See my post below if you want to read the really short version of this

Long Version, I met my ex in Germany while I was in the army, she was a medical intern from Budapest and working in Berlin when we met, our relationship started a few months later after she broke up with her ex and we both traveled back to Berlin. We had what seemed like an extremely romantic and emotional one night stand, but after we both returned to our homes we started calling each other from Frankfurt to Budapest, and eventually flying to visit, she gave me a happy surprise by showing up unannounced once. During these visits we fell in love and for reasons I can't discuss I know that know matter what I do she is not capable of stopping loving me even if it is not the best thing for her.

At one point she got another internship in Germany nearer to me and we got a place to live together, things seemed great and we always settled our differences (what few there were at the time) with compromise and communication.

During this time we began to have a sexual issues though, I had an unhealthy addiction to pornography and immature attitudes about sex. Sex began to cause her both emotional and physical discomfort, and I while I was sensitive to her I did not act to resolve the issue, which we convinced ourselves was something physically wrong with her.

I got out of the army early and we moved back to Hungary together. This was an exciting time, she had her friends back, which was very important to us because she felt isolated in Germany on account of me being a shut in. I began attending Hungarian language classes and I was and still am enthusiastic about learning the language but I couldn't keep my excitement high for the duration of the course, and my attendance suffered, afterwards my motivation waned and I became lazy and stopped leaving the house almost altogether, quite often she would stay in when she would have gone out if I wasn't there. And our sexual relationship deteriorated even more, until she completely lost all desire to make love with me. I regressed further and continued indulging my porn addiction.

Throughout our relationship we made efforts to bring porn into our sexual relationship she even made efforts to share in my use of it, but ultimately it was not for her and she always felt negative (guilt or shame) about it afterwards no matter how good the experience was.

Outside of our sex and social life, all aspects of our relationship seemed genuinely good, we loved spending time together doing all sorts of things and she was broadening my horizons. I was helping her to grow and encouraging her, while I was becoming much less stressed and more patient. Her family had never made any of her other boyfriends part of the family like they did for me. And all her friends loved me too. She told me many times that I made her feel wonderful in ways that no one else ever had. And she did that for me as well.

But the problems were getting worse and we decided that we needed time apart, I returned to America for three weeks to help a family member that was in trouble and when I returned things seemed OK but not improved, we went on holiday for three weeks and I thought it was a great time, but much later she made it sound as if it was a disaster.

Finally I made the decision to return semi-permanently to the US to work and attend College with my money from the government, as well as finish becoming a man by being on my own and finding out what life is like when you've only got yourself to rely upon.
We agreed that we could see other people while we were apart, she even encouraged me to(bad sign, I know) but I didn't believe that either of us would. Things were horrible when I got back, it was difficult for the first month without a job or car or a place of my own, I wrote infrequently to her and usually complained, and I neglected her. I had been back in the US about a month when she took her final exams for her Medical Degree, and I forgot to call on the day of the first one, because I had a job interview. We fought about how I was not worried about her problems when she was stressed and I wasn't 'there' for her, and I was only concerned with how hard things were for me. I did my best to make up for them and she seemed to open up a bit but she never came completely around after the exams.

A few weeks later she didn't call or write for about a week and when we finally talked and she told me she didn't feel comfortable being my girlfriend anymore, she wanted to be 'just herself' I told her she could, we both cried and she made it sound as if she were saying goodbye, she told me that she would have come to live with me in America if I had only made it sound like I was happier. In the end I told her she could live her life and that I would try to do the same. The following days it ate me up inside until I couldn't hold it anymore, and I called her back and told her that I would fight for her until my last breath and that I'd never let her go. She sounded happy but scared that I was fighting in vain, but I felt better that I told her how much I wanted us to work. I didn't call her for a few days, then a four days before Christmas she called and said that she missed me. After we talked for a bit she said that I sounded like I was doing very well, (the truth is I was not but I was incredibly happy that she called and I wanted to make her proud) and because I sounded stronger now she thought I was ready for her to tell me something that she had to say. She started by saying that there was somebody else that she would rather go to parties with... then when I questioned her she told me that she had kissed and slept with other men and was still seeing one and had slept with him more than once.

I felt emptiness inside, it wasn’t the pain I felt when she told me she didn’t want to be mine, it was slow deep hurt of shock and then jealousy, I tried my best to keep my cool and I’m sure that I sounded very small and weak but I told her that I was disappointed but that I loved her anyway and I forgave her, because I had given her permission.

I tried to talk to her less afterward because I don’t want to be the jealous ex, but it upset me so much that it all happened while she has a brand new freedom and is surrounded by friends and family and opportunity. She was doing nothing but partying until she has to prepare to find work next year. While I am here, alone, hungry, working a physical labor job that I am unaccustomed to, with few friends, and long hours of nothing to do in-between hard workdays.

I was getting ready to leave her, but I couldn’t each time I got any word from her.

Finally I put some puzzle pieces together and I realized from things she had said that she had already met her new fling, before she told me she wanted to separate. This made me very angry because it made it apparent to me that while I don’t need her to survive and am doing better now, she couldn’t stand being alone in the midst of all her blessings, and she was still afraid of losing me enough to mislead me so that she could cheat on me guilt free and keep me on a string, waiting for her to come back.

I believe she should have told me that she had met somebody the first time she called me but instead she said she wanted independence even though she had picked out her new lover, and then she waited for me to become bent on winning her back to tell me she was with somebody else.

So I decided to stop contact with her. She didn’t contact me until the day before New Year’s Eve, she sent a message that said

“Did you call? I couldn’t hear my anything. I’m out playing guitar hero with kids, kisses”

The important thing here is that if I called her, there is no way she would not know, because I am pretty universal when I want to get a hold of somebody I’ll write messages and call several times and email and so forth, so she knew I had not called. I responded in a friendly but distant manner a couple hours later;

“Just got your message. I’ve been working in my garage. I didn’t call but I was thinking about guitar hero today.”

On the 31st I knew she would not call for new years, I but I waited all day anyway, and I sent this just before midnight her time

“Happy New year I hope it’s good one”


Friendly but impersonal.


