Is it usual for a man to hypothetically propose? Are they trying to be confusing? Are they THAT confused themselves and just saying what comes to the top of their head, not considering that the person holding their hand, may be listening, wondering if she should answer, or is this just another crazy scheme to pull at her heart strings because he feels threatened he might lose her?

Yes, I wanted to marry him, and slowly started losing interest in spending the rest of my life with him. But, when I told him that marriage no longer was our issue, but his insecurity was killing us by trying to cultivate situations, teasing my womanly instincts,( it was like he wants to prove to me, I still want him FOREVER). I saw this as childish and insecure, and dismissed his empty gestures.

We went to counseling in the past, (why he wanted to go is beyond me, he always left saying he does not want to change and doesn't feel he should... I was always like: then why in the hell are we doing this?) and all that came from the sessions was how his words did not match up his actions, contradictory feelings verses ideals, etc... The relationship grew exhausting for me. I never met a man so prone for drama. (I blame where he is from: Spain. I think they love tragedy there.) I'm basically, looking for a self-reflective closure. I don't want him back. I loved him with all I know, but man, I can't say I would do that to myself again. I'll choose "lite love" over "thick love" any day. I do need to forgive him and myself. I need to forgive that I feel he was cruel and insane and I need to forgive that I stayed in it as long as I have... I guess I want validation.

What is your question?

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Originally Posted by ilikemyhumanraw

Is it usual for a man to hypothetically propose? Are they trying to be confusing?

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I'll say no in both cases. My take on it is such "boys" are so afraid of rejection they "test the waters" to gauge a likely response, almost as if asking your permission for them to be asking. "Men" ask straight up and then the two of you will either have a Hallmark moment, or not... and he'll crash and burn gracefully. Pussyfooting around a proposal isn't done by secure men.

Hmmm. Well, I suppose my question is in the subject heading... But, you need not reply if my post does not make sense to you.

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Originally Posted by ilikemyhumanraw

Hmmm. Well, I suppose my question is in the subject heading...But, you need not reply if my post does not make sense to you.

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Guys are usually straight up. Something as marriage shouldn't be as confusing to them, its either they want to or not ready.

@Scleros

I would have to agree. I was dealing with a Man-child. Family and friends were dumbfounded with my breaking up with him, but I couldn't bare enduring with his flippant words being dashed around, with no meat to the matter. What a cad.

@none12345

Honestly, I don't think anyone is "ready" for marriage. It's never what people expected and truth be told, it's more a biological pull if anything else. I'm supposing, I just want to buy a house, instead of renting~however silly the metaphor may be, even rent-to-own has a better ring to it...

Lack of confidence

Yup you said you don't want him back anymore so there's point in dwelling on it anymore is there?

Indeed. A man that means what he says and says what he means, would be a nice change of pace.

*Dwelling on it, is a form of reflection from making similar mistakes continuously. I will dwell on all the loves in my life, living in regret will not be my problem, as long as I have thought it all through. I'm just looking for a big brother point of view, something with frankness, that can be understood on many levels. I want to know, why would a guy say things that would build and destroy, and seem to be hopeless in his explanation to why he says things and then goes on to say he did not mean it... Do you know friends like this? What do you think is behind this behavior? Is it psychological? I hoped that being in your 30's would bring some amount of emotional maturity. I'm realizing this is a over assumption on my part.

Maybe he wasn't proposing at the time or your reaction caused him to back-peddle and say it was hypothetical.

I think you may want to reflect on how much drama you might be responsible for in the relationship. From your writings here, I think you have a good bit of drama in your own personality.

Er, you were considering accepting a marriage proposal because you don't want to rent on your own?

No wonder the guy posed the question as a hypothetical he probably didn't want you to accept! I would question your attitude to marriage and relationships as well as his. Marriage is not just a 'biological pull', or an excuse to buy a house. Marriage is not just a convenience.

Relationships are mirrors. You can't analyze his reactions and responses in isolation without looking at your own. If he didn't mean what he said then perhaps you didn't say what you meant. Perhaps you were both immature and confused about what you wanted from a relationship, and you found each other and acted out each other's dramas.

