OK, here's the situation. I have been with my fiancée now for 1 year 2 months and 15 days. Just two days ago, she cheated on me for the third time, but before passing judgment, please read ahead. The first time was like two days after us officially dating, and she was stone drunk. The second time, was 6 months after us going out, and she was with her friends, again stone drunk, but her other "friends" (who are females) wandered off, and left her with another guy (who was sober). Then just recently she was with those same friends, and yes, unfortunately stone drunk, and ended up involuntarily cheating. I know alcohol is not a good excuse, and she actually isn't trying to use it as one. In fact, she keeps beating herself up about it, and says I deserve someone better. But, we are engaed, and I love her with every ounce of my heart, and break up is not an option for me.

I tell her that when she says she she break up with me because of something she did, I say it sounds like she's giving up on our relationship, and not willing to try and work through it. I talked her into emptying out the pantry of liquor, because we both know she can thin a lot better when she is sober. I know she wouldn't cheat on me if she were sober, so we both agreed on getting rid of the alcohol. What can I do to help her through this? She been beating herself up about it for the past two days. I tried telling her to quit beating herself up about it, and I forgave her, (all three times), but she keeps saying "well, im a horrible person, how could i do that to someone i love? you deserve much better than me." and so on and so forth.

I am trying to work through this with her, but the biggest problem is how much she keeps kicking herself, and belittleing herself. I told her numerous times I have forgiven her, and I am NOT going to leave her. I mean we had like a three hour long conversation, like adults, no yelling, and she still has begun to hate herself. Any ideas?:(

I read the first sentence... that is all that is needed. She would have had her a$$ kicked out of bed the first time she was "stone" drunk. You don't want to leave her, then you will reap what you sow!

Her pattern is just inexcusable, period. Making excuses for someone once is understandable, but three times is flat out ignorant. You, my friend, are a better person than I.

I would suggest she seek therapy if she is having self esteem issues right now, as I don't think there is much you can do. Sounds like this relationship was built on a pretty pi$$ poor foundation to begin with. And she is right, you do deserve someone better than her. She can wallow in self pity as far as I am concerned, or she can seek help for herself.

You're a good man for sure. Alcohol is no excuse. If she loved you at all the first time a pass was made at her drunk or not she would know better to walk away. Does being drunk make her forget she isn't single? I don't think so. If your crazy enough to try this again with her then I would suggest some kind of AA or support group for her drinking. She wants to blame the alcohol, then make her stop. So sober she has no excuses for the next time she cheats.

As someone who has cheated, she isn't going to forgive herself, she is going to feel guilty everytime she is with you and your relationship is compromised. It doesn't matter how hard you fight to keep her.

As someone who has been cheated on, breaking up is your only option. One year and some months is not a lifelong commitment and she has violated your trust 3 times. You do deserve better and we can not tell you how to fix glass this broken.

Only suggestion is counseling. More importantly could be the counseling for you, as you clearly lack self-esteem.

The one just recently her other friend told me there were not going to be any guys there, at their house, she wanted to spend time with her friends. I had to work the next morning, and it was already like 2 am, and I guess they went to someone else's house and their son was their, and he got stone drunk as well.

And by the way, I never said she was using the alcohol as an excuse.

You are the one using the alcohol as the excuse...

Leaving the toilet seat up - mistake
Not doing the dishes - mistake
boinking a stranger - relationship F%^& up!

Here's a dose of reality. You are a doormat for this girl, she uses alcohol as a way of cheating on you. I've been around girls completely wasted that have had better morals. I've been completely wasted and didn't do anything I didn't want to do. She cheated on you, not once but THREE times! You would think the first time she drank and boinked a dude, she would have learned. Dope! I can't handle my liquor. If you decide to take her back, then get used to this rinse and repeat life, because it's going to be one hell of a ride.

I can already see you later posting on her "my wife is pregnant but I don't know if the baby is mine"

Grow a set, you are being abused and walked all over!

Doesn't matter what you are saying, you are looking to excuse the behavior, an excuse your own behavior for staying and both are really not acceptable. We don't condone dysfunction here and we all see it. Your relationship is doomed, you are insecure/afraid to be alone so you stay, you are using love as an excuse for being a doormat. ::shrug:: I don't think you will find the answers you seek here, maybe a few shakes of a Magic 8 ball will give you better results. Of course, it is spring, there must be daisies somewhere... 'she loves me, she loves me not... '

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Originally Posted by kctiger

You are the one using the alcohol as the excuse...

