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-   -   I just can't deal with the pain.. What do I do? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=473308)

  • Jun 18, 2010, 05:03 AM
    eveamee09

    Hi, just popped on here very briefly before I pop out shopping... positiveparent what's wrong? Are you okay? I hope nothing has happened that has made you want to stop talking on this site :S Apologies in advance if it's anything to do with me.

    Thank you I will contact you in other ways if I need to, but I hope you are okay? You have been such a wonderful help and very strengthening to me (and I'm sure to others on here too) so I want to thank you for that! I hope to talk to you soon. I will email you later if that is okay.

    Best wishes and thanks again

    And thanks to you Kit also, you've also helped me more than you'll ever know. X
  • Jun 18, 2010, 12:06 PM
    JudyKayTee

    Back to OP's question? I think - and have found - it's a mistake to replace one relationship with another. Until and unless you are willing to move on you do disservice to yourself as well as anyone you meet.

    I think OP has to come to grips with where she is, what she wants, and then go to clubs or do whatever - if she is going to entertain herself, fine. If she is going to attract men, I think it's a mistake.
  • Jun 18, 2010, 12:37 PM
    ruby_holler

    That's horrible! I'm really sorry that things ended up that way. But have you ever thouht maybe it's for the best and it wasn't meant to be I know you've given it tons of thought. I'm no expert but I try to help as much as I can.
  • Jun 18, 2010, 08:17 PM
    positiveparent

    Hi Katie I have found out some more affirmations you can use before going to meet with the ex.

    I am.
    I am a good person.
    I am loved.
    I am love.
    I am worthy of prosperity.
    I am worthy of abundance.
    I am worthy of joy.
    I am worthy of happiness.
    I am perfect health.
    I am perfect order.
    I am always successful.
    I am mentally clear.
    I am responsible for my life.
    I am responsible for my life only.
    I am free to choose the direction of my life.
    I am choosing the direction of my life.
    I am in control of my life.
    I am in control of my life only.
    I am blessing everyone and everything in my life.
    I am safe and secure.
    I am completely safe and secure.
    I am forgiven.
    I am forgiving all others.
    I am at peace with myself.
    I am at peace with the world.
    I am open to all knowledge.
    I am letting the knowledge reveal truth.
    I am open to all truth.
    I am open only to truth.
    I am living in truth.
    I am truth.
    I am in my perfect career now.
    I am being myself.
    I am open to my perfect loving partner now.
    I am open to let my life's purpose reveal itself to me now.
    I am ready to receive my good.
    I am courage.
    I am whole.
    I am eternal.
    I am living in eternity now.
    I am living in the present now.
    I am loving myself.
    I am loving all others.
    I am providing good in this world.
    I am allowing good into all phases of my life.
  • Jun 18, 2010, 08:21 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by positiveparent View Post
    Hi Katie I have found out some more affirmations you can use before going to meet with the ex.

    I am.
    I am a good person.
    I am loved.
    I am love.
    I am worthy of prosperity.
    I am worthy of abundance.
    I am worthy of joy.
    I am worthy of happiness.
    I am perfect health.
    I am perfect order.
    I am always successful.
    I am mentally clear.
    I am responsible for my life.
    I am responsible for my life only.
    I am free to choose the direction of my life.
    I am choosing the direction of my life.
    I am in control of my life.
    I am in control of my life only.
    I am blessing everyone and everything in my life.
    I am safe and secure.
    I am completely safe and secure.
    I am forgiven.
    I am forgiving all others.
    I am at peace with myself.
    I am at peace with the world.
    I am open to all knowledge.
    I am letting the knowledge reveal truth.
    I am open to all truth.
    I am open only to truth.
    I am living in truth.
    I am truth.
    I am in my perfect career now.
    I am being myself.
    I am open to my perfect loving partner now.
    I am open to let my life's purpose reveal itself to me now.
    I am ready to receive my good.
    I am courage.
    I am whole.
    I am eternal.
    I am living in eternity now.
    I am living in the present now.
    I am loving myself.
    I am loving all others.
    I am providing good in this world.
    I am allowing good into all phases of my life.

    Good list... Kit:)
  • Jun 19, 2010, 06:22 AM
    eveamee09
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by positiveparent View Post
    Hi Katie I have found out some more affirmations you can use before going to meet with the ex.

    I am.
    I am a good person.
    I am loved.
    I am love.
    I am worthy of prosperity.
    I am worthy of abundance.
    I am worthy of joy.
    I am worthy of happiness.
    I am perfect health.
    I am perfect order.
    I am always successful.
    I am mentally clear.
    I am responsible for my life.
    I am responsible for my life only.
    I am free to choose the direction of my life.
    I am choosing the direction of my life.
    I am in control of my life.
    I am in control of my life only.
    I am blessing everyone and everything in my life.
    I am safe and secure.
    I am completely safe and secure.
    I am forgiven.
    I am forgiving all others.
    I am at peace with myself.
    I am at peace with the world.
    I am open to all knowledge.
    I am letting the knowledge reveal truth.
    I am open to all truth.
    I am open only to truth.
    I am living in truth.
    I am truth.
    I am in my perfect career now.
    I am being myself.
    I am open to my perfect loving partner now.
    I am open to let my life's purpose reveal itself to me now.
    I am ready to receive my good.
    I am courage.
    I am whole.
    I am eternal.
    I am living in eternity now.
    I am living in the present now.
    I am loving myself.
    I am loving all others.
    I am providing good in this world.
    I am allowing good into all phases of my life.

