Over the last two weeks I have caught my GF in lies...

I have asked her about a coworker that appeared on her myspace... she acted funny and then said she didn't recognize the name or know who I was talking about

The we talked about a big weekend she had a month ago in a different city. She got so drunk with friends the night before that she didn't wake up/couldnt get up until to the next day. (She has told me about her past: she has had blackout sex with strangers a few times, so I think its understandalbe that I get uneasy when she does this out of town.)

So then she slipped up and said a guy was staying with her and her friend that weekend and that her friend who stayed with her that weekend has now broken up with her boyfriend. EVERY conversation we have had about that weekend she never once mentioned a guy or that her friend was shacking up with an ex. To me, this means she's hiding something.

Also, a few months before all of this, she got drunk at a bar with me and my friends and gave her nuber to a guy who was flirting with her. The next day she had no memory of it.. black out drunk yet again.. it was a kick to the balls to say the least.

And now that I have confronted her about her behavior, she tells me that she didn't want to worry me about that weekend out of town, and the guy on her myspace is a coworker she knows and works with...

My question is why lie?

She has an excuse for everything. We've been dating for two years and live together. Also, she seems to care about our relationship, but she makes it very clear she cares just as much about past relationships. To me, an ex is an ex. If it's a longterm BF, I can understand that, but she hold on to guys (calls/emails) that she knew/had sex with for a month or two. She says that she cares that it botherers me, but says she won't do anything about it. *frustrating*

And now the lies. And Im thinking if I stumbled upon these lies, what else should I be concerned about? Im hating myself right now. I feel like such a fool. I know she has feelings for me, but I think we are two different people at this point.

I wish I could find someone who wants, and deserves, my love...

It sounds like she's pretty immature, and at the very least has a drinking problem. The main issue here, is that you do not trust this girl. Plain and simple. And it sounds as if you have good reason not to. Also, it sounds like she is dismissing your concerns, which is a big problem. Does it boost her ego to hold on to guys numbers, and to hold in high regard a past relationship? Sounds a little whack to me... I def think she has some issues. And she got drunk and gave her number to some guy? That sounds very high-schoolish... it doesn't sound to me that she is ready for a committed relationship. I would try talking to her about her drinking. I have a friend who blacks out and gets so drink she doesn't remember anything and gets out of control... you need to have a serious conversation with her about this. If she still doesn't see that there is a problem, maybe it's time for you to re-evaluate this relationship. Sounds like you already are... hope this helps. :) this is just my opinion... good luck, you sound like a nice guy who deserves better.

First of all you sound like a really nice guy that has put up with a lot of crap from this chick. And I will call her this because she is not acting like a women or someone you should be in a relationship with. My view is she isn't taking you very seriously and is having fun whenever she can. I mean your talking to people here from the outside so that's how it comes across.
You know you can have better than this man.


End it man before you find her having black out sex with some random dude or mr co worker.


BLACKOUT sex? I really don't care how drunk you are. You know what's going on. And I can totally understand why that makes you feel upset.

You should really talk to her and let her know how you feel and she needs to do something to change. Because I'm sure if she has a problem with you she will try and change you.

my advice is talk to her. But I really wouldn't recommend being with anyone that can say oh I have blackout sex when I'm drunk. I mean... I don't know that really is just awful to have hanging over you in a relationship.

Keep Xs in the BAG as well is just wrong. So if anything happens with you she will jump back onto mr x or mr new guy this women sounds young and is stroking her ego having all these guys around her.

If I was you man and I found out all this I would have a very seirous talk about this. Say OK its either me or your xs bercause you don't play 2nd best

There are better people for you out there.

This girl has pisst me off and I don't even know her!

good luck

I agree with everyone else. You don't deserve to be treated this way. My biggest concern would be her having "black out sex' and then bringing an STD home to you. If you can't trust her... get out. The world is full of loving and respectful women... WITH MORALS too.
Mike

First this is not a relastionship, well not a healthy one by any means.
So you are OK with her getting so drunk she just sleeps with anyone,

Don't be a fool. Totally forget her. Move on. Even if she's as foxy as can be. Forget her.

