Hi everyone,

After being here for a while and reading and offering advice mainly on relationships I often hear the word closure used.

I know in essence what it means, but what I want to know is what does it really mean, and does one ever really achieve it?

For example when someone comes here seeking advice on a broken relationship, often people will advise them to go and ask the ex why so they can get closure.

Does this really achieve closure? In my book it doesn't. When breaking up with someone after a serious relationship I don't see how you can get closure. Sure you can move on but how are all you questions answered.

How does going to your ex and asking her to tell you why she felt the need to sleep with your brother give you closure?

You are always going to have questions like what if I did this, how did it get to that etc etc.

If closure is getting answers to all your questions then I think finding it will be a difficult task for anyone!

Much like a parent with a murdered son. You hear people saying I hope they catch the murderer so the parents can get closure. How on earth will they eve have closure on such a thing?

So, I agree that we are all capable of moving on and getting over ex's. That happens everyday, but as far as getting closure goes I just hate the use of the word.

Perhaps once you have moved on completely and know truly in your heart that you have, then that is closure, but as far a seeking closure goes then I just don't understand it!

Sorry for my rant, but I have just read it a few times lately and can't quite get it.

Someone fill this 'stupid' person in please!

You're not stupid! You have a good question.

I think closure isn't needed. Some people use closure as a way to get to talk to the ex, thinking that the ex owes them an explanation. But, in the end, it only adds more pain to be told again that you aren't wanted. The fact that your ex left you should be closure enough. Grieve, then move on.

Thanks Blaze. I know I'm not stupid. Please see link below as to why I used that word! LOL!

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/member...ple-49444.html

Yeah I agree Blaze about people saying they want closure often don't want it at all. What they want is another excuse to talk to the ex again.

I mean how does being told one more time that it is 'officially' over give you closure?

I think it does anything but. It just opens up more questions that don't have answers!

Would have given you rep, but I had to spread it around.

I wanted closure once. But now I realized it would spoil my view of the situation if I learned anymore. The fact that I'm single is closure enough for me.

However, the closure angle is a good way to guilt the ex into talking to you, if they had any doubt in the break up.

Well ill use an example for what I think closure is..
Currently my mate has been dumped by his girlfriend of say.. 10 months or something like that.
He won't leave her alone because her reason for doing it was "she can't deal with his emotional stress that he puts on her right now because she has a lot to deal with on her own", she had tried to kill herself.
Almost any guy would say OK I understand and back off.
He wouldn't.
And still won't.
He would ring her come over to her house and try to kiss her and touch her, he tried everything. Being romantic, being funny, making her pity him when he broke down in tears in front of her, and he's now only just getting over his latest phase of texting every hour to tell her he loves her so much she's so beautiful and he's praying for her.
Now come on, who else is gagging while reading about his actions?
What I think he needs, is closure.
Closure that no matter what he does, its over.
They aren't getting back together.
That's what he needs to hear, but the girlfriend is not saying it the way she should.. but that's a different story.
That's what I think closure is. Knowing that its over, its passed, and that its time to move on.

What more closure does this guy need? She told him its over!

So your saying if he goes to her one more time and she says, "im finished with you once and for all because I can't deal with your emotional stress right now because i have to deal with my own" your friend is going to get closure?

How is this any more closure than what he already has?

What more does he want?
I just don't get the whole thing!

On a side note your friend needs some serious help. Serious help. That isn't normal. He is obsessed!

I see your point Skell, and agree that in most cases, wanting closure is just wanting the exact opposite.

However, when someone is left in limbo, like they are not really sure if it is over or if it is not, and the one who has done the breaking up has not really made it clear enough, then meeting them to get the answer of "is it really over?" "or is this a temporary thing?" may be of benefit.

I think in some situations, some dumpees are left without a clear understanding of what is happening. I know with my situation it was quite clear, she (my ex) said clearly "I don't want to be with you anymore" then I said to her in a state of shock "I won't take you back this time, not after you broke up with me the first two times" then she said to me "I won't be coming back this time Geoff" which to me was quite clear and I had no real need for further closure as this was the closure. She said it to me in plain English.

Whether she will regret it later on has no bearing on the closure that she gave me by saying this.

Albeit, 5 days later when I eventually got her to tell me to my face (initially, she did it over the phone) she did give me mixed messages like "I just think we should leave it for a while" e.t.c. which obviously had my mind ticking over thinking is it really over??

But really, in essence, I had my closure, I know it is over and I do not need to meet my ex to get any confirmation of that at all. I know where I stand.