    Thanks, this list is really good and really helpful. I had a great night out clubbing last night by the way, really enjoyed spending time with my friends and dancing. Got a bit of male attention but just ignored them as I'm really not interested in that right now. I texted my boyfriend today and basically asked him if he was free to meet up on Tuesday. He hasn't replied. I'm expecting that he hasn't replied because either a) He doesn't want to appear too desperate and reply straight away, he wants to keep me hanging for a couple of days so he can regain some control and then suggest a different time (i.e. Monday would suit me better) etc... or b) because he's still asleep. I think it's a), personally. He is very much someone who likes being in control (as I'm sure you've all realised!) and so will probably meet me, but on his terms, when he says it, and after a 2 day delay after keeping me waiting, if you get me. Anyway we shall see. I will let you know what happens. I am very nervous though, but the info that I've been given on here should help immensely. Even though I feel like a small part of me is missing (him), I feel like an even bigger part of me has come back (the self that I lost when I was with him).

    Thanks again, will let you know. Hope everybody is well. Xx
  • Jun 19, 2010, 09:01 AM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eveamee09 View Post
    Thanks, this list is really good and really helpful. I had a great night out clubbing last night by the way, really enjoyed spending time with my friends and dancing. Got a bit of male attention but just ignored them as I'm really not interested in that right now. I texted my boyfriend today and basically asked him if he was free to meet up on Tuesday. He hasn't replied. I'm expecting that he hasn't replied because either a) He doesn't want to appear too desperate and reply straight away, he wants to keep me hanging for a couple of days so he can regain some control and then suggest a different time (i.e. Monday would suit me better) etc... or b) because he's still asleep. I think it's a), personally. He is very much someone who likes being in control (as I'm sure you've all realised!) and so will probably meet me, but on his terms, when he says it, and after a 2 day delay after keeping me waiting, if you get me. Anyway we shall see. I will let you know what happens. I am very nervous though, but the info that I've been given on here should help immensely. Even though I feel like a small part of me is missing (him), I feel like an even bigger part of me has come back (the self that I lost when I was with him).

    Thanks again, will let you know. Hope everybody is well. xx

    Good Luck... let us know how it goes!
  • Jun 19, 2010, 12:42 PM
    positiveparent

    Hi Katie, just to say Im pleased you had a night out last night.

    As we've already gone over in earlier posts you don't have to go out looking for males, this time is your time, for you and only you, so do your own thing for you and only you.

    Ill look for you tomorrow on ebuddy, was it, LOL anyway that chat site.

    Ill be on after 6pm its Fathers Day so going up my Dads.

    Hi Kit hope you're having a good day, with grankids?? Till ater
  • Jun 19, 2010, 01:00 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by positiveparent View Post
    Hi Katie, just to say Im pleased you had a night out last night.

    As weve already gone over in earlier posts you dont have to go out looking for males, this time is your time, for you and only you, so do your own thing for you and only you.

    Ill look for you tomorrow on ebuddy, was it, LOL anyway that chat site.

    Ill be on after 6pm its Fathers Day so going up my Dads.

    Hi Kit hope youre having a good day, with grankids ??? till ater



    Katie.. Parent is right.. I know you're too smart to jump back into a relationship right away. Be careful... have a good day... :)
  • Jun 20, 2010, 04:11 AM
    eveamee09

    Hi everybody! Glad you're okay! Happy Father's Day everyone, enjoy time with your Dads. Yes you're both right, now it's "me" time, not "guy" time! I'm actually quite excited underneath it all!

    He replied to my text by the way and simply said that yes he would meet me on Tuesday. I am pleased as now I can plan what to do and say etc.

    PositiveParent, I would LOVE to chat to you on e-buddy, only my sister is staying with me here at University for the weekend and we have planned to go out this evening so I can show her the sights. I am sure there will be another day shortly when we can have a good chat! I hope you enjoy time at your Dad's and that you Kit also have fun.

    Went out again last night to a nice Bar for some pool and some chats with nice people. Am enjoying myself at the moment. Thanks again for all your support x
  • Jun 20, 2010, 12:01 PM
    positiveparent

    Of course that's fine you've got your own life to live, so anytime is fine by me.

    Great to know you're going out and socialising. Till later...
  • Jun 20, 2010, 12:06 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by positiveparent View Post
    Of course thats fine youve got your own life to live, so anytime is fine by me.

    Great to know youre going out and socialising. Till later...




    I'm thinking of my dad today. He went to be with the Lord eight years ago... This is the first fathers day since he's been gone.. that I haven't cried. He's with the Lord and I'll see him again soon. Happy for you. Positive hope you and the hubby and kiddies have a good day.
  • Jun 20, 2010, 12:54 PM
    eveamee09
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kitkat22 View Post
    I'm thinking of my dad today. He went to be with the Lord eight years ago.....This is the first fathers day since he's been gone..that I haven't cried. He's with the Lord and I'll see him again soon. Happy for you. Positive hope you and the hubby and kiddies have a good day.

    Hi Kit, sorry to hear this, I am really pleased that you have managed to stay strong today and I'm sure he would be proud of you :) He also knows you are thinking of him and knows that you love him! I hope you've both had a good day too. Lots of love to all
  • Jun 20, 2010, 01:05 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eveamee09 View Post
    Hi Kit, sorry to hear this, I am really pleased that you have managed to stay strong today and I'm sure he would be proud of you :) He also knows you are thinking of him and knows that you love him! I hope you've both had a good day too. Lots of love to all





    Glad you are almost through this! Tuesday... glad it will be over. You stay strong! :)
  • Jun 20, 2010, 01:19 PM
    eveamee09

    Thank you. Just a bit of an update for you.

    He tried to call me earlier but I didn't answer. Instead I texted him saying "What's wrong? Is everything okay?" because I was worried about him. He replied and said that he wanted to make arrangements for Tuesday. I told him that I'd meet him at a park near my house at 12 midday (and for me to drive there myself). He suggested instead that he would pick me up and go to Savill Gardens which is a beautiful botanical garden like place in Windsor. It's very romantic. Obviously I said no. So he agreed and we left it at that.

