Hi all,

I'll try to keep it as brief as possible!

I'm a male 31 years old, been together for 7 years, got engaged 2 years ago.. I love her, I'd die for her, and her feelings are mutual.. To keep it short, we had been having those silly arguments, have broken up too many times, but would always make up in less than 5-6 hours [lol :)].. However, this time was different, for the first time she was the one to suggest breaking up (asked for some space, "i don't have the same feelings", blah blah blah), I begged for 1-2 days, then went directly to no contact.

HOWEVER, thing is: we agreed I would send her stuff back, and she would the same as well.. A week passes, I didn't send her stuff, but neither had I received anything from her.. So, she sent SMS asking where's her stuff, I replied "sorry i was too busy, i will send your stuff shortly, do you have any idea where's my stuff 'cause i haven't received anything?", she answered "sorry, haven't either sent your stuff, i lost your mail address"..

Which of course is a lie, she knows my address by heart :-) Even if she had forgotten her address, she would have asked for it from the very first day we broke up.. Anyway, we exchanged 5-6 emails discussing just about our stuff, we were both very polite (I wanted to keep lines of communication open)..

I know that she has doubts, and she doesn't really want to break up.. But, she's too proud to make the first move.. I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

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Originally Posted by tree56

I love her, I'd die for her, and her feelings are mutual..

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They must not be since she asked for a break.

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Originally Posted by tree56

However, this time was different, for the first time she was the one to suggest breaking up (asked for some space, "i don't have the same feelings", blah blah blah), I begged for 1-2 days,

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She dumped you, you begged her back. Keep this in mind in minute.

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Originally Posted by tree56

I know that she has doubts, and she doesn't really want to break up..

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You don't know that.

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Originally Posted by tree56

But, she's too proud to make the first move..

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I don't think it's pride. I think it's control. Remember, she dumped you, you begged her. She's in complete control, and by doing this she's got you waiting on her.

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Originally Posted by tree56

I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

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I'm a little confused, is this a long distance relationship? If not, I'd recommend getting that stuff back in person so you can account for all of it. As hard as this might be to believe sometimes women lie and try to keep your stuff at the end of a break up.

Having said that, I think you would actually gain some self respect... or at least hers if you sent her stuff back. In that, I'd include a list of what is yours and what you expect back. She's holding all the cards right now. She dumped you. She refused your begging. She's in control. She thinks (and is correct but she doesn't have to know this) that you are desperate to get her back. She thinks that you are not going to return her stuff because you need her and are waiting on her. In fact, if you sent her back her stuff it will demonstrate to her that in fact you are not as bothered by her decision as she thinks you are, and are no longer waiting on her decisions to guide your life. In many ways this is the last way you have to demonstrate to her you are the one in control of your life and not her. Prove her wrong and take her up on her offer to send her stuff back.

It's a tricky situation, I really do not like chuff's advice, it seems like a lot of mind games and I hate mind games. If you truly want her back, you need to figure out what keeps causing these "little fights" and why this time the breakup has been longer then a few hours. Once you get down to what the cause is, figure out if you can change this. If you can call her up and tell her:
" I don't want to lose you, that is why I haven't sent your stuff back. I know we have been having a lot of fights lately and I think it's because of X. I think if we can work on this issue together, everything can be better"

If you will die for this girl, then let your pride die

My goodness 7 years is a long time to be dating and engaged for 2 years. You are both in your 30's what's the problem?
You two need to pee or get off the "dating/engagement" pot.

If you want her tell her so (you two are too old for mind games you're old enough and been together long enough to be able to communicate with each other) After all this time if you two still aren't ready for marriage you two need to just call it quits.
Maybe that is what her problem is.

Yes, I admit that she must got really surprised to see me begging. She could never imagine that I would ever do such a thing, so maybe she got advantage of it huh?

Nicolerock, you said "if you die for this girl, let your pride die as well".. Well, couldn't somebody just say the same thing for her? Remember, our break up was not a mutual decision.. She was the dumper, not me.. I already let my pride die over the first 1-2 days of our break up, I don't think I can do it again!