She is doing what you have allowed her to do all of this time. She obviously has a drinking problem. The question is "If you know all of this about her, why have you stayed and why are you asking about her telling lies to you?"
Get a grip on your life. Cut her lose and move on.

We hit it off great, and then once we got serious she told me she lost her virginity to rape

And then she refused to stop talking to old f-buddies. I don't think she meets up with them, but she continues covert emails, etc...

I even went as far as to go to a rape therapist myself to encourage her to join me

No dice

And fwiw, she doesn't currently have a drinking problem per se, she rarely drinks now, but when she does she really ties one on.

And she has such as good heart, but some of her thought processes seem a little warped top me. She seems to be religious about keeping everyone on the same level - me, old exes, whoever. No one takes priorty over another.

How is that fair to me? She can't see it

To make matters more complicated, she lives with me and she makes close to zero money. I moved far away from fam and friends to be here with her, and my job is really going great, but if we aren't here together, it seems like a bad move on my part. And I don't know how the whole living situation will pan out...

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Originally Posted by the1unv

I agree with everyone else. You dont deserve to be treated this way. My biggest concern would be her having "black out sex' and then bringing an STD home to you. If you can't trust her......get out. The world is full of loving and respectful women......WITH MORALS too.
Mike

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That was in her past (I hope.. j/k) after her rape when she felt like sht about herself

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Originally Posted by TrueFaith

my advice is talk to her. but i really wouldnt recomend being with anyone that can say oh i have blackout sex when im drunk. i mean.... i dont know that really is just awful to have hanging over you in a realtionship.

Keep Xs in the BAG as well is just wrong. so if anything happens with you she will jump back onto mr x or mr new guy this women sounds young and is stroking her ego having all these guys around her.

If i was you man and i found out all this i would have a very seirous talk about this. say ok its either me or your xs bercause you dont play 2nd best

There are better people for you out there.

This girl has pisst me off and i dont even know her!

good luck

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I have talked my head off about this. Already told her I couldn't justify taking our relationship to the next level if she didn't lose the Xs... she didn't budge

Her excuse was that she didn't want to put undo pressure on me since I was inbetweeen jobs at the time

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Originally Posted by InSearchOfAnswers

we hit it off great, and then once we got serious she told me she lost her virginity to rape

And then she refused to stop talking to old f-buddies. I don't think she meets up with them, but she continues covert emails, etc...

I even went as far as to go to a rape therapist myself to encourage her to join me

No dice



And she has such as good heart, but some of her thought processes seem a little warped top me. She seems to be religious about keeping everyone on the same level - me, old exes, whoever. No one takes priorty over another.

How is that fair to me? She can't see it

To make matters more complicated, she lives with me and she makes close to zero money. I moved far away from fam and friends to be here with her, and my job is really going great, but if we aren't here together, it seems like a bad move on my part. And I don't know how the whole living situation will pan out...

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This is a one sided relationship and I know you love her but I hate to tell you it won't work, because of the simple fact that you are the only one acknowledging the relationship. Don't make excuses for her and fwiw,

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she doesn't currently have a drinking problem per se, she rarely drinks now, but when she does she really ties one on.

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Perhaps she is not really ready for this relationship, and maybe she could be in this relationship for security,.

Honestly, I know you love her but she seems to be causing you more heartache than happiness, your so worried about her happiness and concerned about her wellbeing that you are accepting this behavior.. forgetting what you deserve, Trying to ignore someone else behavior is settling. You may love her but love yourself enough to realize this is an unhealthy relationship and perhaps focus more on yourself... If you accepted this behavior from the beginning its pretty hard to try to convince someone to change... Try changing yourself first its hard, imagine trying to change someone else almost impossible... Perhaps you need to let her go for your own sanity she needs to be alone so she can get her life straight...

