Ok, so it's probably best for me to fully explain the situation before asking for any advice, empathy or whatnot on the matter so here goes:

Back in June of last year I met this girl at a Church while working (my work means I on occasion go to Churches). At the time I didn't think much of it; she was cute and we just chatted about her looking for work in my field (Social Work). At that same time a position happened to be opening up at my work so I told her to e-mail me her resume and I'd hand it in for her. I really wasn't thinking much about anything at the time because I was in a then 7 year relationship with another woman, but it got me into this crazy mess I'm in now I guess. Well, needless to say she got hired in because of my reference and we started working together in August. I was basically her mentor and taught her the position. Because of this we got real close on a friendship level and even got kind of flirty at times for the first two months. Then it happened. One night we went out and wound up kissing. Now mind you, I'm in a 7 year relationship living my GF and she's in a two year relationship talking about marriage with her BF (he's a long distance thing from college). After our initial kiss she seemed taken a back, however just a few minutes later we were kissing more. After that we had a short little drunken chat where she said she was basically confused. Things settled until the next day where we happpened to working on a Saturday. When I saw her that day she immediately closed the office door and kissed me. At that point she said she just wanted to see what it felt like sober and then she said it felt great. We wound up going to lunch that day and talking; I was so excited about this girl and felt so strongly for her at that time from just the electricity between us then and the built up tension from our first few months that I was just smitten. I also knew it was wrong of me to still be with my GF so I broke it off that night. I still care about her to this day, I just couldn't do that to her, meaning be with her when I felt so just on cloud nine about someone else. So basically from then on it was fate (at least imo). Things moved real fast and a few weeks later we were talking consistently, flirting at work, hanging out, and eventually having sex. About a month after we started seeing each other she broke it off with her BF and it looked like things were ready to get serious. I felt like I had found my soulmate. I mean it was so exciting; she was very different than me and my old GF. We were already saying we loved each other and the moments we were having were so intimate. Then the rocky patches started. One night she texted me asking what I was up to; she was going out with her friends. I didn't get her text for about an hour or two because I was busy (don't remember what I was doing). So I texted her back and told her I'd give her a call later and I would love to go out with her for her b-day. So I called her a bit later and then some guy picks up and saying utter nonesense. So I'm freaking out at this point wondering what's going on. I call again and now a girl picks up; so I'm obviosuly pissed cause I'm not gettting ahold of my new girl (we'll call her C). So I text her saying what's up; get nothing back. So to make a long story short this goes on all night with guys picking up and stuff. So I'm texting her very upset and pissed off as I really just want an answer, a response, well an explanation as to what the hell is going on. I don't get one; I keep calling and texting once very hour or so. Now I know I should have just let it go, it just didn't seem right though; something was off. Then I notice that when I called her it went to a random person's voicemail not hers. I check the number it's still hers. In retrospect I believe my phone was on the fritz and calling a bunch of different numbers! Makes sense since from my calls a million different people were picking up the phone. Would make sense considering she swears nothing was going on too. But basically it was a really bad night; I thought she was betraying our love and just wanted an aswer, on her end she prob. Thought I was being controllling or needy so she ignored me. Sorry about the rambling I'm just venting about this whoel thing. So we eventually got through that though (I guess), but things since then had been always a push-pull game. She wanted to be just casual - so I pushed further to show her I'm worth her love. Then I try to pull away and she's says no we'll make it work, she'll try harder. So basiclaly this stuff has been going on now for 6 months; it's May now and it started in Mid-November. After easter I was upset she didn't call me at all that day, so I just couldn't take it anymore and called her at 1am saying . I mean she's supposed to care about me, but didn't even think to call. At this point though, we were still technically "casual" as she never wanted to put a label on us and I could sense didn't want things to be "serious". The funny part though is we would hang out all the time, have all these romantic moments with one another, say we love one another, but yet she still didn't want me to meet her family or be serious I mean it made no sense. I guess I was putting up with it, just hoping for things to get more serious because I care about her so much and love her wholly and completely. Sometimes from her I felt the same, sometimes I didn't. So basically though, after easter the next day she said we should cool things off and that "if they are meant to be later, we'll be together" or some junk. She said she just needs closure on her old relationshhip she never got and needs to be alone for a while. So for a few weeks I dealt with the unbearable pain of letting go. The problem is that she would still on occasion try to kiss me and would also call me to talk for support etc. She would say that she's so close to me and that she still loves me, and that I should have a little faith in regards to us. I'm an emotional wreck right now and don't know what to do. Last night I called her and told her we just need to be professional for now; even though it's not what I want. I know in my heart I love her and will do anything to be with her. It's tough though because part of me wants to (metephoriclaly) camp outside her place for the next 20 years to profess my undying love for her, but part of me also knows that there is the stupid "chase" games that girls like. I guess my new approach is to go with the "chase-girls like mystery-bad boys" approach and be distant, but even that's really hard because I see her every day at work and I can't really avoid her calls because I'm on call for work so if it's work related I need to pick up and how do I know when she calls. Please help, any advice, I'm sorry about the long long long message, I just needed to vent my feelings. I want to be with her still; it's really hard because I could let go of this, but I've never felt this way before and I don't believe I can feel this strongly about someone again. I don't want to let go and then lose this whole thing because of resentment on my part, denial of feelings - narcisscim, or anything else. Any idea of how to make this work; this hurts really bad. I definitely love her.

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Then it happened. One night we went out and wound up kissing. Now mind you, I'm in a 7 year relationship living my GF and she's in a two year relationship talking about marriage with her BF (he's a long distance thing from college).

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Sounds like you both put too much fuel on the fire. You immediately dump your ex of 7 years for this new, greener, girl, when she wasn't even out of a relationship yet?

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So basically from then on it was fate (at least imo).

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Nothing is fate. Your future is what you make it. If you believe that it was fate that brought you two together, I guess it was fate that broke you up as well.

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About a month after we started seeing each other she broke it off with her BF and it looked like things were ready to get serious.

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Past behavior determines future behavior. She dumped her BF for you. What do you think would happen to you when the next guy comes along? She will wait and cheat for a month before you're out the door. How do you know she wasn't fooling around anyway?

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So to make a long story short this goes on all night with guys picking up and stuff. So I'm texting her very upset and pissed off as I really just want an answer, a response, well an explanation as to what the hell is going on. I don't get one; I keep calling and texting once very hour or so. Now I know I should have just let it go, it just didn't seem right though; something was off. Then I notice that when I called her it went to a random person's voicemail not hers. I check the number it's still hers. In retrospect I believe my phone was on the fritz and calling a bunch of different numbers! Makes sense since from my calls a million different people were picking up the phone. Would make sense considering she swears nothing was going on too.

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Hmm.. let me think about how many times my cell dialled wrong numbers, over and over and over again... none. She was probably playing with you the whole time. You rushed into something with a woman that you had no idea about. You should have let this go, but acted needy. She probably got sick of you bothering her.