So what I mean is, if one is left in a situation of limbo where he or she have not really been clearly informed as to what is happening i.e. break-up (usually permanent) or separation (temporary-mostly) then getting closure may help the dumpee to begin the process of healing and moving on without questioning whether it is really over or not. This is the only time I would agree with trying to get closure.

Otherwise, I agree with the previous posts that you are just trying to hold on and don't really want closure at all. If you want closure, then it must mean that you want it to be made clear that there is no chance of getting back together and it is permanent. If you need this and this works for you, then there is nothing wrong with this but be careful and make sure you know your motives for doing it.

The flipside to this closure coin is this.

I don't think that any kind of closure is going to achieve getting any answers about why it happened or what if you did something different, would it have made a difference. If it is the 'Why's?' and 'What if's?' you are seeking in getting closure, then I say you need to go back to the drawing board and rethink what your true motives are.

:eek: :eek: :eek: Did I just write all that!!

I couldn't agree more Geoff. No one should be or deserves to be left in limbo.

And I agree that if someone feels they are being left in limbo then they have a right to know, and in my opinion should meet the person in order for clarification / confirmation or whatever you may call it!

But for someone to think this brings closure, I just struggle to agree.

But I definitely agree with you Geoff in respect to people needing definitive answers.

I suppose I think there is a difference between answers and closure.

I just thought...

I am grateful that my ex at least left me for the most part knowing where I stood. At least it has helped me progress with my healing and although I had my doubts, I would have had more doubts if she had left me dangling there like a rotting carrot :D

She is quite a stubborn woman though so I guess this was her style but I still have respect for it.. :rolleyes:

Perhaps this is just me starting to understand that she does not deserve to be blamed for all of this. My pain is not all her fault..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoffersonairplane

I don't think that any kind of closure is going to achieve getting any answers about why it happened or what if you did something different, would it have made a difference. If it is the 'Why's?' and 'What if's?' you are seeking in getting closure, then I say you need to go back to the drawing board and rethink what your true motives are.

:eek: :eek: :eek: Did I just write all that!!!

---

I particularly like this statement and couldn't agree more!

Well in my situation, I was left in limbo... ALL MIXED SIGNALS.. "Wait for me", "I hope you can be a part of my new place", "that's not true" (to now ever seeing him again), "I need a month", "I will call you", "hold on to my stuff"... now.. what is one to think with all that said... I think in my case, Closure would be for me to have my belongings back and to give back his and leave the relationship DONE... instead of this nonsense.

I think you may miss the point. You need confirmation that it is over, but will that give you closure?

Won't you be asking yourself more questions as to why, what you could have done etc?

You don't deserve to be treated like that and yes you need an answer, but does that give you closure is what I am asking?

Yes.. I think that would give me closure.. I don't ask myself the "what ifs" and "whys" because I pretty much know those already lol... but there is still that time that I have to exchange things and talk again.. so right now it's hard to just move on.. there was no "I don't want you anymore" said to me.. which would make me move on faster and hence give the closure.

Why do you need it to be said to you?

Surely his actions speak louder than his words in this instance?
He doesn't want you anymore. Its quite clear isn't it? Does him saying it make a difference?

So your saying you need to hear it from the horses mouth to get 'closure' as you put it?

Interesting. Im not arguing either, juts discussing it!

Yeah but from all those comments, does it sound like he doesn't want me anymore... umm... I would say no to that one.. lol... but who knows... I think it really depends on the person as to what "closure" is for them... everyone has a different meaning for it!

To be frank, yes it does sound like he doesn't want you anymore. If he wanted you, you wouldn't be waiting, you would be with him. Anyway, that's a different thread. Sorry!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skell

If he wanted you, you wouldnt be waiting, you would be with him.

---

That's how I know it's over. That's why even though my ex told me she was waiting for me to tell her what to do and never told me it was 100% over, I knew she wasn't coming back. Her not picking up that phone tells me she's done. I could call her and probably drag out some stuff I already know about why the relationship ended, but I don't want to go through that again. I have all the closure I need, and I've pretty much moved on.

Granted, not everyone feels or does the same things I do. I guess the people looking for closure are those who have been recently dumped. As they move on, closure loses its significance and ultimately becomes meaningless.

That's it Blaze. I think your right. All the closure you need and all the closure you'll get is knowing its over.
You don't really get any more answers do you?

That is up to oneself to think about and mull over!

That is when the most valuable lessons are learnt I reckon!

You can get more answers. But you reach a point where the answer they might give don't matter anymore. They are gone, you realize that, and you move on. Early on, everyone wants answers, but it's like a stage you eventually grow out of (NC helps a lot here!)