First if this girl has "black out" sex with random strangers, I don't understand why she continues to allow herself to be put into situations where that can happen, especially if she has a man at home. Not to mention single or not.. its dangerous. If you can't trust yourself to behave a certain way then how can anyone else can. Sounds like spinning in a downwards spiral. Its hard enough to be completely OK when your man or girl goes out without you it sure as hell hard to be OK when you know that there is a 50-50 chance that she will black out and do something or "someone" and then not remember it,

As far as the lying, your right. Why lie? Because even if her intention was to be honest with you she made herself look like she had something to hide. Sounds like your at the end of your rope with her.

Believe me there are plenty of woman out there that are deserving of your love and they of yours. You will find her. Everyone deserves to be happy.

InSearchofAnswers, I'm interested in why you think she lies. What do you think the reason is. You can be totally honest here.

What part of "move on" don't you understand ? I ,ve personally been there and done that more than once and still feel like a damned fool for not "moving on" sooner ! Get a life with a clean wife. Usually you don't find a life partner in a bar . It sounds "square",but the finest chicks are at the church.

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Originally Posted by InSearchOfAnswers

we hit it off great, and then once we got serious she told me she lost her virginity to rape

and then she refused to stop talking to old f-buddies. i dont think she meets up with them, but she continues covert emails, etc ...

i even went as far as to go to a rape therapist myself to encourage her to join me

no dice

and fwiw, she doesnt currently have a drinking problem per se, she rarely drinks now, but when she does she really ties one on.

and she has such as good heart, but some of her thought processes seem a little warped top me. she seems to be religious about keeping everyone on the same level - me, old exes, whoever. no one takes priority over another.

how is that fair to me? she can't see it

to make matters more complicated, she lives with me and she makes close to zero money. i moved far away from fam and friends to be here with her, and my job is really going great, but if we are here together, it seems like a bad move on my part. and i dont know how the whole living situation will pan out ...

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Sounds to me like you want her to be something she is not and she is not wanting to be what you want her to be. So again the question is not her lies, but "Why are YOU still there" If she makes you unhappy, if you don't trust her, leave!
But don't put her bad points out there for all to see and then stay with her. Don't enable her bad behavior by putting up with it and don't try to change and control her, LEAVE!

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Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

InSearchofAnswers, I'm interested in why you think she lies. What do you think the reason is. You can be totally honest here.

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her excuse was 'she didn't lie, she just didn't recognize the name'... later she said she didn't want to tell me they are friends and coworkers and it worry me, so she was protecting me. She hangs out with him just like she hangs out with everyone else. I have a gut feeling she lies aobut stuff like this more than I know simply to avoid any questions I may have or to avoid some argument.

I've never been a jealous BF at all. Quite the opposite acutally. But this girl has this thing - this 'no man can tame me attitude' and I thinks it stems from her rape years ago.

but backtracking to a couple of months ago when she balcked out out of town with her best girlfriend and that girls ex: I told her its BS she didn't tell me she was crashing with some random guy (her friends ex) and that I couldn't understand why she didn't want to tell me her friend and her BF (now her xBF) had broken up... her excuse, again, was she didn't want me to worry that them breaking up would mean we would break up. That's retarded, but whatever. I don't see how that affects us. Plus, I'm always telling her about my friends' marriages and relationships. I thought that's what couples do...

and she is a very nice girl, she's very sweet, she's very pretty... its just that she drives me crazy with her positions on ceertain things. If we could get rid of the ex talk, so much would improve. Now the recent hiding info or keeping guys from me worries me.

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Originally Posted by bizygurl

First if this girl has "black out" sex with random strangers, I don't understand why she continues to allow herself to be put into situations where that can happen, especially if she has a man at home. Not to mention single or not..its dangerous. If you can't trust yourself to behave a certain way then how can anyone else can. Sounds like spinning in a downwards spiral.

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Again... out of my scope of understanding, but when we first met she had this 'full disclosure' thing where she would bring up old friends - who she at some point sept with - or old BF or old friends with benefits over and over... I told her many many times it bothers me to hear it. I know it has happened. I know we have both had sex. But why rub it in my face? To her, she honestly said she couldn't figure out why it bothered me since it didn't bother her. Not would it bother her to hear my stories. But her insistence bothered me. I tried to tell her - I'm her BF so my feelings should matter. That's what gets me.