However, her emails are very polite & caring, she goes like "take care of yourself", etc.. Sometimes she gave the impression that she's waiting for me to make the first move..

Mind games, huh? I really hate those childish mind games, I can't follow her, I'm too old for this kind of crap..

What I'm trying to figure out is what's the meaning she hasn't sent my stuff back yet..!

YOU let your pride die, I don't care about her pride. I am not talking to her I am talking to YOU!

Do you really think that if I let my pride die, in the long run it will benefit me and/or my relationship? Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

Isn't this true? Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

Sound to me like you guys are playing games back and forth with each other.

First of all, you need to stop the mind games, give her stuff back and stay away from this situation. If you come back to her, she will look at you as a weak and pathetic man. Even if she takes you back, she took you back out of pity. This will not hold a healthy relationship, she will leave you again.

Give her stuff back and end it already. She dumped you and you need to accept that. The mind games are just going to hurt you and stall you on what you really need to worry about... yourself. Move on buddy, don't do this to yourself.

Give her her stuff back and be done with it!
I don't think she wants you, she just has not given you your stuff back. You've been together for so long it may be hard for her to let go completely, but I think she is tired of being in a relationship that is going no where. I don't think she is going to ask you to come back and she shouldn't. 7 years is a long time and she is not getting any younger.
She may have found another.

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Originally Posted by tree56

Do you really think that if I let my pride die, in the long run it will benefit me and/or my relationship? Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

Isn't this true? Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

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Maybe she'll think after all of this time you are ready to commit. I don't think it would last though, which is why she probably left. 7 years is a long time to invest in an adult. She is not getting any younger.

Still I can't figure out why she's keeping my stuff though... Any reasonable explanation?

What kind of stuff is it. Are they things you need? Let her have them and move on.

Then f-ing ask her! We don't know! We aren't mind readers! Maybe the reason she left is you can't communicate!

There is no way you are 31 years old. Because this is what people do in high school she has my stuff I want it back, she isn't getting her stuff until I get my stuff. WHAAA WHAAA WHAAA! Be a man send the lady her things back and be done with it. I am 31 years old also If I acted like this I would punch myself in the face. Grow up!

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Originally Posted by tree56

I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

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Well, you say you aren't into mind games, but this is a power struggle. You are in the middle of a mind game and you are both playing chicken. Or not.

It might be done.

The real question you need to be asking is why get back together if you can so casually break up?

How do you fix whatever is broken in five hours... only to repeat it again somewhere down the line. Then again. Repeat.

Until it isn't the same.

You've been together a long time. You've been engaged a long time. You've been breaking up for a long time.

I really don't get your obsession with who sends what first. It sounds like high school noise. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it does.

So... you can live in reality or pretend reality. Reality probably means you both need to step back and decide if you've hit a wall. Just because you know each other, even love each other, doesn't mean you are right together.

Some loves aren't meant for all time. Some are meant for a time. Cannot tell you where yours is... but I can tell you that you aren't going to get any answers getting back together in sixth period after breaking up in homeroom.

And you said you'd send her the stuff that's hers. You can live by your word or you can play mind games. Right now you are playing mind games, whether you like them or not.

You said "x" and you are doing "y"... and I don't care what she is doing. Her actions don't define who you are.

So... stop trying to see three moves ahead. Either apologize, if you are sorry, and look for the real reasons behind all of this back and forth... or don't apologize, and accept the reality of where you are and do what you said you would.

I was in a seven year relationship that had a couple of breaks along the way. We were younger when we started dating, but still... it was long term and there were breakups. And the last breakup wasn't all that much different than a few of the others... I just was done with the noise. Finished. Time to stop wasting time.

She knew me better than anyone else, but she didn't expect id walk. And I did.

So don't assume you "know" where she is. You might be back together. You might not.

If you make "the first move" (which is really incorrect... this is the 2035th move in this relationship... lots o backstory) and she suddenly wants you back... uhm... why do it?

