Self-judgment costs extra. What are you learning? When you just stay neutral and look, what do you see in yourself? Aside from being an attention magnet, what are you getting from continuing his?Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Tao
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Self-judgment costs extra. What are you learning? When you just stay neutral and look, what do you see in yourself? Aside from being an attention magnet, what are you getting from continuing his?Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Tao
Everyone has their ups ad downs when going through this process. You're not alone. I've been doing well over the past 9 months. I still have times of weakness and sadness. The amount of time that I spent feeling this way has gone from days to a minute every so often. I still think about things, but not nearly has much as I did even 2 months ago.
It takes time. Just give yourself the time you need to heal and get all of the painful emotions out. You will get better and become happy.
That's not stupidity. That's love. That's what billions of women want from a man and you gave yours to one who screwed it up. She's the stupid one. Do not start talking to yourself like that because you, everybody here, and I know it's not true so don't lie to yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Sure you were grasping. Tal, Tao, AJ, JMW, and myself have all been there grasping for any hope but speaking from somebody who's grasped and gone back I can tell you, you are better off continuing the journey to peace without her. Look at all she's caused, and for no real reason other then her own selfishness.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
In you last post you wrote about about grasping for straws that were razor blades. Is she worth the pain of the grasp? I don't think she is and I think you know it on a logical level but you emotions are still raw and clouding you some. But you wouldn't let her slice you with razor blades so you don't and shouldn't slice yourself by going backwards.
I have to be honest, I disagree with you. Feel like crap? You should be feeling pretty good about yourself. It wasn't you that caved in. It wasn't you that sent a one sided message. It wasn't you begging to find out how she's doing. No sir. She's the one who got a hard lesson in who was stronger between you two, and the answer was obviously you. Don't feel like crap for winning this game with her, because in this game of who's stronger and who won't break contact you whipping her sorry a$$.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Maybe but since she contacted you and not vice versa she's under the water in the river at the bottom of the mountain, so she's farther down then you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
You are free now. You may still have memories of her, but you freedom is available to you now.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
You have this all backwards. She's the weak one, contacting you because she knows she screwed up and she wants to make herself feel better. You are the strong one resisting the drug of love who's looking it and responding to her and saying I can fight on.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Lame no. Not even close. Going from strong to weak? More like going from strong to stronger while she goes from weak to weaker desperately calling you while drowns in the river as you hike up that mountain.
Van, please start seeing yourself for how I, and if I may speak for the other posters, everyone else start seeing you. Strong as hell, determined, committed, smart, and tough as sh!t if the face of emotional turmoil and still going. This entire thread from the OP to now has been nothing but a strong man getting stronger, but you have to start seeing it because it's there and if you just look.
Thanks chuff for the king words & support.
I appreciate it very much & it helps.
Feeling pretty numb & wiped out today. Didn't realize that email would affect me so much.
I guess sometimes I forget and deny how self absorbed she is, and continues to be whether its towards me or anyone else.
But know that's in the past & I have jumped over another hurdle.
Everyday is different & I'm trying the best I can.
Read what chuff said. Take those words to heart, because they are true. You feel week only because of what happened. Keep your head up bro! You're a lot stronger than you think. Hell, you're a lot strong than me. I caved and broke NC...you didn't and I applaud you for that.
Give yourself time. It part of the grieving and healing process. You are dealing with a heavy loss. It's only natural to feel this way. Stay positive and keep moving toward your future. Try and think about all of the things you can do for yourself now that you are FREE!! You don't need her to accomplish anything in your life. You can put all of your time, resources, and energy to things that you want, and not have to split it up for anyone else (if you don't want to).
Cheers, jmw.
I'm just doing what I think is right. Mostly from everyone's help here.
Don't know what I would do otherwise.
Trying to separate my mind from my heart.
Thanks so much these past couple days...
Not a problem. That's why we are here, to help others that have to go through this BS.
Here is a thread that I think you should read through... just to get you in the right frame of mind to move forward.
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...le-335663.html
Thanks,
I've read that one. Funny.
I just wrote down all of the reasons I thought from her perpsective of why she emailed me. Had 30 or so scenarios down. Had to laugh at a few...
Then summed them up & looked at byron katie's 4 questions.
Could I truly believe any was true/had proof? Nope.
Does it matter? Nope.
What was REAL is that she emailed me looking for a green light to call me. Am I going to give her that? Nope.
Am I learning to move on? Yup.
You are in the right frame of mind!
When you start feeling weak and wanting to break NC, just come back to this thread and re-read what is said here, and vent. It will get you back to thinking positively and back to what you know you need to do. Plus you will have all of us picking you back up and brushing you off.
