I followed everyone's advice and spoke to him about everything even telling him that I don't trust him and I feel so much better besides feeling exhausted!

I brought up instances that I remember very clearly and his response was:-

Shocked! But, as its all of a sexual nature, he said that he felt sick and awful that I think of him this way and is devastated. He said its in my head, which I have not taken lightly, as I am a survivor of child sexual abuse and to be told that its in my head is devastating, as that means I'm sick. He swore on his family that it wasn't true and that I didn't see what I thought I saw. He blatantly sat there and said that what I saw didn't happen.

The problem is now I am starting to doubt myself. I know that I don't trust my instincts and I know I have a trust issue in the first place, but I am not blind. Is the sky blue?

I feel so exhausted! How do I get it out of him, as I don't think he is ever going to tell me.

What do I do? I'm not sure how I feel.

I forgot to mention that I have told him I am going home for a few weeks to think about everything, do you think this is right?

He asked if I was coming back- I said yes, I can't just walk away from everything!

I think it's a great idea for you to go home for awhile. It sounds like you've overcome so much don't fall backwards because of one guy. Your life is to precious to waste on someone who gives you guilt trips.

Take a long break and decide if you want someone who undermines your sanity and makes you doubt what your eyes see.

You have absolutely don the right thing! This man is trying to undermind you and you cannot let him do that. You need to stay strong and leave to take time and think. Hopefully you come to the conclusion that you deserve better than this! If he is willing to sit at stare you square in the face and lie... you don't want him in the first place!! :mad: If he is playing "footsie" right in front of you what is he doing when you are not there!! Also, what kind of friend would do that to you also? :confused: Why would she allow him to do that?

"Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again" (sounds corney) but so true.

He is the one that is going to lose in this situation. He will be losing you and everything you two have built together. He can have his "footsie friends" and the empty relationships that come with them. :o

Good luck and stay strong. ;)

He keeps asking me if I am OK today and that he is worried about me, its making me feel guilty and questioning myself! I know what I have seen with my eye's. I have told him 6 times now! I can't believe that I am mad! I have even wandered if I could have imagined these things as a result from my past, but that can't be true, as I am a sane person... considering!

With the footsie thing, I even remember moving his leg and her reaction! I have been re-confirming things in my mind for a long time.

She's an old friend of his, they went to school together! Not mine thank goodness, as we have never got on.

Anyway,

I think you need the time and space.

And his denying what you clearly saw doesn't mean a thing. A cheater can act with the best of them. If he's been fooling around behind you, he's been acting all along anyway.

The only new thing id say is the hypocrite comment from his friend might mean something different. I assumed this was his calling her a hypocrite because she was probably fooling around with him, and then she was going to go out with you.

After hearing how you never got on, maybe she just talks smack about you and doesn't like you and was being two faced in his eyes.

I don't know.

I think if you saw what you saw, there's more there. Even if he's not with her, he crossed a line in front of you that I would not accept... and I've already told you I am pretty comfortable with my wife innocently flirting now and then.

YEP - cheaters are the best actors - look at Hollywood.

I agree - you need some time to yourself. This guy needs time to GROW UP!!

I believe he will tell you anythng right now - he doesn't respect you.

Yes, you did the right thing. I doubt all of the things you remember are in your head. Also, remember, your gut is usually right. Almost always. My ex did the same things. I don't think she cheated, but she did many things which were baffling. And when I pointed them out to her, she would say she never realized this stuff bothered me, or why it would. Then she would do it again. And again, and a again.

You've done all you can. If he is this uncompromising and has such a lack of understanding, then he is not right. Also, it is characteristic of these types of immature people to blame their partners for their own flaws. My ex did that too. On the day we broke-up she blamed me, when in fact the one at fault was staring her in the mirror.

Immature people never accept their faults. It's much easier to cast blame on others than really examine yourself.

You're already hurt, time to climb out of the hole rather than dig it deeper. Good luck.

Thanks to you both,

Thanks, you have certainly hit the nail on the head the girl. It just seemed like they sat there and smirked in my face though. I felt so little.
I have been questioning my sight all day, but can back myself by remembering what else happened before and after. I have never had a problem with remembering things even if I am drunk.

