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I guess what I am starting discover is that for her, the hunt and the conquest is more valuable and exciting as the actual person. After that it diminishes until the next source of supply. And because I gave the support & love, I fed enough supply until that wasn't enough.
What I'm starting to discover about you is that you have an abundance of support and love to give that grows and she ran out of being able to accept it because she had no idea how. I feel sort of bad for her, to know that women everywhere want what you have to offer and at some level she probably does too, but has no idea how to be loved. She ran out of ways to be loved and accepted and coasted for as long as she could until she realized she could no longer pretend because she wasn't good enough for what you had to offer. She'll go for the next "conquest" and fail again and again and fail again and again, just like she did with you. She may have been the dumper, but that doesn't mean she's the one in control of herself and her emotions like you are starting to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
That's exactly right on & difficult to grasp this personality disorder. My guess, for her that there is always the chance of finding that ideal person and she believes that she deserves that. To feel like she is missing out on something else when not fulfilled or restless or when she experiences the thrill of newer supply like that ego boost for that agent, which to her was a challenging conquest that she bagged. Then she was given the drive & justification to eliminate me. My guess is that in her mind, I was already out of the picture and she could justify a fling. Nice one, huh?
Believe me, finding out all of this stuff since has not been pleasurable. I run past conversations with her in mind head, even our last ones. (which is guess normal) I recall times when she was feeling high & mighty or when I woul go up against her & would say things like "Well, I told you, never date a stylist" or "Why dont you go out with some rock n roll chick, then" I guess what I found out was "Never date a Narcissist"
Just wanted everyone that I am making headway, and thanks to all of you, every word. (Ive read them over and over, along with your other posts for others.) Went to a pal's soccer match & had fun, working hard to not feel like it was a distraction. It was nice. When I left, even though the niceness, got a bit sad in a way, at first because I felt so happy that I had such close friends, then because I wasn't really sure what to next or wanted to make that trip to find out. I drove home, checked your posts, then decided to force myself to work. Which I did amongst lapses in thought, posts and emotional distractions. Needless to say, I completed that looming project deadline and went through every action in my head sometimes verbal, as if I were teaching the process to myself. I actually did this in half of the time it generally takes me. After that I started getting excited about putting into action tai's suggestions and while doing so, helped myself with the analogy re: your inner self is a computer with applications (parts) all at your disposal. Some you rely on more than others. I wrote down the names of all the apps & even the utilities that I knew played their particular role. Some I recognized & new that they were there, but paid no attention to them. I have probably jotted down about 200 very critically, making matches, rating them in similar categories. Almost in different folders, hidden or not. Wow, Im sounding nerdy now. Now I can start to see how they work together and most have their negative counterpart that also serve a purpose, all the regard if you choose to use them. Its mot so much that my drive isn't big enough, or that I need a reboot, although important sometimes. Its about to understand what purpose those parts serve and know how to utilize them. Not only now but in everything. Its really about being the "user"
I am grateful beyond my own belief. The next step is to towards awareness. Thanks today.
Just woke up after a series of bad nightmares about her, worst ones yet & feeling pretty down. I know Im making progress, but can't seem to get it together in times like these. I wish I could erase her from my mind. I guess Im still pretty shocked. Sorry I seem to have some goods hours, then turn around & feel like jumping off a bridge.
Dude, it is a literal emotional roller coaster. There were times when I found myself laughing one minute and crying the next. You are normal, and human, and it is understandable. It takes a lot of time. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
This sucks. I feel so weak right now, like I am pretending to make some progress..
AndQuote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
We are with you, which I am sure you feel, and your roller coaster is the same make and model as many of ours. Keep working. The self-torture will end, and you will emerge from this a more conscious, happy, and healthy human being.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
It's great that you have been playing with the sorting and organizing of your inner resources. Have fun with that. Get your nerd on, all the way. All the time you spend in your neurospace can contribute to the resolution of your suffering. You are building an inner "workshop" where you can think, reflect, discover, invent, design, access resources, and build methods with which to manage your emotional and relational experience, and catalyze your growth. All your artistic skills and instincts can apply here.
After you have built some inner space in which to work, the next step is to "be like a radio." Don't search around like a sleuth with a flashlight, or a repair man. The sleuth uses a flashlight to expose something he suspects might be there; it is an active process. The repair man fixes broken stuff. You are not broken, no matter what you feel. If you approach yourself with surgical tools in hand, your inner mind will mount resistance that you can't circumvent.