    Then, about 15 minutes ago, he sent me a text saying "Im sorry katie but unless we speak briefly on the phone before tuesday. I dont want to meet up."

    So I haven't replied. If he keeps pushing it, I'll say fine we won't meet then, but there's no way I'm speaking to him before then because all he'll do is try to manipulate me. That's fair isn't it? If he doesn't want to meet me then fine, I'm not going to force him and at the end of the day it'll be bad on him as all it would do is drag it out longer! What do you think?
  • Jun 20, 2010, 01:21 PM
    eveamee09

    I think he's going to do everything he can to woo me, like buy me presents, bring food and possibly even tickets for a holiday or something. I think he's still in denial and doesn't think it will be over. He probably thinks he can make me change my mind. I'm dreading it. I know what I want though and just hope I remember that when I'm looking at him.
  • Jun 20, 2010, 01:55 PM
    positiveparent

    Hi Katie, that's a good idea don't let him get around you to speak with you on the phone, he wants to see if he can get you to do one thing he wants then he will believe or know or think he can still win you around, if he offers you buckingham palace rent free for life don't take it, diamonds, pearls, your own hareem of men ( ummm could be tempting LOL) refuse, anything from his last rolo, to the shirt off his back, just calmly say No Thank You Ive got 2 already, lol seriously, decline anything he offers you.

    You did say you were taking a friend with you, is that still on? When you meet him make sure you stay in a fairly open area, where there will be others passing by, don't be too close to water, as in on the banks of a lake or similar, I recommend you wear flats or trainers,(in case you need to exit fast) don't be dressed up, jeans and a jumper is good, you want to be looking just ordinary.

    You don't want to have him getting amorous, after all.

    Go through the list of suggestions in the Loser file, have a strategy, like say you can't stop long you're awaiting an urgent phone call on the home phone, that you only found out about 2 hours earlier, so couldn't let him know for a reschedule.

    Try not to cry, be cold, or calculating in how you talk too him, just keep reminding yourself how he was wanting to control you, don't fall for his tears they'll be put on Im sure. Don't let him hug you or hold your hand or anything familiar, you have to be cool calm and collected, tell him you've given it much thought and whatever else, and be firm, he may try all sorts to win you over don't fall for anything, you're strong, you're determined, don't feel sorry for him, did he when he wouldn't let you be yourself, wouldn't let you do what you wanted, no he did not.

    Just keep it short and too the point you don't owe him any explanations. You had a relationship, it didn't work its over end of story.

    Wish him well Tell him you want to focus all your attention on your university degree, and you want to focus on it as your main priority, and you've realised that's your number one thing to focus on. If he asks personal questions don't reply, make an excuse to cut the meeting short the bare minimum of time you need to tell him its over and then go, don't wait around for him to get it together hell get himself together almost immediately once you walk away.

    As already suggested use the urgent phone call excuse. Turn your mobile phone off, you want this businesslike and texts coming in or a call from your friend won't achieve that. Keep your car in sight as much as possible, this is in case you need to get away from him in a hurry.

    If you take your friend, ask her to wait a sensible distance away, but to remind you after a pre determined time span that you have that urgent important call to get back home for.

    Hope this will be useful for you.
    You'll do it, I know you will, but do it as quickly and cleanly as possible.

    Businesslike and efficient.
  • Jun 20, 2010, 02:15 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by positiveparent View Post
    Hi Katie, thats a good idea dont let him get around you to speak with you on the phone, he wants to see if he can get you to do one thing he wants then he will believe or know or think he can still win you around, if he offers you buckingham palace rent free for life dont take it, diamonds, pearls, your own hareem of men ( ummm could be tempting LOL) refuse, anything from his last rolo, to the shirt off his back, just calmly say No Thank You Ive got 2 already, lol seriously, decline anything he offers you.

    You did say you were taking a friend with you, is that still on? When you meet him make sure you stay in a fairly open area, where there will be others passing by, dont be too close to water, as in on the banks of a lake or similar, I recommend you wear flats or trainers,(in case you need to exit fast) dont be dressed up, jeans and a jumper is good, you want to be looking just ordinary.

    You dont want to have him getting amorous, after all.

    Go through the list of suggestions in the Loser file, have a strategy, like say you can't stop long youre awaiting an urgent phone call on the home phone, that you only found out about 2 hours earlier, so couldnt let him know for a reschedule.

    Try not to cry, be cold, or calculating in how you talk too him, just keep reminding yourself how he was wanting to control you, dont fall for his tears theyll be put on Im sure. dont let him hug you or hold your hand or anything familiar, you have to be cool calm and collected, tell him youve given it much thought and whatever else, and be firm, he may try all sorts to win you over dont fall for anything, youre strong, youre determined, dont feel sorry for him, did he when he wouldnt let you be yourself, wouldnt let you do what you wanted, no he did not.

    Just keep it short and too the point you dont owe him any explanations. You had a relationship, it didnt work its over end of story.

    Wish him well Tell him you want to focus all your attention on your university degree, and you want to focus on it as your main priority, and youve realised thats your number one thing to focus on. If he asks personal questions dont reply, make an excuse to cut the meeting short the bare minimum of time you need to tell him its over and then go, dont wait around for him to get it together hell get himself together almost immediately once you walk away.

    As already suggested use the urgent phone call excuse. turn your mobile phone off, you want this businesslike and texts coming in or a call from your friend wont achieve that. Keep your car in sight as much as possible, this is incase you need to get away from him in a hurry.

    If you take your friend, ask her to wait a sensible distance away, but to remind you after a pre determined time span that you have that urgent important call to get back home for.