And the full disclosure thing encompased her rape and then her 1st two years of school. She went to a few keg parties and drank too much, blacked out, barely remembers banging a guy. It has happened later in life with someone who she dated... you get the picture. That's all I was told about BTW

And fwiw she hates the term 'slut'... she thinks its BS that girls are called sluts. She gives off this antirelationship vibe and exudes the 'i screw like a man' persona sometimes, but she's vulnerable and sweet underneath it all...

OK, well, I can only suggest you keep in mind that the reason you date is to find out how this girl (that you already like, so that's not at issue) really behaves with people she gets close to.

I always say that we save our worst behaviors for people we are closest to. So the closer you two get, the more "real" she will become. You get to decide THEN if this is what you want to put up with in your most important permanent relationship, your marriage.

You don't have to. Liking her, even liking her a LOT, is no reason to make it permanent. Only that she makes your life better. Don't blind yourself over these things, they are more important than anything you consider about her so far.

Its tough

I don't like to think that I'm being used intentionally, and I think sometimes her way of thinking is a direct result of her rape... I could be off base there, but her 'manish' way she treats sex (and has told me about her conquest) makes me believe that she is compensating for what happened to her. I guess after a while, compensation became natural.

For about 4 months there we drifted apart. I had gone to a therapist to seek help for our problem, she said she was going but never did. I was shut off emotionally after this and she picked up on it. She could tell her lack of effort affected us and we didn't have sex during this time... not that I can remember. She apologized and said she realized she dropped the ball, but - and tell me if I'm off base here - I told her that I had brought up that problem over a year ago and she should have addressed it then, not now. After 13 months I kind of had to solve the problem myself and get used to it. It seems shutting myslef down and giving her the cold shoulder was the only thing that got her attention

Yesterday I was a little consumed with this problem as I was just finguring our she was hiding something. Today I have been a little down but I'm trying to get the right attitude. I have girls who have expressed interest in me. Nice/pretty girls. I just love the connection I have with my GF when we are seeing eye to eye. Unfortunately that hasnet been happening a lot lately.

My sister told me to separate and make her miss me. Make her miss my security, etc. and make her appreciate all that I do for her. That's easier said than done.

Thanks for the replies



One more question: does the avg girl sleep with a few of her guy friends over the cousre of her young adult life? I know it happens on se and the city, but in real life, what are the stats?

What's the avg no of parters a 25 yo guy and a 25 yo woman have?

How, typically, does rape affect someone?

You cannot make this girl miss you or change her to be what you want her to be. She may already appreciate you, but the fact is she has problems that she may not be ready to deal with and you can't handle them either. You two are just not a match. Staying and try to use tricks to change her is only going to alienate her.
She is not the one for you and you are not the one for her. You need to move on.
She is not your problem, your problem is this need of yours to rescue and change her despite the pain she causes you, and she does this to you because you let her, so why should she change or care.

InSearchofAnswers,

I have sympathy for your girl here. I mean, I know people who have been raped, and it definitely has a big affect on people, and I commend you as a guy for being able to be sympathetic about it, because a lot of guys just don't know or don't care...

And I don't think you should necessarily assume she would cheat on you; I think you're probably spot-on in thinking she does this kind of thing to try and maintain some kind of power balance with you. She doesn't want you to think you have too much power over her (which may even mean that, really, you mean more to her than you know... or not)

I don't think you need to make her feel bad about herself for her choices -for wanting to remain friends with exes, or for wanting to tell you about her history, say. That's really a personal choice thing. I've dated guys who were much more open about that kind of stuff than I was, and ultimately I just decided that if I trusted the person, that kind of stuff (being best friends with an ex, etc.) shouldn't bother me. I mean, people are people and friends are friends, and in a society with fewer taboos surrounding sex, hopefully they wouldn't be any less so just because you've had sex with them...