A radio, by contrast, is passive; it receives signals that are being broadcast and converts them to useful sounds. It has no opinion of its own, just the content of its broadcasters, which are your parts. Staying close to the radio model, you can take a curious stance, but not more eager than that. While you desperately want to resolve this situation, you will do more if you take the position of neutrality, as if you didn't care and nothing mattered. I know how hard this is, but you can do it.
You might have already realized that the end of your suffering isn't about logic or an objective explanation being presented to you and to which you can respond. It's about getting familiar enough with your inner self (selves) that they allow you access to the place in which you can hear/see/feel what is really going on within you and resolving it. You have enough reasons to drop this person from your heart, but some part of you keeps hitting the hot button and it is in your interest to communicate directly or indirectly with that part. (Indirect communication opens a whole new study, which works but we don't need here)
Remember that healing is a natural process and all we are attempting to do is to accelerate the process. While the part we are interested in is still struggling, other parts are busily engaged in repairing, learning, and updating your mental software. Many years of experience (I started this sort of work in 1960) tell me that you have all the resources within you that you need to learn your way through this. Just keep a steady but gentle hand on the tiller and your senses open to the movement of your heart.
Your nightmares provide a wealth of information, all of which can be useful. What do you think of writing them down and posting them? You can control who sees them if you want, but they can give you a lot of info. Some dream interpretation ideas:
- We dream to sort through experiences and make sense of them, as well as to reinforce learning. Repeated dreams signify unlearned or unfinished business.
- All the characters—people, animals, anything sentient—in your dreams represent parts of you. Nothing in your dreams represents a foreign element. The way they interact depicts a metaphorical example of the way the parts of your mind are interacting.
- You can influence your dreams by telling your "dream manager" (I just made that up) that you want to learn from dreaming and asking that they become more obvious and revealing. Do this just before sleep.
- You can keep a pad and pen by your bedside and tell yourself that you will awaken when a significant dream occurs, and write it down. Make sure that you write everything in clear language, not just shorthand or trigger words that you think will remind you of the dream. (I made that mistake once, and woke the next morning to find "alarm clock" and "cheese" on the notepad.) The next day, try to reconstruct the dream, or at least visualize and communicate with the parts of the dream, which are all parts of you.
During your waking hours, spend quality time in your workshop. Throw a Parts Party and invite every one of your inner selves to come. Listen, ask questions, just get comfortable having your mind reveal itself to you through this visualization. And, yes, you are making it all up; or are you?
The magic moment will arrive when the part of you that agonizes and obsesses over her tells you what he does for you by making all that occur. Your task at that moment will be to thank him, and invite him to update his method so you can have what he gives you but in ways that only bring you joy and gratitude. It might take a few more steps but that moment will arrive.
Tao
Thanks Tal,
I like the idea of position of neutrality. Hope I can get there.
Sure, I don't mind posting that dream:
The last dream as I recall took place in a restaurant back in NY.
I was passing through the hallway when I came upon a group of my ex's family and others. A couple of them seemed really uncomfortable, but I was greeted and hugged by a few too. As I turned around, my ex was entering the room dressed in a sexy dress and confidently swaggering in almost a slutty way acting as if she didn't see me, kind of laughing. When she realized I started to step up to talk to her, she dove behind a chair. I pull the chair aside, she looked terrified. I said "Remember me?" She stood up, pulled her composure together and said simply "Nope", went around the table to be seated with her group.
I exited the restaurant & as I peered through the series of windows, she would shift back & forth to hide & avoid me seeing her through the glass.
That's all that I can recall..
So how do you interpret this dream, taking as a given that all the people are parts of you?Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
And, dude, it's tao with an ao. See? I said that you would forget...
No biggie. Just get back to work... dream hint: What part of you feels uncomfortable being loved? Recognized? Beautiful? (not meaning effeminate)
Sorry again, Tao for the misspell...
I will have to think about that.
Thanks.
Last night, I analyzed my dream that caused me so much pain. I deconstructed every detail and recognized what each "part" was communicating. I not going to list them all here.
Some were obvious and I felt better that these "parts' where coming to the surface. I started to get a bit frustrated as to try to connect all of them. Then this morning, BAM.
What I discovered that in my frustration in trying to communicate with these parts and how to invite them, I realized that they were saying "Hey, I hear you want to have that meeting after all, Were ready." And they did this through that dream. I got what I was asking for.