    Hope this will be useful for you.
    Youll do it, I know you will, but do it as quickly and cleanly as possible.

    Businesslike and efficient.

    Don't give in... stay strong... Take his things and leave then on his doorstep...
  • Jun 20, 2010, 02:45 PM
    eveamee09

    Okay, this will be so hard but I think that what you said is the best way. Although I do love him very very much so I think crying will be inevitable and something I won't be able to prevent. I am definitely in agreement about the idea of being firm and businesslike (as much as possible) and want to appear to be sure that this is definitely what I want (no strong signs of weakness). Obviously though due to the love we share it will be really hard and my instinctual feelings will be to show affection and sympathy, but I will try not to touch him or hold hands etc like you said. I'll also just wear really normal plain clothes and not make any sort of special effort to dress up. Not sure whether to take my friend with me? Part of me wants to feel like I can do this on my own, and that having my friend there will put extra pressure and make me feel rushed, but also it would be good to have her to talk to afterwards on the way home. Not sure about this one yet. Why is it you think I shouldn't go on my own? I'm not worried about him being aggressive or anything by the way, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't hurt me.

    Thanks for your advice x
  • Jun 20, 2010, 02:49 PM
    positiveparent

    I think you would be safer taking a friend, when a person is told that the relationship is over they can at times, not all, not all the time, but occasionally a person being rejected which is what he will think he is, may act out of character and become violent, as you know he's controlling, and it would be a preventative thing mostly.

    However you must do what feels best for you.

    Just be careful. Very Careful!!

    Don't tell yourself it will be hard, I accept it won't be a piece of cake but if you tell yourself it will be hard then that's negative self talk, tell yourself I can do this I am doing it for my good and my well being, anything but telling yourself it will be hard, Use the I am affirmations. Take the ones that feel right and keep saying them to yourself.

    Think Positive..

    Just keep telling yourself I am strong I am capable I am determined, I will get through this, I want this, and I am going to go through with it, in a strong and determined way, I am strong. ...

    Also Katie I don't like being the one to tell you this, but he didnt Love you, if he did he wouldn't have been controlling, or tried telling you what to do, because Love isn't that way, love accepts and wants the person they love to be themselves at all times, the person who tries to control another doesn't love them, its themselves they love not another.
  • Jun 20, 2010, 02:50 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eveamee09 View Post
    Okay, this will be so hard but I think that what you said is the best way. Although I do love him very very much so I think crying will be inevitable and something I won't be able to prevent. I am definitely in agreement about the idea of being firm and businesslike (as much as possible) and want to appear to be sure that this is definitely what I want (no strong signs of weakness). Obviously though due to the love we share it will be really hard and my instinctual feelings will be to show affection and sympathy, but I will try not to touch him or hold hands etc like you said. I'll also just wear really normal plain clothes and not make any sort of special effort to dress up. Not sure whether to take my friend with me? Part of me wants to feel like I can do this on my own, and that having my friend there will put extra pressure and make me feel rushed, but also it would be good to have her to talk to afterwards on the way home. Not sure about this one yet. Why is it you think I shouldn't go on my own? I'm not worried about him being agressive or anything by the way, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't hurt me.

    Thanks for your advice x

    I think he will not take it well when he knows for sure it's over. Something tells me you need someone with you!
  • Jun 21, 2010, 06:39 AM
    eveamee09
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by positiveparent View Post
    I think you would be safer taking a friend, when a person is told that the relationship is over they can at times, not all, not all the time, but occasionally a person being rejected which is what he will think he is, may act out of character and become violent, as you know hes controlling, and it would be a preventative thing mostly.

    However you must do what feels best for you.

    Just be careful. Very Careful!!!!

    Dont tell yourself it will be hard, I accept it wont be a piece of cake but if you tell yourself it will be hard then thats negative self talk, tell yourself I can do this I am doing it for my good and my well being, anything but telling yourself it will be hard, Use the I am affirmations. take the ones that feel right and keep saying them to yourself.

    Think Positive..

    Just keep telling yourself I am strong I am capable I am determined, I will get through this, I want this, and I am going to go through with it, in a strong and determined way, I am strong. ...

    Also Katie I dont like being the one to tell you this, but he didnt Love you, if he did he wouldnt have been controlling, or tried telling you what to do, because Love isnt that way, love accepts and wants the person they love to be themselves at all times, the person who tries to control another doesnt love them, its themselves they love not another.

    I will do this! I will think positively and tell myself that I can do it! I doubt myself too much I think, it's bad because I know what I want and I know I can do it. I will do it! And I also did wonder that.. about whether he truly loved me or not... it definitely was not all-encompassing love as clearly he wouldn't accept me for myself. I know I deserve better! Marianne I'm going to read the rest of your files you sent me later on tonight. I am going to read them and also make a long list of all the bad things he's done and reasons I am breaking up with him, and remind myself over and over again that this is the right thing to do! I'll also go over some past messages in this thread that yourself and Kit have written too. Thanks a lot, speak later x
  • Jun 21, 2010, 07:20 AM
    positiveparent
    Im re-posting the following so that Katie can re-read it and hopefully put some of it to use for when you meet with the Ex tomorrow and Good Luck, I know you can do it and that you're doing as you are because you know you're worth more.

    Ending the Relationship
    Remembering that "The Loser" doesn't accept responsibility, responds with anger to criticism, and is prone to panic detachment reactions - ending the relationship continues the same theme as the detachment.

    - Explain that you are emotionally numb, confused, and burned out. You can't feel anything for anybody and you want to end the relationship almost for his or her benefit. Remind them that they've probably noticed something is wrong and that you need time to sort out your feelings and fix whatever is wrong with you. As disgusting as it may seem, you may have to use a theme of "I'm not right for anyone at this point in my life." If "The Loser" can blame the end on you, as they would if they ended the relationship anyway, they will depart faster.