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She wanted to be just casual - so I pushed further to show her I'm worth her love. Then I try to pull away and she's says no we'll make it work, she'll try harder. So basiclaly this stuff has been going on now for 6 months; it's May now and it started in Mid-November.

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I'm sorry, but 5 months would should not be serious yet. Casual yes, serious no. You fell into the deep end with her WAY too fast. You hardly even know each other and the headgames started. You've been played buddy.


Now this is what you should have done:

1. Worked out your problems with your now ex of 7 years.
2. Left this girl and her relationship with her, now ex, BF alone.
3. If things were not working out, between you and your old ex, you should have taken the time to regroup after that in order to find out what you want in a partner.
4. Your new girl/new ex, should have done the same thing
5. You should have recognized the HUGE red flag of this girl messing around with you while still with her ex BF.


This is what you need to do now:

1. Don't repeat your pryor mistake of dumping someone and immediately getting with another.
2. Let go of this girl and take sometime and rebuild your life with out a girlfriend.
3. Realize what happened and why this ended this way.
4. Realize that if a woman messes around with you while still with someone else, she can easily do it again (this goes for guys too).
5. Do not contact either ex.
6. If she calls you at work. Ask her if she needs anything (work related) and politely keep the conversation short.
7. Be polite to her at work, the best you can, and keep yourself occupied. Try taking on projects that she is not going to be on.


Sorry for the harsh post. You made a some bad choices and rushed into a relationship that had an un-healthy foundation from the start. It's time for you to heal and learn from these mistakes. Once you do, then find another woman and work on building the relationship the right way. I know you will make the right choice next time, given the stability of your previous relationship.

Good Luck. You will get through this like the rest of us.

Thanks for your comments jmw. The post was defintely harsh but I respect what you said. A couple things:

1. The red flag you speak about has never been an issue for me as according to her (of course this is just what she says) she has never cheated on anyone before, in fact she has been cheated on in every long term relationship she's been in. Because of this and all the guilt she felt from what she did to her ex-BF I really didn't see that as anything more than a mistake that she felt remorse for. Also, she's a very religious person and I know religious isn't a perfect correlation with moral behavior; but I believe there is at least a correlation at times. So to me this has never been a concern of mine; a mistake that she made and felt remorse for and forgave herself for it only.

2. In regards to your comment about fate. I agree to a bit, but the "your future is what you make it" part resonates with me right now. If only I could "make my future" and be in control of it, then I would be with her right now.

3. About the phone call thing too: I guess I'm still not sure about this one. The fact that I was getting random people's voicemails (like, you've reached the voicemail box of "Joe Schmoe" and, hi it's "bla bla bla" leave me a message) though is what got me to think that is the case. The reason I vividly described that incident though is I believe it was the beginning miscommunication that brought the house down.

4. Your last comment about not being serious. Well I agree in a ideal world true, it would be nice to do that. That doesn't mean people don't met each other though and quickly become serious; I mean there are plenty of weddings even after only 6 months of dating; hell my friends grandpa married his wife (granted he's russian) after only a week of dating (not that this extreme is a good idea). The seriousness was mutual though too, at least at first. Then I agree though after she tried pulling away, and I subsequnetly did, it definitely was a push-pull game with one person more serious than the other; and usually me on the more serious end.

I guess the reason I used the term fate too earlier is that this strong relationship was able to develop so fast and under such undesirable conditions. I guess to me that is the definition of true love - things are not set up this way and that way in formulaic fashion. It's like a beautiful song not in the key of G or away from the verse-chorus-bridge-chorus formula. I mean I was in a 7 year freakin relationship and she as in a 2 year one; the fact that we were willing to leave the comfort of those for the uncharted waters of newness has to mean something, right? I mean ultimately Romeo and Juliet had a very "unhealthy" relationship too, but to me (hopeless romantic; well new found with this current state, I mean wow what a change I was not like this before) it was very beautiful, I guess tragic of course, but also beautiful.

About your things I should have done; I agree with number 1, but the other stuff is 20-20 and I really don't regret it.

About the things to do:

1. I definitely agree that I would like to realize what happened; in fact that is almost consuming me right now. I'm a perfectionist and an over-analyzer so I really would like to know. The only thing she can give me is that she needs to get to know herself and be alone for a while, she says she needs to be selfish. Before it was that she needed closure on her old relationship as well, I guess she's recently got a little of that and that's where this newfound pain came from. I mean I went through a horrible couple weeks after we ceased things because she needed "closure". Then, earlier this week, she said she finally had that closure and explained to me that her old BF had a new girlfriend and had basically moved on, so she felt better. I guess when she was telling me this I assumed she was ready for something because that was the whole reason for our "break".

2. I am definitely trying to do the NC rule here too now. I just decided that last night as I finally broke after the new developments this week. She was upset of course because I'm so close to her, she says I'm the closest person in her life right now; but I told her I couldn't give her that unless we could be something more or at least build for something more. I can't just be there so she doesn't feel lonely.

Another rant: I still don't get it though, I mean I'm not trying to be a narccist or anything but I gave her everything and was willing to do so. I guess the only thing I can think of is I came across as the "needy" guy and that may be the problem. I am a successful caring man who works as a social worker, I am good with children, very good looking (according to others, lol), much better looking than any other man she's been with, I have learned what her wants are and tried to please her enough but not too much to avoid neediness, I'm tall, she's very cute but if we go 1-10 here I'm a little higher on physical attractiveness (of course that is in the eye of the beholder and I'm starting to understand that girls care less about that then men in general), I'm goal oriented, I gave her space to be with her family and encouraged her to see her friends (I mean all I was asking for was a little contact on holidays and maybe to see her outside of work once a week), I have a good sense of humor, I took her to do new experiences and planned others with her to keep thing interested and make sure she didn't get "bored" with me (in fact most the time we weren't out doing something was at her discretion), I pleased her very well in bed (she said it was better than anyone else), I was always in tune with her insecurities and made sure to poke at them a little but also attend to them in order to keep things interesting, I mean the list goes on and on. I just don't get it. I know I sound like a Borderliner (BP disorder) right now; I'm normally not like this, honest. I guess I'm just trying whatever it takes to make myself feel a little better and this is helping a little; I can feel my dopamine levels increasing a tiny bit as I vent and type here.

I guess the main problem was that I thought she was different from most girls and that I didn't have to play the "i'm not that interested in you" game with her. Because of that line of thinking I was always very open about my feelings and willing to cry in front of her if needed or tell her how I felt. I can see where she would want a "strong" man, scratch that not man, but CARICATURE. I can see where she would want the Machismo caricature if she's like other women and I guess in that respect she's just like the rest and that's bs. I guess I just expected more out of her if that's the case.

In line with the problem of me being to open with her was the push-pull game. When I was on the "clingy" end (most of the time unfortuatenly), I would tell her I wanted more and she would listen and always seemed sincere. I guess in the back of my mind though I always knew there would be a breaking point; a point where she would just say OK, this guy's too needy and not worth it. I guess I was just hoping that she cared for me enough (this assumption brought about by the things she would ssay about not being able to live without me, and always loving me more today than yesterday stuff) to know and accept that my "clinginess" was just a transient state and not my permanent one. That it was merely a result of the ups and downs of what we were going through. I still hope sometimes that she comes to that realization too.

I guess the real issue at hand is how I act with her at work. Do I be flirty at all (if so to what degree), cold, polite but distant, etc... I mean we work in VERY CLOSE quarters as I'm basically her supervisor (not technically so no sexual harassment, phew!). Her office is right next to mine and I can hear her in there all day long. Also to paint a picture, our office is only 6 full-time staff and her and I are the only program staff so we basically tag team everything. I prob. Talk to her half of the day if not more. This situation is horrible. Right now I'm trying to be nice and friendly but keep the professional boundaries in tact. Over the months we have developed a lunch ritual basically too where we basically go out to llunch together everyday. Today I went with her. I guess I'm just trying to be nice at work and chit-chat about outside of work stuff, but then leave it there. I did tell her last night I want things just professional so I don't want any contact outside of work unless it's work related (unfortunate since as I said I'm on call 24/7 365). This makes it that much harder though as I have to see her smile all the time and laugh with her when she tells a joke or something. I don't know does anything think I should be cold with her? I guess I'm honestly trying to be nice and friendly at least at work for a few reasons:

1. One I'm still at the "not given up hope" stage so I'm thinking that if there is ANY shot of us getting together, me being nice as opposed to cold will positively contribute to any chances.

2. Two, since we work so close together I don't want things to become so jaded between us that it affects my clients. (Though to be honest, this is more of me just rationalizing point 1 in a way so I don't feel like a complete chump and it makes it a litlte tiny bit easier to deal with it)

I guess the downfall of this approach is that it may make moving on a litlte more difficult.


I just don't know anymore. We've gotten so close over these months and even though the previous commenter said you don't really know someone after only 6 months; I think I know her better than I knew my GF of 7 yeaers that I lived with for 2. I think that's the worst part is that I thought I knew her SO well that this whole thing has broadsided me completely because I didn't expect based on her previous behavior. Though I guess in my subconsicious all along I was worreid she would snap with this push-pull game that was going on; maybe not though, it's hard to say.

Any advice though would be great; I'm just lost. Venting on here is helping though and I apprecaite the comments. I also really appreciate reading other people's experiences as it's good to know other people go through this same thing.

Thanks.

You have a very tough situation to deal with. I would suggest being as polite as possible and remain as civil as possible, so you don't jeopardize your job.

The daily lunch plans should probably stop for now. You need time to reflect and she does too. Going out to lunch with her all the time will hold you back from moving forward.

I don't think the attractiveness factor has anything to do with this. You can't sit there and rationalize what happened based on this or that. Just take the situation for what it is and proceed accordingly.

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In regards to your comment about fate. I agree to a bit, but the "your future is what you make it" part resonates with me right now. If only I could "make my future" and be in control of it, then I would be with her right now.

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The future is what you make for yourself. You can't shape OTHER people peoples futures or make decisions for them. You only have control of how you lead your life. You also have to live with the consequences of the choices you make. This is why that saying holds true.

Vent on here as much as possible. Think of this site as group therapy.

Try not to analyze every little thing that happened between you and this girl. You will drive yourself crazy. Just realize at some point, her feelings changed and she made the decision not to be with you anymore. You must respect her decision and work on healing yourself.

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Try not to analyze every little thing that happened between you and this girl. You will drive yourself crazy. Just realize at some point, her feelings changed and she made the decision not to be with you anymore. You must respect her decision and work on healing yourself.

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Thanks for your encouraging words jmw I appreciate it :).

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I definitely agree that I would like to realize what happened; in fact that is almost consuming me right now

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Your impulsive actions, and bad decisions, caused you to make a very big mistake.

What do you think would happen, when two people form an attachment to each other, and cheat together, instead of thinking things through, and staying within the bounds of good behavior?

Jumping from one relationship to another, seldom works out.

All you can do now short of firing her, is keep it strictly business, and heal finally.

^^ Best advice, said from the Man himself!

Threads merged

A quick note that I've vented on here before with a very very very long message and I know it was probably ridiculous but I thank everyone for being supportive.

I work in very close quarters with my "ex". For a while we had been going back and forth in a push-pull relationship until Easter when I guess I pushed her over the edge. She hadn't called me all day so I called her in the evening pretty upset (at about 2am); I know it was not a good idea, it was just consuming me at the time. After that she said she needs time to figure things out, she doesn't want to be with anyone. Really she had been singing that same song since close to the beginning of our relationship as to her we were technically never "boyfriend and girlfriend" after 6 months of "dating". During that time there were times where she would act as if she were very very very close to me saying she loved me and wanted to be with no one else, and there were times she was as distant as the eye can see. She says it's because she didn't have time to sort out her previous relationship (we both left old relationships for this in a way) and usually needed time to figure herself out in between relationships. In her own words she "just wanted to be selfish for a while".

The problem is that she is sending me mixed messages. There are times where she is very lovey dovey and says she can't see herself with anyone else. There are times when she will say sweet things like it will all work out with us or something along those lines. Also she still wants to kiss and be affectionate at times.

Is she confused?
Is she leading me on to keep her options open?
Is she in love with me (as she's said many times before) but not ready for a relationship as she's said?

She's told me to have some faith in her and trust her when she says it's really just the third thing, but I'm having a very hard time believing that.

I've been trying to let go of this but it's tough because I:

1. see her everyday at work
2. Still hope to be with her to a degree - though my defense mechanisms and fear of being in despair again from another let down are dampening this (in a way thankfully, in a way not, as I truly did enjoy the good times)
3. Have to pick up her calls because I am on call 24/7/365 for work so it could be work related.

I've told her before we should go NC, but it has been difficult with these circumstances. I'm starting to get to the point (I hope it's not falsely though) where I see myself more comfortable with the way things are so I may be willing to give things a try very slowly, but I don't want to compromise myself; it's hard to tell if I am or not in this situation.

With that in mind right now I've been keeping my distance from her but letting her initiate contact via text or phone in regards to us talking outside of work as well as kissing, etc. At first I was very angry about this "arrangement" but I thought I was being used for what she wants from me, but now I'm getting more comfortable with this as I am attempting to continue to let go - be guarded to protect myself, but also be open to things working out.

I'm considering intiating some light contact myself just to show her I'm still interested, though I may wait a few weeks on this one to let the dust settle some more. Probably the latter. It's tough though because if I truly believe what she's saying in regards to us then getting things moving along slowly would be apprpriate, but if she is lying or confused then it may wind up opening the scar that I'm trying so desperately to close.