I believe that this dream was trying to help me look at, understand, and deal with rejection, fear of that, insecurities. How to listen to that "radio" and not to bother trying to use the "flashlight" anymore. Not to fight it, but accept and become more aware.
I thought of another analogy that helps me to recognize and utilize these "parts". That is one of a guitar tuner. Boy, has my guitar been way out, probably for quite some time.
I even wrote a dream for fun that mirrored mine and spun it around 180, to make it a positive one in which I felt no pain or anxiety in. I was almost neutral or indifferent in that dream in terms of outcome, in fact in the dream I was having quite a lot of fun. (thanks chuff, I haven't forgotten your earlier posts re: spinning negatives around)
What Im starting realize is this dream/life is MINE, not HERS. Never to be sacrificed again.
Thanks, Tao for helping me better understand that process.
Yeah, Boye! You're right on the money!Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Everything you describe is on the path to freedom. Your guitar analogy is perfect. We all get out of tune, and many of us don't even suspect that self-tuning is possible. By tuning yourself you enable yourself to get unstuck from this pattern of sacrifice (important topic to be explored) and to spot it the next time it starts to run its algorithm, interrupt it, and reframe it at the next level.
You wrote: "...How to listen to that "radio" and not to bother trying to use the "flashlight" anymore..."
In this exercise, you are the radio! Neutral, silent, unattached to any position or result, receptive, able to faithfully carry the message from within without distortion. Then, you are you, the conscious mind who responds to the messages of your inner mind and offers the opportunity to update each part's function while resolving your issues. It's a mutual win.
Critically Important
Everyone who gets this far feels frustration. You are suffering and you want the part of you that makes you suffer to stop. But if you express your frustration, or impatience, or any form of disdain, you will be feeding conflict instead of rapport. In such a state, you get nowhere. You must manage yourself so that your voice is calm, your tempo (rate of movement in the dialog) matches that of the part with which you are communicating—don't rush—and your respect for whatever your parts tell you is palpable.
I have worked with hundreds of people who go inward and ask what their "problematic" part is doing for them or getting for them. They ask, then wait, then a reply comes, and then they shake their heads and say "It couldn't be THAT." Invariably, it is that, and that doesn't fit themselves image, so they reject it. Or, they ask and sit and wait for an answer. Muscles twitch, pictures flash before their mind's eye, emotions arise, and, not hearing a voice in their mind, they open their eyes and say "Nothing happened." A lot happened, but it wasn't what they expected, and being stuck there, the can't decipher the message.
You haven't made those mistakes. Looks like dreaming is a good medium for you. Stay open to other possibilities. As you get better at this, more tuned, more aware and sensitive, you might get a wide variety of inputs from your deep unconscious.
You are in the neighborhood of resolution. Your fear of rejection and sense of insecurity are the motivators (remember intention--method--outcome) and dealing with these feelings is central to your method (Is it self-sacrifice?" Only your inner self can know.). What appears to be very clear is that you are on the threshold of finding new ways to function.
Most important, this has nothing to do with her. It is about you, how you organized your mind to cope with life, what patterns you employ and how well they work, and about you can bring up to date a variety of functions within yourself. In your dream, it was fun. Let it be fun all the time, even when you address your deepest fears. For the parts of you who have been longing to communicate with you for years, it will be.
Tao
Thanks so much tao, all so well communicated. Appreciate that. Its continuing to help, even at this moment...
Tao, wanted to say that Ive been getting so many signs and experiencing so much synchronicity today in everything. Ive had some signals in the past few days & recognized them, seems like the floodgates are open. More and more parts are asking to have a chat. Its great.
Im starting to realize not to suppress anything, even Im telling myself to spot putting energy towards her. Even if I know that thought may seem negative, it brings clarity & may bring another part to chime in.
Ive told the parts that Im happy to have them in my room.
Had been jotting notes to myself during all of this, they have been increasingly more focused. One I wrote a couple days ago stated: "This is the only favor she ever did for you" Its true, and realizing that I am grateful. Didn't even need to say thanks.
My last one, among others was "Dream away, Dreamer"
One thing I told the parts is we would be having an ongoing relationship, especially after this breakup.
