Hi,

I am new to this forum and appreciate any input on a situation in my relationship with my fiancée. To start, I am from the USA and she lives in Europe. I met her in the summer on a tour to her country. We Yahoo chat often and exchanged many pictures. We were both clear that we are not players nor looking to becoming involved with players. In November I visited her in Moscow as she attended advanced training in cosmetology techniques. She is also a doctor of dermatology. She also introduced me to her parents, she lives with them, and we enjoyed a great dinner. We became serious. We discussed long term plans on chat in December. I returned to see her and we decided to become engaged. We have been open with each other and discuss many topics. One issue still is questionable. During my last visit she was constantly late to our dates, by hours one time. On that day she met me and was very warm. However as we left my flat for dinner she received a text message on her phone from a male coworker at the hospital. The text message said "When will I see the pretty woman again?" She showed me the message and explained to me she is training him and he is philosophical as well as married and from another country. His family was not with him. She said he is leaving in 3 days. I said I don't think his messages are appropriate and maybe he should be giving his wife this attention. My fiancée replies that he has done no harm to her and she will not offend him. She replies promptly to his text out of site to me. Two days later we left on a train tour and the guy continued to text her. I commented and she laughed that I am still worrying of this. 5 days later he is still texting and I only see a message that is not work related at all. I ask why he continues to text even though he has returned home. She replies to the guy that she is with her boyfriend. As far as I know the texting stops.

Ok, I know I am in a long distance situation and need to be somewhat open. She is very attractive and intelligent. I talked to her about this again and she said she needed to help him in her absence from the hospital. So am I overly concerned or too stupid to realize she is a player?

Dear simpleguy - welcome to the forum.

Your red flag is justified.
From my own experience in the family - one of my brothers was in a relationship like that for three years, until she finally said yes to marriage, once with him she changed completely - and now she asked for a divorce.
He wanted children and she did not but did not tell him so. She also claimed to be in the hotel business and a travel guide - even though her speech qualities in other languages was not that good.
He is an aircraft mechanic, therefore makes a lot of money and she got a lawyer to argue for support - one third of his monthly check - even though we all know she is living with someone else who is financially well off - so this lady obviously wanted everything on a silver plate without lifting a finger for it.
So, our experience with this type of woman has been negative.

You have to be aware that the mentality of the women brought up in that part of the world is very different from the U.S. or even western Europe.

I'm not putting them down, it's just a way they were taught to survive and earn money any way they can. Also, they don't take monogamous relationships serious and always are on the lookout for something better.
This has been ingrained on them from a very young age.

As far as her medical background is concerned, unless she is so good in English and can take an accreditation test to be able to practice as a Dermatologist in the States, she will have no luck there no matter what her experience or how many documents she has - as it has been proved that they can be falsified.

These poor women are taught to promise a man everything just to get out of their country to get a better life, some really mean it, and some do not. This is just a fact that you must be aware of and weigh very carefully.

My advice is to be careful and don't rush into things until you see that she is positively making an effort to become independent, then if she still wants you, you will be better off. So, in short - keep the engagement as long as you can, until her visa for the States almost runs out and see if she panics. If this is the case, you can suggest that she go back to her country and return on another visitor's visa and watch her reaction.

I'm not trying to paint your world black, just cautioning you because I live in Germany and have seen and experienced a lot with young men and women from that part of the country to know that not all is rosy.

Whatever your choice, I wish you all the best, and please keep us posted.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gifLook before you leap! Take it slow and careful.

Hi,
I tried giving the answer before mine an "approval" comment, but got the pop-up saying "spread it around some more". Very good answer.
I would just like to add, that at 64 yrs old, married 29 years, I have experienced much with both my family and my wife's; in regards to long-distance relationships.
Sometimes they work out, other times not. Being separated can be very disgruntling at times. I know you are concerned with the other man, but there really is nothing that you can do. If she wants to communicate with others, then that is her choice, and there may be absolutely nothing wrong going on.
The bad part is that you can't just walk next door and ask her! This is the disadvantage of a long-distance relationship. It is built on trust. If that trust does fail, then there are problems.
The best you can do is hope nothing is happening, trust her, and in time, it will prove itself out one way or another.
I do wish you the best, and good luck.

Chery,

Thanks for your introspect on my situation. I realize many of the women are motivated to leave for a better country and I read of both good and bad results. Many of the bad results seem to be high expectations by the man and rushing into things. Of course there are no promises or any way to predict other then actually marrying and testing.
So far she shows no indications of the GCG (green card girl):
Immediately requesting money.
Trips to the shops to buy her expensive items.
Immediately discussing marriage and moving to the USA.

Sorry for your brother's situation as I have experienced similar from my American ex. However my ex works full time and I don't sacrifice so much of my salary. But my ex pulled many nasty dishonest deeds. My advice to him is to live his life and get back on track. Its only money and you can't take it with you. He can have more kids too. Also sounds like he was cautious and waited 3 years to marry.
We have discussed the med degree and my fiancée refuses to discuss taking a loan. So a two year nursing degree is what are considering on when she moves here. By independence you mean that she moves from her parents flat? As far as the visa, currently I apply for a fiancée visa for her. You mean to allow her to stay the 90 days in the USA and return her home without marriage? Or just delay the start of her arrival to the USA? Currently the feminists in the US are limiting fiancée visas to one every 2 years.
I agree she is dependent on her parents at 27 and may have some growing up to do. But many marry after living with their parents and I don't see this as a particularly red flag. But of course she complains of her oppressive parents.
One current issue is she recently decided to see more of her friends and wishes to Yahoo IM me less, not every day. I must say I was concerned with her computer time as she spent long hours at her computer at various forums. Especially after she left her job at the hospital and now only work about 25 hours per week. However it seems it would not so difficult for her to IM me with all her free time.

Ok Fred, that is my current tack. But as Chery said these women can be 2 faced for their goals. My fiancé seems a little blatant if she is cheating. Also quite an insult as I travel a great distance only to sit and wait while she entertains this guy, if so. I will say she had many personal items to attend to as it was prior to a holiday. So this would explain her lateness. She assures me she has many offers for a private flat from rich married guys in her country and is insulted by their offers. Also, I notice that many of the stories on GCG's are the girls living in their own flats and beyond their means, one of the red flags.

I would be curious as to why she was JUST finally telling this guy that she was with (or even had, for all we know) a boyfriend... actually, a fiancé, no less. It would appear that this fellow didn't even know about you until you made a fuss about it. If he is making advances, or even inappropriate comments, she needs to show him her bounderies... if she has any. If she acts this way for the little time that you ARE there... how far is she letting other men go when you are not?

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

I would be curious as to why she was JUST finally telling this guy that she was with (or even had, for all we know) a boyfriend... actually, a fiance, no less. It would appear that this fellow didnt even know about you until you made a fuss about it. If he is making advances, or even inappropriate comments, she needs to show him her bounderies... if she has any. If she acts this way for the little time that you ARE there... how far is she letting other men go when you are not?

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Well jizzle some of my sentiments too, thanks for the sanity check. Not only, he's married. What does this say of her attitude towards marriage? But again Chery provides her introspect on my fiancées possible mentality. Even if her flirting is only normal fun for her, American men will eat her up if she leads them on.

Exactly - the flirtatious nature is a part of it.

Also, her curtailing her time on the net with you might be a ploy to 'play hard to get' now, as she might think it's the only way to get you to hurry the process up.

I don't know how long a fiancée visa is for, but if it is at least 90 days, then OK, use it. She will show her emotions by then and you can observe how she acts outside of her usual environment.

Give her a chance to have a 'taste' of your world and you will either get pleasantly surprised and be happy, or experience a negative reaction. No matter which, at least you will know exactly where you stand and will no longer have to be in doubt.

Good luck to you dear, I hope there is a Happy End in this.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif

I think she may be a player. Give her an ultimatum ; either the texting with this other guy stops immediately or the engagement is off. Lay down the law. Part of it may be due to cultural differences as Europeans often tend to be more open and affectionate than Americans and not as concerned about punctuality. However, you are who you are and I think you're right to be concerned which is why I'm advising you to keep everything strictly on your terms. Any behavior, whether cultural or not, that you're not comfortable with must stop and she needs to know that in no uncertain terms. If she's not willing to acquiesce to that then that may be a red flag that the two of you really aren't right for each other.

Cianci, I guess she acquiesced by telling the guy she has a boyfriend. Beyond that, I can't tell since I am here in the USA now. Also she plans to move here not the reverse, so I expect at least some show of understanding for American expectations. I guess everyone is telling me to sit tight and this is not a deal breaker.

Sounds like a player playing you. Trust your gut instinct.

"These poor women are taught to promise a man everything just to get out of their country to get a better life, some really mean it, and some do not." - SO TRUE!! I have a feeling she is using this guy.

Have you had sex?

All that stuff that happened would have been a deal breaker for me a long time ago. As Fred said long distance relationships are based on trust - I don't trust this gal as far as I could throw her!

Must say, other than this, she treats me well.

Wildcat,

The intimacy is wonderful. I was married for 5 yrs and never had it better than with my fiancée. She knows herself as a woman and appreciates her femininity so appreciates me as well. Unlike many modern American women, she does not perceive me as the enemy and understands her own womanhood. This extends well beyond sex.

