My only feedback would be to continue the conversations. Sometimes, especially for a guy like him who internalizes everything, you just need to let it out. Scream, yet at the top of your lungs, anything to just get that mess out of your system (and I don't mean yell at you, but just to find some way to vent). I hate to say it, but perhaps these conversations are coming a bit too late? At any rate, hopefully this can be worked out and you two can see, with an objectional viewpoint, the faults both of you carry into this.

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Originally Posted by Justwantfair

So we had a conversation this morning about the situation, the conversation wasn't completed, but there seems to be some frustrations on both sides about our relationship.

He once again admitted that he is emotional not as open as I would like but that he has been putting alot of effort into trying to move forward. I think that he feels like I should always feel and be aware of these efforts and he should be getting credit although for me they are baby steps.

We talked about how my frustrations that have been coming out in snide, smart arse remarks are under his skin and he is sick of dealing with it. I think the frustrations on both ends are growing and causing more turmoil. I don't feel great about the conversation, but I see some of my own errors in the failures we are currently having.

So I guess I will have to wait til the conversation is completed.

Feedback?

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I think you should feel great about the conversation because it was exactly that, a conversation. That's a start. My husband doesn't talk at all and when he tries he doesn't know how to express his feelings. I have to ask him little things at a time to understand his point. I wouldn't take the blame totally in this. But he has to understand maybe your snide remarks would be less if he were more open to the topic and willing to discuss it more. Its like your playing off each others frustrations. He hears a smart remark from you and he tenses up and clams up. In return you see that and it makes more tension and more remarks from you. You have at least brought that in to the light now. Ask him if he understands why you make these remarks and ask him if he understands how you might feel. Don't leave this conversation where its at. You sit him down and continue it where you left off. Ask ask ask. If he doesn't answer or avoids something then reword the question. But certainly this morning wasn't a failure by any means.

I am a pretty objective person. I wasn't doubting my own faults (although I do see his a lot clearer than my own). :p

I guess the conversation with our neighbor has me all messed up. The neighbor noted lots of things that my partner had progressed with. He told me that while it's so minor to me, it's huge steps for him. That if I am getting 10% progress then I should be understanding, because the progress is there. He went on to talk about the more internal a person is, the slower, but more permanent the change. If my partner were able to offer a ring tomorrow, it would make him more likely to be the partner that would file for divorce just as quickly. That my partner's progress is way slower but way more permanent so that once the change is made there isn't a turn back. Does that make sense? I guess it made sense to me, but then it also put me back on another five year plan... ::shakes head::

He wants me to hold off until August and go with him (the neighbor) to some of his Marriage Matters seminars.

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Originally Posted by 88sunflower

I think you should feel great about the conversation because it was exactly that, a conversation. Thats a start. My husband doesnt talk at all and when he tries he doesnt know how to express his feelings. I have to ask him little things at a time to understand his point. I wouldnt take the blame totally in this. But he has to understand maybe your snide remarks would be less if he were more open to the topic and willing to discuss it more. Its like your playing off each others frustrations. He hears a smart remark from you and he tenses up and clams up. In return you see that and it makes more tension and more remarks from you. You have atleast brought that in to the light now. Ask him if he understands why you make these remarks and ask him if he understands how you might feel. Dont leave this conversation where its at. You sit him down and continue it where you left off. Ask ask ask. If he doesnt answer or avoids something then reword the question. But certainly this morning wasnt a failure by any means.

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I think this morning was progressive. I think that although I have approached the conversation in the past, he worries that telling me how he feels will often lead to fighting. Most often his vents and frustrations focus around housework... his love language is 'acts of service' and he is OCD, so it's like housework not getting done or that is neglected for a day throws him into all sorts of chaos.

I think there was some buildup behind this and if we can break down some of where the buildup came from. Like I told him this morning, I tell him probably every time I get frustrated with him and because he isn't emotionally open, I don't feel heard, so I tend to readdress and readdress the same issue rather than see that he is working on what my complaint was. I continue to nag about the original complaint because he never addressed my feelings with words, he just changed his actions... which should get him more credit then I give.

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Originally Posted by Justwantfair

I think this morning was progressive. I think that although I have approached the conversation in the past, he worries that telling me how he feels will often lead to fighting. Most often his vents and frustrations focus around housework... his love language is 'acts of service' and he is OCD, so it's like housework not getting done or that is neglected for a day throws him into all sorts of chaos.

I think there was some buildup behind this and if we can break down some of where the buildup came from. Like I told him this morning, I tell him probably every time I get frustrated with him and because he isn't emotionally open, I don't feel heard, so I tend to readdress and readdress the same issue rather than see that he is working on what my complaint was. I continue to nag about the original complaint because he never addressed my feelings with words, he just changed his actions... which should get him more credit then I give.