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Thank you kc... no matter who uses it as an excuse its still a piss poor excuse.

I would be concerned about whether your girlfriend has a serious problem with alcohol. Removing it from your home won't necessarily address that issue. Also, when you forgive behavior that shouldn't be excused, you become an enabler and are actually reinforcing the very behavior that you want to end. She is controlling you by forcing you to "prove" your love for her by forgiving her for cheating. She is controlling you by gaining your sympathy by feeling so "guilty" that now you are all caught up in how to fix THAT issue in addition to having to worry about whether she will get drunk again and disregard your feelings. How do YOU fit into this picture? Who here is concerned about YOUR well-being? YOU certainly don't appear to be. Why would you want to be with a woman who can't control her consumption of alcohol to the point you had to remove it from your house to protect yourself from her abuse of it and who is able to focus everything in this situation on herself rather than on the issue at hand. You need to seriously examine why you would want to remain in this situation. You are not a good guy if you are enabling sick behavior on the part of a partner.

I just read the first sentence and immediately started writing a response. To begin with, your relationship is FUBAR'd.

Secondly, you are right, her low self-esteem is the biggest issue in the relationship, and it's why she's a cheater. She hates herself and unfortunately, you can't fix her, no one can.

Right again, alcohol is no excuse. Someone who lets himself get to the point of no-control just has poor character. You drink the booze, it doesn't drink you. Being as this happened three times, she probably has reputation among her friends of her social-circle that I know you would hate.

Lastly, she will get fed up with herself and end the relationship if you don't make the first move. From what you say it's clear that she respects you (it's relative), enough to let you go instead of cheating on you behind your back (I assume she told you she cheated up-front?). The least you can do at this point is be the one to cut her loose so you can protect your ego.

And, just for sh*ts and giggles, if you somehow do work through this, would you really want to be in a relationship where you have to wonder where she is every single night? That's the kind of stress that would shorten your life by years.

Your enabling bad behavior when you both need help.

Contact ALANON for some facts.

alanon - Ask.com Search

Not only are you blaming the alcohol but your placing blame on her friends as well by writing, " she was with her friends, again stone drunk, but her other "friends" (who are females) wandered off, and left her with another guy (who was sober)."

You can't babysit her! You removed the alcohol from your house but what is going happen the next time she decides to hang out with her friends? Or the next time she has a wandering eye while she is drunk?

This whole thing is going change your life around if you stay. I guess you're a bigger person than me because I would have been out the door the first time.

No offense but she sounds like she wants you feel sorry for her mistake. If she feels bad enough about it and you love her so much, you can't stand seeing her hating herself and she knows this! If she really does love you she woud have been at home with you instead getting drunk with other people friends or not. If she knows she won't cheat if she's sober then she should have no problem throwing out the alcohol. If she is an alcoholic it will be tough to get through but she'll make it. You need to be strong for her if you want to make it work. If she is having a bad day take her out to eat or to the beach or to the park even and just spend time alone. Find something she really loves to do and make a habit out of it instead of going out with her friends and getting drunk. I dated a guy for 5 years that always cheated on me. It was hard to let go but I did and my life was so much easier not worrying about what or who he is doing!! Now I am with the greatest guy in the world and we have a 4 year old daughter. Just ask yourself... "where will we be in 5 years? And by the way if she knows she cheats on you while she drunk why does she like to drink so much? Why would she go get drunk when she knows she can't control herself? Best bet get out and enjoy life. You should not suffer because she wants to be drunk with her friends. And some friends she has, get her drunk and ditch her?? Are you sure you know everything??

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Then just recently she was with those same friends, and yes, unfortunately stone drunk, and ended up involuntarily cheating

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Involuntarily cheating? Really? The only time I had sex involuntarily was when I was raped, every other time was mutual consent and voluntary.

Was she passed out? Did the guy take advantage of her? Did she consent?

You are coming up with every excuse you can think of to accept this behavior.

3rd times a charm, for me it's 1 shot only. So, how many more times does she have to cheat for you to say it's enough?

This won't stop, she's getting away with it, crying her crocodile tears and maintaining you while sleeping around with random guys. She's got you by the balls, and you're allowing it.

People treat you the way you let them treat you. You tell me, do you deserve this? If so, why?

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

I can never be with a cheater.

You have forgiven her, but that's half the battle.

At first I thought I could forgive my ex for cheating on me, she broke up with me and I am not blinded by emotions anymore and when I look back now, I can never forgive her for doing that. A little self respect can go pretty far.