You guys have bigger issues to solve than who has whose crap. Give the crap back and move on to finding out whether you two are really going to address what is wrong in this relationship.

Sorry for the tough love. We talk to people like they are our friends, brothers, sisters here... so the soft gloves are left in the drawer.

I suspect she was looking for a reason to break up, and got one. Seems like the communications were weak anyway, considering the 7 years you both have invested. Guess she wasn't all that thrilled with the two years you lived together.

If its only been a week since the break up, send her stuff back, and disappear from her life. You can get more "stuff" without her.

That will stop the games, and drama, and wondering, as to her motives, feelings, or anything else.

It will also let the emotional dust settle, so you can make decisions based on facts, and not feelings.

Fact- she left, and wants her stuff.

Feelings- Shock over the break up, emotional abandonment, confusion. Loss of self respect because you begged, and she said no. (rejection).

The feelings will heal, if you deal with the fact.

Both of you are dragging out giving each other back their things because neither on of you want to let go instead you want to hold on to each other stuff. Why? Because nobody want to let go.

I don't understand how two adults can act like kids but I have heard worst.

Stop this yo-yo relationship once and for all. Move on! Things could be worst.

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Originally Posted by tree56

Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

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So... you really want more of the same?

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Originally Posted by tree56

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

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She has that option right now. At any moment. She can dump you whenever. The crawling back part is up to you...

But how the hell is giving back her stuff crawling back to her??

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Originally Posted by tree56

Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

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Hmmm... so you do the thing you said you would do, give her back her crap that she asked for... and you get to know the real "personality" of the woman? Sounds like fact finding to me.

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Originally Posted by tree56

Still I can't figure out why she's keeping my stuff though... Any reasonable explanation?

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You both are using stuff as a "hostage" for mental ransom, leverage.

She could write in here and say the same stuff about you. And we'd tell her to give you back your dumb stuff and move on, whatever moving on means.

You are holding onto this tiny little thread that says "maybe she still has my stuff because she doesnt want me to leave and so maybe if i dont send her her stuff, then she wont leave even tho' we arent talking or seeing each other"... or is it "maybe if i dont give in then im a real man and she will respect me for not communicating or doing as she asked because i saw through her charade and then shell be forced to make the first move which would show that shes weak... oh wait... IM weak if i make the first move, but shed be loving if she did... i think"...

Keep the crap. Ship the crap. This is not the issue.

I was in a 8 year relationship with a girl who also was into control. We did this kind of stuff so many times. Broke up so many times. She'd call me and say stuff like "I want the outdoor fireplace I just bought you back! you can't have it if your going to be using it to entertain other girls, blah blah" and vice versa, I'd ask for items or things back, etc.. Its all just a giant mind game mixed with you analyzing every flippin move you and her make.

The thing I never understood which 4 different people have pointed out to you is, this is a failed relationship that isn't going to work. Why do you want her to take you back if this is going to repeat over and over. Every time my GF and I broke up I would be unhappy for a month or two then after I've moved on or felt better she'd come back and we'd resolve some issues (or we would "think" we resolved) and then 1 month later, 1 week, 1 day, whatever, we were back to the same crap.

You need to come to reality with this thought.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE THE 7 YEARS WORTH SOMETHING. People think that the 7 years is wasted if you don't end up with that person you spent the 7 years with. Man, all these years are GONE unless we get married. Then they are a investment...

Stop thinking like that. The 7 years are 7 years. That's it. It just took you 7 years to figure out that you aren't the right match. Next relationship you are in, hopefully it will take LESS time to figure out.. maybe you will meet the right girl and within 2 years you will say, THIS IS THE ONE, and marry her... but once you wait 7 years and you date from 23 to 31 you were already married at that point. But without the legal paperwork, and obviously without the commitment and vows between you for better or for worse.

Ok, I should give some update info, 'cause this is driving me crazy.

10 days ago I sent her an email where I apologized for every mistake I did in a very mature way, I admitted that we both made mistakes, and took responsibility for my mistakes. I just asked her if she could also understand the mistakes she did, so that we could make a new start, and think things through again. I also mentioned that if she wouldn't want to, I wouldn't force her, wouldn't violate her space.

