past it but we don't know how.

She goes into counseling to come to terms with what happened. If she wants and accepts you going with her is up to her. If she is willing couple's counseling would be a good idea, too.

You come to terms with the fact that what you did was molest her. You are looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who hasn't been molested/raped/etc. To you, she should have gotten off. To her, you did what mom's 'boyfriends' did. Whether she was asleep, blacked out or passed out does not matter. She did not give her consent to the act. You took advantage of her incapacity in some cases that can be viewed as rape.

It doesn't matter what you did with women in the past. She is not one of them. They apparently do not have her history.

She must care for you a lot to have stayed after this. I don't think you are going to work through it as a couple until you fully understand and accept where and how you messed up. That you keep saying I did it to others and they liked it says you are on a personal level dismissing her past and reaction as irrelevant.

I sincerely hope you can work this out and you can regain her trust. It will take time, patience and hard work on your part.

Cat, thank you for the reply.

I'm not trying to use the "i've done it with other girls" line to try and justify or excuse why it happened, simply to inform of why it did. I am not dismissing her past or reaction as irrelevant. Her past, my action, and her reaction are precisely what have us in our current situation. You are right, when this happened I did not take into account the things that had happened to her which is why we are where we are at this time. I do understand this, I get it, I know that this is my fault, but I want to fix it, I want to fix us. Unfortunately we no longer live close to one another so a couples therapy wouldn't help.

Thank you again.

Dude, leave her alone to deal with herself, and her doubts on her own, without your influence, because YOU cannot fix this, only she can, LET HER.

That's how you deal with a conflicted person. You back off.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Dude, leave her alone to deal with herself, and her doubts on her own, without your influence, because YOU cannot fix this, only she can, LET HER.

Thats how you deal with a conflicted person. You back off.

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Have to spread the rep, but I totally agree.:)

I just wish to clarify...

A consenting female : one who approves or engages with your 'seducing'.

A NON consenting female : one who is unaware of and/or says no to your advances.

You may have done it with other girls, but you can't tell me 'all' girls are the same.

She done you an extreme privellege of just leaving.

The mental scarring of any sordid / morbid / unethical abuse of any description stays with women for life. Its something that isn't easy forgotten or forgiven. And it can take the smallest of actions to remind you of that horrendous past.

She may forgive you.. but she'll never forget.. and that trust will be if anything a never reaching goal for you. Because in her mind, you've destroyed everything she would have built up to protect herself.

Your lady friends have a habit of blacking out. Sounds a little far fetched to me. You have sex with women who are unable to say yes or no and you say they liked it? I'm skeptical about that statement.

No woman in her right mind would want to wake up with a man having sex with her without her consent I find it unbelievable that they were all right with this.

Kitkat you are twisting my words, never once did I say I had sex with them while they were unable to say yes or no, I said I tried to give them an orgasm, orgasms do not need sexual intercourse to occur. Have a habit of blacking out? Yes she does, she has severe migraines that come on due to stress and from health issues, these blackouts have happened for years before we met. And if you're skeptical about the statement go ask 10 men if they would like to wake up in the morning or in the middle of the night to their girlfriend/wife giving them oral sex or a hand job. Everyone is different and just because you may not like it, want it, or think that no one else will either does not make it the case.

And mystific I appreciate the response but only cat1864 and talaniman have seemed to grasp that I am asking for advice on how to repair a trust issue that has been broken and not judgment or opinions on the actions that broke it. Yes I messed up. Yes I know this. Yes I know it's my fault. Yes I understand that some people would not want that to happen to them. Yes I understand that some would. I get that I didn't think it through. I know some of you may think it was wrong and you may be right. I am in pain. She is in pain. We both want the pain to stop, fix this, and move on regardless if it can salvage the relationship or not. You don't like me? Fine, that is your choice and I respect that, I honestly do, but I am not asking you to like me or the choice I made. Right now I don't like me or the choice I made. I've felt more horrible than you can imagine for 5 months now and watched the love of my life walk out the door only for her to be away from me and tell me she wants to try and resolve this trust issue. I have hope that one day this can be fixed and even if we do not get back together that she will be able to at least trust me again.

So please, to anyone else who may read this thread, if you are going to tell me I am horrible, I do not need you to, I've felt more horrible than you can imagine about this for months now. If you're going to comment, judge, or give an opinion on the actions that got me to the point with her that they are now, I do not need you to. I am fully aware of why I am in this situation and what happened to get me there. I also am fully aware that it is my fault and that I messed up in a very large way on a very big scale, I get it. I am simply asking for advice from anyone who may also have broken someone's trust in the past and if they managed to remedy that trust, how they did it.