I don't know this it's a tough situation.

It doesn't matter if she loves you or not. If she doesn't want a relationship, when sitting around waiting for it to happen is the worst thing you can do.

Focus on yourself, don't change your life and your routine for her. You deserve someone who knows that they want you. If her own life isn't sorted out yet, then that's her business, not yours.

Is she leading you on? Probably; she wants to keep as many options available as she can. However, this also means she wants to be able to date someone else, if she so chooses. People never seem to look at the other side of what "giving her space" really means.

Sort out your own life, and if she comes around and decides she wants you (and you decide that you want her, too) then good for you two. If not, then good for you anyway.

~ Tee

Thanks for the thoughts and support tri, I really appreciate it. You make some really good points. :)

Threads merged

I posted a way while back with a long, long, long vent about my current situation and I think I may need that again here (and any advice, suggestions, etc.). I'll try to keep this as brief as possible:

Well, a co-worker and I have been on and off for about 9 months now. I found myself madly in love with her and she said she loved me too, but our relationship has always been a bit unbalanced. It seems as though when I push in, she pushes away. Then I'll go NC-push away for a while and she'll push back in and we'll start up again, then we will fall back into me trying to meet her family-develop the foundation of a real relationship and her pushing away and vice versa. Well, we've been back and forth several times now and I'm trying my best to break this cycle. About a week and a half ago (Thu. 6/18) I came over after we made plans to hang out and once again we wound up fighting. I finally decided to try my hardest to break this cycle at that point. So that night we sat down by a river (picturesque, huh) and I discussed with her that I love her (she said the same) and that I'm tired of these games. I told her that I ultimately want to make this work however I can't keep compromising myself in order to make this work. She was crying and everything but I tried my best to stay strong, saying that we need to stop things right now and let the emotional dust settle because ultimately we are in a cycle that must be broken as it was getting worse, and eventually the resentment one or both us would carry is too great. Well after that she would send me sweet texts on occasion and then at work act a litlte flirty. To me it was bittersweet; on the one hand it was nice to know that she still cared about me, but on the other, the thoughts of being used (ala maybe she's trying to keep me stringed along until she finds something better, ultimately based in my lack of trust for her that has eroded over time) were strong. So last week I just couldn't take it anymore; it was confusing me too much so I told her we have to be strictly professional for now and that if we are meant to be, that after we let go of the past; it will still be there.

The problem here:

I've invested too much into her that I don't want to lose this relationship. I know I have to because holding on like this will ultimately make me resent her, or worse be vengeful, however It has been so hard. I've never invested more into something than I have this in my entire life. Rebuilding myself has been absolute hell and basically I've been miserable both on or off the "relationship" (used in quotations of course) for months on end here. I guess I'm a strong or stubborn person though because I don't want to let go of the possibility of something amazing; I don't want to look at her and not think about her being my wife. I don't want to hear her voice and feel like I'm melting with joy and excitement. Yes, it's been hell, but when things are working; at least for me, every experience has been the most amazing. I literally can remember every memory we've had; and the good ones are spectacular. It's hard though because I'm coming to the relization that I may have to let go of those strong positive feelings in order to let go of the negative as well. The problem though is the movie Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Will I realize as I let the good fade, that those memories are an important part of myself. Will I want them back as they fade in a moment of absolute clarity. Or is there a way I can hold onto the feeling that runs over me when I look at her and see my hopes and dreams flood over to the emotional surface?

I know I sound very melodramatic here and I am. I understand that one could easily say that my maturity (I'm 25 by the way just in case people are wondering) is lacking because how can I feel this way so quickly, or feel this at all; but I know these feelings are real. I've endured absolute hell for them to understand just how real they are; they have not fleeted when I get filed with sadness; they remain as strong as ever. Does being mature mean you are incapable of falling completely and madly in love; do you numb those feelings out as you "mature", or can they remain?

I honestly feel sometimes that I'm "bo-plar in love"; the highest highs and the lowest lows.
I guess I'm having an existential crisis or something here.


Any help would be great. I'm going to have to see her at work again tomorrow (we work together in very close quarters) and I'm just scared. There are times were I don't want to feel so strongly for her; but there are times where I realize just how amazing those feelings are that those don't come along every day. I guess I'm just trying to do my best to fight the misery and be true to myself and accept that things most likely won't work out between us and that no matter how hard I try; I can't do this alone, it takes two to make a relationship work. I'm tired of the games, but I guess the thought of ending the games (games = trying to keep ultimate goal of us being together and direct behavior based on tha) is difficult to accept because then I also must accept that I may not have these amazing moments anymore. Moments that just overun me with pure and abosolute joy.

Help me please. I'm trying very hard here; this vent has helped a little and any added encouragement, empathy, etc. would be awesome.

From what you've described the relationship has never been healthy - on/off, on/off. You pushed - she pulled back, she pushed - you pulled back.

You're now doing the same thing again - you've declared that it's over and you want it to be 'professional'. You've pulled back and she's sending the flirty texts. Now you've changed your mind again and you think you want her back.

You say that you don't want to lose what you've invested in the relationship. I would like to ask why you see this as an investment? An investment in what? A fantasy about the sound of her voice? A romance that doesn't work for either of you?

If you are genuinely tired of the games which you both generate then stop. Just stop. It hasn't worked for 9 months - why would it start working now? Neither of you know how to change the cycle, so stop it. Be professional at work and create a life outside work without her.

Letting her go doesn't mean that you'll lose the memories - there may be some regret, but that will fade. Please don't get stuck in a hopeless romantic fantasy - listen to your intuition on this one - it's not working, and by the sounds of it, it never will.

Quote:

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Now you've changed your mind again and you think you want her back.

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In terms of that, I don't think I've ever fully changed my mind. The web of confusion I have wrapped myself (or been wrapped in) has turned things into a difficult situation. I'm currently working to accept "stopping", however I'm scared for what may be lost.

Quote:

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You say that you don't want to lose what you've invested in the relationship. I would like to ask why you see this as an investment? An investment in what? A fantasy about the sound of her voice? A romance that doesn't work for either of you?

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In terms of the investment; I guess you may be right. It is a fantasy, a hope, a dream that things will work out. It may be naïve to hold out against most hope, however the line of perservance is a difficult one to stand on. I guess I'm hoping that we can both work past this and be together ultimately because of the positive experiences we have had. Like the times where we went to the park and had a picnic or walked along a stream and let our thoughts flow freely talking about our hopes and dreams.

I guess your right though, I am at the stage where I am in a hopeless romantic fantasy. I've always been a dreamer that's routed for the underdog-the difficult path and I have a difficult time letting go because of that. For better or worse I have always been the person who idealizes the truimph over difficult situations.