I think she is trying to show you, she doesn't want to be with you. She keeps saying you deserve better and beat herself up about it to make you realize you deserve better so you could leave her. - Just my observation, I could be wrong.

Cheating, drunk or not is still cheating and is intentional regardless.

If she can never forgive you or stop beating herself up than I honestly don't think this relationship would work.

Only she can do that and only time will tell.

Best wishes.

Ok, I'm actually going to disagree with the consensus here. I don't believe your girlfriend has cheated at all. I believe she has been raped. Being drunk is not an excuse for a guy to have sex with a girl. Alcohol removes inhibitions. Any guy that has sex with someone "stone drunk" is committing rape. She should be prosecuting these rapists.

In my opinion her problem is not cheating, but alcoholism. Anyone who can let themselves get that drunk that they will have sex with a stranger (or even a relative stranger) has a very serious problem with alcohol.

If you really love her then I would over look the alleged cheating and I would go to Alanon and help her deal with her alcoholism. You fell in love with the sober girl, not the drunk. If you can get her to be the sober girl all the time, then you will have your love back. If not, if she won't deal with her alcoholism, then you will need to decide whether to continue the relationship. But I would look on her having sex those times as a symptom, not the real problem.

I would also have grave concerns about her so-called friends. Friends don't let a friend become stone drunk and then leave them alone with a guy. You may have to offer an ultimatum, her friends or you. You need to show her that these girls are not her friends if they let her get into those situations.

I have to disagree completely with you Scott. Prosecute these guys? Where is the responsibility in her? There is a difference between being so drunk you pass out, and then a guy forces himself on you... I doubt that is the issue, as I would find it hard that she just so happened to run into three different guys that would take advantage of such a situation.

Having sex with someone "stone drunk" doesn't mean rape... that is almost offensive to say. Two totally different actions. If both parties are intoxicated and both consent to sex, then I am guessing you call that rape? She does not have a leg to stand on if she wants to prosecute these "rapists." Good luck with that.

If she can't handle alcohol that is one thing, but to imply that she has been "rapped" three different times is absurd. If this would have happened one time, as in a one time, "oops, I suck at handling alcohol" deal, then I would say fine... three times is just flat out inexcusable. I have NEVER seen any girl get so wasted that she just so happens to "get raped" three times.

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Originally Posted by kctiger

I have to disagree completely with you Scott. Prosecute these guys? Where is the responsibility in her? There is a difference between being so drunk you pass out, and then a guy forces himself on you...I doubt that is the issue, as I would find it hard that she just so happened to run into three different guys that would take advantage of such a situation.

Having sex with someone "stone drunk" doesn't mean rape...that is almost offensive to say. Two totally different actions. If both parties are intoxicated and both consent to sex, then I am guessing you call that rape? She does not have a leg to stand on if she wants to prosecute these "rapists." Good luck with that.

If she can't handle alcohol that is one thing, but to imply that she has been "rapped" three different times is absurd.

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I agree with you KC. She drank to the point her judgement was off.

I can see both sides of KC and Scott's arguments. While I agree with KC, Scott raises a good problem that is now growing in our country. I believe there is a law in the works that would put a limit on sexual advances while drinking is involved, foolish yes, necessary now a days, yes.

I believe there is more missing from this story, surely the blame does fall on her because you should know your drinking limits and she passed them 3 different times(that she has told him about)

The issue with this is that it is overdrawn with ambiguity. Creating such a law puts guys in awkward places, as no judge or jury would convict a girl of "raping" a guy that is too drunk. Thus, if a girl gets up after being wasted and having a one night stand, and doesn't like the fact it happened, what would be stopping her from yelling "rape" to some law enforcement agency or lawyer?

People have a personal responsibility to conduct themselves in a way that uphold their morals. If they cannot function while intoxicated, then don't drink, that simple.

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Originally Posted by Romefalls19

surely the blame does fall on her because you should know your drinking limits and she passed them 3 different times(that she has told him about)

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Yes and no. Alcoholism is a disease. Once an alcoholic starts drinking they usually can't control when they stop. Alcoholism can only be fully controlled by not drinking at all.

I do, however, doubt that these three incidents were the only times she has been "stone drunk". Its just that she was raped during those three times. It also makes me wonder whether the OP is enabling her alcoholism.

I agree, I believe there is a lot missing to this story. I would also wonder about the character of her friends.

Let's say she is an alcoholic.

I agree there are warning signs of alcoholism all over the place in his post.