Guess what she replied... I'll briefly describe her response: "You know what? When I read your email, I could have given our relationship a second chance, but you said 1-2 things that really irritated me & you ruined your chances..."

Immature, or what? Anyway, I got really angry with her response, and then replied politely "Please, lets stop any communication between us, anytime soon you'll receive your stuff, please send my stuff as soon as possible", and she promised she would.. Actually, she seemed very angry that I asked her to stop any communication between us, seemed like she was hoping I would continue begging..

Anyway, thing is that she did receive her stuff (checked online DHL tracking), but for some reason she hasn't sent my stuff up till now.. I should have received them, by mail it would take 1-2 days, 10 days have passed, nothing received.. I'm really angry, I don't want to send her another email asking for my stuff back,?

What can I do? I WANT MY STUFF BACK!! I'm too tired to play her stupid ming/power games.

(extra info: from the day we broke up, she acts in a very immature way: the day we broke up, she opened a Facebook account -which I know she always hated this Facebook crap-, which she intentionally left unlocked, so I would be able to visit her profile and check her NEW pictures from the night she went out to the club with some NEW friends.. Obviously she didn't really want to go to the club, she always hated nightlife. She just did to make me jealous. How immature is she?)

How far away are you from her? If it's close, I'd hit her up with one last email and say I am going to pick up my stuff on this date and this time.

Or make a list of what she has and take her to court over it.

Or write it off as lost and not worth the emotional game your going through. This is the option I'd be picking right now if at all possible.

I don't wish to see her again, that's why I don't go myself to pick my stuff up.

One solution I came up with, is to ask a friend of mine to visit her & ask for my stuff back (I will not warn her about this visit, I prefer to catch her off guard).

Can please somebody explain what's the reason she's keeping my stuff?

Is she so selfish that doesn't care to ship my things back?

Or is it that she can't accept our break up and tries to find new opportunities for us to communicate?

Or maybe is it that she wants to me to even beg for my stuff, just to see me getting humiliated one more time?

My God, I can't understand what games she's playing.

(and what about this Facebook crap she did just to make me jealous? Sometimes I feel like I want to visit her just to SLAP her for playing with me emotions, and then leave).

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Originally Posted by tree56

I don't wish to see her again, that's why I don't go myself to pick my stuff up.

One solution I came up with, is to ask a friend of mine to visit her & ask for my stuff back (I will not warn her about this visit, i prefer to catch her off guard).

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Take that solution. Get this done and over with. Do it tomorrow if possible.

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Originally Posted by tree56

Can please somebody explain what's the reason she's keeping my stuff?

Is she so selfish that doesn't care to ship my things back?

Or is it that she can't accept our break up and tries to find new opportunities for us to communicate?

Or maybe is it that she wants to me to even beg for my stuff, just to see me getting humiliated one more time?

My God, I can't understand what games she's playing.

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It's a combination of things. To F with you head, to make sure you beg, to make sure you keep thinking about her, to test to see if your man enough to go pick them up, to create opportunities to talk should she need a place to drop her issues. It's a host of problems she's got that she's giving you. Which is why, if the stuff has no value you should write it off. If it does, send you friend over and quick playing this game.

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Originally Posted by tree56

(and what about this Facebook crap she did just to make me jealous? sometimes I feel like I wanna visit her just to SLAP her for playing with me emotions, and then leave).

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Won't lie, I've been there. It really bothers me to know end that you offer your emotions to a woman and they take advantage of you for it when you just try to move on. There is a huge problem with respecting the person they've been with even if it did not work out. But why are you looking at Facebook. Delete it. You are attempting to move her out of your life. Facebook is not going to help you.

Your answer was straight to the point. Now I know you can really understand how I feel.

Yes, my question is: Okay lady, we broke up. Okay, we cannot work things out between us. Why the f*#$ do you continue playing games? How wrong was I, to deserve such bad treatment from you?