This website is called askmehelpdesk; not judgeme, doubtme, formopinionsaboutme, or thinklessofme. Please remember that when you go on to try and help someone else that unless they are specifically asking for your judgement on them, if they are on this website, they probably have enough problems as it is.

Thank you again for your reply mystific and talaniman.

I am talking from my own personal experiences. My post was that of an explanation as to the reason why you won't gain her trust back.

Long story short.. you won't gain her trust back. Because there will always be that nagging doubt in the back of her head. You may get back together and be together for months, you'll have an argument or disagreement and she'll have you right back at square one because you done this to her.

So please, rather than going on the automatic defensive read what is put properly.

Geez guy, what do you expect but peoples opinions? I highly suggest you drop the Mr. Sensitive defensive stuff, and take what you need from what you have gotten, and leave the rest. It gets you no where but shows the rest of us the level of your own mind, and to some (like me for instance) it casts doubts on your ability to process what the public thinks and keep a open perspective.

The whole point is no matter what you didn't come to argue or be judged, so don't act like it. If you do not understand the emotions that your actions have stirred up in strangers, then I doubt you understand the emotions this woman is going through.

For sure you don't know what to do about it, so just quietly listen, and don't be sensitive, or defensive. I think you can make some progress that way, at least more than you seem to be making now.

This is a difficult one but if you both want to get past it lets see how it can be done. I am not judging you so try and read through what I wrote, I am far from perfect but I think if you pause and really look at yourself and are able to feel the shame and revulsion you should be feeling that you will be a better person for it. Some people have no capacity to feel what others feels and with out that, they are beyond anyone's help and should be kept apart from the rest of humanity. Murders and child molesters fall into that category.

Sit down in a quiet place and write out how what you did effected her so grievously. What I mean is, it not enough to say you are sorry but that you must put yourself in her shoes and see your actions the way she sees them. That will take some compassion and empathy on your part and some pain if you are really sincere. You will have to go where she has been in her childhood and experience the evil that has been visited upon her. You will have to experience how you actions were reminiscent of that evil and how your actions have stirred up memories of being invaded and depersonalized. If you cannot feel the enormity of her pain at being sent back to that dark place by a person she trusted then I sincerely hope she stays strong and does not let you back in her life.

As you say it, you have done this before and got away with it, which is a testament to the capacity of women to deal with and tolerate men and their sexuality which is sometimes ugly. You should have been charged with sexual assault because that's what you did. You did not have the consent of the women you touched and yet you did it anyway. You did you did not consider not consider the woman you assaulted before and you are not considering this woman. Now is the time to do that, now is the time to become a helpless little girl and feel what it is like to be violated or a woman and feel what its like to have a man you trust use your body without your permission.

Give it time and feel it all. Now do you understand why people her have reacted the way they have to your request for help? I am not judging you, but I am asking you to judge yourself. You have no idea what you have done because you have not experienced the pain she has. When you say you have done it before to other girls, you realize that you assaulted women and you think that they should have great fun with it, you simulated a child-molester in your assault of your girlfriend and thought it was great fun. Can you blame the people here that they find you repulsive and what to get rid of you? You have no empathy towards women and that is dangerous and inhuman.

She is a survivor and she needs people in her life to be her protectors like the parents that were missing to protect that little girl. She will never get the unconditional love of parents but if she could get the love of a man who has the strength to go where she has been and to be as much of what she needs him to be as possible. She can enjoy her life now but she cannot have anything done to her that smacks of what she experienced in her childhood.

You did something that was criminal and morally wrong, Moreover you did it to a woman who has experienced unwanted sexual contact as a child - you were simulating a child molester for her. I am not saying these things to judge you but to try to get you to see how serous a violation you actions are.

Her leaving was a sign of strength, it is very difficult for abusers of child abuse to act on their own behalf but she did. If she asked the question I would advise her not to let you back in her life and I would support her very healthy move away from you. I would tell her to find a good strong man who will understand her strengths and weaknesses and who will stand with her like a man and protect her like a man and leave the criminal behind

You can't fix this because you most likely are not the right kind of man. If it has never occurred to you that touching a woman no matter what the nature of you relationship without her consent was wrong then you are not really good for anything,

If you have any redeemable qualities, simply try for understanding. When you understand really understand you should feel shame and disgust with yourself then you know you got it. After you experience that, then forgive yourself and vow to consider carefully all your words and deeds and mare sure you are not wronging anyone.