I don't agree that we should encourage him to stay in this relationship, that has been greatly compromised by her actions/symptoms even if they are alcohol induced. She hasn't brought up her own inability to control her drinking, which indicate true remorse and step one - admitting there is a problem.

I think the best advice to the OP is that this relationship is young, she has issues to deal with whether it's alcohol or low self-esteem, she will continue to have issues intensified by her actions in the last year. Take your warning signs and do what is healthy for you, pack your bags and hit the road.

Ya know, her claim to be drunk could be a lie. Having sex while drunk is an easily believable excuse. It'd sound much worse to him if she told him she's been sleeping around "stone sober".

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Originally Posted by kctiger

People have a personal responsibility to conduct themselves in a way that uphold their morals. If they cannot function while intoxicated, then don't drink, that simple.

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Well said.

Your not going to listen to anyone on these boards anyway. Hate to say it, but you're the type of person whose going to keep giving in- keep making excuses- keep thinking the rest of the world is fools.

Then 8 years from now when she's cheated on you 25 more times, has two children that aren't yours, and finally SHE grows the balls to leave you like she wants to now, THEN finally you'll look back and realize all those people on some foolish website were actually giving you good advice.

I'm hesitant to say anything because I can tell you won't listen. You already made your decision and your hoping people on this forum will back you up and support you.

I really hope you prove me wrong though. Your making a HUGE mistake. If she cheats on you 3 times in a year and a half I GUARANTEE you she will cheat on you after you've been married. She does NOT respect you and she IS walking all over you. You still will write this post and all others off as foolish.

Good luck buddy... good luck.

I would also like to point out that this board and society in general is quick to call people who have trouble behaving while intoxicated an alcoholic... most alcoholics cannot function without alcohol, while she exhibits behavior that is in direct conflict with that.

I caution people about allowing the ignorant behavior of a drunk to throw them in as having a disease.

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Originally Posted by kctiger

I have to disagree completely with you Scott. Prosecute these guys? Where is the responsibility in her? There is a difference between being so drunk you pass out, and then a guy forces himself on you...I doubt that is the issue, as I would find it hard that she just so happened to run into three different guys that would take advantage of such a situation.

Having sex with someone "stone drunk" doesn't mean rape...that is almost offensive to say. Two totally different actions. If both parties are intoxicated and both consent to sex, then I am guessing you call that rape? She does not have a leg to stand on if she wants to prosecute these "rapists." Good luck with that.

If she can't handle alcohol that is one thing, but to imply that she has been "rapped" three different times is absurd. If this would have happened one time, as in a one time, "oops, I suck at handling alcohol" deal, then I would say fine...three times is just flat out inexcusable. I have NEVER seen any girl get so wasted that she just so happens to "get raped" three times.

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I will say there is a lot of sympathy for your argument. I just did some research and juries are overwhelming unlikley to convict if the woman was drunk. But there seems to be some movement in the other direction. There have been laws proposed in the UK that will make it a crime to have sex with a woman too drunk to refuse. A recent case in NY also points out the willingess to prosecute:

NYPD officer accused of raping East Village woman while drunk

Maybe my suggesting that she prosecute was a bit over the top. But I stand by my statement that she was not cheating, but was, in fact, raped.

You ask where her responsibility was. Let me take a different tack. If a woman dresses provactively, is she asking to raped? The fact is that once someone gets drunk, they will lose the capacity to fully control their actions. So does the conscious decision to drink mean they give consent to sex? Not In my opinion!

You refer to consent, but you miss the point. Being drunk removes one's capacity to give consent! And I'm referring to being "stone drunk" which I'm interpreting as just short of passing out. What I would call "falling down drunk".

And no, the accusation of rape is far from absurd. Rape is sex without consent. There is more than sufficient evidence to show that drinking too much removes inhibitions and reduces the person's ability to make decisions. Therefore, someone can certainly be too drunk to legally consent.

But we are here to help the OP with his decision about his relationship. On that basis, I again, stand by my response. Whether you believe that a criminal act was committed or not, I maintain that the girlfriend was not consciously "cheating". That she, in fact, had sex without conscious consent. On that basis, I don't think her actions were cheating. And I very strongly feel the problem has nothing to do with having sex and everything to do with alcoholism. That's the problem the OP has to deal with.

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Originally Posted by kctiger

I would also like to point out that this board and society in general is quick to call people who have trouble behaving while intoxicated an alcoholic...most alcoholics cannot function without alcohol, while she exhibits behavior that is in direct conflict with that.

I caution people about allowing the ignorant behavior of a drunk to throw them in as having a disease.