I am an emotional driven person (INFP) for worse and better so it is very difficult for me to look at things from an objective standpoint, but I do understand where you are coming from. The harsh reality outside of my hopes and dreams is difficult to tread on though. The thing is, without people attempting to overcome difficult odds, the joys of life would be unrealized; I guess its been difficult for me to grapple with that conundrum over time. I have truly always been an idealist.

It's a difficult situation though, I understand.

It sounds like one, if not, both of you are holding on to the relationship (or what's left of it) because as strange as it sounds, you find it "exciting" having this push/pull back and forth. It's almost as if this "drama" is persistent and the driving factor in this relationship.

Bottom line- if you two can't have a functional relationship, which it seems like you can't, then you need to let it go. It'll be hard, but it sounds like you should. Relationships take a lot of work or they fizzle out... and it seems like the only thing that's keeping your relationship "exciting" is all the drama.

I can imagine how hard this is going to be, having to see your perhaps-soon-to-be-ex with you at work every day, but you can do it with some persistence.

Try to think objectively. You need more than love to have a relationship.

I appreciate your comments Mooney; you sound very sincere and your thoughts about the exictement part really resonates with me. It resonates in that I could see her doing that. In fact just today she perceived that I was flirting and checking out with other co-workers and interns when I was not. Then she preceded to attempt to make me feel jealous by almost groping a staff member in front of me and then going into her office with him with the door shut. I'm not going to lie it did make me feel jealous, but the fact that I recognize the games being played means something and helps me get understand and get through these thoughts and feelings.

Either way I'm trying my best; thanks again.

Sorry to hear your still stuck in this situations, and nice vent by the way, but until YOU make a decision as to the path you will follow, you will be venting your a$$ off forever.

Its very clear, you are stuck because you want her to make a decision for you, and she doesn't, because she likes things the way they are, she has options, and benefits, whenever she wants.

You on the other hand allow her to confuse you, and treat you whatever way she wants to. NOT HER FAULT at all. Its yours, for not making a decision for yourself, based on facts, and not just feelings.

That's why your stuck, and trying to figure it out, two months later.

Your choice, always has been.

Right now I'm not at the point to fully commit to letting go I don't believe; I wish it were that easy. It's like griefing the loss of a loved one; it is impossible to just one day turn your feelings off and say, "Ok i'm good now". That I am an emotional driven person; like many other people, and at least for me, I don't have a switch that says OK I'm going to follow this path now. It takes looking down the new path, going to the other, then going back to the new one many times to finally make a decision here.

I will say I am not letting her have it the way she wants though (casualness) because I know then I am not being true to myself; I think finally putting my foot down here and being true to myself has been a huge step in this whole process.

Plus for me making a decision even based on the facts is cloudy; the facts say that sometimes she is ready of something, and sometimes not. Based on those facts all I have is more confusion.

In terms of it not being her fault; well for me, and I guess it's very emotionally driven (anger maybe), but I do blame her. I believe that people should treat others with respect and have a sizable enough theory of mind to understand what others think and react accordingly. I believe that when you know you are abusing someone (as she has even stated) you need to control your behavior according to stop the abuse. In a family context if a spouse is verbally abusing their husband I believe it's appropriate for that spouse to have enough respect for that other person to stop doing that. I guess that's just me the idealist, and I understand the real world does not work like that, but I still do blame people for treating others that way just like I would blame that wife in that above scenario for abusing her husband rather than blame the husband for "taking" the abuse.

I do understand what your saying though talinan; it came across as harsh but as I re-read it I understand where you are going. I internalize blame a great deal though so it is very difficult for me to take harsh comments to heart though without it leading to further self-wallowing and blame. I generally react best to empathy and reassurance on the path that I am taking. Either way though it's good that your honest and I really appreciate it; talking on here and getting your and other people's input is and has been very helpful.

You can make a decision not to do anything stupid while you get to the point of moving on.

The confusion comes when you don't make a decision for yourself, not her. You keep throwing what you think she will give you into the mix of facts, and that's false hope, and will prolong the misery, and pain, and confusion until you do what you have to for yourself to heal, and move beyond the confusion.

Wallow all you want, I have seen that excuse for doing nothing used many times here, and take it from an older male, young buck, it accomplishes nothing, but more inaction, and further confusion. That's why I'm harsh because young guys (and girls) can be quite stubborn.

That's okay, you grow, and learn, like us all. I do have empathy, but not pity.

Thanks for your comments again taliniman.

I guess now it's just figuring out just exactly what it is I must do to heal myself. The confusion has made it difficult to distinguish between what's for me and what's for us/anyone else.

I feel like every weekend I get a little better but then lose progress during the work week after seeing her. I find myself (like I am today actually) overanalyzing every little move that is made between us and trying to deconstruct everything to decipher how she feels about me, how I feel about her, the jist of us, what I can do to bring her in, bla bla bla bla bla. It's been very hard to figure out the SELF in all of this hidden behind all the defense mechanisms, fear, and everything else between.

How do I act for myself? Do I take an entirely hedonistic approach; I fear that does not take into account for long term consequences. So what do I do then, arghh, I'm so confused trying to figure out me, especially since I'm stuck around her so much.

Keep it work related and friendly, but cut the personal stuff by keeping it brief, like your to busy doing your job, and that makes you unavailable.

It takes time, so be patient, and get busy for yourself, and just reading the stickies will help a lot. There is a link in my signature.

Thanks again talinan, yeah the sticky about the steps was very moving (I read it a while ago :).

I'm sure I'll be back here to vent, I'm just going to keep being true to myself and taking it one day at a time.

I day at a time is the best course of action. No reason to think about tomorrow... it ain't even here yet...

Update:

Been thinking about her a lot today and yesterday and just feeling very low. The little control I have over my thoughts is scary and frightening. I just can't stop thinking about her motives. I know asking the question, seeking the answer doesn't help anything, but my thoughts are just out of control. I keep thinking that if I know/confirm she's lying to me about her intentions (i.e. she needs to find herself and be with herself/alone/be selfish) that it'll be easier to let go. I keep thinking that if I know she's actively seeking someone else or seeing someone else (which I have an inkeling; is it related to my paranoia about the situation though, who knows) It'll make things easier. Letting go of this is just so hard. Right now that thought is hard to let go of and it is almost consuming me.

Tomorrow she comes back to work too, and the thought of seeing her again is just plain painful. It's like the calm before the storm; you know it's coming so it's almost even worse than the actual fury that results.

I appreciate everyone's empathy and suggestions here though. I really am trying my damndest to just let things go; I just feel like every time I take a step forward, I soon take one right back. Going on three months of pure confusion and I see no end to this. My hope is waning a lot over the last few days.