Yes, the floodgates are open, and they can stay open if you continue to cultivate the state of mind that enabled you to get here. You are communicating with yourself, not blocking or suppressing information and emotions coming up from your unconscious mind. All these parts are you, organized into images that enable dialog. You won't be having an ongoing relationship with these parts; you are the relationship. It might take a while, but that will eventually make sense. For now, enjoy the discovery and learning that you have entered into. You can learn who you are at levels that will bring you tremendous delight and endless surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
This opening might have happened by itself one day in your life, maybe, but it happened now because your heart was split open by her. You are already grateful, so be grateful to her as you let her—and the story about her —go. Let the right moment come to you and finally let go.
Two injunctions:
You will relapse. That's because you have to. With a personal change as big as this, your learning mechanism has to test the new states you create, and the skills that you have just generated. Your mind will find the failure points to see where things break, then break them, then recycle back into what you have learned and put together a new new state. You have lots of choices about how you manage this, but recognize that nothing in the human heart/mind is static.
That's why people practice. So practice a lot. Let everybody inside of you be heard. Soften any hardness that comes up. As you have realized, resist nothing.
Second, any dramatic internal change like this takes you into unfamiliar territory, perspective-wise, awareness-wise, behaviorally, relationally, etc. and the more you can see yourself being comfortable in the new state, the more smoothly it re-manifests when it intends to. If you visualize yourself at some point in the future, being the way you want to be, feeling and acting accordingly, you will feed that outcome. If you jump into that mental image as yourself, seeing through those eyes, hearing through those ears, feeling, breathing, just functioning in that imagined body, you feed that outcome.
Next:
You should continue discovery, reframing and recovery, and "getting to know you" time as long as you want. As soon as the waves of information exchange peak and level off, and as you find yourself making meaningful decisions about how you will be in the future, objections will arise. If they don't, ask:"Is there any part of me that objects to these changes I am making?"There are parts of you that will feel that the changes represent a loss to them. Talk with them.
These objections are not obstacles; they are—or bring about—enhancements, refinements, and greater stability in the totality of your changes. Treat objecting parts with consideration and respect. Ask them (not why) what their objection is, specifically, and know that reframing any objection can occur if you modify your state to include that part's needs. With the same demeanor as when you are communicating with your other parts, negotiate with them to blend their concerns with your real-world needs. Don't ignore any objection.
Tao
Thanks, Tao.
That gives me a lot to think about.
That question: "Is there any part of me that objects to these changes I am making?" helps me try & understand why I feeling the way I do & getting closer in touch with that.
After another restless sleep, an hour here, an hour there, I had quite a few dreams all involving her. They are all helping me to better understand. I find myself feeling empty today & missing her. I am asking myself why? Do I miss her or the conditioning? What void was she really filling? And so on. I hope in the next days & weeks, I can start to let her go...
You have been letting her go all this time. You're just not done yet. All the anguish is part of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
You are asking the right kinds of questions. I recommend that you stay with "What" instead of "Why." You'll get better information.
But the key is to realize that she represents something within you, something that was there long before you met her, and that you are dealing more with internal symbolism/meaning than with her. The work of freeing yourself is within.
Some reading, if you are so inclined, will strengthen your new foundations:
1. A General Theory of Love will tell you how the emotional mechanism with which you are struggling gets put in place. A nice read. (Note to everybody: Every parent should read this book.)
Amazon.com: A General Theory of Love: Thomas Lewis, Fari Amini, Richard Lannon: Books
2. Anything by Byron Katie will tell you about the stories you—and the rest of us—create to make meaning in our lives, and how we suffer because of the stories we chose. Katie has an amazing way about her that dismantles disabling stories.
Amazon.com: byron katie: Books
I read and liked A Thousand Names for Joy. But her perspective in general is very powerful. Another that looks good is I Need Your Love - Is That True? Amazon.com: I Need Your Love - Is That True?: How to Stop Seeking Love, Approval, and Appreciation and Start Finding Them Instead: Byron Katie, Michael Katz: Books
3. Brodsky's Better Being Blog is written by an old and dear friend of mine. He and I have known each other for a long time, trained in martial arts together, baby sat each other's kids, and have been influenced by the same philosophies. His thinking/writing and mine are eerily similar. (so I know that he's smart) You will find his blog very useful.
Brodsky’s Better Being Blog
Last thought for now, check out the word "cathexis." Hint: Along with other sources, go to Amazon.com: The Road Less Traveled, 25th Anniversary Edition : A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth: M. Scott Peck: Books and search cathexis in the book.
Have fun with all this. There is no extra cost for enjoying the ride.
Tao
Thanks so much, Tao.
I will check those out.