But I also agree with the other posters that say that she may not meet your needs, and you have as much right to break up with her for that. In fact, you're probably not helping her if you're visibly unhappy a lot -martyrdom in a relationship is generally not practical or healthy. I wouldn't necessarily think your way is better, or that everything she does is just because she's "messed up" from a traumatic experience -I think that's over-simplifying. But you might just say to her: "I do x, y, z for you because you matter to me. I need you to do x, y, z for me... and when you do v, w instead it hurts me. This relationship just isn't working for me. If we can't compromise on this issue, I think we're not compatible, and it would be best to end this relationship to allow us to search for more compatible people..." Something like that. Something very honest and straightforward, where she won't feel like you're blaming her or accusing her of being "broken" or something...

Make sense?

86

1st - thank you for your response. It's a complicated situation as you can see and I hate to read the "just get over it and move on posts"... I know those mean well, but its not that simple.

Im sure this whole situation isn't 100% due to the rape. I am smart enough to know that any traumantic event of any nature can affect how one thinks. Im sure losing ones virginity to rape/date rape can and problably has affected her approcah to sex. She's even told me so (random balclout sex when she was young and depressed in college).

But my point is she isn't fully aware how far that poison has spread into other areas of her mind. I don't blame her, and I don't pity her. I have respect for her being strong, but when she crosses certain lines that go from "strong" to "offfensive" (to me) it bothers me. I know she has had casual relatinships. I have too. I have told her this. My point is that I prefer not to hear it. I don't want to hear her talk up this great, super hot guy she met on a batchelorette party and randomly slept with for 6 weeks. What does that bring to the relationship? It doesn't paint a pretty picture and how does that help bring us closer? It doesn't - just the opposite. The real issue for me was she would do that over and over... finally I had to throw a fit and tell her STOP!! She did, but she didn't get it.

and I went to the therapist in an effort to learn how to politley speak about it and how to effectively communicate. I don't know one guy who would have gone through that so early in the relationship. I deemed her worthy. I respect her, but I expect respect back. I think that's only fair.

If she is hiding this guy to 'protect me' and nothing is going on, then she is actually hurting us. I told her this. Me catching her in lies doesn't help us at all and she realizes it but I guess when she gets back in town (shes currently out of town working - has been for a while now)...

and I don't make her feeel bad about her ex contact. The guys in mind were flings that lasted for a very short time (I don't consider that an ex). I just let her know it bothers me. And until very recently, she has told me "they contact me to see what im up to, so i contact them back" and overall I "show her problems but never give her solutions" so essentially she's sidestepping the fact that she could halt all the chatter... the real issue (for me) was 1. is this the rapes effects? 2. why does she have this 'need' to continue these relationships and 3. most importantly, why doesn't she put any effort into helping me solve our problems?

Well, here are a few more things to think about:

Could be she's "playing games" to try and make you jealous, which is supposed to make you more into her/compete for her attention. As a young woman, I've gotten advice to do this from various older men and women both... Not sure that it's ever worked, though.

Could be something a little less conventional. Like here's a personal story (in brief): I had kind of a casual fling with a guy for a couple of months. Then he met someone he wanted as a girlfriend, and I found out first through a second-hand source. I was hurt and a little pissed, so I was fairly surprised when he asked me if we could stay in touch. Truth was though, I'd always felt a pretty strong connection to him, especially in a friendly way, so I decided to do it. So yes, I am still attracted to him, but also if I ever had a boyfriend who wanted me to cut off connection with this guy altogether I'd tell him to shove it; because to me, that's crossing my boundaries.

Could be she's not looking for any particular reaction from you, but rather /she/ wants to maintain contact with these people; or simply she prefers to have multiple guys she's attracted to in her life in some capacity, and it's not something she's willing to compromise for your sake.

Could be she's testing you. Maybe she wants to know that you trust her enough to not flip out over knowing she keeps contact with these people. Maybe she wants to really feel like you'll stick with her for the longhaul before she starts to invest herself more in you.

Or as suggested above, it could be purely a control thing, which could be partially due to having been raped. Or it could be combinations thereof. If she won't tell you /why/ she does it and she won't stop, I think you may just have to accept it as a part of her which she may or may not change over time, and you have to decide whether you can want to be with her as a whole.

As to your #3 I totally agree that is an issue. Which is why I suggested laying out the facts for her in the manner presented in my post above.