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Originally Posted by simpleguy

Wildcat,

The intimacy is wonderful. I was married for 5 yrs and never had it better. She knows herself as a woman and appreciates her femininity so appreciates me as well. Unlike many modern American women, she does not perceive me as the enemy and understands her own womanhood. This extends well beyond sex.

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I have a pilot friend who was stationed in Korea for a while, and he was treated like a king there too - this just enforces that the cutural teachings of women can be different and once they get a taste of 'freedom' some change for the worst - but not in all cases. So, just do what your gut says and hope for the best. That's all we can do to achieve a little happiness - so don't deny yourself, just be careful and aware of all scenarios.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gifAfter all, when a woman falls for a man, she has certain expectations of him also, and some get lucky and some not (I married a spouse abuser and didn't know it until too late) - it's not a stereotype thing, just a luck of the draw (as one would say). We are all the makers and breakers of our own destiny. Again, good luck to you.

Simpleguy - sounds like you have this under control aS much as you can. The thingS you're feeling are because of the long-distance and un-sure situation/new situation. COMMUNICATION IS KEY.

Unfortunately most LD relationships survive when you are open and can date others UNTIL you can be together exclusively. It's all about communication.

I've tried TWO LD serious relationships and they just don't work. You need toget her here as soon as possible and see how you do BEFORE you marry. Don't have that marriage set in concrete. Spend some quality timetogether and see.

LD relaitonships suck and I don't wish them on anyone - ALTHOUGH, WHEN YOU ARE TOGETHER THERE IS NOTHING BETTER.

Wildcat- actually I copy and paste to her my version and responses yesterday. She agrees with my version and tells me that she told the "poor guy" she has a fiancé and suggested we meet. The guy refused as he "doesn't like Americans." She thought we had already cleared this up. I reminded her that I have always discussed any of her issues silly or serious to me. So opening the communication. Also were engaged, so no interest on my part to keep dating and she has expressed none either. I think our view point on her visa is the same. Our intent is to marry and we approach with an open mind. I offer her a round trip ticket, cash for own security, and more cash if she wishes to return home. I don't want a her staying and marrying me for defacto reasons.

Chery,

As a divorcée also, I agree on your perspective. I went single into my 30's before marrying for the first time. Even though the divorce was hell, I realize this was too long to wait and life is too short to allow your fears to dictate your decisions. We have spent some rather interesting times in unusual places (for me at least) and enjoy our experiences together. She is genuine and possessing no major issues. This is the risk in marriage, not knowing until you're married. Sorry for your experience with the abuser my ex was somewhat the abuser too.

That's part of relationships... there's always another guy trying to get to your gal. It's how you handle it is all that matters. If you act jealous, needy, and insecure - you will lose.

It sounds like you are trying to get on the same page as her.

I only asked the sex question because I have heard of guys getting con-ed into Russian girls. You actually have a relationship with her.

Until you can spend time and really see for yourself what kind of person this girl is I would be very cautious and take things really slow!:cool:

Wildcat your right on that as many stories exist of women conning men in both Europe and the US. However, women in the FSU show great concern for their own personal safety as many stories of misbehaving western men circulate. Additionally, many of the women are very proper and rather starve than trick a man for money. Also, many western men promising much then never returning. Much emotional investment and risk and concerns from both ends in return for the possible reward of normal family and happy marriage.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Until you can spend time and really see for yourself what kind of person this girl is I would be very cautious and take things really slow!:cool:

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Things are going very slow as we wait on news of the visa. Sent almost 2 weeks a go to the center. We met on 3 occasions already. Plan another to Bali. The fiancée visa lasts 90 days, before 90 days we marry or she returns to Ukraine. She agrees that we both wish to be sure of our happiness and compatibility. So far no issues other than described and we have opened our communication on the issue and resolved. All input much appreciated:) .

In my experience its not the fun times that define a relationship but how you both handle the trials and tribulations of life and whether you work together or fight like cats and dogs, this is what I mean't by going slow because its not just her good side you'll be dealing with but her bad side too. The same will apply to her also!:cool: ;)

I agree as we have navigated difficult situations and mood altering stress. Both on my part and hers. We have resolved with patience and understanding and working together. Life and relationship is not sitting and waiting for a failure to find u but continuiing and asserting towards your goals and happiness. Relationships must be fun and I think it defines at least a large part of any relationship. The difficult times come and test our willingness to help each other to resolve. But this can be fun too. If the entire relationship is on large maze of unhappy obstacles, why bother? Emotion and passion are essential ingredients in a relationship and should be viewed as one of the rewards.

Anyone who makes short thrift of your serious concerns and continues to inflict the stimuli which generates those serious concerns is not worth marrying. That annoying modus operandi will only intensify after marriage.