You know what's the most weird thing? All those 7 years, I was always too damn sure about this lady she wouldn't never treat me like this, don't know where this confidence came from, I was just sure.. She would always make me feel confident, as if she would never dump me.. (of course, I never took advantage of this, I -too- was very caring, and she would always admit what a good person I was, how much I took care of her, and how much she loved me).

Okay, maybe she caught me off guard once, when she decided to break up.. But now, she caught me twice off guard, with her behaviour after our break up.. Never expected it...

Well I hope you get your stuff back. I would email her and tell her you are having someone come and pick it up. Don't play the same games she is playing.

Just so you know, when you apologize to someone, you don't add "but you did wrong too"
You say you're sorry for your actions and be done with it, other wise your apology is seen as disingenuous

Oh trust me. I know exactly where you are emotionally. I think sometimes this is why we see men snap after the relationship is over. Women think their funny playing emotional games because they understand them and men don't so the man can not relate to this. In many ways this is a form of emotional abuse.

I've told myself the same thing about ex's, they are to good or to nice or to mature to do anything to play games even if we broke up. Then the break up happens and the games begin. That is why I keep on stressing if this is stuff you don't need write it off. If it's a HDTV, while I'd get that. But if it's some books, some clothes, or a even a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff, forget it. It's not worth the emotional hell she's going to put you through. I look at it like this, If you stuff is just stuff (not family or sentimental possesions) and is valued at $300.00, you would pay that same amount just to start to heal. It's not worth that much in the grand scheme of things. You can get new clothes. You can replace some DVD's. It's better to replace it then hold on waiting. Look at what waiting has done for you this far. She's got you holding on for no reason other then emotional game play.

If it's that important, send your friend over with a list of what's yours. One reason I suggested court is because once she gets the letter from the court house telling her to show up she'll know the games are over and you aren't F-ing around with her anymore.

Don't quite agree.. I think I acted as a man, accepting whole responsibility of my own mistakes (not just "okay, i'm sorry".. I actually explained why I thought I did wrong, so she could understand that I meant it.. But I couldn't just leave her think that I was the only one who did mistakes, this would amplify her ego and think "too little, too late".. Anyway, this is not the point, different people apologize in different ways..

The point is: is it so common for women to act in such a revengeful way to their ex-BF? Even when their ex didn't do anything wrong? Why? That's what really hurts.. Her way of breaking-up did not respect my personality, nor my feelings.

The reason she is keeping her stuff is really only to her knowledge. However, I can hazard a guess in saying that she is keeping it because that is the last of you and she's holding on to it. Once you have your stuff back, you can completely sever ties with her and be gone from her life. I think she is trying to prevent you from escaping her.

Her new Facebook and her vengeful antics are just methods to try to get you to become jealous and beg for her to come back. I think she enjoys that kind of power over you - which is also why she said in her email that she would have given it a chance if you didn't mess up in the email. This just proves that she is trying to push everything onto you, and thus, gives her a sense of power over you.

What you need to do is get your things back ASAP. If you have to go in person, then go in person. This will not only show that you truly want to sever ties with her but that you're also mature and capable of doing things on your own. Her keeping your things and you allowing it up to this point just proves to her that she is in power. Please take the steps to getting your things back.

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Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

Just so you know, when you apologize to someone, you don't add "but you did wrong too"
You say you're sorry for your actions and be done with it, other wise your apology is seen as disingenuous

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Yeah... "im sorry you are an arsehole" isn't an apology... ;)

Look... nobody plans for the breakup. When it happens, it might be decent and respectful, or it might be napalm in the early AM... my experience is the person you are newly broken up with is nothing like the person you were dating not so long ago.

Hell... I know my head was so far up my arse after a major crash and burn that I couldn't tell night from day... and I was the sane one supposedly.

And don't make this screwed break up a "woman problem"... both genders can be idiotic... while there might be some common themes about male vs female the potential to be an arse is really universal.

Sucks to be you.

Man... I've been you too many times before. Been there. Done that. Sucks rocks.