I know I will be back to vent.
Isn't going to break NC though...
Strong getting stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Hey,
Its been a couple weeks.
Ive been keeping busy, exercising, socializing, etc.. Had some nice times.
Also, have had some teary & low breakdowns and sadness, feelings of rejection and such.
But have been plowing.
What's been hard lately is that I am still thinking about her & this daily. Its in a way way been maddening. I go from feeling sick to hate, wonder & still writing notes to help myself. Everyday has been different & try & resolve my thoughts before I sleep. In whatever way I feel helps. Im trying so hard.
I get so mad now that I am dwelling on this. I want it to stop. Sometimes I yell at myself to stop. I wish there was some magic pill I could take to remove her from my thoughts.
I know that Im being strong & doing the right things, but don't in any way feel like myself. This sucks. NC is one of the hardest things Ive had to do.
She tried to call me yesterday on my cell, no message though. I know she's coming into town this next week or next. And I know I shouldn't even care if that's why.
Need a bit of advice on how to help myself to stop, or at least stop dwelling. Even I know know that my thoughts of her are just memories, and not really about her physically. I awake to this & my nights are filled with these thoughts. I want more than anything to move on.
Thanks for listening once again.
Van
BTW,
Read this in the "Open letters to my ex" post. Has helped the past few days.
I know Ive written dozens in my mind, some on paper & never sent. Still do in my mind.
This should be a sticky in itself:
Dear ex,
You may wonder why I am writing to you now. There are things that I deserve to say to you regardless of whether you will hear them or not.
You treated me very badly indeed and when you walked away you showed no concern, remorse or guilt for the way that you behaved.
I think you're probably the most immature, selfish, cowardly and irresponsible person I have ever had the misfortune to meet.
You lied to me, you showed no respect for me and worst of all you kicked me hard when I was down.
I say these things to you now with no desire for reconcilliation, as I can think of nothing I would like less.
I am simply exercising the right to express myself which you denied me when we broke up.
You have showed yourself in a very bad light indeed and I now understand fully why you don't like yourself very much.
You are cold and callous and you played games with someone who showed you nothing other than love and respect.
The only mistakes I made during our relationship were to treat you like an adult and place my trust in you.
You are, to put it simply, a horrible person.
I wish you luck with the denial and fabrication that is your life.
Ironically, if I were to send this letter, I would be giving you the gift of justification.
You are unworthy of my attention and I have no desire to give you anything more, so it will remain unsent.
I would guess that this speaks to everyone that has loved & been dumped.
It's good to hear from you, Van, even though I am sorry to learn that your struggle continues.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
As I see it, you are always at a decision point: you can go out or you can go in. If you conclude that the source of your anguish is outside of yourself, specifically her, then denigrating her as best you can might be the solution. The open letter does this pretty well.
If you conclude instead that your pain will subside and maybe disappear altogether if you go deeper within yourself, find the source and transform it, then further inner work awaits you. In this case, you might also decide that stomping her in your mind is a feel-good-now-behavior, but an unproductive distraction from the real work in the long run.
You might also take inventory of what you are doing for yourself: What's working? What's not working? What's missing?
Tao
Your plan of healing needs tweaking, to get through those alone moments. How are you sleeping?
Thanks.
I will try & take a harder look at what's working & not. I agree, bashing her seems to only help briefly.
Tal, no not great sleeps. Usually awake really early, up for an hour or so, then crash again.
Its important for good sleep to balance your day, your eating habits and activities. Not only will this help the body functioning well in a few key areas, but makes for better sleep cycles. That helps the brain, and keeps the energy level up. QUALITY sleep cycles are as essential as eating.
Paying attention to those small things add up.
Im trying.
Do all three categories: working, not working, missing. The third is the most generative, and you need to generate something that you haven't identified yet: the remaining steps to freedom from this suffering, steps you can take and be through with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
You did some good work during the process, had some revealing dialog, got in touch with your inner self a bit. I get the impression that as soon as you started feeling a little better and could socialize, you stopped that work. Is that correct?
If so, I understand. Without ongoing guidance and raw determination to build the required skills for finishing the job—being completely free from your pattern of suffering in this particular way— it's hard to continue the work. Resolution seems far away.
But you have all that you need to solve this, to be done with this, within you. If you indeed "want more than anything to move on," you might be motivated to get back into your innards and process some more, which I recommend. You will find levels. Reach the requisite level and the conversation you will have with yourself will be pivotal.
Tao
Thanks Tao,
I wouldn't say I stopped, but maybe haven't been as dilligent and forgetting some key things. I will try & work harder.
Don't try to work harder! Don't even go in that direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Instead, do the inventory on those three questions. Let that give you insight. Once you have some of that, I suggest a new approach. This is because I doubt you will remember what to do with the original procedure or know how to take it to its conclusion.
This time, do some prep work—breathing, etc— and BE the part of you that hurts (Yes, I know that this is difficult, but it's a source of energy right now.) and let your desire to be out of pain draw you into the work. Just let go to it. Let it pull you into a dialog.
Then you can alternately be both the part that hurts and the conscious mind, you as you know yourself to be. Take turns and speak in both voices. You can even switch chairs and take on each persona. Have fun with it. Experiment and explore role playing. Take on the role of every part that talks to you. You want to continue what is working, stop what is not working, and invent, import (learn), or imagine what is missing suddenly being there.
The goal is the same as before: Find out what you are getting from this drawn out pattern, and, if you agree that you need it, find other ways to get it, ways that don't include suffering over this relationship any longer.
Tao
Thanks, tao,
I will do the inventory and listen.
I often tell people, its not what life throws at you, its how you cope with it. We all get knocked down, but it's the ones who keep getting up, that succeed.
Tao is right, an honest self inventory is what will give you a path to where you want to be.
I have no doubt you can do this, and be successful.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I will let you know what I discover...
Van, I have been here. I have yelled at myself for giving thoughts to the ex and I have yelled at myself for past behaviors that seem so ridicules once the moment has passed. Sometimes it can feel like temporary insanity when you keep having thoughts about someone who wronged you and all you ever wanted was the best for them. But that's just it, if you want to give your best to someone and they are unwilling or incapable of being at your level of giving to them then you don't deserve them.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
I can't give you a magic pill other then to tell you that when those thoughts pop up I constantly say "There will be something good to come from this, find it." If you tell your brain something good will come of this then your brain will start seeking out answers to it. Sometimes loss really isn't loss when you look back later and realize what you gained from the experience. Sometimes you don't see what your getting in the moment but later you realize you got more from a bad situation then you would have ever got if things stayed the same.
Thanks Chuff, you have it pegged.
As a freelancer, I spend a lot of time alone & its been challenging not to dwell especially at night.
Went to the beach today & did a lot of soul searching & thought that I have lived these past 2 months without her & have done what Ive been able to do to heal. I didn't jump off that bridge as I felt a month ago & realize that time & good thoughts are on my side. I just need to let go of her and I feel like Im still grasping at times. Not sure what for exactly.
Once again your statement of turning a negative thought around helps.
You are right, sometimes when you are in that moment & thoughts are bouncing around it snowballs & becomes hard to stay clear & focused. Hopefully I can learn to better control these feelings when these thoughts pop-up. I don't wish to dwell anymore on her or this breakup. I don't want to feel pain anymore.
I appreciate yours and everyone's advice
You shouldn't sweat it man, this is just a setback you were going through. I felt like I was struggling to breathe, like I was already dead inside. It will get a lot easier in time. I felt exactly like you and have went (and still going) through everything you are. It's been nearly 3 months since I started NC and things have gotten a LOT better for me. Be patient my friend, you will shed that skin and find yourself refreshed.
Thanks aj.
I am a very patient person. Im way better than a few weeks ago. Im just taking each day as a learning experience, as tough as it may be. I can't wait until I feel like myself again & am able to finally close the door on this. Sometimes I feel like so much time has already passed & Ive been wasting it dwelling on someone I know doesn't deserve me. Weird.
Van, you've made so much progress in the short time you've come here, if you look at some of your first posts to now you can see the difference. Give yourself some more time and some more growth and your going to be even stronger and better. Getting back to your base is actually great for you because it will get you in touch with yourself again and not the person who is kind of "floating" at times. Don't forget to give yourself credit, you've gone through hell and you deserve credit for finding the road out and taking it. Some people never do or some people wait hoping for something to get better when it never will. You took action and are still taking it. You've done a great job, got some new friends, gained some new insight, learned about the true you, got life lessons and grown as a individual. You really have gained from this experience, but you have to frame it correctly and recognize it for your brain to accept it.
Chuff, I appreciate that very much.
I feel that Ive been strong, see it, but I think don't believe it for some reason. Maybe because I still experience setbacks. Maybe I am waiting for full recory to realize that.
I was writing the days of NC on my calendar & stopped at 49, (I was actually sick of being reminded of it) but wrote down the 60 day mark with a note that said "How strong are you?"
I can honestly say that without the help here on my thread, Im not sure what I would have done. Really shows the importance of NC and the unselfish and caring advice exhibited here.