True. I'm not a robot emotionally and I will respond with the predicted candor when called upon, but seriously, I think you may be reading into my style of writing verses content of what I'm actually trying to be validated on, which is human behavior and the possible reasoning behind actions/non-actions.

Yes. It may be said, drama is not escapable in anyone's life. Some people like "good ole' time country drama, with Billy Bob crowin' for Velma." or "a Woody Allen, pleasant neurotic, jazz off the side, boogle-loo," either way, no one writing on these types of threads can escape "drama." Life is a drama and I'm in for a critic here>> on my co-star's performance... For two years, I have blamed myself, for misunderstanding him, being patient, waiting for him to figure himself out, so yeah, this is my soapbox to question what it all means... For now, I just want to learn more about, brainstorm, analyze, why peoples say those things. Let's keep it simple for now. I'll look at my end, when I have connected all the dots.

Thanks for your replies...

@Gemini54

Sorry, but the metaphor may have been misunderstood... I was referring to emotional investments, but I did not mean "literally" buying a house. (I love metaphors, so forgive me.)

My relationship was by no means convenient. Actually, he was the most inconvenient partner I have ever experienced. We got along very well majority of the time together and "seemingly" loved each other, devoted, attentive, etc... But, our relationship also posed an expiration date. Marriage posed an answer. I tried to break up 3 times, the 4th is successful thus far, because I felt like, we should build a life together, we should marry. He didn't want it. Then, I got to a place within myself to want what he wanted, devoted love, without impending marriage. I was so proud of my growth to love without conditions, then like a kid playing games, he messes with my heart and mind and asks me to marry him, then takes it back... I was so disappointed that he would want to play this roller coaster ride and to push me on it emotionally, because it was just then I realized he must not love me. He's all tourist and I was his blind guide.

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Originally Posted by ilikemyhumanraw

@Gemini54

Sorry, but the metaphor may have been misunderstood...I was referring to emotional investments, but I did not mean "literally" buying a house. (I love metaphors, so forgive me.)

My relationship was by no means convenient. Actually, he was the most inconvenient partner I have ever experienced. We got along very well majority of the time together and "seemingly" loved each other, devoted, attentive, etc...But, our relationship also posed an expiration date. Marriage posed an answer. I tried to break up 3 times, the 4th is successful thus far, because I felt like, we should build a life together, we should marry. He didn't want it. Then, I got to a place within myself to want what he wanted, devoted love, without impending marriage. I was so proud of my growth to love without conditions, then like a kid playing games, he messes with my heart and mind and asks me to marry him, then takes it back...I was so disappointed that he would want to play this roller coaster ride and to push me on it emotionally, because it was just then I realized he must not love me. He's all tourist and I was his blind guide.

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I do undesrtand some of what you're saying, but I go back to my original post.
Relationships are mirrors and we don't engage in them in isolation to the other person.

What I still hear in your words is that marriage 'posed an answer', you felt that you 'should' marry and build a life together. There is no certainty in the language that you use to describe your situation.

I sense that his response - asking you to marry him then withdrawing the offer - simply reflects back to you your own inner uncertainty about the relationship.

His actions cannot be considered as separate to the dynamic that you had also created.

Yeah, I like your mirror metaphor and I'm thinking about it. Can you go into that a bit more, it's striking a cord within me, but I need more examples.

So, do you mean, we are BOTH reflecting uncertainty about our relationship? The strange thing about this is, he never wanted to leave me, never wanted to break up, but I told him I thought he was being selfish, because he wants me to be there for him, but then after his contract with his research is over, he can cast me aside, and write me off as his American girlfriend. He would say that his career meant more to him, but after a break up, he would say science, life, meant nothing without me. I'm having a hard time swallowing that I somehow reflected that wishy washy mind set.

Wait! Thanks Gemini54, I found a site about Life Mirrors by Dr. Wayne Dyer...