Feeling like dog crap today. I in conversation with my parts, asking questions, getting responses and listening. Just can't seem to focus. Keep running through my head how she cheated, how I checked her into her flights, how she blindsided me with a phone call, then lied. Left me with "I want to be single" after 5 years. Pretty confused. I have some clarity, then I trigger something, & I fall apart all over again.
Wow, 5 yrs.
That's a long time.
Love is love.
Maybe she just needs some time.
Girls never really show why they need to breakup.
Its honestly one of the heardest things to do.
Especially if we're "in love"
But yeah, like you said, maybe she has a lot on her plate.
Her family, & her love life.
But basically I'm just saying.. give it some time.
And try talking to her in a couple weeks or something :)
Let me know what happens:)
-Fahtee.(fah uh teaa)
Im on no contact. There won't be any talking. I will give it time though, thanks.
Your welcome.
But you got to keep trying.
If you honestly LOVE her,
Then don't give up on her.
If you do, then you obv don't love her like you say you do.
Yes, it won't be easy & will take time.
But that's what love is all about, patience.
OK. Part of you is doing something that you don't want to do. Get into a working state and communicate. Ask that part what he is doing for you by running the tape of her transgressions over and over. You might also treat this continuance of agony as an objection to resolving things the way you have envisioned so far. Something is missing. (It's time to dream ) What will refine the changes you are making in yourself in order to assimilate all this so that the need behind these repeating patterns is satisfied?Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Remember that, no matter what you feel, this part is working on your behalf. He's part of you trying trying to get something for you that you need. It's not logical from your perspective because consciously, you want it all to stop. So you're confused. (Hmmm... I wonder if you can imagine what it will be like when it finally does stop.) What would you feel if this episode in your life were all done?
Prepare, ask, & listen. If you don't value what he is doing for you, ask at the next level: "What are you getting for me by doing x?" (We discussed this) Stay in rapport. What need is this behavioral loop fulfilling in you?
And... with all this inner work, it might happen that you become distracted by something else, and just forget to agonize.
tao
Tao, once again that really helps.
In this process and trying to understand its usefulness, I have been open, recognized that there were parts there & communicated and listened.
What I am stating to realize is that I have not been calling the meetings yet. Ive been another attendee. I need to start having a series of ongoing meetings with ones that can help at any given time.
What if I called Hope, Belief, Patience, Willingness, Acceptance, Realization, Success, Self-awareness, Happiness, Desire & Strength in? Maybe I invite Denial in to see what they have to offer.
And know that Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion, among others are waiting outside the door, and ready to be called upon if necessary.
Thanks for that.
Start with Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion. They are most ready to talk with you. They suffer, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
In this work, take the hard stuff first. The rest flows like a river.
Tao
I see. I will do that.
First, Vanheart is everything okay? You haven't been around for a couple days so just want to know how your doing.
Second, I have been gone for a week myself and just got caught up and I'm going to see if this makes sense...
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
I think they've been there the entire time but we as humans are afraid to be fearful so we hide them or ignore them. We try to avoid them and cover them up when in fact they are there to serve us just as much as happiness and joy. Fear, Agony, Apprehension and confusion should not be shunned at all, but rather recognized for their contributions.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
When you were searching for answers and you got the thoughts of her cheating, booking her flights and the break up those were these emotions speaking to you. They were saying you have a reasonable expectation of behavior from someone and she did not offer it to you. They are wanting to know why you allowed her to get away with this behavior when others couldn't. The hurt you feel is the hurt fear, agony, apprehension, and confusion feel because they served you and you did not serve them. The inner conflict is not about her at all but rather if you will continue to ignore these parts of you that are trying to serve you in the future. Your emotions fear, agony, apprehension, and confusion WANT to serve you, but they are unsure because they tried and it did not work out this time. But what about next time, will they be ignored or valued. That is the inner conflict. Do these parts of you need to re-evaluate themselves and what they will do?
Van tell me what you think. Am I close? Is there any eliminate to truth in what I'm driving at?
Tao, is this what Van should be getting? Is the inner conflict unrelated to the event (in this case the ex) but actually related to the confusion of the inner emotions and their role?
Chuffster, you have hit on something we all fail to understand, How we recognize and acknowledge our own feelings, and how to cope with them. That's the biggest part of life I think, not that we go through changes, birth, deaths, break ups, getting fired. But how we deal with them.Quote:
I think they've been there the entire time but we as humans are afraid to be fearful so we hide them or ignore them. We try to avoid them and cover them up when in fact they are there to serve us just as much as happiness and joy. Fear, Agony, Apprehension and confusion should not be shunned at all, but rather recognized for their contributions.
Tao's exercise is meant to bring that out in Van I think, not to talk for him, but from what I have been reading here.
Its an expansion of NC, letting the emotional dust settle, so you can make good decisions for YOURSELF, based on facts, and not just feelings.
Thanks, for checking in & you are right on. That's what I am trying to work on. Im still restless and almost every waking hour, I still think about this & her, even amongst my efforts to look inside. Wonder what she's doing, even she even gives a crap about me or feels the least bit guilty. I know this feels unproductive and almost keeps the pain alive, but I hope that these thoughts also help in some way. I keep trying to put myself in her shoes and still blown away how she used me & I allowed it. Doesn't make me happy in any way. Ive forcing myself to keep as busy as I can, even if its small things, but sometimes feel like I don't know what to do with myself. I have given so much of myself away, little by little that now Im kind of left feeling misdirected. Its been 17 days of NC & time is the only thing that helps that. Sometmes I just want to her her voice again, even though deep down I realize it was always an illusion. Pretty lame huh..
Lets say she does. That gives you some kind of relief because you know she screwed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Lets say she does not. You have a quality of life you expect and she does not meet up to it. You deserve better then she can offer because she is void of emotions.
They do help. By keeping the pain alive your brain is telling you or redirecting you to stay away from her. You emotion called pain is serving you and working for you. At some point that emotions will realize it's not needed and move on, so accept it now and encourage the process along by recognizing you will not accept that kind of behavior again.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
How about the way of education. You got one. Now you know what to look for in the future and what to avoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
You know I wound up coming to this site 3 years ago because I was acting like Mr. Nice Guy wuss boy getting mixed signals from some girl. I can't thank her enough for the pain she gave me then because it causes so much clarity since. For years prior to her I had the nice guy problem, where I would start fine and then turn into Mr. Nice Guy, doing everything for a woman giving myself away. That mistake cost me with the girl but brought me so much eduation over the last few years and led me to other girlfriends and dates with woman because of stuff I've learned. My point is out something bad I got something more valuable that will last me longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
What are you getting? Maybe it's still early for you to tell. But so far you've learned more about yourself from Tao then she was ever going to teach you. You've learned that she was was always selfish and you are can not correct that behavior so it's best YOU LET HER GO so she can practice that toxicity on someone else while you find a relationship that is more favorable to you, even if it's the one you are starting to have with yourself.
Thanks, Chuff.
That's really helps me to better understand some of these recurring thoughts & patterns. I realize that I don't need her grief. Time will help and like you say those emotions will fade, move on or become less frequent until asked back in again for another reason. This is all helping to let go. Sometimes it the little things that trigger those feelings. (places, history, curiosity, etc.. ) Im trying very hard to stay in touch with them when they emerge.
First, I am glad that you logged on and are doing OK, Van. We were getting concerned about you. Call us when you are going to be out late! (parental joke)Quote:
Originally Posted by chuff
That's a good take, Chuff. You've understood a bunch. Let's tweak it a little, fine tune it.
The sentence I've highlighted in red is the core statement. We all see the world and everyone in it through our own projections. We don't see what and who are there, but instead, we make a model, a representation of all the world and we work with it. Our representation has a lot less to do with the outside reality than it has to do with our inside reality. Our conflicts are primarily with ourselves.
(Note: See Greg Brodsky's bolg entry for May at: Brodsky’s Better Being Blog. He and I studied NLP together.)
Our brains operate in a cacophony of competing interests, processes, wants, and needs. Nobody is in charge and we end up doing what we do for reasons that we don't understand. Instead, we rationalize our reasons after the fact, and then believe they are true causes of our behavior. But we don't know how motivation, emotion, and consciousness work.
I used to enjoy John Grinder, co-founder of NLP, circa 1974-5, when he would start his workshops with, “Everything I am about to tell you is a lie. But, it is a useful lie. As long as the concepts we work with are useful, we will take them seriously.”
Any model we make up or "discover" is a lie, a fabrication of our minds as they attempt to capture the truth. While they all fail—no one has the inside scoop on reality yet—some models turn out to be more useful lies than others ("Parts," for example, provide better processes and choices than do "spirits.") The parts model gets even more useful when we assume that each part is a whole entity, like a complete person inside of us with its own point of view, issues and concerns, purpose, abilities, and significantly, a job. I've never experienced a person who contacted a part that didn't have a job/task/purpose.
Each part's job is essential at some level, or we wouldn't dedicate part of our minds to it. Some take care of behaviors essential for survival, like breathing. Some enhance our lives, like the part that can ride a bicycle. Some come into being because of trauma, like the part that gives us social or existential anxiety around certain kinds of people. But the parts aren't the breathing, riding the bike, or feeling anxious themselves. They are the neural networks that fire to make us breathe, ride well, and feel anxious.
We can distinguish ourselves—our conscious selves, or conscious minds—from any part simply by envisioning its existence. In doing that, we make the functions of the parts available for reflection, evaluation, and innovation. Since this happens because we dialog and negotiate and make decisions, we need ways to communicate effectively. Visualizing parts that are little homunculi, we get a sensational way to communicate; we enter our unconscious minds and just talk with the rest of us. If that fails, we communicate by physical sensations, emotions, visual imagery, or involuntary movements.
As Van has been finding out, talking with the parts of our minds is intense, revealing, surprising, and enjoyable. The right conversation can dramatically change things. The key is to know and use the intention--method--outcome formula.
An example:
I was a very angry young man and didn't know it. In my 30s I got in touch with my anger and was appalled by how much damage it caused. So, I lied down on the floor, did ten minutes of breathing and calming myself, created a working state, and asked:
"Would the part of me that causes me to be angry be willing to communicate with me in consciousness at this time?" (The wording was very precise in those days.)
Silence. No discernible sensation. After 2-3 minutes:
"I understand that the part of me that causes me to be angry is working on my behalf, doing something that I need. I appreciate and value that part. But I don't understand its function or its purpose. Would that part of me give me some sense of what he does for me by making me so angry at people?
Silence. Stillness.
"What would it take to get that part to communicate with me?
Breathing and calming my impatience and frustration down. Silence. Ready to give up.
"Would you be willing to show me something of yourself? (No begging, "Please" is not advised when establishing contact) I would be grateful if you would show yourself.
Suddenly, I got a picture of a face filling a doorway, a ferocious face like a semi-human wart hog with dark, wrinkly skin, fiery eyes, fur, fangs, whiskers, and a terrifying gaze. The face was huge, and covered the whole doorway.
"Holey s**t!" I exclaimed, "You are terrifying!" Tell me what you do for me."
"I make you angry."
"Yes, you do. Thank you. Please tell me what yo do for me by making me angry."
"I get you to scare people."
"And what do you get for me by scaring people?"
"I keep this door closed."
"What do you do for me by keeping this door closed?"
"I keep you from getting closer to people."
"And what does it do for me to not get closer to people?"
"It keeps you from getting hurt." (Bingo! I can get behind that!)
"Thank you! I appreciate you doing the job of keeping me from getting hurt. How, specifically, do you carry out your mission?"
"By keeping this door closed."
"To where does this door lead?"
"It's the door to your heart."
The next steps had to do with explaining that I appreciated the protection but that the method had drawbacks, then negotiating the willingness to change the method, delegating the job of finding three ways to keep me from getting hurt to "the creative parts of my mind," each of which would be as effective as the current method, but without the downside, and letting the process run by itself.
There were other details, but over the hours, days, and weeks that followed that experience, I could feel my anger and fear and the very need for such fierce protection dissipate. I saw myself change in ways that surprised me and gave me, and everyone around me, joy.
Tao
Thanks Tao for digging deeper. And, sorry for dropping out, I needed a bit of a break to let some of this soak in.
This is all helping me to better understand what my feelings are there for. It is helping me take the baby steps in letting her go and looking at how I ignored many feelings although I knew that they were occurring as well as the ones now. How I have rationalized without really being in touch, for countless reasons. I started to really look at what I perceived as fulfillment and conditioned myself to believe that I was being completed in some way & how I justified such self-sacrifice. Not only with her, but in my past, and with other aspects of my life. All of this helps and I even go back to what you or someone said weeks ago, and that resonates in a clearer way. I have been resisting realization and the dust is starting to settle. As it does, its becoming easier to look at things more objectively and not through what I perceived to be real. Looking back on instances, times, etc.. Has helped me realize what those suppressed feelings were trying to tell me. In some way, I needed her to make me feel complete even though the reciprocation was in a way minimal. I let myself continue believing something that, in fact was quite different. I ignored myself & my feelings in doing this for many reasons. Rejection, fear of lonliness, selfishness and in a way helped her manipulate things by doing that. Thanks again. Im not going anywhere. More soon.