When you think about your relationship after its over, you see what you might have done wrong (as well as what your ex has done wrong!). You learn from that. If anything, my break up has been a wonderful learning experience, not only about myself, but about people and living life.

This is a really great question, Skell!

Interesting topic about Closure.. I know my case was perhaps different but closure really happened and it was good for me.
So May I got the "i need to be alone "then during that week I got a "we need to talk" so went back home and he could not talk!! So I had to try and drag something out of his mouth and then it was just about the wedding that he was not ready , then he left home to be alone, 2 weeks later I get another lets talk this weekend , but when I met again he could not tell me anything and kept saying there was hope and if I was not so nice he would have believed it was all over and that he needed to be alone to find himself again. Well after 4 months of patience from me I finally got my closure in October! So closure did happen and was needed in my case.

Also closure for me is a nice way to just talk face to face without any bad feelings and in a mature way and wish each other the best.

Sorry if this gets too long and boring!

There were so many questions going through my head too Skell, like what ifs? And whys? Etc etc

My ex said he loved me but he wasn't in love with me, we were different from each other, we weren't right for each other, it might be easier if split up now rather than further down the line. He also said he couldn't offer me much, I deserved someone special etc etc. My head was so mixed up with everything. I stll think about things over and over again but not as much now.

I think closure can be a good thing and a bad thing in a way. I guess you have to accept it is over and basically close the case if you like. I guess it feels better if things are at least on good terms.

It is always good to here what people think.

So WAP also agrees with me that "it feels better if things are at least on good terms. "

Im wondering if this is just a female thing?

What about ye guys? Would that not be closure for ye?

I find that it still helps to talk about things like closure, or in fact anything about the break up. I have stopped talking to my friends about it now. I didn't speak to my family that much about it. I think people you know just kind of forget about it after a couple of months and assume you are OK.

Exactly, I'm like you wap, I don't talk to anyone about it anymore either.

Anyhow happy Christmas to all!! I'm off to Ireland tonight so I won't talk to ye until next year!

Some people need closure to accept things as they are and move on. With out it they cannot accept the fact that this relationship is really over and they should move on. Its like being stuck on stupid and not knowing what to do. With closure we can at least acknowledge the fact that things have changed and so must we. Not everyone needs closure, as some of us just accept things at face value with out the why? And what if? And are ready for change. Everyone is different.

Personally I don't think you ever forget a break-up or how it feels.
At the time it's happening closure isn't something that can always be achieved, especially if there are things that have been left unsaid.

When I was in my 20's the man I thought was the 'love of my life' dumped me telling me much the same as Wap's ex told her. I wanted to sort out all the 'why's', but it never happened as my hurt took over. We met again 20 years later and were able to talk about it logically. He had regrets, but I'd moved on and didn't want to go back.

I don't feel I've had closure in my latest break-up, but digging for it will make it worse. The NC rule is working fine for me, and to be honest after what has happened, this closure is never going to come from us being friends.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imation

well ill use an example for what i think closure is..
currently my mate has been dumped by his gf of say.. 10 months or something like that.
he wont leave her alone because her reason for doing it was "she can't deal with his emotional stress that he puts on her right now because she has a lot to deal with on her own", she had tried to kill herself.
almost any guy would say ok i understand and back off.
he wouldnt.
and still wont.
he would ring her come over to her house and try to kiss her and touch her, he tried everything. being romantic, being funny, making her pity him when he broke down in tears in front of her, and he's now only just getting over his latest phase of texting every hour to tell her he loves her so much she's so beautiful and he's praying for her.
now come on, who else is gagging while reading about his actions?
what i think he needs, is closure.
closure that no matter what he does, its over.
they arent getting back together.
thats what he needs to hear, but the gf is not saying it the way she should.. but thats a diferent story.
thats what i think closure is. knowing that its over, its passed, and that its time to move on.

---

This from personal experience of acting (ashamadly like your friend) has nothing to do with closure.

1. Closure is someone wanting to understand what they did wrong, so they can learn from it. i.e. its because you did this, said that, slept with her... lol.. etc...

2. Your friend is unable to break his emotional connection with this person and cannot break this connection without first realising this!! He is in a fight stage to keep the relationship from going, he cannot see that it is gone. He is acting in a high emotional stage, on emotions felt. You cannot reason with emotions because they are irrational.

3. Look at the article on NO Contact posted previously by myself. Your friend needs to read this. He needs to emotionaly step back from the connection he has with this girl, only then will he be able to see the wood for the trees and be back to his normal self.