He was looking sideways when he was swearing that it wasn't true.

He just sent me a text message saying that if I need to go home then go, but remember he loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me! It's killing me! He could be acting like you and wildcat21 say to try and save things.?

Of course he is acting.

"He was looking sideways when he was swearing that it wasn't true." He didn't look you in the eye?? Bingo!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildcat21

Of course he is acting.

"He was looking sideways when he was swearing that it wasn't true." He didn't look you in the eye????????? Bingo!

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He looked me in the eye at some stages, but kept looking sideways when he was gesturing sideways. He looked me in the eye this morning when he was asking me to stop crying.

This is really difficult

As Wildcat said "BINGO" he can't look you in the eye. Trait of a liar! :mad: He is trying to keep you hanging by a thread. He wants his cake and eat it too. He knows you have always been there even through his infidelities. He wants you to be there when he has nothing better to do or go to.

You need to quit questioning yourself. You saw what you saw. Get strong. Quit letting him walk on you. Quit letting him influence you. Need I go on... or better yet... need we all go on...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIM

As Wildcat said "BINGO" he can't look you in the eye. Trait of a liar! :mad: He is trying to keep you hanging by a thread. He wants his cake and eat it too. He knows you have always been there even through his infidelities. He wants you to be there when he has nothing better to do or go to.

You need to quit questioning yourself. You saw what you saw. Get strong. Quit letting him walk on you. Quit letting him influence you. Need I go on.....or better yet....need we all go on....

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No, you or anyone else doesn't have to go on, I'm sorry if I am annoying you!
Thanks for your words, but its so hard to just get strong!

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Originally Posted by Aussie

No, you or anyone else doesn't have to go on, I'm sorry if I am annoying you!
Thanks for your words, but its so hard to just get strong!

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No you are not annoying anyone, we just hate to see someone getting hurt. ;) I have been in your shoes, and you need to get strong and it is VERY hard! I am divorced from a hibitual liar, and once you break from them, and heal, you can't even believe you delt with it as long as you did. You will be much more happy and content with you life once you make the break.

If you go home for a while, you WILL cry, hurt, hate, feel empty, feel hopeless and helpless, you will want to go back and make it all better and put up with his lies, but you WILL be back to square one in the future. Then you will be going through all of these feeling again. Why not start now, get though all of the grieving, and be done with it. As hard as it may sound and as hard as it WILL be. It will be hard, but will be worth it in the long run.

You love him, there is not doubt about that, but you deserve better and WILL get better if you want it.

Take Care ;)

It's hard to decide if some one is lying or not. I just see a lot of red flags.

You're not annoying us - we come here to learn and help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIM

No you are not annoying anyone, we just hate to see someone getting hurt. ;) I have been in your shoes, and you need to get strong and it is VERY hard!! I am divorced from a hibitual liar, and once you break from them, and heal, you can't even believe you delt with it as long as you did. You will be much more happy and content with you life once you make the break.

If you go home for a while, you WILL cry, hurt, hate, feel empty, feel hopeless and helpless, you will want to go back and make it all better and put up with his lies, but you WILL be back to square one in the future. Then you will be going through all of these feeling again. Why not start now, get though all of the grieving, and be done with it. As hard as it may sound and as hard as it WILL be. It will be hard, but will be worth it in the long run.

You love him, there is not doubt about that, but you deserve better and WILL get better if you want it.

Take Care ;)

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Oh- thank you very much. Perhaps I misread your message. You are right, but I also have a lot to consider, so I have decided to go home for 3 weeks for now. I can't just walk away that easy, we also have a business together. I know that I saw these things, but he is doing a great job of telling me that he didn't. I also wander what else he has done!

We are supposed to be going away this weekend till next Tuesday. He will be home from work soon and I want to talk about it all tonight again and see what comes out if it.Nothing is going to change my mind though.

How did you find your strength?

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Originally Posted by Aussie

How did you find your strength?

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That is a very good question? :rolleyes: I feel my strength came through my 3-month old son (at the time), prayer, and my mom. I am a spiritual person, but could be A LOT more!! I just asked for strength. My son, I suppose, got me through most of it. I would look at and hold him, and think that I didn't want him to be brought up in a household of lies & secrets. I couldn't believe a word my ex said. He lied about lies. That is no way to live.

I went home (like you) and stayed for 3 weeks (like you) waiting to see if my ex was going to want me back. He never called. I called him and waited... He didn't even ask to see his son. So I figured that if we don't mean anymore that this to him, I needed to go.

I left a job of 13 years, a new house we had just built, and a life that I had known for so long. I moved to the town my mom lived in, rented an apartment, went and got my things, found a job at $6.00 less an hour that what I was making, and survived just fine.

My son had an illness at the time, (that he has grown out of now) but his formula cost 1150.00 monthly. So not only was I going through a divorce and raising a 3-month old, and trying to get help with the formula, but trying to stay sain.

Your strength comes from within... I feel a person has to reach a point (bottom-for a lack of a better word) that they just can't take it any more and want more in their life.

Maybe you are there, maybe you're not. It's up to you. If you are not at that point yet, you will go back until you cannot take it another day. And either he will change and you will want to stay or you will finally decide to leave for good.

You will find your strength someday-whether it be through prayer, family, friends, or YOU.

I hope you find it soon - for YOUR happiness and innerpeace. :o

GREAT POST BIM!! Love it!! So true!! Lifes battles!!

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Originally Posted by Wildcat21

GREAT POST BIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love it!!!! So true!!! Lifes battles!!!!

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Thank You! Comes from the heart. Nine years ago--seems like yesterday. But still sort of cleansing to talk about -- lets other people know they're not alone out there. :o

Dotn let his lies manipulate you anymore. What you saw happened. Don't look for excuses to make him right. Don't second guess yourself.
He is a liar. That's all there is to it. He is worried that he has lost you. He knows he is guilty. If he wasn't guilty he wouldn't be so worried.
He will try and manipulate you and lie some more to get you back to him. Take your time. Walk away. Stay away. Don't let him push you and force you to do anything. You are doing the right thing!

Ok, we talked all night and he even looked me in the eye and swore that it wasn't true. He said that he can't understand why I don't trust him and that perhaps I am misconstruing situations. So we talked about things all night and he has agreed to take a lie detector test! That in itself should prove that he is not lying simply because he is willing to do that, but he said if that is what it takes! I know its extreme, but I need to prove that either he is lying or I have mental illness that is clouding my vision!

This is what it has come to! But I love him, so I need to do this, otherwise I amy walk away and leave behind a guy that I really did love but couldn't trust due to me!

A doctor would be better at diagnosing mental illness or ant other disorder.

Yes, but I need to find out if he is telling me the truth first. Then I can accept that I have misconstrude things (as I saw them with my own eye's) and that perhaps I need help, but I have been fine, so this is finding out everything.

Then what? If he's lying what will you do? And if he's telling the truth and this IS all in your head, what do you think he will do?? At some point you must take responsibility for yourself and your own well being. You need a plan of action that doesn't include anyone but you. Since your mind is made up Good LUCK

That is a little extreme. You should know in your heart if he was lying.

I thought one time a gal was lying to me - hidding things - I was right.

A lie detector test? At some point you may want to consider whether anyone should have to do that too preserve a relationship. I've never heard of such a thing, but who knows.

I don't know. In my opinion, a relationship should have some fluidity, GO WITH THE FLOW. I used to tell my ex that all the time. GO WITH THE FLOW. Stop overanalyzing, overthinking. In the end, she did not GO WITH THE FLOW. She was always provoking, doing things that finally set me off.

Don't try and fit a square peg, into a round hole. All relationships have challenges, but they should not be epic in a negative manner.

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Originally Posted by Wildcat21

That is a littel extreme. You should know in your heart if he was lying.

I thought one time a gal was lying to me - hidding things - I was right.

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How did you find out? I am only doing this for the following reasons:-
-To ensure I am right in what I saw, so I can comfortably walk away and get on with my life or sort things out so we can get on with our life together!
-If I am misconstruing situations, then I need this to prove to me that I do perhaps need help after all these years I have thought that I am just fine! That my past is effecting my present and perhaps will my future.
-To prove that I can trust him, as he would love me to! Once again it's the past thing.

I know in my heart, but everything he says and does hurts me in the way "can I live without you"? And sends me thinking that I could be wrong! When he looks deep in my eye's and says "God I love you"! When he holds me all night and wakes me in the morning with a huge kiss and cuddle before he goes to work! When he rings me throughout the day just to say hello! When he comes in the door and says "hello, I'm here"! I think, God what if I am right and I get upset at the prospect of missing him so much!

I have thought about every single possible senario in my mind and what I'll do about each one!

He said the one thing he is scared of is me leaving him! This absolutely kills me!

A person who lies is great at saying whatever needs to be said to get what they want.

This thread has turned from you being concerned with his behaviour to you finding yourself guilty due to issues from your past and diverting the blame for his behaviour onto yourself. Not good. You are now making excuses for him at your own expense.

This is the pattern of many abusive relationships.

I think it very important that you learn to trust yourself and your own instincts. What are you going to do carry a lie detector around with you? Come on get real with yourself and see a professional if you must and get out of this unhealthy relationship and strt watching out for you. He sure hasn't has he.

Yes, somehow I have turned it around and am blaming and making up excuses! I just can't see the wood through the trees at the mo. I know I need to trust myself, but I am quite an indecisive person at the best of times and need reassurance! I just can't trust my instincts for some reason! I need to make sure that what I saw... I saw! God... I wish I could believe myself.

I need to start watching out for me, but I need to find the strength first... I need to take steps with all this. I know the situation I have landed myself. It's very weird... but I can only take one step at a time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kp2171

a person who lies is great at saying whatever needs to be said to get what they want.

this thread has turned from you being concerned with his behaviour to you finding yourself guilty due to issues from your past and diverting the blame for his behaviour onto yourself. not good. you are now making excuses for him at your own expense.

this is the pattern of many abusive relationships.

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Yes, I hadn't realised until you pointed it out, I guess I just wish it wasn't!

YES! You must absolutely do this - sounds like this guy manipulates you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

What are you gonna do carry a lie detector around with you? Come on get real with yourself

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Exactly--lie detector? Cannot imagine going to that length rather than trust what was in front of you.

You sound like you are in a similar position to me. I have recently separated from a good liar and cheater and am still in terrible pain. He also raised taking a lie detector test which surprised me because I had never heard of anyone actually doing that before. He even called up and booked the test. I told him not to be so ridiculous but he was determined to go ahead with it. Needless to say, he cancelled it the day before it was scheduled... he was very good at playing with my head and still is. I am taking steps to let go of the relationship but it is very hard as I still love him so much. I spoke to the agency with whom he had booked the test and the tester told me that it was very common for men who are expert manipulators and liars to do such a thing and then cancel the test. It would be interesting to know if your partner does the same. I hope you are okay. I know how painful it is.

Sometimes when we are in a relationship - we don't want to believe the bad - the huge red flags. We're more interested in being in a relationship than the reality of that PERSON! Sure they may have some good - but the bad can be really bad.

Yes - if comes down to a lie ditector - probably should think about just moving on!

Question... does he take any medication... has he talked about suicide... does he get angry a lot... and over little things..

kp2171 is right "on the money". In a similar situation I saw a very bright guy is a master at saying things that a woman wants to hear. I wanted to believe for so long (and still do) that he meant it. He was also a master at making it seem like my paranoia was unfounded. In the end I did some "nutty" things as a result and he then put a guilt trip on me for doing things to violate his trust. Although what I did was wrong it completely took the focus off him and his deceit.

I have taken a LONG time to trust my own instincts but I'm finally getting there. You need to trust your own instincts. Your instincts need to come before your needs sometimes- often, if you are needy (which you may be as a result of your background) and drawn to abuse, you will twist your instincts and the truth so you can paint the picture of him that you need to. I did that for the last year - and my breakup was only 2 months ago - believe me, I know. It's very hard but the time off may help you see more clearly.

I don't think you should have to make him take a lie detector. Trust your own judgement.
It is fairly plain to see he is lying from what you have told us here.
He manipulates you and you doubel guess yoursefl all the time. That isn't healthy.
Whether he cheats or not it doesn't appear to me that he treats you well.
Just my opinion. Plus you can't TRUST him. And in my mind you are right. Just wish you could see it as well!