    - If "The Loser" panics, you'll receive a shower of phone calls, letters, notes on your car, etc. React to each in the same manner - a boring thanks. If you overreact or give in, you've lost control again.

    - Focus on your need for time away from the situation. Don't agree to the many negotiations that will be offered - dating less frequently, dating only once a week, taking a break for only a week, going to counseling together, etc. As long as "The Loser" has contact with you they feel there is a chance to manipulate you.

    - "The Loser" will focus on making you feel guilty. In each phone contact you'll hear how much you are loved, how much was done for you, and how much they have sacrificed for you. At the same time, you'll hear about what a bum you are for leading them on, not giving them an opportunity to fix things, and embarrassing them by ending the relationship.

    - Don't try to make them understand how you feel - it won't happen. "The Loser" only is concerned with how they feel - your feelings are irrelevant. You will be wasting your time trying to make them understand and they will see the discussions as an opportunity to make you feel more guilty and manipulate you.

    - Don't fall for sudden changes in behavior or promises of marriage, trips, gifts, etc. By this time you have already seen how "The Loser" is normally and naturally. While anyone can change for a short period of time, they always return to their normal behavior once the crisis is over.

    - Seek professional counseling for yourself or the support of others during this time. You will need encouragement and guidance. Keep in mind, if "The Loser" finds out you are seeking help they will criticize the counseling, the therapist, or the effort.

    - Don't use terms like "someday", "maybe", or "in the future". When "The Loser" hears such possibilities, they think you are weakening and will increase their pressure.

    - Imagine a dead slot machine. If we are in Las Vegas at a slot machine and pull the handle ten times and nothing happens - we move on to another machine. However, if on the tenth time the slot machine pays us even a little, we keep pulling the handle - thinking the jackpot is on the way.

    If we are very stern and stable about the decision to end the relationship over many days, then suddenly offer a possibility or hope for reconciliation - we've given a little pay and the pressure will continue.

    Never change your position - always say the same thing. "The Loser" will stop playing a machine that doesn't pay off and quickly move to another.


    Follow-up Protection
    "The Loser" never sees their responsibility or involvement in the difficulties in the relationship. From a psychological standpoint, "The Loser" has lived and behaved in this manner most of their life, clearly all of their adult life.

    As they really don't see themselves at fault or as an individual with a problem, "The Loser" tends to think that the girlfriend or boyfriend is simply going through a phase - their partner (victim) might be temporarily mixed up or confused, they might be listening to the wrong people, or they might be angry about something and will get over it soon.

    "The Loser" rarely detaches completely and will often try to continue contact with the partner even after the relationship is terminated.

    During the Follow-up Protection period, some guidelines are:


    - Never change your original position. It's over permanently! Don't talk about possible changes in your position in the future. You might think that will calm "The Loser" but it only tells them that the possibilities still exist and only a little more pressure is needed to return to the relationship.

    - Don't agree to meetings or reunions to discuss old times. For "The Loser", discussing old times is actually a way to upset you, put you off guard, and use the guilt to hook you again.

    - Don't offer details about your new life or relationships. Assure him that both his life and your life are now private and that you hope they are happy.

    - If you start feeling guilty during a phone call, get off the phone fast. More people return to bad marriages and relationships due to guilt than anything else. If you listen to those phone calls, as though taping them, you'll find "The Loser" spends most of the call trying to make you feel guilty.

    - In any contact with the ex "Loser", provide only a status report, much like you'd provide to your Aunt Gladys. For example: "I'm still working hard and not getting any better at tennis. That's about it."

    - When "The Loser" tells you how difficult the breakup has been, share with him some general thoughts about breaking-up and how finding the right person is difficult.

    While "The Loser" wants to focus on your relationship, talk in terms of Ann Landers - "Well, breaking up is hard on anyone. Dating is tough in these times. I'm sure we'll eventually find someone that's right for both of us." Remember - nothing personal!

    - Keep all contact short and sweet - the shorter the better. As far as "The Loser" is concerned, you're always on your way somewhere, there's something in the microwave, or your mother is walking up the steps to your home.

    Wish "The Loser" well but always with the same tone of voice that you might offer to someone you have just talked to at the grocery store. For phone conversations, electronic companies make a handy gadget that produces about twenty sounds - a doorbell, an oven or microwave alarm, a knock on the door, etc. That little device is handy to use on the phone - the microwave dinner just came out or someone is at the door.
    Do whatever you have to do to keep the conversation short - and not personal.


    Summary
    In all of our relationships throughout life, we will meet a variety of individuals with many different personalities. Some are a joy to have in our life and some provide us with life-long love and security. Others we meet pose some risk to us and our future due to their personality and attitudes.

    Both in medicine and mental health - the key to health is the early identification and treatment of problems - before they reach the point that they are beyond treatment. In years of psychotherapy and counseling practice, treating the victims of "The Loser", patterns of attitude and behavior emerge in "The Loser" that can now be listed and identified in the hopes of providing early identification and warning.

    When those signs and indicators surface and the pattern is identified, we must move quickly to get away from the situation.

    Continuing a relationship with "The Loser" will result in a relationship that involves intimidation, fear, angry outbursts, paranoid control, and a total loss of your self-esteem and self-confidence.


    If you have been involved in a long-term relationship with "The Loser", after you successfully escape you may notice that you have sustained some psychological damage that will require professional repair. In many cases, the stress has been so severe that you may have a stress-produced depression.

    You may have severe damage to your self-confidence/self-esteem or to your feelings about the opposite sex or relationships. Psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors are available in your community to assist and guide you as you recover from your damaging relationship with "The Loser".