4. If your post is genuine, please get him to read this and by all means to talk to me.

Regards

4answers.

Ok imation your friends needs help... he had his closure. In more than one way or another. Wouldn't blame her for the suicide thing. But the closure thing is kind of a base to base thing. Some have it right in front of them and others don't. I had a simualr thing with my ex. She left 2 weeks before the wedding after a 5yr relationship. And like most people would ask the one simple word "WHY"? Well never got it answered in anyway. Me being simple u can't fix a proub if not knowing what the proub was. It ate a lot of my time up woundering why. But to any body out there sometimes a answer is good even if it is F^%$ Off would be an answer. But being to aggressive is not good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4answers

This from personal experience of acting (ashamadly like your friend) has nothing to do with closure.

1. Closure is someone wanting to understand what they did wrong, so they can learn from it. ie, its because you did this, said that, slept with her ...lol.. etc...

2. Your friend is unable to break his emotional conection with this person and cannot break this connection without first realising this !!!!! He is in a fight stage to keep the relationship from going, he cannot see that it is gone. He is acting in a high emotional stage, on emotions felt. You cannot reason with emotions because they are irrational.

3. Look at the article on NO Contact posted previously by myself. Your friend needs to read this. He needs to emotionaly step back from the connection he has with this girl, only then will he be able to see the wood for the trees and be back to his normal self.

4. If your post is genuine, please get him to read this and by all means to talk to me.

Regards

4answers.

---

The problem is... that is his normal self. He was like that throughout the entire relationship and his actions haven't really changed since the split.

I think the word "closure" is over rated... It seems to me to be a way for us to look for answers to things that went wrong in our relationships, but there isn't always an answer for it. People can't always explain why feelings change, but they really "just do". The word "closure" to me means... why things ended, or went wrong. To others, "closure" is justification to the end, and I don't think that is totally fair. A lot of times "closure" just gives us the strength to move past a painfull experience, when it should be something that teaches us what is really imortant and how to better ourselves. I believe that a lot of times we look for too many answers instead of just accepting that "it just didn't work out" this is the time where we drive ourselves CRAZY in looking for answers and punish nobody but US! Think about it... What is closure? MOST of the time it only happens when we find out somoene was cheating, or left us for someone else... Is that really "closure"? I think not... It really seems to be more of a "justification to the end". A lot of people NEED "closure" (including me) to move one, but why? It seems to be a waste of time to look for answers because it really only does more harm than good, you just end up hating the person. It really appers to be part of the healing process. "Closure" is something that we create to help us move past the hurt and enter into the next phase of recovery. I think the longer one looks for "closure" the longer they prolong their recovery.

clo·sure /ˈkloʊʒər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kloh-zher] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -sured, -sur·ing.
–noun 1. the act of closing; the state of being closed.
2. a bringing to an end; conclusion.
3. something that closes or shuts.
4. closer (def. 2).
5. an architectural screen or parapet, esp. one standing free between columns or piers.
6. Phonetics. An occlusion of the vocal tract as an articulatory feature of a particular speech sound. Compare constriction (def. 5).
7. Parliamentary Procedure. A cloture.
8. Surveying. Completion of a closed traverse in such a way that the point of origin and the endpoint coincide within an acceptably small margin of error. Compare error of closure.
9. Mathematics. a. the property of being closed with respect to a particular operation.
b. the intersection of all closed sets that contain a given set.

10. Psychology. a. the tendency to see an entire figure even though the picture of it is incomplete, based primarily on the viewer's past experience.
b. a sense of psychological certainty or completeness: a need for closure.

11. Obsolete. Something that encloses or shuts in; enclosure.
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) 12. Parliamentary Procedure. To cloture.


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[Origin: 1350–1400; ME < MF < L clausūra. See close, -ure]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
clos·er1 /ˈkloʊzər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kloh-zer] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person or thing that closes.
2. Also, closure. Masonry. Any of various specially formed or cut bricks for spacing or filling gaps between regular bricks or courses of regular brickwork.


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[Origin: 1350–1400; ME. See close, -er1]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source clo·sure (klō'zhər) Pronunciation Key
n.
The act of closing or the state of being closed: closure of an incision.
Something that closes or shuts.

A bringing to an end; a conclusion: finally brought the project to closure.
A feeling of finality or resolution, especially after a traumatic experience.
See cloture.
The property of being mathematically closed.

tr.v. clo·sured, clo·sur·ing, clo·sures
To cloture (a debate).


[Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin clausūra, fortress, lock, from clausus, enclosed; see close. Sense 4, translation of French clôture.]