After you do those things come back and read these post again and if you still feel they have been unduly harsh don't bother to post again because you still don't get it.

This is harsh but you need a hard appraisal, if it makes you angry and defensive so be it. But all the reactions you got here is a fair and honest reflection of your effect on people. You don't get often so use it wisely. I hope you will take this in the spirit in which is is given, an attempt by one mortal with a fractionally clearer view of the situation to aide another with a very clouded view. I an equally hopeful that this woman can move on with her life without further contact with you.

Your concise post is so elegant - it took me paragraphs to try to say. I hope he gets it.

SEX is Sex... "Bringing a woman to orgasm is sex" Oral sex is sex! You don't have to have intercourse for it to be called sex.

First, please don't attempt to dictate who will and who will not answer your question and in what manner - it's a public forum. Expect a wide spectrum of responses.

I continue to be amazed that the very people who post the most "unusual" (for lack of a better word) behavior then turn into the most sensitive people on the Board.

I work in the legal system in NY. "Here" you would be guilty of forcible sex, possibly rape. That is basically sex with a person who is incapable of giving consent. I'm interested in a very basic answer - what pleasure did you get (or plan to get) from bringing an unconscious woman (sleeping, passed out, who knows) to orgasm? And this is routine for you? Next step is a date rape drug.

I would have had you arrested, boyfriend or no boyfriend.

This whole subject gave me the shudders - one step from Necrophilia and/or sex with a blow up doll.

And by the way - I was the victim of rape. He also "misunderstood" and thought I was protesting as part of the "sex game." He was wrong. I don't consent for any reason - it's sexual assault or rape.

NeedsHelp... I will say this about you, you are making yourself the victim here. No! I would not like waking up and find a man having sex with me, WITHOUT my consent. Maybe it's because I think a gentleman would Never do that. As far as sex goes, it's great! It's not great if we are asleep.

You were caught! You are sad because you were caught. I would love to know how many women you have done this to, without their consent. You are in need of help.

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Originally Posted by Needshalp

Unfortunately we no longer live close to one another so a couples therapy wouldn't help.

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Why aren't you living close to each other anymore?

To be honest, with counseling and being able to be face-to-face, this would take a lot of hard work for the relationship to survive and probably wouldn't.

Long Distance Relationships need a very strong base of trust to work and this relationship is already teetering. It may be best for both of you to end the relationship before things get worse.

I'm not going to judge you. I will keep my thoughts of this episode to myself. But unfortunately for you, your ex DID pass judgement on you. She felt what you did was totally inapproriate, and went as far as to accuse you of molesting her. And now you have not only betrayed her body, but her trust as well. Trust that probably took her a long time to gain especially coming from a sordid childhood as you stated.

Now the advice. You created this wall that you now have between the two of you, and if SHE wants that wall to come down then you are going to have to be very very patient. You cannot rush her. You can't question her, and you can't see her if that's what she wants. What I am saying is that you will never convince her that your actions had good intentions, you meant well, you were doing it for her, etc,etc. You need to respect her wishes now, and let her decide without any of your apologies, excuses, whatever, whether she ever wants to go back with you or not. I'm afraid it's probably all or nothing with her, so give her all the time she needs. But remember this, YOU put the two of you where you are today, not her. So if it doesn't work out, you are just going to have to figure out a way to live with the knowledge that you destroyed a relationship that had the kind of love that could move mountains..

There is one more little piece of advice I can give you. I would try to "learn" from the posts that you didn't like and felt you were being attacked because they can be the most helpful of all. Not just because they were written by highly experienced and respected people, but because if you can be convinced and believe that some people might consider what you did as wrong, immoral, and stupid, then you might also agree that you should never take liberties with an unconsious person again. Then maybe you WILL except responsibility for your actions and be a better person for it.

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Originally Posted by beachloverjohn

There is one more little piece of advice I can give you. I would try to "learn" from the posts that you didn't like and felt you were being attacked because they can be the most helpful of all. Not just because they were written by highly experienced and respected people, but because if you can be convinced and believe that some people might consider what you did as wrong, immoral, and stupid, then you might also agree that you should never take liberties with an unconsious person again. Then maybe you WILL except responsibility for your actions and be a better person for it.