The Mirror of Life

Good stuff!

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Originally Posted by ilikemyhumanraw

Wait! Thanks Gemini54, I found a site about Life Mirrors by Dr. Wayne Dyer...

The Mirror of Life

Good stuff!

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Ah, the internet. Such a wonderful place! Keep looking. I have to go to work - so enjoy your journey of discovery.

To give you another point of view... When I started thinking of marriage with my last ex, I was direct about my intentions, however I started losing confidence in the reasons she would have married me. It felt like she was grasping at marriage (to anyone willing and somewhat presentable) instead of being so in love she just had to marry me. See the difference? It did make me feel insecure. Then her conditions for marriage started presenting themselves, sometimes jokingly, sometimes serious. For example "you can't eat tuna when we get married because it stinks" and "are you going to get fat if we get married?"(I gained 10 pounds in the two years we dated cause I stopped working out so much). It was that kind of endless crap that started driving me to say "do you really want to marry ME, or do you want to just be married?"

Drama begets drama until everyone is too tired to care.

Thanks for your point of view...

I was careful with my words in this past relationship. I had to be careful, due to the fact his second language is english. I told him I would live in a Yurt, follow him to the ends of the earth, leave all my possessions behind, and wanted to get old with him, that was the biggest part for me. I did not want to miss a moment of our lives together. I felt I could withstand any obstacle in my life as long as he was by my side. After trying to break up a few times, I decided I needed to think about what mattered to me. I finally got to a place of accepting impermanence in life and love, and told him, I wanted to be with him, regardless, and would stay with him until he had to leave (which could be a yr or two from now.) I to isld him if we didn't marry, in any other case, I would not even be interested marriage. He knows I loved him. He and others referred to our level of caring for each other like family. We were very close and that is why I do not understand, how could he play with my emotions, with no concern how he was making me feel.

But, in order to do that, you do have to detach yourself emotionally, refocus, step back, etc.. It is my belief he was starting to panic at my pulling back, and reacted in a way by creating circumstances or situation that involved female friends of his. (I recognized it immediately for what it was and called him out on it.) He admitted that he gets pleasure to push my bottons, which I saw as his repressed adolescent experiences, that we all exchanged during high school.

Yes. So, now I'm exhausted and just picking up the pieces, to clean house so to speak... "The Accidental Tourist" chapter in my life is drawing to its close.

Maybe the pressure to get married scared I'm off, he might have been thinking out loud and scared himself. Maybe once you backed off he started to come round to the idea but he might take a little longer to warm to it.

OR

He might just be one of those men who love to chat but it all means nothing. All talk no trousers... I had a man like that, loved to talk but never did the actions...

For whatever reason, you two were not compatible so it just not working for you.

Get out of each others lives, and heal, and regroup.

@destiny09

Yes. Unfortunately it was the second "OR" scenario I think I experienced. It felt very unhealthy to be with someone who spoke that way. I hope to be more alert for signs with this tendency, it ended up be a royal waste of my heart and time.

Even though they are that way you always live in hope they will follow it up but they never do or rarely do. It's a shame because I am still hung up on my guy even though he is no good for me in so many ways, you can't help who you love, faults and all but eventually you have to realise loving yourself is more important

@destiny09

God, do I know it... I hoped he was just trying to figure things out, but I later understood that he "had" figured things out... What he figured out was how to get as much love from me as possible, without giving me any feeling of stability in the relationship. He had great tactics to manipulate my mind and my heart, but I'm seriously glad I didn't stay with him any longer than I had... My mantra is a Dalai Lama quote: “Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.”

But can you stay away from him and go NC or does your heart tell you soemthing different... thats where the problem starts

I think the best thing to do is "processing".

Yes, you're correct in that, when you don't follow your heart, something within you feels ill and wrong... But, drugs can cause the same effect. And we all know where I'm going with that scenario, but the problem is loving someone who doesn't love you...

So, wanting who wants me, might be a good perspective to moving onward. I decided to try to love someone else...

A good place to be coming from- love yourself first.