My goals right now:

1. abandon all hope of her and I
2. Let go of the past
3. Not dwell on things (easier said than done)
4. Be happy again for the first time in 3 months
5. Stop thinking about what went wrong - how to fix things - it's unfixable
6. Remove her from my life
7. Stop wallowing and riding the emotional rollercoaster thinking about everything

Steps:

1. I think it's finally time I seek medical help, i.e. a psychologist-therapist. I don't know what else to do. I still strongly oppose medication because of lack of research on the long term ramifications for messing with your dopamine and serotonin levels, but at least seeing someone once a month or more (although I don't know if insurance covers more than once a month).
2. Immersion in things I used to like to do. I've been forcing myself to play some video games over the last few days and although it's been miserable at times, I've at least been trying.
3. New hobbies; I'm taking up biking, running, and getting back to reading again.
4. Journaling; this one is a toughy as I've been doing it. It can help, but actually keeps the wallowing going sometimes so need to be careful here as it can be a very powerful tool but needs to be harnessed accordingly.
5. See my friends - keep up on social activities; this one's very hard as I know I've been making my friends/family miserable with my debby downer self for 3 months now, but I have to keep forcing myself to be around others.
6. Working out - playing basketball, physical exercise is huge.
7. When at work focus on work only - Stay away from her to the best of my abilities - be cordial and nice, but keep things very professional.

*Update about last night: Last night we spoke (for various reasons) and I expressed once again my problems with the situation. I know I was just circling the issue trying/hoping to be able to fix things or know that she changed her mind, but as usual things are the same. At the end of the conversation I made a commitment that we would not discuss "us" for at least a month. I know putting a timeframe on things is weird and probably not the best approach, but I hope this helps me stop contacting her (or after she contacts me) to ask WHY; as in why are things not working, what is the problem, etc. I need to stop trying to fix things and waiting for her to change her mind. I know that this cycle is occurring and that it is actually further straining any chances of us getting back together (because she's getting sick of it). And I know I shouldn't stop talking to her about "us" for her sake or because I secretly hope for us to get back together, but in this case my warped view actually winds up being the right choice I do believe. It allows both of us to step away and let the emotional dust clear. The problem that I have here is that I really don't want to be doing something for her sake/holding the secret hope of reconcillation in mind. I'm trying to stop this cycle for my own sake, or I keep telling myself that, but the back of my mind creeps in and says you are stopping "us" talks for one month (or more, that was just to show I mean business I guess at the time and that I'm serious out breaking this cycle; it was more of a show then I know, I'm just hoping it's more over time) for her to not have to think about things (as she says these talks bother her because she's trying not to think about our situation and focus on herself - she also gets upset because I bring up that I'm trying to let go and my progress toward that and that bothers her) and with the secret hope of getting back together. I'm trying to do this for me, I just feel like I'm lying to myself when I say that right now. I don't want to not ask her about "us" for her sake or because I have secret hopes but right now that seems to be why I'm doing it and I'd be lying if I said otherwise. Does that mean I shouldn't not (double negative) talk to her about us, or is it the way to go regardless of my intentions. I am trying to do this for me, just right now I'd be lying to say I am. Any help anyone, suggestions, about this issue?

Thanks for allowing me to vent again everyone.

Harsh alert

It would help if you put positive actions to your words or else your just running off at the mouth, and letting your mind play tricks on you.

Sometimes it pays just to shut up, not to say your vents are not good for you. But your actions with her are about being professional, not a lovesick monkey.

You also should not be discussing anything personal, just business. The only alternative is one of you has to go!

Man up, and do as your supposed to do.

Thanks talianman for your suggestions.

Like I said in the message before, my actions are to keep things professional. The problem I have is the hope that lies; I'm worried that my actions are playing into my false hope as they are at this point directed at an ultimate goal (as I stated before). I guess what I'm asking now is, is it OK to act "professional" even if I'm not being true to myself?

I don't want to lie to myself, so I'm just plain confused.

Fake it till you make it?

Thanks again.

Why would you fake being a professional?? Don't let false hope give you doubts about doing what you have to do, or allow your mind to play tricks on you.

Your ultimate goal is to heal, and get objectivity back, not get her in the sack, or have her fall for you.

Thanks again talinan.

I wouldn't necessarily "fake being a professional". I was more talking about faking my emotions while at work because on the inside I feel like a complete wreck but can't express that outwardly. It is very difficult to look her in the face and not be overrun with every emotion in the book at work of all places. Never again will I date anyone I work with, this sucks really bad. I just feel so hurt and that I can't heal because I'm stuck seeing her and being reminded by my thoughts, emotions, and feelings constantly.

I do understand, and believe me, I feel for you. She doesn't have to know the turmoil your in, and that's for the best.

It will take a lot more work on your part though, to tame those feelings, but in time we do get them under control.

Its like back in school when you break up with someone you see everyday, and as back, then our interest move to other things, as we accept the end of one relationship, and move to another.

As adults we don't move as fast, or change our interests, and focus, as quickly as we did, but we do work through it. So will you.

Thanks again talianan for your comments.

Update about today:

My weekend was OK; I felt down in the dumps for the most part, but started to come through a little bit on Sunday. Then this morning hit; driving to work I knew seeing her again would bother me a little bit but I felt as though I was at least prepared enough. Then I walk in the door and she asks me how my weekend was; I say it was OK. I ask her how her's was being cordially then. Now here comes the kicker:

She goes on to tell me that her weekend was great and that yesterday she got so drunk she threw up. She was laughing and giggling telling me how she went out with her brother-in law's, sister, and her brother in law's friends on a boat. She told me she at one point was dancing on the boat and then tripped and fell off into the water. She even showed me a bruise on her knee from it. The whole time she's laughing and talking about the grand ole time she had with his guy friends, talking about some guy Nate and whatnot.

I was not prepared for this; the thought of her dancing on a boat in a bikini with a bunch of guys all drunk just completely wrecked me. Every feeling in the book just overwhelmed me; I felt unwanted, angry, upset she had SO MUCH fun, oh and super super super Jealous that she was doing this stuff with other men around. The angry and depression combo is just scary.

I don't know what to do; I feel like weeping, I feel angry and jealous as well. I just don't know how to get through these feelings right now. I feel like all my progress is ruined again and I'm back to square one.

Why would she tell me that; is she trying to hurt me? Is she really that unaware that saying that stuff would hurt me so dearly? Is this part of a game with her or something? Why? I'm confused and hurt.

She got so drunk she fell off a boat... I don't know any guys that would have thought that was cool. If you ask me, I would be glad to be rid of someone who behaves like a total drunk a$$. There is NOTHING attractive about that. I remember my ex telling me stories like that and feeling totally hurt and devastated... now, I realize how lucky I am that I don't have to be the responsible one while she is aboslutely blitzed.

On the flip side, I know you hurt and I know EXACTLY what you are going through. Keep venting! Let it all out.