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My mother is an alcoholic and that isn't necessarily true.

There are plenty of functioning alcoholics and my mom was one for years before full blown alcoholism. Alcoholics do not understand their own personal limits and with the way that she consumes alcohol, there are severe signs that she has a problem with alcohol.

This is the last post I put on this thread, because the excuses are just rampant!

1. Wearing a skimpy outfit and drinking too much are not anywhere near the same thing. I get what you are saying, and as a former police officer it pisses me off that you put seem to be putting me in the category of "blame the victim" not the suspect...

2. Problems with handling alcohol go on the person... most people have problems with alcohol if they LET IT get the best of them. Calling someone an alcoholic because they have a low tolerance and don't know how to handle that is like calling a person a retard because they lack a lot of intellegence or are extremely slow in picking things up. I am sick of this society being so quick to say, "Aww..you poor thing, you must have a disease..that is why you act the way you do!" Get off your a$$, realize your actions and fix them.

3. The problem with the OP's girlfriend, or whatever the hell she is stems from her lack of self control, period. Maybe she is an alcoholic, I don't know... don't have enough information.

As far as giving consent when drunk, I would think that every time I had drunk sex with my girlfriend, it would be classified as rape in your eyes.

I think there is a lot more to the story than meets the eye here. I would love to talk to the OP's girl so we could get a clear picture, as ANYTIME a person sleeps with 3 different strangers, regardless of intoxication level, there are bigger problems that need to be laid on the table. I am not trying to pick a fight, and I respect others' opinions. All in all, I just think all of us have been quick to pull the triger on something we don't have a lot of info about.

I don't believe the friends should be at blame either. I guarantee the friends were drinking to and it isn't their job to babysit her. I can't believe that her friends would just leave her with some random guy-something is missing.

I have a friend that drinks and I hate to go out from her because her drunk behavior inteefers with my time. A number of times I stopped he from going off with some random guy but she gives me grief for it. The last time her and I went out we almost had a fight because I tried to stop from getting into some guy car while she was drunk. I stopped going out with her after that incident because I can't control her especially while she is drunk.

So blaming the friends is wrong especially when you don't know what exactly down.

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Originally Posted by kctiger

This is the last post I put on this thread, because the excuses are just rampant!

1. Wearing a skimpy outfit and drinking too much are not anywhere near the same thing. I get what you are saying, and as a former police officer it pisses me off that you put seem to be putting me in the category of "blame the victim" not the suspect...

2. Problems with handling alcohol go on the person...most people have problems with alcohol if they LET IT get the best of them. Calling someone an alcoholic because they have a low tolerance and don't know how to handle that is like calling a person a retard because they lack a lot of intellegence or are extremely slow in picking things up. I am sick of this society being so quick to say, "Aww..you poor thing, you must have a disease..that is why you act the way you do!" Get off your a$$, realize your actions and fix them.

3. The problem with the OP's girlfriend, or whatever the hell she is stems from her lack of self control, period. Maybe she is an alcoholic, I don't know...don't have enough information.

As far as giving consent when drunk, I would think that everytime I had drunk sex with my girlfriend, it would be classified as rape in your eyes.

I think there is a lot more to the story than meets the eye here. I would love to talk to the OP's girl so we could get a clear picture, as ANYTIME a person sleeps with 3 different strangers, regardless of intoxication level, there are bigger problems that need to be laid on the table. I am not trying to pick a fight, and I respect others' opinions. All in all, I just think all of us have been quick to pull the triger on something we don't have a lot of info about.

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1. But that is exactly what you ARE doing.

2. Someone who gets "stone drunk" 3 times in a little over a year (and we don't know how many more times, we just know about the times when she had sex with someone other guy) is a strong sign of being an alcoholic.

3. Yes a lack of self control is a major part of her problem. But I will say it again, the promiscuity is a symptom of the alcoholism. Deal with the alcoholism and I believe the promiscuity will go away.

Just because someone gets "stone drunk" does NOT give them the excuse to cheat. Why would you settle for that excuse?

If she got stone drunk and shot someone, the law wouldn't care.

Neither should you.

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Originally Posted by liz28

I don't believe the friends should be at blame either. I gurantee the friends were drinking to and it isn't their job to babysit her. I can't believe that her friends would just leave her with some random guy-something is missing.

So blaming the friends is wrong especially when you don't know what exactly down.

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Whether something is missing or not, we have only the OP's story to go by. So we have to deal with as he tells it. And yes, girlfriends who let a friend get that drunk are enablers. And girlfriends that let a friend get that drunk and then leave her alone are not true friends.