I see a whole bunch of wrong in this post, and people probably won't agree with me on this subject. I have NEVER believed in that whole "so drunk I did this" crap. If you can't control your alcohol, then don't drink. Personally I think she is using the drinking as an excuse to run around being a tramp and I would put money on the fact she has cheated on you before.

Second, she lies because you will believe them and she doesn't think it's a big deal anymore. She's become so good at it that she actually believes them herself.

I have gotten really drunk myself(just turned 21 in August) so I know how that is, but NEVER have I even hooked up with someone and didn't remember it. If you want to stay with her, be my guest but it's only going to continue. She should really chose her friends better(girls I know wouldn't let their friend do that stuff)

I won't even touch the rape subject right now, too early. But I don't think the behavior she is exhibiting right now fits well with someone who has been raped before(I could be wrong)

Sorry I'm so grumpy this morning guys, and don't take the post as being too critical, I am just tired of the drunk excuse from people

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Originally Posted by Romefalls19

I won't even touch the rape subject right now, too early. But I don't think the behavior she is exhibiting right now fits well with someone who has been raped before(I could be wrong)

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You are wrong. A lot of the behavior she exhibits fits someone who was raped. She is acting out and she probably has a drinking problem. But he is enabling her by allowing her to disrespect him. He puts up with it and then complains. He should "pee or get off the pot", put up with it or leave her. But to say she is "really a nice person" while at the same time telling people about her bad behavior then patting himself on the back for putting up with it is not right.

After looking up the information, it appears it goes either way, so I was not wrong, just not completely right. So I do apologize for making that assumption, but I do fully think he is using that as an excuse to kind of justify her behavior. She needs to seek counseling for this or it's never going to end

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Originally Posted by Romefalls19

After looking up the information, it appears it goes either way, so I was not wrong, just not completely right. So I do apologize for making that assumption, but I do fully think he is using that as an excuse to kind of justify her behavior. She needs to seek counseling for this or it's never going to end

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I agree.

Romefalls,

There are not only two ways people can react to rape. People can react in many, many different ways, depending on individual differences. And also, different people recover at different rates.

I don't think it's accurate to say he's "enabling" her, because that indicates he has some ability to control her that perhaps he should be using, which in fact, he doesn't and he shouldn't... Fundamentally, rape is about control -it's about someone taking away someone else's ability to make choices about their own body. A crucial element to recovery of rape for most people is learning to reassert control over their own life and body in some form or another (this from someone trained to aid survivors of sexual assault). This is something many survivors have difficulty doing -which is why many survivors are prone to falling into abusive relationships, where their partner controls them too much.

For all any of us know, the things she's doing now are helping her to work through her issues, and she will reach where she needs to be to be happier with her own life in her own time. Ultimately though, she has to make her own decisions, and all anyone else can do is provide support, or let her know if the things she's doing are causing them to feel hurt.

Not to mention, according to what InSearch said, the only truly dangerous element to her behavior (blackout sex) is something she hasn't done for awhile.

I don't think she's deliberately disrespecting him, so much as it's her needs are different than his at this time (i.e. if she had her way, both of them would have more freedom and less of an overwhelming role in the other's life than he wants them to have). Counseling might help her, but of course no one can force her to go, and counseling isn't the only way to get better; also, counseling wouldn't guarantee that she would decide to act the way he wants her to act.

And Romefalls, it is absolutely NOT OKAY to just /assume/ someone is lying.

To clarify, I was referring specifically to your comment that she was cheating on him, Rome. Not the small things that he /knows/ she lied about. (I mean, IMO she should be able to be friends with whoever she wants to -yeah it's odd she feels a need to lie about it, but at the same time if she felt like the inquisition was after her maybe she felt defensive)

So basically what you're telling me is you think it's okay for her to go and sleep around? That's destructive behavior and anyone who says that's okay to do, is a moron.

Also, if you read his opening line in the post... He caught her in lies, so please do tell how in the blue hell was I "assuming" she lied? Please read the posts before posting your opinions. And had you read the post below Homegirl, I apologized for saying that's the only way someone could reacted, which is where I also put "(I could be wrong)" and after I put that, I went and researched the topic. And thus retracted my previous statement about the rape.

I never said she definitely did, I just said I would put money on that she has because of her behavior that the POSTER describe. People in committed relationships do not behave that way and I'm pretty sure the majority of the forum members will agree on the fact that she is exhibiting the signs of a cheater. Hiding who the guy was on myspace(FLAG), Lying about who she was with a few weekends ago(FLAG)... But hey, if you don't considering them flags, that's your belief my friend

In your first post you were more or less "assuming" that she lied about having cheated on him (you don't bet on something unless you're pretty confident it's true -well, unless you don't like money I guess). Pretty simple, from what I can tell.

And who, praytell, gets to decide what does and does not qualify as "sleeping around"? This is a country with a lot of diverse practices, and I refuse to get in some kind of puritanical moral debate with you.

When sex is bad is A) when it's not done safely (with protection, etc.), and B) if it leaves a person feeling worse about life in general, or when they are hurting someone such as a partner who has been promised monogamy. "Sleeping around" is not inherently destructive, and I am not at all a moron (well, at least according to our national academic standards). There are people who engage in behaviors you might call "sleeping around" and do it with respect for themselves and others and who feel perfectly fine about themselves and life in general afterwards. It's totally on an individual basis, and you can't make such generalized statements.

And I agree there's something to the lying about these guys she's friends with. But why, I wonder, was IKnows asking her about them, and although he doesn't think he's a jealous boyfriend, is it possible she perceives things a little differently? All I'm saying is that you have to look at things on an individual basis... and I provided several possible explanations above that didn't have to involve "she's cheating"

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Originally Posted by InSearchOfAnswers

i have talked my head off about this. already told her i couldnt justify taking our relationship to the next level if she didnt lose the Xs ... she didnt budge

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I think you know what you should do, Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does, If she is refusing to seek help how can she then turn around and use it as an excuse for her behavior, Sure there are women who are raped and behave in such ways as she does, but she needs to seek professional help and realize that this was a terrible thing, but its time to move on with one's life in THE RIGHT direction.

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Originally Posted by InSearchOfAnswers

her excuse was that she didnt want to put undo pressure on me since i was inbetweeen jobs at the time

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Since when is she really concerned about your emotions? She didn't want to put pressure on you but unfortanetely she is still holding on to the ex's... Sounds to me that you need to pause, STOP trying to help someone that doesn't want to be helped, and help yourself, And you can't continue to use her past to allow her to treat you the way she does. I know you want to be there for her, but don't allow her to bring you down in the process. If she doesn't want your help or HELP period there is no more you can do.. You can still love her from a distance

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

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Originally Posted by Toluca_86

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

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Originally Posted by insearchofanswers

"she has an excuse for everything.

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Okay lets forget she was raped and exclude this out and go solely on her behavior.. My point is that he can't change her, and had he not known about her past he would probably not accept this behavior. My point is that its unfortanate that this happened, and she may perhaps be doing these things subconsciously.. But the reality is that he shouldn't be sticking around because he feels bad for her past, This is a very touchy subject, and everyone pyschologically is affected differently. However, if she mentioned it to him she wants him to know, but then she refuses to get help, and continue to act the way she does, Understand there is nothing he CAN DO he can either stick around and complain about it, Leave and be quiet about it, or just accept the way things are, and not try to change her. The end

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I wish I could find someone who wants, and deserves, my love...

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She does, what she does, and either accept her for what she is, or move your life to another level. After two years, she hasn't changed, or has even been willing, take that as a fact, and deal with it, and stop trying to make her be someone she doesn't want to be. No shame in breaking up, just because your not a good fit. But it's a shame to stay, and HOPE, she changes. Love yourself, enough to realize, its her right to do as she pleases, and your right to make yourself happy. She ain't the one to make you happy. You can end all this confusion, and speculation, just by MAKING A DECISION, AND STICKING TO IT. Just me I'm long gone.

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Originally Posted by Toluca_86

I don't think it's accurate to say he's "enabling" her, b/c that indicates he has some ability to control her that perhaps he should be using, which in fact, he doesn't and he shouldn't... .