It also sounds like she might be getting a rise out of your reaction to her stories. Unless she's incredibly stupid, she probably knows her talking about other guys, etc hurts you. So if she does already know this, she's either doing it to dig at you or she's actually over everything. My guess is she's being spiteful. Then again I don't know her.

You will feel SO much better the day she tells you a story and you could care less what happened. If this hurts you so much, then next time she starts talking about her weekend just excuse yourself or cut the conversation short. Next time just keep the pleasantries simple and short with no details.

I know you want to be nice to her... but she's not being nice to you.

You need a ball kick. Shapam! This girl is a moron. Sorry... anyone who gets so wasted that they fall off a boat deserves it. You sound like a nice guy and you don't need that crap. I don't want to date a girl who gets so drunk she can't control herself. I am interested in meeting someone with SOME sense of control.

The same control motives in her brain that say "hey I shouldn't cheat on my X" are the same control movies that should say "Hey i am really wasted, I should prolly cut back on drinking right now".

It just sounds like she is a game player, a flirt, and not as bright as she comes off. It sounds like she is a manipulator and an attention seeker.

And it sounds like you are stuck inside your head.

You have two choices. 1) go on being miserable or 2) grow up and get over this scumychick.

Yeah 1) is so much easier than 2) but you have to just put your foot down and eventually say enough is enough. How many months are you going to dwell on this chick before you get tired of being such a downer??

Write down a list of all the horrible things she is, and the horrible things you "THINK" she has done... I don't care if she hasn't cheated on you, if you think she has, write it down. Then the second you think about her, pull your list out and recite it.


ALSO!! Why the heck are you letting her tell you about your weekend!! Can't you say hi and then be like, hey I'd love to hear your story but I have to go to the bathroom, or I have a phone call to make, and just blow her off?? The fact that you sit there and listen to the whole story makes me even feel depressed. Goodness! Slap yourself out of it!

Dude relax a minute here, and realize she is fishing for a reaction from you. Don't give her one. Busy but brief, and unavailable. Hi, and bye. Since you don't have the quick wit, and acid tongue, it takes to stop her, in her tracks.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I really can't explain how important it is in helping me get out of these emotional rollarcoasters. I'm trying so so so hard to let go of this garbage. I can't imagine anything hurting any worse than all of this nonsense I've been through the last 3 months now and I'm really at my wits end here. I'm this close to just quiting my job and moving on to something else because the emotional turmoil is just killing me.

I've been trying my damndest to avoid her when things like this come up it's just difficult because sometimes it's in a group setting during a meeting or something (not the drinking on a boat, but some other stuff) and I'm forced to sit and listen.

The other kicker is that she asks me why I'm so upset and walking around all moopy and angry. DUH! It's obvious why I'm doing that. I try as hard as I possibly can to turn my emotions off and ignore it but I can only do so much; sometimes my depression rears its ugly head in behavior; I'm hiding it the best I can it's just hard. The fact that she comes back at me like, "why you so angry lately, gese" just makes it even worse. I have no idea how to respond to that; I usually just say, oh no I'm fine, I have no idea what you're talking about, because I think she's just trying to see if I'm still all hung up on her. I don't want to give her the satisfaction of knowing that is the case either. The only thing is that in doing that I'm playing a game right back at her and not being honest. The whole thing is just confusing. I'm trying so hard to let go of her; just let go. I really want to say, I don't want to be with her and truly mean it, in my heart.

I literally just scheduled to see my doctor this week. I can't take it anymore, I need professional help at this point. I'm pretty against mental health medication, but at this point I just want to go one day without feeling like I'm completely empty and worthless on the inside.

Talinan, what do you mean by acid tougue or quick wit; how would I respond to that with wit?

Stop pretending your okay, and just tell her out right your not interested in her drunk escapades and walk away, or whatever story she tells. You don't have to act like everything is okay, so don't, since its not in your make up, nor part of your style.

You have to work within yourself, to be yourself, to protect yourself.

You don't have to be TOTALLY honest with her... you don't owe that to her anymore given how you aren't dating. You were honest with her post break up and poured your heart out to her... and where did that get you?

You don't have to lie to her either. As Tal said, just be blunt with her and try to keep conversations REALLY short. She has verbal diarrhea right now and watching you squirm gives her power. Watching you react to her stories makes her feel better about herself. Don't give her that power over you.

I wouldn't suggest going on medication at all. See a therapist to talk through your stuff but try not to use medication as a crutch unless it's absolutely necessary.

And don't quit your job either unless you have some better prospects out there. If you like your job (minus the ex) then she shouldn't be a reason for you to leave. Then again, if it is too much... make sure you have something lined up before you clear your desk off.

Working with your ex is very difficult and it takes a LOT of willpower and determination to get past it.

"Hi, polar! How was your weekend?"

"Hi, blank! My weekend was GREAT! I can't talk right now. I have to catch-up on some work that needs to be finished. C-ya!"

Walk away.

OR

"Hey polar, me and my friends did this and I met this guy. He's so funny! Blah, blah, blah."

"That's nice, blank. But honestly, I don't have time to listen to all the s--- that you did the last couple of days. I have much more important things to do right now. Have a nice day!"

Walk away.

There. That's all you need to say. She needs to know that her life is SO TRIVIAL to you now. When she starts talking about crap that you don't want to hear, end the conversation on the spot, be blunt about it, and leave. She playing games and she knows it. So when she asks why you're so mad, call her out and tell her not to play dumb... she knows why. Then get back to work.

If she walks in to your office, tell you don't have time for her stupid s--- right now, you have work that you need to get done.

Every time she comes around and starts talking to you, or tries to start a conversation... YOU ARE BUSY with MORE IMPORTANT THINGS. Then WALK AWAY.

If she asks why you are avoiding her. YOU ARE BUSY with MORE IMPORTANT THINGS and WALK AWAY.

Hopefully she will get the hint.

This is not time to consider her feelings. She is not considering your's when she tells you all of this stuff. It's time to lay the smack down and put this woman back in her place.

Quote:

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By JMW,
This is not time to consider her feelings. She is not considering your's when she tells you all of this stuff. It's time to lay the smack down and put this woman back in her place.

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You are a quick witted, acid tongued devil!! Great post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by polarbear123

Thanks again talianan for your comments.

Update about today:

My weekend was OK; I felt down in the dumps for the most part, but started to come through a little bit on Sunday. Then this morning hit; driving to work I knew seeing her again would bother me a little bit but I felt as though I was at least prepared enough. Then I walk in the door and she asks me how my weekend was; I say it was ok. I ask her how her's was being cordially then. Now here comes the kicker:

She goes on to tell me that her weekend was great and that yesterday she got so drunk she threw up. She was laughing and giggling telling me how she went out with her brother-in law's, sister, and her brother in law's friends on a boat. She told me she at one point was dancing on the boat and then tripped and fell off into the water. She even showed me a bruise on her knee from it. The whole time she's laughing and talking about the grand ole time she had with his guy friends, talking about some guy Nate and whatnot.