(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source clo·ture (klō'chər) Pronunciation Key
n. A parliamentary procedure by which debate is ended and an immediate vote is taken on the matter under discussion. Also called closure.

tr.v. clo·tured, clo·tur·ing, clo·tures
To apply cloture to (a parliamentary debate).


[French clôture, from Old French closture, probably alteration of closure, closure; see closure.]


(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source closure

noun
1. approaching a particular destination; a coming closer; a narrowing of a gap; "the ship's rapid rate of closing gave them little time to avoid a collision" [syn: closing]
2. a rule for limiting or ending debate in a deliberative body
3. a Gestalt principle of organization holding that there is an innate tendency to perceive incomplete objects as complete and to close or fill gaps and to perceive asymmetric stimuli as symmetric
4. something settled or resolved; the outcome of decision making; "the finally reached a settlement with the union"; "they never did achieve a final resolution of their differences"; "he needed to grieve before he could achieve a sense of closure" [syn: settlement]
5. an obstruction in a pipe or tube; "we had to call a plumber to clear out the blockage in the drainpipe" [syn: blockage]
6. the act of blocking [syn: blockage]
7. termination of operations; "they regretted the closure of the day care center"

verb
1. terminate debate by calling for a vote; "debate was closured"; "cloture the discussion"

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source
Main Entry: clo·sure
Pronunciation: 'klO-zh&r
Function: noun
1 a : an act of closing up or condition of being closed up <closure of the eyelids> <early closure of fontanels and sutures —W. A. D. Anderson> b : a drawing together of edges or parts to form a united integument <wound closure by suture immediately after laceration>
2 : a cap, lid, or stopper for sealing a container (as a serum vial)
3 : the perception of incomplete figures or situations as though complete by ignoring the missing parts or by compensating for them by projection based on past experience

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
On-line Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source
closure

closure: in CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary

On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98 Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB
Free On-line Dictionary of Computing - Cite This Source
closure 1. In a reduction system, a closure is a data structure that holds an expression and an environment of variable bindings in which that expression is to be evaluated. The variables may be local or global. Closures are used to represent unevaluated expressions when implementing functional programming languages with lazy evaluation. In a real implementation, both expression and environment are represented by pointers.
A suspension is a closure which includes a flag to say whether it has been evaluated. The term "thunk" has come to be synonymous with "closure" but originated outside functional programming.
2. In domain theory, given a partially ordered set, D and a subset, X of D, the upward closure of X in D is the union over all x in X of the sets of all d in D such that x <= d. Thus the upward closure of X in D contains the elements of X and any greater element of D. A set is "upward closed" if it is the same as its upward closure, i.e. any d greater than an element is also an element. The downward closure (or "left closure") is similar but with d <= x. A downward closed set is one for which any d less than an element is also an element.
("<=" is written in LaTeX as subseteq and the upward closure of X in D is written \uparrow_\D X).
(1994-12-16)


The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2006 Denis Howe
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source
closure [ˈkləuʒə] noun

an act of closing
Example: the closure of a factory Arabic: إغلاق، إقْفال
Chinese (Simplified): 关闭
Chinese (Traditional): 關閉
Czech: (u)zavření
Danish: nedlukning
Dutch: sluiting
Estonian: sulgemine
Finnish: sulkeminen
French: fermeture
German: die Stillegung
Greek: (οριστικό) κλείσιμο
Hungarian: bezárás
Icelandic: lokun
Indonesian: penutupan
Italian: chiusura
Japanese: 閉鎖
Korean: 폐쇄
Latvian: slēgšana
Lithuanian: uždarymas
Norwegian: stenging, lukking
Polish: zamknięcie
Portuguese (Brazil): fechamento
Portuguese (Portugal): encerramento
Romanian: închidere
Russian: закрытие
Slovak: uzavretie
Slovenian: zaprtje
Spanish: cierre
Swedish: stängning
Turkish: kapa(n)ma

Closure has different meanings to different people in different circumstances. It is an important aspect to "moving on" in this world. When my cousin's son was missing for 42 days, with prayed for closure. When we found him dead in the Brooklyn River, we were able to find closure in not worrying anymore about him being alive or dead or possibly tortured by someone. Closure for our family meant that we will always wonder what happened to him. But we were able to bury him. And remember him with love and regret. Not knowing where he was or if someone was torturing him was unbearable for us. For me, I found closure in knowing that he was now safe in the palm of my god's hand. I no longer fear for him. Whatever had happened. It is my hope that someday, someone pays for it. But I have found closure in knowing that he is no longer tortured.