    Credit: This handout was written by Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D., a Clinical Psychologist. It is provided as a public service and can be reproduced as needed. Dr. Carver is in private practice in Southern Ohio and is affiliated with three regional hospitals.

    Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist
    Website: Joseph M Carver, Ph.D. - Clinical Psychologist
  • Jun 21, 2010, 11:09 AM
    eveamee09

    I've just been reading over your last post and the files you sent me with my Mum. We have been talking about them a lot (with regards to my relationship AND her relationship!) and we have both agreed that no matter what, people just don't change. I found myself earlier attempting to convince myself that my boyfriend might change, he might realise how awful he's been and that I deserve to be my own person and be treated better.. etc etc... but then I read the very important quote from above that I will always think of at these doubtful times:

    "Don't fall for sudden changes in behavior or promises of marriage, trips, gifts, etc. By this time you have already seen how "The Loser" is normally and naturally. While anyone can change for a short period of time, they always return to their normal behavior once the crisis is over."

    That is so true and so wise, and is what has to be repeated over and over again! Because, I know him. I have been there when he's been his normal self. I have been there when he's shouted at me, manipulated me, told me what to do, told me what was bad about myself and what I should be like. And I know it's not good, or how I want to be treated. I also know that he will probably treat me wonderfully for a few weeks, maybe months, possibly even a year, but once he feels like he's "got" me again, even if that's not until we're married, the worry of whether I would leave him probably wouldn't be there anymore and he would just revert back to his old ways.

    Thank you, this is such an important message, and has also helped my Mum a bit in her relationship too! Her husband's lovely but can be rather controlling at times (fits a few of the descriptions in the "control freak" file you sent me) so she's more aware of this now. Perhaps we should post the "control freak" file on here Marianne, it might help loads of other women too!

    Once again I cannot thank you enough. I hope your days have been good. How are you as well, Kit?
  • Jun 21, 2010, 11:56 AM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eveamee09 View Post
    I've just been reading over your last post and the files you sent me with my Mum. We have been talking about them a lot (with regards to my relationship AND her relationship!) and we have both agreed that no matter what, people just don't change. I found myself earlier attempting to convince myself that my boyfriend might change, he might realise how awful he's been and that I deserve to be my own person and be treated better.. etc etc... but then I read the very important quote from above that I will always think of at these doubtful times:

    "Don't fall for sudden changes in behavior or promises of marriage, trips, gifts, etc. By this time you have already seen how "The Loser" is normally and naturally. While anyone can change for a short period of time, they always return to their normal behavior once the crisis is over."

    That is so true and so wise, and is what has to be repeated over and over again! Because, I know him. I have been there when he's been his normal self. I have been there when he's shouted at me, manipulated me, told me what to do, told me what was bad about myself and what I should be like. And I know it's not good, or how I want to be treated. I also know that he will probably treat me wonderfully for a few weeks, maybe months, possibly even a year, but once he feels like he's "got" me again, even if that's not until we're married, the worry of whether I would leave him probably wouldn't be there anymore and he would just revert back to his old ways.

    Thank you, this is such an important message, and has also helped my Mum a bit in her relationship too! Her husband's lovely but can be rather controlling at times (fits a few of the descriptions in the "control freak" file you sent me) so she's more aware of this now. Perhaps we should post the "control freak" file on here Marianne, it might help loads of other women too!

    Once again I cannot thank you enough. I hope your days have been good. How are you as well, Kit?

    Remember... we're here... take a friend with you tomorrow... please!
  • Jun 21, 2010, 02:44 PM
    positiveparent
    Thanks for your comments Katie and Im pleased you're reading the files and even sharing them with your Mum, I am sure you'll be just fine torrow and as you know Ill be with you in spirit and mind. You can do it you will do it.

    Anyway here is the file named THE CONTROL FREAK I hope it is useful in helping others in abusive relationships.

    THE CONTROL FREAK
    In the beginning these relationships are wonderful - you think you finally met your dream person! But, the relationship deteriorates over time. The deterioration can occur over a few months or may take years.

    This pattern is opposite from the progression in a "normal" relationship, where people start slowly and grow to trust and love each other more over time.

    Insecure or shy people are most vulnerable to abusive partners.

    Controlling people are often expert pursuers. They are very big on charm, compliments, gifts, etc. They make you feel as though you are the most special person in the world. During this stage, they really think you are the most special person in the world. They can't be with you enough, can't go out of their way for you enough... until you're hooked. Then the party starts.
    The relationship is an emotional roller roaster. There is little peace. Just when things seem to be going well, the angry person somehow manages to pick a fight.

    The angry person usually doesn't take responsibility for creating the problem. Somehow, the partner is blamed, or is provoked to lose their temper

    When the angry person is bad, they are very, very bad. When they are good, they are very, very good. (They have to be - to make up for all their mis-behavior!)

    The angry person pursues when you have pulled back emotionally or are fed up with them.
    The angry person does not allow their partner to be angry with them. If you are angry at them, they get even angrier with you.

    Emotional trust and comeradie are lacking. The angry person does not know how to trust and the victim has no basis to trust.

    "Male role control works by physically, verbally, or emotionally destroying your partner's physical and emotional integrity so that she will be afraid to be herself, will control herself, and therefore be available to be controlled by YOU."

    Emotionally controlling behavior is implemented through verbal abuse, body language, and deprivation (withholding). These behaviors are "the way the abuser treats his partner"

    Abuse is always about CONTROL. Whether it is verbal abuse, emotional abuse, or physical abuse, IT IS ABOUT CONTROLLING YOUR PARTNER, subtly or openly.