I even went out with some new friends and tried to enjoy myself. But I felt miserable. The

Next day she sent me another text at 5:00pm her time

“Happy happy new year! Im so sorry my phone died last night and i just got home. Talk to u soon i hope u had a great time!! Kisses”

This made me angry because it felt like she was trying to rub it in that she spent the night and the entire day out, and it doesn’t take much of an imagination to picture her with her new lover bringing in the new year together in all sorts of ways that me want to die.

So I didn’t respond, I haven’t talked to her since then, but I still love her and I even believe that she might not realize that she is playing these horrible games with me.

Since then she had sent me several more messages, the went as follows

In the middle of a job interview I told her I had on the 2nd of Jan (fortunately I had my phone on silent)

“Hey hun, are you available now? Luv”



The response I sent an hour or so after the interview:

“Can’t right now”

And a few hours later I wrote this

"Can't talk to you tonight, I'm busy sorry"



Later that day she replied

“It’s ok. We have a whole new year ahead. Talk to you later. Kisses”


By this point I’m feel angry enough that I don’t really want to call her, but still I do want to talk to her and Dammit I still love her.

Today is the 5th and she has tried to chat with me and even called later on Skype I didn’t answer the chat, but I wasn’t around when she called, probably makes me lucky.

Short version, I was with my ex for 2 years, lived together for 18months, relationship was hurting because we we're living off her parents money, she was going to med school, and I wasn't doing anything, so we decided to separate so I could get on my feet and she could have some freedom. Shortly after she asked me if she could be 'just her' while I'm away and not be my girl friend, I agreed because I want her to get her freedom back and find herself. Soon after this she called and said she missed me and after hearing how good I sounded told me that she had been with other men. I tried like hell to convince her that I'm not the same guy I was before and that she should love me as much as I love her because I've grown. Now I'm trying no contact and she has started sending me messages asking to talk, I'm ignoring them until she gets persistent, but I don't know how bad she wants to talk. I'm afraid of getting my hopes up again, but I do still love her and I can forgive her for the things she's done.



Here is my question!

So Now what do I do, It’s obvious she wants to talk but she doesn’t contact me logically, she won’t just send me an email or a message trying to make a time to talk, she just expects me to call her I guess. Well I want her to miss me and I want her to realize how big a mistake she made when she left me. So I’m waiting, but I don’t have any clue what I’m going to say when we talk.

Just my opinion, but any talking you do should be in person. As one great president said, 'Trust but verify'. You have no way to verify what she is saying to you, therefore she can say anything. Do you guys write to each other? Maybe if she were to write you a letter explaining how she found herself, then she could show you her logical side and where she would like the relationship to go.

Talking in person would quite difficult, I'm in Arizona and she is in Hungary.

My guess is she may be scared, since you are so far away, that you might never get back together and then she wasted her time waiting. But she isn't sure if she wants to have a life without you because it could take her in a whole different direction that didn't include you. Girls have a hard time with a change that feels like breaking up and they will one minute be talking like they don't want to be with you then the next calling and saying they miss you. They do this because they think of the good times you had together and then think of a future that doesn't include you and then get all emotional

She is probably confused herself about what she wants. She most likely won't persist you because she might think you are too busy, don't want to be bothered with her, moved on with your life and forgotten about her since you are doing NC.
If you want to be with her you need to keep communicating with her otherwise she is going to think you don't care anymore or that you are playing a game with contact/no contact.
When there is a big distance you need to keep letting her know you are still interested.

It seems as your priority should be you, and getting your own life in order. Yes I have read both versions of your story, and you have a lot of work to do for you. Leave her alone for the time being, so you can't be distracted from your own issues. She is living her own life at this time. As well she should.

Thank you Nohelp4you, I've been thinking that it doesn't feel natural not to call her, and I was worried that what you are saying might happen, (that she will lose confidence and believe I have moved on) I think I will call her today and fill her in on some news but I won't get too smothering.

Sometimes it is difficult to convince somebody that you're doing well though, I was just turned down by a really promising job, but I'm still being optimistic and I've even told myself that it could be for the best that I'm staying at my physical job because this way I can use my mental power in college and stay in shape at work.

Talaniman, I agree and I have been making an effort to concentrate on myself, however an excess of free time often (every minute almost) causes my focus to drift back to her, I am filling my free time with activity though.

But there are some other factors that I need to consider, I was offered a job in Hungary and I am waiting for details about it before I consider it seriously, and I thought deeply about it and I decided that even if we don't get back together I would rather live in Hungary if I can afford to go to a university there.

It is also like you said, she is living her own life, and I believe I am doing the same, but she has made it clear through her attempts to contact me that she at least wants me to believe that she wants me to continue being a part of her life.

I also just noticed that some things I wrote are missing from my initial post, they concerned the progress I've made since I've been living alone:

Since I began working I've become much more productive, I enjoy my free time much more and I don't waste a lot of time sitting around doing nothing. I don't use pornography any more at all, and I have nearly stopped masturbating, I used to abuse myself excessively and now I am happy that I don't waste my time and energy doing it anymore. I've made many new friends, one who tried to get me the job I mentioned, even though I didn't get the job I'm still socializing much more and it feels good to go out and talk with people which is something I didn't do enough of before and during my relationship with my ex (to her and my chagrin). I've reconciled with my family who I had grown distant with. I'm also proud of myself overall because my health and fitness have improved vastly and I don't feel tired after working as I have my entire life until now.

So I feel that while I still have growing to do (I'm not dead yet!) I have moved so far from the person I was when I left her, and I feel entitled to her acknowledgment, because she was what motivated a great deal of my improvement. Just let me make it clear though, even though she inspired me to better myself, and even the fear of losing her motivated a lot of change, I ultimately made these changes because they were what I wanted.

Well I panicked. I called at a bad time, she was with the other man, she said she would call me back, and she did, several times she called the next three days but I wasn't around or I just didn't answer. I thought it was working really great, but I was wrong. When I finally answered I tried to be cool and sound busy and uninterested. I felt horrible after, I don't think it had any affect on her and I just felt like I had lied.

So I panicked again and I called her back, I told her how I really felt, and that I didn't want to play games anymore. I told her how I was disappointed in her and how I thought she was making mistakes, she predictably got angry, not very. But she pointed out how I was wrong on nearly all of my accusations, she did admit to misleading me about when she met the other man, but she did it to try to hurt me less because she was afraid of how badly I'd take it. And she said to me "if were not playing games anymore and being honest, then I have to tell you I don't want to be with you."

We finished by me saying that I want to be in her life and we agreed that we would talk more

It wasn't to be, I know better, I know the anguish that I feel when she told me she doesn't love me anymore and again when she told me she does not want me back. I thought hard about it, and I took the advice I got here, and I wrote her a message that said goodbye, but I didn't send it, I owe her more than that, she at least called to tell me that she didn't want me anymore. So I decided to call her after work the next day. I couldn't wait that long, I was crying and shaking all day at work and on my break I called and I told her that I was wrong to call her before and it was selfish and I told her that I needed to be selfish one more time. This is more or less what I told her,

I can't go on like this, we can't talk anymore. I love you and I will never stop loving you, but I have to accept that 'one day' when we meet again might never come, if we keep talking I can't accept that so I have to say goodbye.

I'm happy that I can't hurt you anymore, but I would be lying if I told you that I didn't want it to hurt you when I said goodbye,
You gave me so many chances and I wasted them, I'm sorry that I failed you so many times. Don't feel bad I was wrong to say I was disappointed in you. I made so many mistakes.

Please forgive me but I have to tell you one last thing before I leave you.

I want you to remember a moment we shared ****this was a private thing between us****

Please remember that

If you ever want to give me another chance please do. But I can't hope for that I'm not waiting for that day anymore I can't live that way. You don't love me, you don't need me anymore you have somebody else now, I can't wait for you any longer.
I will always love you, I will never forget you, but we are never going to be together again,
She said that we would know when we can talk again, but I cut her off and said I can't think that, I can't wait for it, I have to let her go.
She said to me that she made mistakes and I told her she didn't,

She also said that she will never forget me and that I had succeeded in one way, she told me she felt terrible now, and I only cried more and apologized. I feel guilty that I did this to her, in part I did it because I wanted her to feel this pain before she goes back to her new lover, I want her to think of us and what we had and my pain when she is with him this weekend. I want her to miss me, and I know she does, but I want her to miss me more than she wants to be with her new lover. I want her to think about me during the entire train ride to him, I want her to remember me when she goes home and sees some of my things that are still there, and whenever she remembers me I want her to realize how good it was before it went bad, and I know that this thought is going to eat me up inside but I just want her to remember me when she realizes she doesn't love the man she is with.

I know that I'm selfish, but I have to be a little selfish now or else I won't be able to bear this pain anymore. I want to spoil her relationship with him, I know I'm wrong, but I feel like she cheated on me. I know that she didn't and I want her to be happy, but I want to make her happy. All I can do now is wait, and try to forget her. But I know I will never forget her, she is the first person I ever loved and I know she truly loved me. So all I can really do is wait for it to stop hurting and move on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by homesick

I know that I'm selfish, but I have to be a little selfish now or else I won't be able to bear this pain anymore. I want to spoil her relationship with him, I know I'm wrong, but I feel like she cheated on me. I know that she didn't and I want her to be happy, but I want to make her happy. All I can do now is wait, and try to forget her. But I know I will never forget her, she is the first person I ever loved and I know she truly loved me. So all I can really do is wait for it to stop hurting and move on.

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In a question that I had posed not too long ago, one of the amazing (and wise) relationship gurus on this forum put things into perspective when he said, "Yes, he deserves to be happy, but SO DO YOU." You deserve happiness just as much as she does.

You said, "All i can really do is wait for it to stop hurting and move on." You're right. It hurts like hell, I know, but one day - probably more "later" than "sooner" - the pain will ease up a little bit and you'll be able to re-capture your thinking and your heart. The story about the Phoenix rising from the ashes is quite appropriate...

One day you will be happy again, one day you will wake up not thinking about her, one day you will notice that pretty girl that smiles at you in the food store, and then one day, one amazing day, you'll remember that its been a while since you cried... and in that day, your life will begin again.

Keep your chin up... that day will come. You'll rise from these ashes of a wrecked and ruined relationship to find that you are stronger, wiser, and more love-able than before.

Sorry about the way this worked out but you can and will make it through just fine. You wrote: "She said to me that she made mistakes and I told her she didn't" Just a comment; there are some other threads where guys and gals are talking about their 'significant other' on a pedestal; over time I believe you will realize she doesn't belong on a pedestal and you shouldn't blame yourself for the relationship going south.

I agree with you a bit, but to be honest I mostly told her that she didn't make mistakes because I want her to realize that I see my problems more clearly, and I wanted to leave her with a feeling that I love her.

I know she did things wrong, but she was not aware of most of them. It's also true that we both could have helped each other more with our own problems. We communicated but sometimes she did not communicate her needs, likewise I did not dig deep enough sometimes to find out if something was bothering her.

One particular problem was her disappointment in me because did not show enough interest in some things she showed, her high school was one thing, she showed it to me and according to her I was indifferent. Just before she told me about the other man, she mentioned that it made her angry that I showed so little interest in it, and that she had shown somebody else and they got excited and hopped out of the car and wanted to run up close to look, which was exactly what she expected. Obviously this turned out to be her new lover, I doubt this was her honest expectation but I can understand in a way her disappointment, but she admitted that she felt guilty for being angry at me about this, and that she considered it childish to be disappointed over something so trivial, never the less it was another black mark on her "womans record against man she loves".


Basically I've reached the conclusion that I'll never get her back, and I have to face the steps of recovery one at a time.

I'm sad that she fell out of love with me, I'm angry that even though she fell back in love with me when I left, she quickly fell out of love as soon as somebody interesting came along. I'm disappointed that she couldn't be alone, and that she was afraid of losing me until she was sure that she got on well with her new boyfriend. I'm hurt deeply but I still understand and forgive because she acted from fear. I'm most disappointed that she did not acknowledge all the work I have done for her here by myself, by just waiting a while longer or at least being honest with me. She told me that she did not want to get involved with anybody else, and I believe that she believed that. But I think it's unacceptable how quickly she lowered her resolve, especially because this guy is not somebody that she wants to spend her whole life with, and originally she said she let herself be with him because she won't break his heart. But that may have changed, I think she is falling for him and I have a pretty good feeling that she will get hurt or bored. In my love blind state I hope desperately that that will happen and that she calls me grief stricken and begs me to take her back, which I will of course, but only after much consideration and a lot of communication with her.

Any way thank you all for your advice and for reading all that tangled mess. I appreciate very much having additional people to help me vent.

Thank you for sharing this aspect of your life. We are all on a journey that is not always mapped and the road signs are difficult to read.

Easy: swallow your damn prides and work it out.

Sorry haha didn't mean for it to come out that negative. What I mean is I have hella friends who lose relationships and the people they love because they won't swallow they're prides. They wait for each other to make the first move or wait for the other person to work it out.

I don't know if pride is an issue anymore, she has told me that she doesn't love me, the first time was last summer when I was still living with her. She told me she doesn't want to be with me anymore, she is in a new relationship with somebody else, and she has told me that she doesn't want to get back together with me. I don't have much pride left after she has taken away my manhood like this. I've begged her and pleaded her and tried to remind her of why we fell in love, but it's pretty obvious that she doesn't believe she loves me anymore, I don't know how I can work it out with her if it's even possible. If I could I would but she doesn't love me anymore, I have to live my life, if I keep trying to win her back and pushing her into her new lovers arms it's going to drive me insnane. It's bad enough that I think about it all the time. I made lots of moves and she has responded more negatively each time. If I keep telling her I love her she will eventually become much more harsh in the manner that she tells me she doesn't love me and eventually her pity will turn to hate. I don't want to make her believe that I've moved on but if I don't there is not even a chance that she will consider me a man ever again. I realize that that is not the point of me ending my half of the relationship it's supposed to be about me recovering my life, but I'm still in denial, I want to believe that we could still end up together, but mostly I know that it will never happen.

homesick, you are beginning to come around. Try getting your mind away from what you are thinking, and focus on what she is thinking and doing.

First of all the high school, is nothing but a smokescreen to shift blame. She lost interest long ago due to something. She is nothing but a liar. Now she is trying to rationize her decisions with BS statements like "it just happened", "you wen't there for me" and so on.

"She told me that she did not want to get involved with anybody else," - another lie. She has been looking for a while

And now you are BEGGING. This is a serious turnoff for women as they view that as a sign of weakness.

Next time you talk to her, tell her she is a loser and you though about it and thank god things didn't pursue further as it would have been one of the biggest mistakes you ever made in your life.

Don't call her again. I promise she will call within 2 months of NC.

Dude, this happens over and over on these boards. I have been there myself and acting like you are and it got me nowhere. Only years later did I realize how deceptive ex's can be.

There are some good girls out there, but not this one.

Why have you mentioned high school? I met her when I was 21 and she was 24. We are now 23 and 26.

She never said that I wasn't there for her, I figured that out myself because when I was living with her and for a time after I left, I was a vapid lazy person, and now I see why she stopped being attracted to me.

As for whether she was looking for somebody else, you can't know what she was doing, I choose to believe that she did not intentionally find another man, but we discussed it and she is well aware that she is afraid of being alone, and I know that she was subconsciously seeking somebody else to support her. At first it was her close female friend who she was spending all her time with. But then we had some friction added to our distance and she met a guy who was kind to her and has many nice qualities. So, she, latched onto him because she is a lonely, needy person (for lack of a better term). She is currently incapable of being single.

I have a deep personal hope that may be futile that someday she will outgrow this need to be with somebody and then we could be together, but I also have to realize that I'm hurting so bad right now, not only because I miss her, but also because I am afraid to be alone, I just haven't got anybody to go to but her. There are still two extremely unlikely possibilities that we both outgrow our fears of aloneness and we find each other again and build a new healthy relationship, or we remain the way we are and we latch back together as soon as we are both single again.

I hope that we are both stronger and wiser someday and we get another chance, but I know it's not healthy to wait my whole life for that chance, I have to heal myself and move on. I'm not ready to let that hope go yet but I will be soon I hope, and then it won't matter to me if we ever get back together because I will have learned to be happy without her. I hope she can do the same.

One thing your getting good at, is making excuses for her behavior, and bashing yourself over the head. Neither of which is helpful to you.

Got to 'spread it around'; good points Tal; whatever you do, don't make excuses for her behavior or rationalize to where you are at fault!!

I know that no contact started two days ago for me, and I should have done it in at the beginning of November, but I'm starting the official No Contact Calender now because I really blew my first attempt at it starting on the 27th of December, So now I've marked today and I have written in March 31 "how do you feel?" if I want to call her then, I will, but not until then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LivingtheLifeinFLA

First of all the high school, is nothing but a smokescreen to shift blame. She lost interest long ago due to something. She is nothing but a liar. Now she is trying to rationize her decisions with BS statements like "it just happened", "you wen't there for me" and so on.

"She told me that she did not want to get involved with anybody else," - another lie. She has been looking for a while

And now you are BEGGING. This is a serious turnoff for women as they view that as a sign of weakness.

Next time you talk to her, tell her she is a loser and you though about it and thank god things didn't pursue further as it would have been one of the biggest mistakes you ever made in your life.

Don't call her again. I promise she will call within 2 months of NC.

Dude, this happens over and over on these boards. I have been there myself and acting like you are and it got me nowhere. Only years later did I realize how deceptive ex's can be.

There are some good girls out there, but not this one.

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It's amazing how I denied everything you said in this post, but now I can see that it's all exactly right.

There is only one thing I disagree with;
I believe that she is a good woman, and that if we both continue to grow on our own we could get together again, but only after a lot of time has passed and we learn more about ourselves, (she especially needs to grow up, I think I'm way ahead of her now). I look forward to seeing if she can get through this pattern of dependency and outgrow her issues with being so easily disappointed and her inability to express it, and I know that I have already begun to overcome my failures.

So I still believe that we have a chance. I know that it is so incredibly small that in order for it to happen I have to move on and stop wanting it or at least make her believe that I have done that. I have already started putting my life back together, I haven't slowed down at all. I'm still starting college today, and I haven't lost my job, I even started dating and I'm still going to parties and socializing, I believe that I can meet somebody to pass the time with, and maybe even start a relationship, nothing too serious though because I know I can't be there for somebody else when a part of me still wants to wait for my chance with her again. I decided today that I wouldn't cry for her anymore, she made her choices and I can't change them. All I can do is make the best of my future, and myself, if I do that than everything will work out and it will be like a bonus if one day she realizes that I'm the best guy for her, and that she lost something special when she decided not to wait for me anymore.


So all I've said brings me to this; What do I do when she calls me? I can't be cruel to her she'll see right through me. I still don't believe that she did all these things intentionally, she is on some levels aware that she does these things and she tried to tell me at different times. I don't want to hurt her, and I don't want to completely remove her from my life, I might be strong enough to be friends with her someday, and I still think she is a wonderful person, even if she will never be mine again. So how do I make her see that I'm not in love with her anymore but that I have become all the things she fell in love with before.

I'm going to answer my own question, sorry. I'm going to be myself, but I'm going to calculate how I do it. I'm going to go look for someone else, and I'm going to be happy with who I am. I'm going to do good at all the things I set my mind to, and I'm going to show her clearly that I don't need her in order to be happy. I'm not going to call her, she is going to find out when she calls me, or when I bump into her when I'm back in Hungary.

If you have any advice for the best way for me to tell her how great I'm doing without it looking like I'm trying to tell her how great I'm doing, I would really appreciate it.

Wow, I had to tell this to someone else this morning, and it applies to you also. If your so worried about something that may not happen, then you are not focused on healing. If you were, then you would already know how to answer your question, so stop playing with your own mind, and do what it takes to heal, and you will know what to do.

The frustration is getting to me, everyday I want to call her, and I come up with different things that I would say to try to influence her. And everyday I tell myself that no matter what I say she will still only think that I called because I wanted to talk to her=I need her/want her approval. Even if I call her up and say something cruel and tell her how horrible she was for me or that she's not worth my time if she can't see how good I am. I even know that some of these things are true.

I know that if she doesn't see how much I've changed and how great I am now she is NOT worth my time.

But I have to call somebody everyday or talk to different people to find the strength not to call her.

I can't stop regretting that the last time we spoke, I was in tears, and I was begging her for another chance in the future, and that the only way I could tell her that I would not wait anymore was by saying that it was too painful. I am continuously tempted to find a covert way to get her to realize that I'm not that weak person that left her in tears, I am a strong man that was hurt, and that I am a sexy smart funny person that she wants to be with.

I won't call her, but I want to find a way to make sure she knows that I am not waiting for her. I want her to think about me, I want her to wonder, and know that I'm a better person. I want her to put me on the pedestal and doubt herself. I know that the sooner she realizes this the sooner she will realize that it was a mistake to let me go. I don't have any doubts about how she feels about me, I just need her to realize that I am stronger than she thinks I am. I know she loves me and I know that she was attracted to the potential that I have come to realize, she stopped loving me because I failed in the past and she failed to wait and support me in my low state. And her biggest failure of all was her fear of being alone. When she finally realizes that I am the one for her, I will make sure she has the strength to stand on her own two feet before I take her back.

I know some of you may think that I am leading myself on or dwelling in denial, but I know her, and I know that I'm too good for her to treat me the way she did, the problem is she doesn't know it yet. She is very good at fooling herself.

I can't leave it up to chance that she will realize these important things. I have to find a way to make her see the truth.

homesick writes: "But I have to call somebody everyday or talk to different people to find the strength not to call her." Hey Dog, you've got to keep making friends, you have family, and you've got us, right?

You wrote: " I am continuously tempted to find a covert way to get her to realize...." This is what I call a mind game; talaniman has some other words for it; you get impulsive and think it is the best thing to do, and it is the worst thing you can do.

You wrote: "I have to find a way to make her see the truth." At this point you may have crossed a line in personal relations. You don't have to do anything, as they say, but die and pay taxes. Really, homesick, shouldn't she be 'off-limits'?

Sounds to me like you are doing so much better; there are peaks and valleys, but each day gets a little better.

Have you been reading some of the other topics where the guys and gals are sharing their stories? In the event you haven't, I've hotlinked a page and I would like you to read freakinconfused's reply to missinghim2much. I mean, read all this stuff because I think it will help you, as well as responding to the ideas and emotions you see and feel. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...124229-26.html

Thanks for your quick reply. I know that a great deal of my impulses are natural, and most of them come from my refusal to let her go.

But I really can't imagine myself letting her go. I did it externally when I said goodbye but I can't stand that the way I said goodbye really sounded like 'I'll never say goodbye, I'll wait for you forever.'

I may be waiting but I can live my own life and still have hopes for starting again with her.
I am living my life for myself and making decisions based on what is best for me, not for her, I am forcing myself to live, I want to date and party and make progress towards my goals, but trying again with her remains an important goal to me, and I won't lie it's still the most important, but I will not quit my job, leave school, sell all my things and fly back there to see her because that is dooming myself to failure, I am doing what I set out to do, I am becoming a man, and I am completing my tasks. When the time is right I will go back to Hungary, the time will be right when I can support myself, and have a job and school and an objective there, when my life brings me back to her, I will reach out to her, not until then, unless she reaches out to me first.


But I am impatient, I want everything now(silly aren't I)

I have been reading the other forums and they do help a lot.

Things have gotten easier, but no matter how much I heal, I know that what we had is not finished. I will not finish it until I am in a position for her to truly see how much I've changed.

I won't break it off for good by being cruel to her, and I refuse to let me drift away in her memory as another broken hearted worshiper. I am more than her servant. I am a desirable man, and I will not let this woman that I love forget about that just because I didn't make these changes in my life sooner.



The post you referred to is absolutely right, I'm not blind and I can see that I am only torturing myself. But I'm stubborn and I'm not ready to accept that she doesn't love me. I still believe that she will come back to me, not for who I was, but for the same reasons she fell in love with me in the first place; What I can be, and what I can help her to be.

I thought about it a lot, and it would be a hard talk if she called me up, I'd be extremely tempted to profess my undying devotion and tell her how I waited so long for her to call, but I know that I must be strong and make sure that she is mature enough to stick with me next time.

And as for whether she will call, she must. A bunch of my stuff is still in her flat in Hungary. I know that she will call me eventually, but I think most of all that she will wait because she is afraid that I am still hurting and still loving her. The sooner she sees that I am not weak and hurting anymore the sooner she will call and try to get close to me again. She is capable of being better than what she is now, and I love her enough to be patient and wait for that potential to come out just like my own potential has come out.


And just because I love summing things up have this,

What I said; "I'm saying goodbye because this hurts too much."

What I should have said; "I'm better than your 'backup plan' and if you can't see that your stupid, goodbye."

Good morning, homesick!

Over the past couple days, after perusing these forums and making my own comments on several, I've charted a club. Yes, A club. :) (who says we have to abandon the illustrious club phase when we grow up? ) So many of us have been through the pain of a failed relationship, the pain of having to say "you're stupid, goodbye," the pain of changing our cell phone providers, not answering phone calls/texts/voice mails, and all the other hurtful, heart-wrenching circumstances that cloud our judgement and ruin our days. So... with all that said, you are being cordially invited to join our prestigious ranks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You, homesick, have done the right thing.

By doing so, you have been chosen for membership and are hereby inducted into the Hall of Cell-phone-taker-chargers. We hereby welcome you into our ranks with open arms, a pat on the back, and an "atta boy!"

Lifetime membership has been applied and drawn in your name.

Good job.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Among our ranks are some of other hurt, wounded souls enrolled in askmehelpdesk.com. We at the HCPTC welcome you. :)

Yours is the kind of noble love that Shakespeare wrote of, the kind of love recorded on tables of stone written during the era of knights and their ladies, the kind of love that will remain, the kind of love that will sustain obstacles, knock down walls, and leap tall buildings - i.e. Superlove.

I'm not trying to make light of it at all, I'm just impressed and touched that you are willing to "be strong, still love, and take her back when she realizes" that yours is the type of love she needs... the unconditional, unfaltering, unfailing, REAL love.

Best wishes to you, homesick. I still am glad to welcome you into the HCPTC. Your support network are we. :)

Thank you Historian Chick, I wish someone would just tell her all that you just said.

I have only found a few people that support my seemingly futile quest to win her back, and it is not for lack of searching. I know the odds are stacked against me but I believe that we all make our own destiny and that some things are too good to die. Right now I just need to remember one other thing, all things come in time, and I learned before that I am very good at waiting, this is going to be a very big test for me.

I am glad to accept membership into your noble group.
Surviving heart break, I now realize, is one of the most difficult things in the world to endure, and I am proud to be one among you, I'll thank you all in advance for supporting me in my future moments of weakness when I will be tempted to contact her again.

Put a calendar on your fridge, and mark the three week time frame, then see how you feel. If you call her you are just going to reset the clock that will help you heal. She knows that you care for her and calling her will only make you revert to begging. You need to let her come to you if it ever will.

If she calls, simply ask how she's been, talk to her about school but do not bring the relationship up. Keep it short and get off the phone.

Look this is a great time to analyze the relationship by taking walks by yourself so that you can think about how YOU can make yourself better for the next relationship. Think about the mistakes and work to correct them to make yourself a better person. When you want to call her, put the cell in a drawer and take a walk.

You see, when you do this, you make yourself better for the next partner. If you don't you make the same mistakes.

I'd wait until she actually calls you or makes an otherwise conscientious attempt to talk with you (i.e. comes see you in person.) Meanwhile, start thinking about what you want to say to her now so that you'll be prepared. In short, be assertive but not hostile and let her see that you do in fact love yourself most of all and you want to be treated accordingly.

Thank you both for your advice, I will take it to heart, I've been writing a journal on my computer everyday about how I feel and what I want to say to her, and I have been crossing the days on my calandar since I said goodbye to her, my first goal is March 31st.

I have spent much time considering our relationship, and I am not being dishonest when I say her faults were very few, I analyzed my own behavior and I've found that I was not happy with who I was, and this affected her, I love myself much more now, and I am a better person with or without her. The biggest thing that I can fault her with is her hasty departure, nevertheless, I can excuse it because she did suffer with me for a long time. She is not without guilt, she did make some pretty lame excuses for her actions, but I let the situation get into bad enough shape for her to leave me. And I will not rule out the possibility that she would have left me for someone else even if I had been a stronger person after I left her alone, but I do know without a doubt that if I had been strong enough to make these changes while we were together she never would have strayed.

She has proven that she is a needy person, and she also has what you might call a short attention span, she just moves from interest to interest quite often, but she stayed with me for two years, through some really hard times, and she stayed with me when I was at my worst, the only time she stopped loving me was when things got better but I remained lazy and unmotivated.

When I was living off her, I was a parasite, no job, no school, barely a hobby and I rarely left the house, of course she got sick of me, of coarse she didn't want to make love, it hurt her and it made her feel dirty, I fault her here because she was not happy with me but she didn't go out on her own she tried to get me to go out and if I wouldn't she suffered in silence until it got to stressful for her. She felt too much pity for me to make me leave, I don't know if she held out hope that I would improve, but I believe that she did for a long time. She needs to be stronger, just like I needed to be, and it took her leaving me to realize it.

I'm better off facing adversity, it spurs on my growth. I know now that as long as I have a job I will remain active and healthy, and that I can be a complete person that doesn't rely on somebody else to keep me occupied, and that was the kind of man she needs.


I do need to think about what I'm going to say when she calls. That's tough, but it might be easy when the time comes. In any case I will let her know that I don't need her, that my life is going great, that I am taking excellent care of myself and that I want the best for her, I will leave it up to her to decide if I am the best for her, because I know that if she gets a clear picture of me her old feelings will return and she will see the man that she saw inside of me from the start, and that is who she will choose.

I hate asking why because there is no answer...

Or it's so simple that it's infuriating, why didn't I just not call her back when she said goodbye?

She was in tears, she felt guilty, she knew I deserved her, she even said that I deserved her!

Why didn't I just say goodbye hang up the phone, cry and wait for her to call back.

The simple answer is "I didn't know that's what I was supposed to do."
There are not big enough curse words for how angry that makes me.

I thought that I was recovering quickly through the longest damn week of my life, I was crying less and keeping busy, I even managed to laugh a little. But Denial is tricky and it's my favorite stage of grief so I keep going back to it, rarely the anger but always- denial-depression-denial-depression...

I don't care if I'm in denial, it feels better than acceptance, because when I'm in denial I have something to look forward to, her call, her apology, my successful return to Hungary. I even have denial about how difficult my situation is, my life is not a bed of roses. But when I think about the trials of my everyday life, compared to the pain of her leaving me, it makes it all seem like cake and ice cream. Which is good because when she calls me I can say 'everything in my life is good, except for you'.

Her leaving me is starting to make my everyday life harder, denial is not so strong now, thoughts of her distract me from my studies and pleasures, and I've been sent home a couple times from work because I was pale and couldn't stop shaking or crying.

So denial; I refuse to stop doing it, because I know that she still loves me, but it was also true what I said to her, it hurts me too much to wait for her when she is not waiting for me, she doesn't love me, she is with somebody else, she doesn't call me, it appears she has forgotten me, it looks like she never loved me, but I KNOW that she loves me and I know that she has seen the absolute worst I could ever be and still loved me. She forgave me for the selfish monster inside of me and loved me ever stronger for being brave enough to show it to her, she never left me because of how horrible and thoughtless and weak I had been in the past. She left me because I left, and when I left all she had was memories of that horrible person, she stopped seeing the light shining deep inside of me.

I can't show that light to her without her seeing that horrible person first. It's her damned memory of my failures that blinds her to my ultimate success. And she clouds her judgment with a comfortable arm to hold on to.

My day will come when I return, when somebody in her family reminds her of me, when one of our friends asks how I am doing, when she sees some of my things in our flat, looks at our pictures, reads an old message, sees a movie that gives her shivers because it was so like us. She will call and it won't be just a courtesy of asking when will I come to get my things, she will remember the light, and she will half expect to find the demon-parasite when she calls. But then I'll answer and the darkness will vanish and piercing light stronger than a thousand thousand lightning bolts will pierce her heart and she will see the god that she imagined when she looked up that first time and fell in love, and when she surprised me with a visit, when she stayed with me after my horrible mistakes, when she moved in with me, when we fell in love again and again.


This is what I tell myself, it's the only thing that keeps me going.

I don't know what I'll do when I finally see that this is a lie, I'm too afraid to kill myself. I am too afraid that in taking my own life I would move onto a hell worse than the one I am in now.

I don't want to stop believing the lie, I can believe the lie and do what I told her I would in the past, I can go be a living breathing working man, I can go sleep with other women, I can get myself a temporary girlfriend, I can go live the thrill of a life guided by only my decisions.

But I will always hold onto the day when she comes looking for the light again.

In this forum I believe that a very useful demographic is being sorely underepresented.

Where are all the girls that have taken back the guys they dumped!

I want to hear what they have to say!

Tell me what I must do!

This has been the longest week of my life, but I know that I can last until the end 2008 without contacting her.
However when I start planning my return to Hungary for the following semester it would just be silly of me not to call, I mean, she has all my stuff there!

Ok so let me lay down some new facts, I called a mutual friend of ours from Hungary today, he is her best friend's fiancé, but I believe his loyalty lies with me and all men, not the treacherous ladies. He is studying in spain right now but he was visiting on the day that I called her to say goodbye.

He told me that she told the two of them that day that i broke up with her??

I said it hurt to bad to wait for her, and that we would never speak again because I couldn't go on that way, how does that equal me breaking up with her?

I asked if she were relieved or upset, and he said both!

I'm freaking out here, I just don't know how to interpret this, I know I need to put my mind on something else but that just won't be possible for a little while.

It sounds like she is trying to make me the bad guy, and if that's what she wants she has already succeeded! I can't win!

What the hell does she think I am now? The nice guy that won't stand in the way of her happiness, or the hurt guy that has to let go, or the angry guy who doesn't put up with unfaithfulness? Why the hell can't I just make her see me as the God like superman that she saw in me so long ago? I'm doing everything right for me but I just have no ability whatsoever to influence her in anyway!

Crap I just want her to break under the pressure, the relationship can't be that good! I don't want to wait until I'm moving back to Hungary before I know whether she regrets leaving me, because I know she will eventually but I am sick of waiting for her to break up with some dude to figure out how much I'm worth to her!

I know, I know, 'it sounds like she's not worth it if she let you go so easy' right?
But that's the thing, she didn't want to let me go, and she doesn't want me back, I hate being in this freaking limbo!

All it would take would be her seeing me, she wouldn't even have to see me with another woman! Just to see that I am not a ghost, I'm not a phantom that won't let go of the past, I'm a grown man dammit, that's all she needed from me!

Impossible I'm here, and she's there, I'm focusing on my future, and she can't see past the next 5 seconds, she wanted to get laid, she got it, she wanted to have a new boyfriend, she got it, she wanted to talk to me, SHE IS NOT GETTING IT. She wanted me to love her and wait forever, she got that (dammit).

I only wish she could feel the strain that I am under, I don't have a new lover, if we both had a box labeled "responsibilities" her's would contain a sandwich, and mine a starving Bengal tiger.

Where is the damn justice?





I'm sorry I just have to let it out.

Oh homesick... I'm so sorry. I wish I could give you the ingredients of the elusive heart-mending elixer, but sadly, it eludes me, too. I wish I could tell you how to forget the pain and sorrow, to forget the hurt and the betrayal, to truly let yourself heal... but those answers, those solutions, can only be found within your own heart.