A good thing to do sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Yeah, boye, you're unraveling some old myths. When you are ready, let us know what you have come to, arrived at, attained, realized, discovered, and otherwise grokked.Quote:
This is all helping me to better understand what my feelings are there for. It is helping me take the baby steps in letting her go and looking at how I ignored many feelings although I knew that they were occurring as well as the ones now. How I have rationalized without really being in touch, for countless reasons. I started to really look at what I perceived as fulfillment and conditioned myself to believe that I was being completed in some way & how I justified such self-sacrifice. Not only with her, but in my past, and with other aspects of my life. All of this helps and I even go back to what you or someone said weeks ago, and that resonates in a clearer way. I have been resisting realization and the dust is starting to settle. As it does, its becoming easier to look at things more objectively and not through what I perceived to be real. Looking back on instances, times, etc.. Has helped me realize what those suppressed feelings were trying to tell me. In some way, I needed her to make me feel complete even though the reciprocation was in a way minimal. I let myself continue believing something that, in fact was quite different. I ignored myself & my feelings in doing this for many reasons. Rejection, fear of lonliness, selfishness and in a way helped her manipulate things by doing that. Thanks again. Im not going anywhere. More soon.
Tao
I will for sure. Thanks for being there. The realizations & methods in getting me to a clearer place are starting come together in a way. Every day, there is something that helps me get there. I understand what "The Work" is about, I am grateful that I have been working from the start of all this. I guess for some of us only hurt & despair can help break our consciousness. Van.
Soon after I signed on to AMHD. I listened and valued all of the help.
Sometimes without truly realizing what people were saying. Your thoughts have guided me & in doing so I myself did research and have written myself notes (as I do in developing creative concepts in my work) Helps to break my thought pattern & dig.
For the past couple weeks, I at times had 20 pieces of paper scattered around in hopes to get some clarity, ease the pain, or try & go to sleep feeling that I was making some headway or sense.
As the days have gone by, the notes change, some I put away & maybe pull back in. Whatever. They have become more focused (as the ones in my work that have led to positive outcomes)
Some were cruel, some demanding & some serious listing.
Through all of this my new journal has been sitting on the table or in my bag ready to start venting in. I haven't touched it, feeling unready, overloaded considering my individual notes.
I am now taking a look at writing my story. From beginning to now, every person involved. Im making a list. And it brings back a lot. Ive done that before with the Artists Way & such, but seem to only look when I was confronted with something undesirable. Denial, hey?
The list is still going & when Im ready to write it down I will.
Its funny, a week or so ago, I cobbed this illustration together of my ex. Pretty ugly one of a black widow. Every claw had something meaningful impaled, blood & all. I even took my favorite photo of her, when we first started & put it on the spiders head.
Gave me pleasure at the time. Then I put it away, feeling weird that I created that picture. Ive pulled it out a couple more times, as I have my other notes. Even started a list of her good traits & bad. I was amazed at how unbalanced my list was & this was not out of anger.
Then, I began to think..
Draw that picture & make that list of who you are now.
Then the picture & list of who you want to be & how that affects others.
That is going to be my next bit of work.
Thanks for listening.
Ive been making commitments to myself to be healthy & getting myself together & at times, mustering up the energy to do so. Ive failed at times.
I think about perception vs reality. Nice advertising concept to sell Rolling Stone back in the day.
But, what's missing is the connection. Awareness, recognition and its relation.
Like Tao said early in these posts was. At a point who will ask yourself "What am I doing"
A question we should be asking ourselves constantly, right from the moment we awake.
Yup, Intention, Method, Outcome.
In the end, there is only awareness. We notice, with appreciation, the marvels of what is, what we do, what we think, believe, fear, suffer over, intend. If we just pay attention...Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Keep sorting and organizing, Vanheart. You are close to the next gate.
"Then, I began to think..
Draw that picture & make that list of who you are now.
Then the picture & list of who you want to be & how that affects others.
"That is gonna be my next bit of work."
There you will find the gate's key. Include in your desired state list what it will be like to be that person. Try it on like a coat. Feel it. See it from the inside. Enjoy consciously growing.
Tao
Thanks, Tao. I will try. Although she remains in my thoughts, and experience setbacks, I feel like I am making some progress.
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