I'm not blaming the girlfriends for her having sex, but I can and do blame them for enabling the situation.

I see all sides here.

I've been reluctant to join in the discussion, but I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents, minus tax.

Alcoholism is a possibility, but I have to agree with KC, we don't have enough info to make that diagnosis.

Is it rape if a woman is intoxicated and a guy takes advantage of that? I have two opinions on this. If she's drunk to the point where she's passed out, cannot give consent, then yes, I believe it's rape. If she's just too drunk to stop herself, but consents, then no, I don't think that qualifies as rape.

Alcohol makes you do stupid things, it lowers you inhibitions, makes you do things you wouldn't normally do but probably really want to.

If this had happened once, I'd say, okay, bad choice, you probably shouldn't drink, you shouldn't put yourself in a situation like this again and I'd tell the OP to go with his heart, work through the relationship if that's what he wanted, which he does.

But, this has happened 3 times now, that he knows of. Alcoholic or not, she's not in a place where she can commit to a relationship, that much is very clear.

Either way, she needs help, maybe with alcoholism, or sex addiction, or just plain lack of morals.

If it were me I'd pack my bags and leave. She needs to deal with this baggage, whatever it is, but how many times is the OP supposed to forgive and forget? How many more times in the future will he be put in the position? I'd bet this won't be the last "I got drunk and slept with a random guy" episode she has.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

2. Someone who gets "stone drunk" 3 times in a little over a year (and we don't know how many more times, we just know about the times when she had sex with someone other guy) is a strong sign of being an alcoholic.

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.. I'm really curious as to where do you get your information. Drinking to get drunk three times in over a year isn't excessive at all. I bet the Penguins organization has been stone drunk since Friday night.

When I think of intoxicated rape I think of the last scene in Kids, where Casper has sex with that girl who took way too much mescaline. She couldn't even speak, that is rape and anyone with a conscience wouldn't do that.

Anyway, I stand by what I said, __Me__, leave her before she leaves you.

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Originally Posted by kctiger

I think there is a lot more to the story than meets the eye here. I would love to talk to the OP's girl so we could get a clear picture, as ANYTIME a person sleeps with 3 different strangers, regardless of intoxication level, there are bigger problems that need to be laid on the table. I am not trying to pick a fight, and I respect others' opinions. All in all, I just think all of us have been quick to pull the trigger on something we don't have a lot of info about.

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Alcoholism whether you believe it's a disease or not, is a symptom of a greater problem that needs to be addressed. Your right, there is a lot more to this story. Sadly they can't get help for themselves until they really want it. The OP rewards this by forgiving, because he doesn't know better, and needs some education as to his role of being with a drunk. He needs to leave, and let her fall flat on her face in the gutter, and pay the consequences of their actions. Just my honest opinion.

All you can do with a drunk, is protect yourself from their behavior.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

All you can do with a drunk, is protect yourself from their behavior.

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I think this is key for the OP. It really doesn't matter what the reason, whether it's a symptom. This girl has issues to deal with.

This relationship is young.

The OP is young.

She needs counseling of some sort.

It's his choice, to allow/tolerate the behavior, but it is not in his best interest. He clearly isn't interested in what's right or wrong, he will continue this until her problems destroy him as well.

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Originally Posted by slapshot_oi

...? I'm really curious as to where do you get your information. Drinking to get drunk three times in over a year isn't excessive at all.

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I will admit that I have no specifc reference to cite here. But "drinking to get drunk" is clearly a sign of alcoholism. One drinks because they like the taste and maybe the buzz. Most people drink as part of a social occasion. But I don't think anyone drinks for the specific purpose of getting drunk, unless they are an alcoholic.

As for the Penguins, I doubt if you would win your bet. Maybe a few of them did get stone drunk on Friday, but I doubt lasted past the next day.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

I will admit that I have no specifc reference to cite here. But "drinking to get drunk" is clearly a sign of alcoholism. One drinks because they like the taste and maybe the buzz. Most people drink as part of a social occassion. But I don't think anyone drinks for the specific purpose of getting drunk, unless they are an alcoholic.

As for the Penguins, I doubt if you would win your bet. Maybe a few of them did get stone drunk on Friday, but I doubt lasted past the next day.

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Is this my own personal intervention? Are you trying to convince me that I have a drinking problem. I have never drank for the taste, I only drink until the room is spinning and I am feeling 'oh so good.' :eek: