Okay, the life of an IT person is very dull, so when the network and the planets align correctly, it is incredibly dull. Which lead to a nice little debate with a fellow co-worker about a certain topic.

Is it normal to be worried that your partner will find someone else? I'm not saying that they go out of their way to find someone but happens by chance. Let me set up the example for you.

Your partner starts work at a new job, they go into that job completely in-love with you and only wants to be with you. Naturally they are the new person so people want to talk to them. They aren't that sociable of a person but doesn't want to be rude either. It starts innocent enough, simple greetings but then gradually grows into more and then moves up into taking breaks together etc. Phone numbers get exchanged and then texting/calling start which leads to hanging out after work and such. Friendly feelings start to grow into more.

1. The partner has never given you the slightest reason not to trust them and doesn't have a history of cheating.
2. This is how you met your partner, through work but she was not attached to anyone at this point either.

Yes, I know this sounds really thought out but we had a lot of time to think about it.


Question is, is this normal thinking or completely irrational?

Normal thinking IMO, and something that probably happens a lot ("a lot" is pretty relative though).

That's why you have to be SO kick the girl doesn't even want to wander - but that goes without saying. I don't know, I don't really have a thesis to chuck in here, but I would definitely say it's normal thinking.

This debate essentially is about cheating, insecurities and a relationship not doing too well.

A - In general if the relationship at home is fulfilling and all needs are met, it won't get to that because the person starting the new job won't be emotionally available to the co-worker and so the working relationship will never develop into anything more than friendship.

B - If the relationship at home is lacking in some areas and the person starting the new job doesn't feel completely happy with his/her partner, they can develop feelings and an attachement towards someone else regardless of where they are, what new thing is happening in their life. They can hit up a conversation with the clerk at the grocery store or they can develop a flirtatious relationship with the significant other's best friend, has nothing to do with a new job and everything to do with what's going on at home in my opinion.

So in other words, if someone feels it's justified to worry about their significant other's actions at work, then they would feel justified worrying about their significant other's actions as soon as they're out the door...

I think it starts with a healthy person, choosing the right partner, and communicating together, (I know I say that all the time, geez) as I honestly have never had trust issues, because I don't deal with any one I don't trust.

When there is a problem in my house, we both have no problem expressing ourselves, and working on it. So we never worry about the competition, because we both know the boundaries of our own relationship.

If they can't know us both, then they can't know one.

You have to have more than just the appearance of a relationship! It has to go a lot deeper than looking good, and having fun.

The reason I bring it up is because a friend recently asked me how I could trust my fiancé at her new job.

Here's why he asked me, my ex left me for another guy at work(shot to the gut), then I met my fiancé at work. He was just tossing around that he would be worried

As we both know an insecure partner needs no justification whatsoever, to worry about anything.

Yep, my mentality, if she wants to leave the door is always open but my door isn't a revolving door. One thing I learned through therapy, if someone wants to stray, they are going to regardless of what you do.

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Originally Posted by Romefalls19

Yep, my mentality, if she wants to leave the door is always open but my door isn't a revolving door. One thing I learned through therapy, if someone wants to stray, they are going to regardless of what you do.

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I don't agree. The actions of the partner can make straying more or less likely. I'm not saying it's all the partner's fault at all, but if someone is treating their girlfriend or boyfriend badly or not making any effort to make them feel loved or needed, that's going to increase the likelihood that they'll make friends with someone who makes them feel better, which can lead to straying. Likewise, if the relationship is solid and both people feel happy with one another and make a point of expressing that regularly, I would say straying is unlikely, new job or no, new grocery store or no. :)

I'm not saying what can cause straying, I'm saying that nothing you can do can prevent it.

If a boyfriend or girlfriend is treating you unkind, then take the appropriate steps. Finding comfort in someone else's arms is demeaning and puts at a lower level than the person who mistreated you.

Sure actions can dictate how likely it is for someone to stray but that's taking the easy way out. Communication first, then walk if it doesn't get better.

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Originally Posted by Romefalls19

Okay, the life of an IT person is very dull, so when the network and the planets align correctly, it is incredibly dull.

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IT dull, Burn the HERETIC!!

Depends if you have to change a password for the 20th time or explain to the same person for the 20th time how to do something!

Anyway back to the topic, if your partner is to stray, she/he wasn't worth it in the first place really, cannot be trusted and your better off without them. Although painful, better in the long run!

Ha ha! I have actually had to change the mail clerk's password 15 times because they forget it, the darn password was "Password1" Seriously, how do you mess that up.

"You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if you do not trust enough."

I recently said this in another post, worth repeating here.

To make your relationship as cheat-proof as possible, it's necessary that you treat your relationship as if YOU'RE job is to be "the one", not hers. Once you take on the 'GIVE' mentality and ramp up the 'cherish-mode', you've done all you can.

Now, if you're BOTH doing that... oh my.

I got to spread the rep but JB you have it perfect! The quicker you learn the give, the quicker you see the relationship blossom. The easiest thing to do in a relationship is to ask "what can you do for me" the best thing to do is "what can I do for you"

Hold on there... Not too fast on that one bud. Understand that it is a 2 way street. Put someone up on a pedestal and you are no longer interesting and a challenge. Must remain interesting and giving but must be mutual. Do all the giving and where do you wind up?

I also heard it somewhere, can't remember. But I think it was Dr. Phil... Yeah funny huh but he said cheating doesn't start with a kiss. It starts with lunch... Now that I can attest to.

However trust in yourself and afford the same to your partner, but if you feel that there is lack of communication, best you open up the forum at home before you open up elsewhere.

Whoa... I wasn't bringing this debate on here for attacking relationships. If you read through my posts, I say that communication is the biggest thing a relationship needs to survive next is trust.

I do understand that it is a 2 way street, but you can't get caught up in thinking "is this person going to meet me halfway on making an effort" because if you're stuck asking yourself that question, you're with the wrong person. If you're with the right person, you already know that your love, respect, honesty and trust will be reciprocated from your partner.

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Originally Posted by pbc12

Hold on there...Not too fast on that one bud. Understand that it is a 2 way street. Put someone up on a pedestal and you are no longer interesting and a challenge. Must remain interesting and giving but must be mutual. Do all the giving and where do you wind up?

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I think cherishing someone is not the same as putting them on a pedestal.Healthy people love to feel loved. You can't ruin a relationship by being too loving. Me, I don't want challenges or "interest" that come from the other person pulling away just to make me chase them. I think interest comes from what you talk about and do together, not playing games where you withhold affection or respect. Mystery I can live without. :)

Romefalls19, I think that this is normal thinking as I have gone through this and its horrible. SO of 5 years, (I'm 23 she's 22) no history of cheating, starts a new job where there is a lot of downtime and starts casually talking to a co-worker. I didn't think anything of it at first until there were text's involved and then the end of our relationship that was otherwise great! I think that my SO was unhappy with herself, because that is what she told me, and he was just a "friend" and after the breakup they were and still are as far as I know, hanging out together. It really makes me sick to watch someone you thought you knew so well, change and move on and look so happy.. I read your post and thought that it was "spot on" what I went through so I had to comment.

Ha ha... Far too many times I have read on forums about how co-workers are simply just friends, but hey who knows these days right?

Hey RF,

Congrats on your engagement. If she is the one I wouldn't give it a second thought.

If she is still in the proving grounds, you can ponder below:

I have seen in all sorts of co-worker over the line situations and here's some thoughts:

1. Women can have guy friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Women should not usually make plans with men for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually girlfriends or spouse/boyfriend are for the rest.
3. The fact that you do not want YOUR personal history to repeat (meet at work) is a normal reaction. But hey, you had to meet somewhere. So, if she didn't cheat to start I see nothing there to sweat.
4. IT people are like any people... work some. Play some. Kill time some. There will be co-workers and such but as long as she is crazy about you, they are just wallpaper.

Did I miss something else? Any doubts?

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Originally Posted by Ash123

1. Women can have guy friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Women should not usually make plans with men for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually girlfriends or spouse/boyfriend are for the rest.

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Hey, Ash,
Would you say the same in reverse?
In other words, would you agree with this?

1. Men can have gal friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Men should not usually make plans with women for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually male friends or spouse/girlfriend are for the rest.

I'm curious, because I've had partners who very much felt it was fine for men to spend alone time with other women colleagues or "friends." But they would not have thought if fine for me to go out alone with a man. They would say, "That's different." Do you think it's different too?

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Originally Posted by Ash123

Hey RF,

Congrats on your engagement. If she is the one I wouldn't give it a second thought.

If she is still in the proving grounds, you can ponder below:

I have seen in all sorts of co-worker over the line situations and here's some thoughts:

1. Women can have guy friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Women should not usually make plans with men for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually girlfriends or spouse/boyfriend are for the rest.
3. The fact that you do not want YOUR personal history to repeat (meet at work) is a normal reaction. But hey, you had to meet somewhere. So, if she didn't cheat to start I see nothing there to sweat.
4. IT people are like any people....work some. play some. kill time some. there will be co-workers and such but as long as she is crazy about you, they are just wallpaper.

Did I miss something else? Any doubts?

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I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. "Women can have guy friends at work. But not so much after work"? "Women should not usually make plans with men for anything but group activities"? What? Why not? I have tons of guy friends, and I mean more guy friends than girl friends. If my husband asked me to obide by the above rules, I would be miserable. Are you saying that none of us can exercise enough self-control to be left alone with the opposite sex? I may be interpreting this wrong and if I am I apologize but your post seems to be something out of the 1950's... I would love if you elaborate more on this.

Ok, I have generated a bit of excitement and that is good.

Let me expound just a bit :-)

The He or she is not a big difference, but I do think the choices can be red flags.

I have seen a fair bit of broken marriages. And office romances. And one thing they tend to have in common: woman who have developed guy friends as a slow surrogate for what's missing at home.

Now, that said, IF the woman (i.e. happily married) is going out after work with guys to chat, laugh etc before going home, super. What I am getting at is if there is weakness in a bond, I think the man/woman friendship is a canary in the coal mine.

It is NOT because the woman cannot control herself :-) It is because it is often a sign of something elsewhere. Call me crazy but a woman's confidante is best when it's her husband. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen people that are "just friends" that develops. Why? The woman is seeking a bond elsewhere.

Of course, a happily married couple can navigate this easily. They trust each other and she is just having fun. Or he is just having a laugh.

But I still contend that if you want to reach your wife about a question with the kids, and she can't because she is at a bar with Frank, that is not ideal.

Since you didn't answer my question,should I assume you would NOT apply these rules to men?

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Originally Posted by asking

Hey, Ash,
Would you say the same in reverse?
In other words, would you agree with this?

1. Men can have gal friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Men should not usually make plans with women for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually male friends or spouse/girlfriend are for the rest.

I'm curious, because I've had partners who very much felt it was fine for men to spend alone time with other women colleagues or "friends." But they would not have thought if fine for me to go out alone with a man. They would say, "That's different." Do you think it's different too?

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See above answer as well.

1./2. I think it is the same. It goes both ways-but every case is different.

If a double standard exists, and I am thinking about your situation, it may be because:
- (I am generalizing now) he may feel women often confide in other women. And when they confide in a man it may be preceived as more of a statement.

For the record: I am in a longterm relationship and my GF and I have gone out with the opposite sex after work - generally in groups.

Basic communication and respect are in the end are key and sort out all this. And different strokes for different folks.

Any good devoted relationship would not lose much sleep with any of this.

Ok... I agree.

But, again this goes back to how things are at home. If a friendship with someone from the opposite sex develops because of something lacking at home, the problem isn't the actual friendship, the problem is the relationship with the significant other.

And I'm sure you would agree if I was to say that if someone feels they have needs that are not being met and this leads them to cheating, they can cheat with or without a friendship with someone from the opposite sex. Hell, the person can have a one night stand with a complete stranger. Again, the problem is not so much related to a friendship.

That said, I do agree that in many cases those types of friendships develop into an emotional bond as a result of problems with the current relationship. This happens a lot. But if someone just happens to have more things in common with people from the opposite sex, whether a friendship can take place shouldn't be an issue if there is no reason to doubt your partner.

And if whoever is trying to reach their wife about a question regarding the kids, you're right that it's not ideal but not because she is at the bar with Frank rather than Nancy...

Dragonfly,
I think you would agree that you are attracted to other men sometimes.
After 8 years the old mind might wander innocently here and there.
Still, I realize you have a lot of guy friends and that is who you are...
And you are happily married.

But if you were unhappy and vulnerable, the game would be different.

Which leads me here:

Having a member of the same sex as a confidante when life stresses occur, has some practical advantages to it. Leaning on the wrong opposite sex shoulder too many times... well, all I can say is I've seen it... not to me personally, but it has been a part of 3-4 divorces at last count. It is certainly provocative and worth debate, but I am just telling you what I've seen.

Bottom line: a good relationship is full of communication and respect and you could go to Egypt with another guy if your relationship was built for it.

Isn't something like boundaries, and rules of conduct, something you talk about before a commitment?? Yeah, okay my age is showing, but that's the kind of thing to discuss before even moving in with someone, isn't it?

Geez, what do you young folks talk about after you get serious??

I agree.

I have seen so many relationships go south when either man or woman thinks boundaries are superfluous to happiness.

Relationships need a little compromise and yes, a little sacrifice to work.

Tal is right, boundaries are definitely some things you set before you commit. I sure hope no one is getting the impression that this is my problem, the whole trust issue. My friend seems like he has the trust issue because he was pointing out reasons he shouldn't trust his girlfriend at her job and then we were discussing my fiance's new job and he was asking how I could trust her.

Ash, first let me thank you on your congratulations! I agree with your points about friends at work and hanging out outside of work with groups. I do have female friends at work and sometimes go out to the bar on a Friday after work, but it's always in groups and my fiancé even talks to the one girl who I am better friends with.

The whole debate really comes down to trusting your partner. And like I told my friend, my fiancé has given me no reason not to trust her or has she even acted remotely interested in another guy.

Psyched for you man. Happiness is the goal.. To love and be loved is ALL anyone on this forum wants. Sure, life is never 100% simple but glad for your foundation is there and that u both have trust and respect. And If you run into any headaches the AMHD door is always open. Peace A

Yep, this forum has given me so many tools to use in my relationship! And I know if I ever need a swift kick in the arse several people on here will be happy to oblige with that ha ha

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Originally Posted by Ash123

1./2. I think it is the same.

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Okay. :)

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Originally Posted by Ash123

If a double standard exists, and I am thinking about your situation, it may be because:
- (I am generalizing now) he may feel women often confide in other women. And when they confide in a man it may be preceived as more of a statement.

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Right. I think I've heard this argument in some form.

So I think men should learn to be better friends to one another.

Or else, more women should have the kinds of freedoms Dragonfly has. I just met someone else like her. Her husband says to me that all her friends are men and she doesn't really like women. (I wasn't sure how to react to that, like--don't even bother trying to be friends with her? :))

I have some men friends, but I always feel like they are a Problem when I am in a Relationship. My ex husband was wildly jealous from the very beginning and would become anxious if I even talked to a man at a party. He would actually come up and find an excuse to stop the conversation. I didn't realize this was happening for a long time, until my neighbor's husband said, "X never lets me talk to you." And it hit me that X didn't let me talk to ANY men. So maybe I've become sensitized.

Still, my experience is that men generally (not all) tend to view other men with a lot more suspicion, while insisting on their own innocent relationships with women. I guess I've become cynical. Also, I'm older so I'm talking about my generation mainly.

It may be that younger men and women have more friends of both sexes. My impression from reading this list is that this is both wonderful and dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Ash123

For the record: I am in a longterm relationship and my GF and I have gone out with the opposite sex after work - generally in groups.

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You say "generally." So, when you went out with members of the opposite sex after work not in groups (just you and one woman), was that you only or has your GF also done the same?

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Originally Posted by Ash123

Any good devoted relationship would not lose much sleep with any of this.

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Agreed. The couple I know who seem happiest, the wife has lots of male friends and the husband seems fine with that. I don't think he goes out by himself with women though. And her male friends live far away and mostly they email or talk on the phone. I know her well and I would trust her completely, so not surprised he does. But again, it appears to me to be one-sided. I never hear about him having women friends particularly. He seems very devoted and involved with his work, his family, and her family and friends.

I hear you.

I think your ex was not respectful and had a double standard - from what little I recall... Ugh.

We could debate this all day, but I do think that there are boundaries that are unspoken and any side that abuses it is asking for trouble.