Thanks for this.
Happy to point out the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
I can relate. I don't know if I can explain it. But I know when I've been in your spot I could see with some clarity and realize how much better I was and what I was gaining but still not accept it. I think that is the part of you that that is still grasping wanting her to realize she made a mistake and come back. When you can finally put that part away or talk some sense into it or just give it more time you can move forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
I used to get mad at myself for always thinking about an ex and I just started talking to myself when I was angry and asked, "Is this really helping?" "Why do the thoughts of her continue to come up?" What am I gaining by continuing to think of her?" I mean I actually have a conversation with my brain and start throwing questions back looking for answers. I think that can help you. Having said that, you were in a 5 year relationship and you are only a couple of months removed, you have to give yourself some time and accept this is a sudden and shocking life change. Nothing wrong with that, but don't let it bother you that the thoughts are still there as this is a realitively fresh and quite honestly a new experience.
You didn't call her. You didn't send an email. You saw her silence and dealt it right back harder then she could even when she needed to steal some of your strength with contact to appease her own selfish needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
How strong are you? Stronger then her.
I wish I had a forum like this myself when I was younger. I've learned so much from this board. Honestly, I've learned so much from this thread. It isn't just us giving you, it's all of us getting something.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Thanks,
Ive asked myself the very same questions when I think of her. You're right about talking some sense to yourself. As tao said "what am I doing?" or "what am I gaining from this"
Sometimes when you talk I think that you and others are right inside my head.
Im so glad that Im not going through this alone.
Van
We're all learning. It's gratifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
OMG
When I read this, I got choked up.
Then realized that how gratifying this whole experience has been for me and can be. Not only here.
Pretty revealing. Tao, you have such a way.
When I posted again, felt weird & needy & honestly wondered if you guys could help me more. Didn't want to rely on you. Felt weak. But once again...
I have friends who I might not see for 5-10 years at a time; but when we connect long-distance, we are simply there for each other. These are powerful, competent people who recognize areas in themselves that need outside support, intervention, sometimes interruption, emotional nourishment, catalysis and more. I feel that way myself, and welcome their contributions to my well being.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
To rely on such friends is not the same as being needy. Needy usually means that a person will suck up all the free energy other people have to give and do nothing with it. Needy people need to get energy and attention, but "getting" is where they stop. Getting satisfies them for a moment, assuages the wounded beast within and puts it to sleep. They have no idea about how to receive from another and to grow what they received into something greater, then to bring it back to the originator as shared nourishment.
Without this sharing, we are like the guys who love the "chase" of getting a girl, the idea of "conquest," but who fail to show up for any kind of sustained relationship. In that pattern, our "relationship" is with a story, a metaphor of conquest embedded in our minds. Having a real relationship with another human being, as you know well, involves risk and loss and personal transformation; we know that when we dare to love another, we will be emptied out before Life fills us up again. It takes guts.
That's why it is important that you keep communicating with us, letting us know your status and process until your problem is as solved as it is going to get. We might not get you squeaky clean, but we will stand by you for as long as it takes for you to be no longer suffering unnecessarily. Then, we each look in the mirror and, seeing our resemblance to you, we grow.
Tao
Thanks.
I will be back.
Just got this email from my ex...
"Hi, i am coming to Vancouver next week and would really love to see you. I get there thursday next week and leave tuesday.
No matter what i write feels wrong... but i hope you will see me, i hope we can talk.
love"
I won't respond or see her, but I can't help this making me feel awful.
Not sure what she wants at this point.
I suppose if she wanted to say something heartfelt or whatever, she would have done so already. I can't be her friend anymore.
Just when I think its getting easier, it feels harder.
Great step forward! A lot of people would have caved at that e-mail. You are standing your ground, be proud of yourself here!
Thanks, but not feeling too proud right now.
Feel sick to my stomach & shaking.
I hate that these emails effect my so much.
Sucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Did you catch what I caught. Read it again then focus on the red part that I conviently highlighted. Someone's feeling guilty. She's not looking to get back together but she is looking for you to make her feel not guilty by confirming you will meet with her, or at the very least respond to the email.
The best thing you can say to her is silence.
Also, can't you block her emails?
You have no reason to feel awful for anything. If anything you should feel pride that you are not as weak as she is, and you are stronger then she gave you credit for.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
What she wants is to know that you will say "it's okay that you dumped me." Not in those words, but she's looking to give you some of her guilt for the pain caused.
She gave up the right a long time ago. Exercise your right to hold her to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Or just when you thought you had the strength you would need, she challenged you and you became even stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
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