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Originally Posted by tree56

(extra info: from the day we broke up, she acts in a very immature way: the day we broke up, she opened a Facebook account -which I know she always hated this Facebook crap-, which she intentionally left unlocked, so I would be able to visit her profile and check her NEW pictures from the night she went out to the club with some NEW friends.. Obviously she didn't really want to go to the club, she always hated nightlife. She just did to make me jealous. How immature is she?)

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Well, how immature are you that you're obsessively checking her Facebook like a teenager? Go to the courthouse and find out what you need to do to get an injunction to get your stuff back. Don't email her any longer, just get down to business.

Ok, I've stayed out for awhile.

1. You both are immature and whiny.
2. Maybe she wants to try new things like clubs
3. You're kind of stalking with this Facebook stuff.

Get your stuff back, be a man and go over there with a police officer if need be and get it back. Just get it so you can move on, which part of me thinks you still won't even after she gives it to you. If it were me, I would have given up on getting my stuff and wrote it off as a lesson learned

Maybe she is going out to clubs with new friends because that is who she is. Could be she has discovered who she is.
At any rate, get a friend to pick up your stuff, if that does not work, get a court order and be done with it.

Ok everyone, thank you for your support.

BUT: how easy do you think it is for me to just move on? You say it's immature of me constantly checking her Facebook profile.. Ok, I know it sets me back.. But, it's natural, isn't? You've been through what I'm going now, don't say you never did what I'm doing now.

Do you think it's appropriate for me to give her a court notice? Shouldn't I try to get my stuff back my sending a friend of mine first?

The most important thing I want back is "the ring" I gave her when we got engaged.. It cost me 3K.. And just to give you some extra info: we are NOT American, we come from Western Europe, and according to our culture, when an engaged couple breaks up, the woman SHOULD give the man back the RING.. And this is a MUST.. Don't know if you do the same in the US, but that's what we do here in our country.. It's just common sense, it's a principle we are taught from our early years..

Hell, I want my ring back.

Then let her know you are having a friend pick it up and if she does not comply you will get a court order. She will know how serious you are then.
Stop looking at her page, its juvenile.

In the US, it is custom to give the ring back, if she calls the engagement off. If he does, they usually keep it(read it somewhere). Dude, my ex still has A LOT of jewelry that I bought her, a ring, Tiffany's bracelet's, necklaces, diamond necklace along with tons of other stuff.

As for the facebook/myspace. Yes, I did it, but only until January 1st, then I made it my New Years resolution and never went back on during NC. To this day I rarely visit her page, no desire too.

Glad to hear that in the US is imperative for her to give back the ring! Same culture, same ideas. Straight to the point.

Romefalls, did you ever ask your ex to give you back the jewellery you bought for her?

You know, it's not that I want the ring back, just to give it to another woman if I ever get engaged again. Hell, no. I'll buy another ring for the next woman I'll get engaged to.

It's just that I don't want her to keep it 'cause she doesn't desrve it. She dumped for silly reasons, and now she gives me the impression that she keeps the ring just because of its high value. Doesn't she have any dignity left? She promised she would give it back.

Yep, several times I asked for it. She still wears some of the jewelry to this day

Oh God.. Why didn't you ever go with the 'court'-solution?

If she isn't committing to the marriage that ring is yours. What is your court system like? Here in the US we can take her to small claims court for that ring. Or you can speed things up and send your friend over today.

Facebook stuff, yes I've done. But it sets you back and is not healthy which is why we are telling you not to do it. You are correct, we have been where you... we also know how to get out and away from it which is what we are trying to impress upon you.

If she's not going to cooperate use every legal avenue possible. She's playing games and thinks you don't have it in you to get serious and stand up for yourself so she keeps toying with you. Why don't you win this last one and show her she has no idea who she is dealing with and get serious about it. Go over with a cop and get it (if they do that where you are at) or take her to court. The relationship is over at this point, you've got nothing left to put up with this for anymore.

I just wrote it off as a lesson learned. A hard pill to swallow but it was better than reopening wounds