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That makes so much sense to me. I know where your coming from with that. Are you sure your not dating my husband? So much the same.
Would he be willing to do to these seminars with you? Maybe that would help him also. Does he realize the stats out there on single mothers? Does he realize not taking the leap with you will more then likely only lead him to another single mother? Maybe if you talk it over with him about what the neighbor said he might want to go to a seminar to. Go once at least because what's it going to hurt? If you get nothing at all out of it then I guess that's at least something. But you really need to keep your dreams and feelings up front about this. He is coming around slowely. But when will he do the full circle. In another 5 years?

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Originally Posted by 88sunflower

In another 5 years?

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That is my biggest question.

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Originally Posted by Justwantfair

That is my biggest question.

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Make sure you get that out there next time you talk. Make sure it sinks in and he knows it. But when this is all said and done, what if he did propose? Would you spend the rest of your life wondering if you pushed him in to it? I hate to say to that but you have to think of yourself in this also. He has to do it because its right for him and its time. But will he cave under the pressure and just do it? Does that make sense?

That is why I won't address it and I feel that is a lot of his backlash.

I have always put the pressure out there, not for pressure's sake, but for the fact that it's already like we are married. I think in the end, to move forward, I will be the one who has to step down, in order for him to step up.

Whatever you need to do. Its your life and happiness. Your so smart and strong I have seen it in these threads. Just don't step down and settlel for less when you deserve more. You have proven to him and its still not enough ( to me it seems )
Take this big hug and if you need to break down here a good dry shoulder to slop up.

As I've read to the treads I really don't feel I have anything to contribute (that would be constructive), but I do want you to know that I'm here and you've got my sympathies and shoulder and whatever else you might need.

Also sunflowers latest post do hold a very important point... in the end it really is about your happiness, your life... and if he can't give you what you need, then in the end it might be better to leave it behind. Even though that's a painful decision to make! 5 years is a long time and you've made a big investment! Gosh it always grips me... how sometimes even though you want something to work out, and you want something with every fiber in your body... and you lay down years of your time, your love and devotion... :sigh:...

I really wish you the best of everything!

A huge hug goes out to you Justy!!

Thank you both for your support.

It is a difficult fork in the road and I am not sure how the rest of the conversation will go. If he is willing to go to the seminar, that would be the most significant thing to me. Acknowledging a problem is one thing, but facing it head on would be a bigger step. I think that it could potential make us stronger and we do have great qualities in a relationship that are hard to come by, so working on these issues could make our relationship great.

I will keep everyone posted and thanks once again to everyone for the support and the sounding board. In addition to all of the great reflection I will have if this all blows up in my face and I am still on hold in a year. :eek:

So true, there really is a difference in acknowledging and in facing a problem... but it is a start though... there is no hope of fixing a problem, if the partners involved can't see or express what that problem is.

I hope the rest of the conversation goes well...

Another thing that I've kind of been thinking about your situation... is that even if the two of you go towards a break-up, I'm glad that you have the emotional tools that you have and from former posts (even though it is harder to follow our own advice then to give it) you really do strike me a reflected person, who have many many things going for her (intellectually as well as in other ways)!

Thank you, I honestly don't see either situation as a losing situation, he grows or I leave for new experiences. Just different results to the roads.

I am way more hopeful that he is willing to continue to grow and work on the issues.

See you already have a positive look on it. That's great that you can see that and voice it. It's a winning situation either way. Its just a hard road to get there.

I'm glad that this is the way you have chosen to look at your situation! Either way, both of you will hopefully be an experience richer. (or even several.)

That's another thing I like about you justy, the way you chose to look at the matters at hand.

::blushing:: Thank you Roxy.

A young couple moved into a new neighborhood. The next morning while they were eating breakfast, the young woman saw her neighbor hanging the wash outside.
'That laundry is not very clean,' she said. 'She doesn't know how to wash correctly.
Perhaps she needs better laundry soap.'

Her husband looked on, but remained silent.

Every time her neighbor would hang her wash to dry, the young woman would make the same comments.

About one month later, the woman was surprised to see a nice clean wash on the line and said to her husband:

'Look, she has learned how to wash correctly. I wonder who taught her this.'

The husband said, 'I got up early this morning and cleaned our windows.'

And so it is with life. What we see when watching others depends on the purity of the window through which we look.

So the conversation didn't go the way I had hoped. I feel a bit lost with the situation. We both aired a lot of frustrations that were not being communicated appropriately previous to this. He said he understands I want to get married, but he is not ready, no indication of if he ever will be. Which is confusing because in almost every aspect it is like we already are married, maybe it is just to keep walking away easier? The only explanation I can gather.

So last night the conversation was left that we are both fed up with each other. That we have until the next day in court to decide how we want to go forward. He was very pessimistic throughout the conversation, where there weren't good times or good things to talk about, only a lot of pent up frustration with feeling like I treat him poorly. :(

Today: Still lost.

I'm going to have to be the devil's advocate here.

I'm really sorry to hear about your most recent fight. You've asked for advice on your situation for about a year.

If you read your first post and your last post, it seems like there hasn't been much progress in your relationship with your boyfriend.

I hate to point this out, but after 1 year and little or no progress, with the help of all these experts, it might be time to call it quits.