    Check yourself out with these controlling behaviors or words:CONTROLLING HER TIME: The abuser controls his partner's time by making her wait. He will say he is ready to talk, but will continue doing something else while his partner waits. He will tell her he is ready to go to bed, then make her wait. If she complains of having to wait, he will blame her for "not having enough patience", "I have to wait on you too", or "Do you expect me just to drop everything!"-- thereby blaming her for HIS making her wait.

    This also commonly occurs when the abuser is called to a meal, family activity, or that everyone else is ready to leave. If the partner does something while waiting, the abuser will then angrily proclaim that "HE has been waiting on HER". A subtle way of controlling a partner's time is to leave most, if not all, of the work for her to do-then complaining about anything she does for herself, or what she does not get done.

    Other examples are procrastinating promised work (especially what she is counting on), "watching just one more program" or "playing one more game" (that goes on and on and on), refusing to give a simple and direct answer to concrete and direct questions (Are you going to do this or that. "We'll have to wait and see, I suppose, maybe, what do You think, I didn't know I was supposed to...why don't you figure it out!")

    The abuser may also control his partner's time by grandstanding. If she tells him she is unhappy about an incident, he will deny it happened, discount her feelings, or accuse her of trying to start a fight. He might also proclaim that "you're causing the problem by bringing it up," "no one else notices," "everyone else does, so why can't I,"

    Diverting, countering, blocking, "forgetting," forcing her to explain, making her repeat because the abuser was not listening or paying attention, and "prove it" are also common ways to control the partner's time and energy. It is rare that an abuser will be willing to discuss or negotiate HIS plan-to do so would be giving up control. This type of control is two-fold: Control her time in some way, any way, then blame HER for it.

    CONTROLLING HER MATERIAL RESOURCES: The verbal abuser may control one or all of his partner's material resources by WITHHOLDING information as well as by withholding work which he has promised to do, often by "forgetting", "I don't know how", or "I didn't know I had to". Another common practice of the abuser is to withhold needed money, then compound the abuse by forcing her to act on her own, beg, plead, or do without. He then begins blaming his withholding on her acting on her own, begging, pleading, or "trying to be a martyr." In more severe cases, the controlling abuser will keep money from his wife that is necessary for her survival and that of their family (whether it is the promised food budget money or his entire salary). He gives no thought to "spending his own money," or what his control and selfishness is doing to his wife and family who are either deprived of necessities or working desperately to support themselves while HE feels in control and free!

    CONTROLLING WITH BODY LANGUAGE AND GESTURES: The verbal abuser uses body language to control his partner, just as he uses words. The words and gestures often go together. This can be seen as using HIMSELF to control his partner. Following are some hurtful and intimidating ways of controlling that are forms of withholding and abusive anger:

    Sulking
    Stomping out
    Refusing to talk
    Walking away
    Refusing to give her something
    Hitting or kicking something
    Refusing to make eye contact
    Driving recklessly
    Boredom-crossed arms, eyes closed, head down, deep sighs
    Withdrawing or withholding affection
    Showing disgust-rolled eyes, deep sighs, inappropriate sounds
    Strutting and posturing

    CONTROLLING BY DEFINING HER REALITY: This form of control is very oppressive. When he tells his partner what reality is, he is playing God, he is discounting the partner's experience by defining "THE TRUTH"-which in fact is a LIE. Some examples: That's not what you said or That's not what I said or That's not what you did or That's not what I did or That's not what happened. That's not what you saw. That's not what you felt. That's not why you did it. I know you better than you know yourself!

    CONTROLLING BY MAKING HER RESPONSIBLE: By telling his partner she is responsible for his behavior, this verbal abuser attempts to avoid all responsibility for his own behavior. In other words, he avoids accountability by BLAMING. Examples include:
    I did it because you...
    You didn't remind me.
    You just don't see what I do.
    Just show me how
    Set a good example

    CONTROLLING BY ASSIGNING STATUS: Putting her down, especially on what she does best.
    Putting her up, praising or thanking her for trivial things rather than the big things she does, which demeans her talents, time, and energy, while implying she is best suited to do trivial or demeaning tasks. This category also includes statements such as: That right! You're a woman! (said with disgust) What makes you think you can do that? I'm the leader, the boss. You're not THAT stupid. Just THINK about it. ITS THAT'S SIMPLE.

    CONTROLLING BY DIMINISHING YOUR PARTNER:
    Belittling
    Laughing at or smirking
    Offensive jokes
    Mimicking your partner
    Patronizing
    Scornful, disdainful, contemptuous tone of voice
    Ignoring, "I'm not listening to you"
    Avoiding eye contact, turning away
    Expecting partner to talk to you while you're watching TV, reading, game playing
    Words like "Sooo" or "So what!" or "That means NOTHING to me" or "Whatever"
    Bafflegabbing - talking in ways intended to mislead or baffle your partner
    Insulting your partner
    Making inappropriate sounds
    Making inappropriate facial expressions-rolled eyes, grimaces, deep sighs
    Starting a sentence then stating, "Forget it.."
    Accusing her of being "controlling", "having to have the last word"

    CONTROLLING behaviors such as those above are used by verbal abusers to gain feelings of power and control whenever the suppressed fear and pain in his own life start to "seep out" - terrified of not being in control, terrified of "feeling," terrified of her leaving.