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Good advice John.. I really believe this op gets off on taking advantage of sleeping or "passes out" females. I don't believe for one minute a woman woke up while being molested and joined in. Not for one second do I believe that. You need help OP.. you need Psychiatric help. I would strongly suggest getting help before you find yourself in Jail or something much worse.

I think the OP alluded to the fact that (I am giving my interpretation) he thought that since men like being awoken with a bj or hj in the AM that he was returning the favor by doing the same thing to the women.
I think he mentioned that it is an acceptable sexual practice in his mind.
I have that men do likes that but I have not heard of a man who felt moved to give his wife an orgasm while she slep as a reciprocal act. Can anyone enlighten me. I think men are usully reticent to proceed with sexual contact with their wives without their consent because they are so sensitive to rape issues.
I don't think that most men would think of giving a woman an orgasm while she sleep because they would feel like it was raping his wife. So I think a man may welcome a woman sexual touch to wake him up but there seems to be a natural inhibition to do that to a women I never thought of that. I do it to my SO on occasion but I never even had the thought that he would try to give me an orgasm to wake me up it probably never crossed his mind either. Seems almost an unspoken assumption or one that does not need to be discussed. Some things go without saying.

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Originally Posted by Allie602

I think the OP alluded to the fact that (I am giving my interpretation) he thought that since men like being awoken with a bj or hj in the AM that he was returning the favor by doing the same thing to the women.
I think he mentioned that it is an acceptable sexual practice in his mind.
I have that men do likes that but I have not heard of a man who felt moved to give his wife an orgasm while she slep as a reciprocal act. Can anyone enlighten me. I think men are usully reticent to proceed with sexual contact with their wives without their consent because they are so sensitive to rape issues.
I don't think that most men would think of giving a woman an orgasm while she sleep because they would feel like it was raping his wife. So I think a man may welcome a woman sexual touch to wake him up but there seems to be a natural inhibition to do that to a women I never thought of that. I do it to my SO on occasion but I never even had the thought that he would try to give me an orgasm to wake me up it probably never crossed his mind either. Seems almost an unspoken assumption or one that does not need to be discussed. Some things go without saying.

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I don't think men are reluctant to initiate sexual contact with their wives for fear of being charged with rape.

What Country are you in?

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Originally Posted by Allie602

I think the OP alluded to the fact that (I am giving my interpretation) he thought that since men like being awoken with a bj or hj in the AM that he was returning the favor by doing the same thing to the women.
I think he mentioned that it is an acceptable sexual practice in his mind.
I have that men do likes that but I have not heard of a man who felt moved to give his wife an orgasm while she slep as a reciprocal act. Can anyone enlighten me. I think men are usully reticent to proceed with sexual contact with their wives without their consent because they are so sensitive to rape issues.
[PHP]

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I don't think that most men would think of giving a woman an orgasm while she sleep because they would feel like it was raping his wife. So I think a man may welcome a woman sexual touch to wake him up but there seems to be a natural inhibition to do that to a women I never thought of that. I do it to my SO on occasion but I never even had the thought that he would try to give me an orgasm to wake me up it probably never crossed his mind either[

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/PHP]. Seems almost an unspoken assumption or one that does not need to be discussed. Some things go without saying.

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I don't think there should be a double standard here. No one, not a man or a woman, should ever violate anothers body, whether it be for their mate or strictly for their own personal satisfaction, while that person is sleeping, unconscious, not aware. It is very simple. If you engage in sex without someone's consent, then it is rape. And a sleeping person cannot give their consent.

I am going to say that there is a very big difference between waking your partner up by initiating (not performing) sex to enjoy following through together or stopping it and trying to get your partner off without waking him/her.

It is something that couples should discuss BEFORE either partner tries anything.

In this case, IF the op had thought about his wants and desires instead of acting on them, he would have realized that this is something SHE never would have consented to at any point.

There is a big difference between sleeping and being blacked out.

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A couple of months ago before we broke up she had a few blackouts one night. I picked her up, put her in bed and laid with her there for hours to make sure she was OK. After a few hours I decided to try and give her an orgasm while she was sleeping, the outcome was not what I intended nor expected.

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That's the crux of your problem, and her leaving was a consequence of your UNINTENDED ACTIONS and given the severity of her actions (moving away from you), and the time involved, between the event, and her moving (a few months), I highly suggest you leave her alone, to deal with her feelings, because obviously your way didn't work.