Its raining outside today. Whenever it rains and I feel depressed, I'm reminded of that little kids movie "Earnest Goes to Camp." (yes, another kids movie - I'm a wealth of Hollywood quotes) There was a short, little song at the beginning of the movie when Earnest goes out walking in the rain... "I'm so glad its raining, cause no one sees the teardrops when they fall." Sometimes, rain is just what we need. Dance in the rain, Darlin. Go out and stand in it. "Let the rain kiss you. Let the rain beat upon your head with silver liquid drops. Let the rain sing you a lullaby." (Langston Hughes)

You have a support network, homesick, as evidenced by your friend in Hungary/Spain. You have a forum of thousands of unknown people who feel your pain, understand your feelings of betrayal, and yes, share in your hope for a reconciliation. No one can convince her that you are her "happily ever after" but her. She is living in "conveniences" - you are living in reality. She is wanting a quick roller coaster thrill, you are offering a lifetime pass to Disneyland. She is choosing a Ford... you're offering an Aston Martin.

All this to say, don't sell yourself short. Revel in your moments. Let each moment shine as a spectrum of color, imprinting its rainbow rays on your life... Live in each breath, don't worry about the next, but truly revel in your today's. I don't know how to tell you to do this, but I'll pray that you are able to find the key to momentary living in your own personal way.

Good luck, homesick... Keep your chin up.

Kevin: "Hey, I'm not afraid anymore! I said I'm not afraid anymore! Do you hear me? I'm not afraid anymore!"

Thanks so much HC, your consolation comes at a time when I am feeling ready to take your advice.

I had a revelation today, it's a lot more complicated than this, but I can say it simply;

It's OK for me to be happy without her!

I still have her in the back of my mind, but I have new horizons to explore, and believe it or not it looks like I've got a date later this week, and I'm actually excited about it. I have myself esteem back, I don't just have to tell that to myself anymore, I really believe it 100%, not 95% or 98%, 100%.

My life is going extraordinarily well, there are hiccups here and there, but I have become master of myself at last! I can be happy, and the secret is so simple; I just have to choose to be happy. I could never believe that it could be so easy.

This must be what it feels like after taking a line of cocaine!

I know that song and I loved that, I'm not kidding, that was my favorite part of that movie. And I just remembered it has, "So Happy Together" in that movie too. That was 'Our Song' sure we had a few others, but I think that one was really ours.

Everything really feels like it's going right now, and I can appreciate it. She may be getting further away from me, but that doesn't matter now, now is not the time for me to parade back into her life, that will come later, right now is the time for me to do what we talked about before, I have live my life. And it's really getting good now.

I can still love her and not need her, I can enjoy my freedom, I'm going to finally meet somebody cool and I hope I'll have a good time with her, I'm really getting interested in my college classes, and my job is a joke but it has made me a sexy working class hero.

A lot of things happened today too. All of them happened after I started feeling good, most of them happened while I was writing this or just before. I got a short note and a recipe that I asked her parents for. The possible date I mentioned sent me her phone number and seems excited about meeting me. My ex logged onto to skype yesterday and just now for the first time in awhile, and I don't assume she's looking for me, but it is reassuring none the less, because usually, she only uses skype or email when she has a lot of extra time.

I know I shouldn't gloat, but I started feeling great hours ago before I saw her come online, when I finally saw and believed all the mistakes she made. I can see now that she really misjudged me and I forgave her before I understood that, now I see what I forgave her for.

I really understand what people are saying now when they tell a dumpee "she is not worth your time if she doesn't love you"
I never believed that even before I knew what love was, but now I get it, it doesn't have to be an absolute but it is true, if she doesn't love me now, I can spend my time and emotions on myself, later when the time is right I can invest in her again if I choose.

Wow this feels great.

I'm proud of you.

Take that beautiful date for a drive in your new Aston Martin life... I'm sure she'll love it! :)

Make your moments shine!

I forgot to say earlier, you have a gift for words, you and everybody else here has really helped me gain perspective on my situation, I wouldn't be as well off as I am now if you guys hadn't told me how it was and how it is.

I'm finally excited about this year, it's not going to be work it's going to be like a year long bachelor party.

Well without the strippers and a lot less alcohol, and no donkey shows.

Damn I'm such loser... I seem to be bipolar. I knew I would feel down really soon but I messed things up.

Couldn't get a hold of the new girl today, no big deal, I didn't make a fool of myself or anything, but I noticed that my ex was was still on skype tonight when I got home, not a big deal right? Well my stupid curiosity was killing me, it was nearly two in the morning for her, she must be talking to somebody, I should have left it alone, that didn't make me jealous or anything it was just weird, so I changed my status from invisible to online, and within seconds she appeared to log off...

Could have just been the system catching the fact that she was off already, probably not, I imagine she saw me come on and got spooked and either turned invisible, or logged off, but I'm not sure if she knows how to change her status on there.

Now what am I doing, I'm over analyzing it torturing myself, and just freaking out over nothing.

Was I just in denial again today, I thought I hit a milestone how do I go back so fast to being so miserable.

It's because I can't stop myself from reading her damn mail box, every time I get a tiny hint about her relationship with him, it makes more questions and more doubts and more images in my head that make me wan to put an icepick in my brain to dig them out.

I can't believe that I keep doing this to myself, I was so confident that no matter what happens I can wait a year before approaching her again, but now I'm afraid to see her until I redeem myself for all this spying bull and all this wimpy wussy weak assclown garbage I've been doing to make myself hurt more. I can't drop her, I can't forget about her, even if I stop all this nonsense, but I really need to stop doing this friggin torture to myself.

Why can't I trust myself, I already know I can't trust her, why do I want to keep looking at the evidence, I'm just making everything worse, not just on myself, but I'm going to have to fess up one day. Jesus I hate myself for that, I'm so good at taking care of myself and everything else, but this one damn link that I have left to her is destroying my whole world. And it's not even her doing it to me, it's me doing it to myself, I'm still very sick. What do I do.