I was not prepared for this; the thought of her dancing on a boat in a bikini with a bunch of guys all drunk just completely wrecked me. Every feeling in the book just overwhelmed me; I felt unwanted, angry, upset she had SO MUCH fun, oh and super super super Jealous that she was doing this stuff with other men around. The angry and depression combo is just scary.

I don't know what to do; I feel like weeping, I feel angry and jealous as well. I just don't know how to get through these feelings right now. I feel like all my progress is ruined again and I'm back to square one.

Why would she tell me that; is she trying to hurt me? Is she really that unaware that saying that stuff would hurt me so dearly? Is this part of a game with her or something? Why? I'm confused and hurt.

---

It is my first reaction that she is telling you these things to get a rise out of you. She wants to see how you react, and maybe make you jealous. I would say do not give her that satisfaction. And personally, I don't find anything attractive about a girl stumbling around all drunken on a boat... but that's just me. Don't let it affect you, and as others have said, I would maybe re-evaluate if that is the quality of character that you want in a girlfriend. Personally, if my girlfriend acted like that on a repeated basis, I would most assuredly end it.

You make some good points guys. I'm just emotionally exhausted at this point and trying to do my best to move on from this crazyiness.

I will say that since that happened more stuff has happened and it just makes me realize that I don't want this. I'm still in a tough place because when I see something that reminds me of her, it hurts dearly, but at least now I'm more aware of these triggers and can try my best to let the feelings come in and then come out all in one.

The other night she called me to apologize for blowing up at me at work and we got into the relationship talk again. I know she hates this talk, probbaly because it makes her feel guilty for the way she's treated me and she doesn't want to recognize that. I'm trying my best to avoid these talks as well for now too; the side of me that's avoiding it to please her though is dying. I am buildling toward avoiding these talks to allow myself to heal and because I am finally accepting that I can't talk her into wanting to be with me. No matter how I dress it up, no matter what reasoning I use, that will not change that she doesn't want to be with me.

More about that conversation too; so at one point in the conversation she says to me that she knows now that she wants her partner to be Catholic like her. Now I know that she's always preferred that, but that was never a deal breaker until the other day over the phone. That made me very angry because why did I build and pull so far with this if there was no opportunity for anything serious based on the fact that she wants her partner to be Catholic. The thing that makes me angry as well is that she in the same breath says she's not closing the door on us completely and that she still loves me and that if I was were Catholic later on (of course she says it would have to be for myself) then things may happen.
So, let me get this straight: you still have feelings for me, but I'm not Catholic so you won't be with me, oh and your not ready to be with anyone right now. Oh and she also said that she doesn't think I'm truly ready because she believes I didn't have the time to fully grieve my old relationship ending. I just don't know what to think about this crap. Anger immediately comes to mind because I put so much into something that according to her was doomed and she knew it. So why did we go through all of this if it was doomed in her mind from the start; why. It sounds like classic excuses to ease her own guilt, but I don't know. THe signs are written all over the wall, but a small part of me (getting smaller too) still believes she loves me. I guess that just stupid though, I don't know. Just writing this paragraph has made me so angry right now.

I hate to say it, but every once and a while, I wish she would have just shotgunned her way into another relationship (or at least I knew that she did, who knows if she has already, lol) so I could just be angry at her and maybe move through this faster. I know that would hurt too though ultimately and wouldn't make anything better; it's just an illusion of anger.

Also, she's next door in her office right now and looks so beautiful; It bothers me so much that I have to look at her everyday and be reminded of the way I feel for her. Same thing with hearing her voice, and all the other triggers that I associate with her. I just went in too hard too fast because of some idealized fantasy that this was true love so I put a lot of my eggs in the us basket. I created so many associations with her from music, places, magazines, clothing, jewelry, experiences, her car, her family structure, and so much more. Just so many associations. I had a trigger earlier too that I saw someone in a vehicle that looked like hers, it was a guy and I thought a girl was in the girl too and that it was her and some new guy driving around. It made me think that her and I use to do that and experience that simple pleasure together of holding eachothers hands and listening to music with the sunroof open together. The crazy array of emotions I felt at even the slightest threat that she was moving on to expeirence that with someone else, even though I clearly saw that was not her in the car, just made me realize how much farther I have to go in this.

The thought of her with someone else and experiencing all the great and amazing things we did together still completely rocks my core. I just wish I knew HOW to let go of this so that the prospect of that doesn't bring me to my knees with that crazy emotional combo of anger, sadness, doubt, and everything else. Wow, I've got a lot of healing left to do.

Makes getting over this just THAT much harder. I'll take my mom's advice next time; don't crap where you lie.

I don't know though; I think I'm making some small tiny mini progress though. Right now my two problems are:

How to act around her - I'm just trying to get out of my head on this one and just try to recognize my emotions, thoughts and feelings and go with what's best for me; right now I'm trying to just stay positive as I know short term I could be angry or moppy openly in the office but I need to be a big person here and not do that, espeically in a professional environment. I'm just trying to avoid her to a degree and keep things cordial, but also recognize my feelings and be fair to myself. I know at this point if she says something hurtful; I may fire back at her sometimes, I may just let go sometimes. We'll see on this one; there's really no right and wrong answer here I do believe other than being true to myself to the best of my ablilities in terms of trying ot heal and let go.

Stop trying to Fix things: every day it seems I get some ideas about how I could go about convincing her to want to be with me-love me, etc. errr however you want to word this one. RIght now I want to tell her that taking a chance on love can be rewarding. I want to say to her that although I may not fit her ideals as a "perfect man" for her (I.e. the Catholic crap), if she were to take a chance on love and embrace the way she says she feels about me, that although there's a chance one or both of us may get hurt, there's also a chance that we can be everything we've hoped and dreamed for. I want to say that I may just fit her "list" later (i.e. I have been to church with her and liked it so I'm pretty open to at least openly considering conversion; I won't do it unless I feel it, but hey that's a chance either way really, I do like the mass though), so why not take a chance on something you love, because otherwise your throwing away something potentially great. I want to kiss her and then say that so dearly; but I'm finally coming to grips with the fact that no matter what I say, nothing will change unless she decides to change her rigidness. I guess I just hope that the power of my convincing will help her with that; I'm trying to let go and say ot myself that I have no affect on her decisions, but that's hard to do for a number of reasons including the fact that I'd like to think that someone important to another can have an influence on their decisions; but maybe not, I guess I just have to keep coming to grips with the thought that I DON"T have a influence in this case and STOP trying to figure out WHY things didn't/don't work. The fact of the matter is that THEY DON"T; why is inconsequential. Now to put that thought into my mind and have it stick, that's a different story.

I just have to keep going along and trying to be happy and work through this so I can see her with someone else and be OK with it.

Thanks for the time to vent everyone :)

End Vent