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He is enabling her in that he allows her to continue in behavior destructive to the relationship and continues to make excuses for her sticks with her puts up with it. It is saying to her, "it's OK to do this and treat me this way". Enabling is not controlling, but allowing a person to continue in their behavior even though you don't like it or think it's dangerous. It's like a person who makes excuses for an alcoholic, provides them with what they need knowing their behavior is destructive.

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Originally Posted by jolienoire

Okay lets forget she was raped and exclude this out and go solely on her behavior.. My point is that he can't change her, and had he not known about her past he would probably not accept this behavior. My point is that its unfortanate that this happened, and she may perhaps be doing these things subconsciously.. But the reality is that he shouldn't be sticking around because he feels bad for her past, This is a very touchy subject, and everyone pyschologically is affected differently. However, if she mentioned it to him she wants him to know, but then she refuses to get help, and continue to act the way she does, Understand there is nothing he CAN DO he can either stick around and complain about it, Leave and be quiet about it, or just accept the way things are, and not try to change her. The end

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Originally Posted by Toluca_86

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

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She doesn't justify her behavior due to rape... she - imo - can't see how the rape has affected her thinking at all.

one thing is for sure: she taking me for granted. I told her in an email this moring that I do everything for her and expect just a little grattitude in exchange. From my point of view she does the bare minimum to keep this relationship going.

she's still out of town, but when she returns, I'm going to put an end to it. I haven't fully decided if I'm going to break our lease and move out (she lives here, and with her $ situation, she can't afford an apt).

and that ^^ only complicates things since I know she will resent me for putting the rent burden on her shoulders.

fwiw, there is a lot of love in this relationship even though I have ranted about the problems. However it is obvious that her career is what's most important to her now.

You could... live with her until the lease is up. I know it's never fun living with an ex, but I know a number of couples who've done this due to financial reasons.

Does your lease allow for subletting though?

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Originally Posted by InSearchOfAnswers

again ... out of my scope of understanding, but when we first met she had this 'full disclosure' thing where she would bring up old friends - who she at some point sept with - or old BF or old friends with benefits over and over ... i told her many many times it bothers me to hear it. i know it has happened. i know we have both had sex. but why rub it in my face? to her, she honestly said she couldnt figure out why it bothered me since it didnt bother her. not would it bother her to hear my stories. but her insistance bothered me. i tried to tell her - im her BF so my feelings should matter. Thats what gets me.

And the full disclosure thing encompased her rape and then her 1st two years of school. She went to a few keg parties and drank too much, blacked out, barely remembers banging a guy. It has happened later in life with someone who she dated ... you get the picture. Thats all i was told about BTW

and fwiw she hates the term 'slut' ... she thinks its BS that girls are called sluts. She gives off this antirelationship vibe and exudes the 'i screw like a man' persona sometimes, but shes vulnerable and sweet underneath it all ...

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InSearchOfAnswers, I think its normal to talk about one anothers past. Past relationships, past expierences but I think there comes to a certain point, especially sexual experiences when you really don't want to hear the for the millionth time how they banged 2 guys (or girls) in one night, how good it was. I don't blame you. My fiancée has had a lenghty past of that stuff, and although In the beginning I didn't mind as much to hear about it because I was curious, I don't really want to hear about it much anymore. Especially when he brings it up and I don't ask him to. I don't have a past like he does. I've only been with 2 men my whole life so in my case I can't compare to his. Its normal to feel that way. If it doesn't bother her then fine. That could depend on if you talk about your past often, if you don't then she may not care as much. If it bothers you as much as you say it does then she should probably chill out with it even if a little.

I know you said she was raped, but that, I would think would make her think about doing what she's been doing. Meaning, if she's putting herself in an environment or situations that something like that could happen again then why? And whether people think she's a "slut" or not, If she's exuding "i screw like a man" vibe and projecting that behavior while she's out, men are going to think that's who she is, regardless if she's sweet and vulnerable with you. I think her behavior just sounds like its causing a lack of trust, and although I'm sure she's a great person she may not be girlfriend material if that's what your looking for.