    Author Unknown
  • Jun 21, 2010, 02:50 PM
    eveamee09

    Hi, I can't take a friend with my tomorrow as she's busy, and also I don't see the point as I'm not worried about getting hurt (it's a relatively public place) and if a friend is there it will be pressuring and I'll feel like I have a time limit as I'd be keeping her waiting. I don't think having a friend there would affect my decision or the way I react to what he says, so I'm going to go on my own. I am going straight round to her house afterwards though and obviously later I will speak to you both on here so I will keep you updated. Thanks for your support, I know you'd prefer it if I took a friend but I don't feel that it would suit me in this situation! I am going to bed soon. I feel absolutely terrified about tomorrow.. I wish I knew what will happen and how I am going to feel when I see him... I just need to STAY STRONG and remember all the reasons this is happening! Speak soon x
  • Jun 21, 2010, 02:50 PM
    eveamee09

    I've only just seen your post Marianne so I'll read it now x
  • Jun 21, 2010, 03:30 PM
    eveamee09

    Thanks guys, I'll be on in the morning. Have a good night and speak tomorrow. You've both helped a lot. Night x
  • Jun 21, 2010, 05:45 PM
    Kitkat22

    Good luck
  • Jun 21, 2010, 06:36 PM
    positiveparent

    I hope you have a good sleep and wake up feeling fresh and raring to go, before you do say a few self affirmations to help you. Yes Good Luck, and go for it.
  • Jun 21, 2010, 06:39 PM
    Kitkat22

    You'll be fine!
  • Jun 21, 2010, 07:56 PM
    positiveparent

    Coping strategys
    1.Grieve for what you have lost: ending a relationship is a loss that needs to be worked through, even if being together made you unhappy. Often, we are encouraged to 'forget them and move on', but this will only keep your ex firmly on your mind.

    2.Seize the advantages of being single: as a single person, you have total control over what you do and where you go in your life. Start making plans to take advantage of your new freedom.

    3.Mobilise your support system: being with friends and family allows you to vent your emotions as you sort through your life. They can also help you see how much you are loved and needed in your own right.

    4.Reinvent yourself: get a haircut, change your look or take up something you've always fancied. Just don't do anything rash that you may later regret, such as leaving your job.

    5.Sort out your financial affairs: breaking up can be stressful from a financial point of view. You may be left paying the rent or mortgage, or have to find a new place to live. If you're finding things a stretch, get some professional financial advice.

    6.Accept you'll have down times: don't expect everything to be fine and dandy. Prepare yourself for some lonely moments, but remind yourself that they will pass and you will be happy again.

    7.Set goals: one of the worst things about ending a relationship is seeing your future as a blank slate that was once filled with potential. Set new goals, be they work ones, travel ones or ones that broaden your life.

    8.Let yourself be happy: single life may not be your ideal, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. Say yes to invites, make plans for your social life and work on finding a new way of living that pushes you out of your comfort zone now and again.

    Five signs you're in a dead-end relationship
  • Jun 21, 2010, 08:02 PM
    Kitkat22

    Let us know how things turn out!
  • Jun 21, 2010, 11:35 PM
    eveamee09

    Thank you, I want to click "agree" for most of your posts but it won't let me because I haven't "spread enough reputation" or something!

    Not quite feeling the nerves yet, I've had to get up really early to help out as my Mum's going to an eye app. At the hosp. today so I've got to get my little brother ready for school and let the decorator man in, not ideal for today really is it! But never mind, I will go back to bed soon! Due to all this I'm thinking more about being tired than breaking up with him. I'm sure the nerves will set in later when I wake up for a second time. Thanks for all your luck, I will keep everything you've both said and everyone else has said in mind and keep POSITIVE! :D
  • Jun 22, 2010, 03:22 AM
    eveamee09

    I am leaving in half an hour. Pretty nervous now! Will let you know later what happens.
  • Jun 22, 2010, 08:28 AM
    eveamee09
    He is absolutely devastated. And I mean devastated. The way he was, you'd actually think that somebody had just told him that his whole family had died. It was horrible and nasty and cruel and I feel SICK and I feel like screaming and I feel like I want all this pain to go away. It's an actual physical ache, I can't explain it, I HATE IT

    At first when I saw him I started to cry a little bit, but quite subtly. He was okay, we just talked about exams and our families in a very normal and stranger-ish way. It was odd. No emotions were really that obvious, and he was being really strong and positive. It felt weird to see him again but I didn't get any overwhelming desires to go rushing back into his arms or anything.

    Then we got onto the subject of our relationship. It began with me telling him how bad the controlling things he's done are, such as telling me what to wear and not letting me go clubbing etc. I told him that I'd been clubbing last week and worn a bikini, and that I was fine and enjoyed it and want to do what I want to do. At this stage he still seemed very hopeful and clearly looked as though he thought we were together on the right track.

    Then we sat down on the wall by the lake, and I can't remember what happened but I eventually told him I didn't want the relationship anymore because of our differences and his behaviour, and that despite the fact I still love him it would never work. It was odd, at first he got really frustrated with himself because he said he wasn't expressing himself properly, then he was telling me all about how he is so so willing to make me happy and adapt and change and become much more receptive to what I want and feel. When I said no to this, he kept telling me that I didn't understand what he was saying and how much he actually means it, he started to cry, so walked off, then came back, cried more, shouted really loudly in the corner and then cried again quite badly. I didn't know what to do. He tired to hug me and I resisited, but then he got so so upset and was really clearly in a lot of pain so somehow I let him and we hugged and he kept trying to hold my hand and just cling onto me basically. We were both crying a lot by this stage. I felt really guilty and bad for hugging him and at the time I knew it was wrong, but it was like I couldn't help it. I did try to resist but it made him so upset I couldn't help it.

    There was obviously a lot of conversation going on between all this, with him asking me questions and us talking about things. I made it very clear that I was serious about my decision and that hugging wouldn't help and seeing me wouldn't help... it was like he couldn't bear to let go of me, also he couldn't look at me, when he did look at me he just broke down... then he would pull himself together for a moment but seconds later it would be bad again. It was horrid. At one point he got so upset that I told him to sit there for a minute and I went and phoned his best friend and his brother to tell them what had happened and that I didn't want to leave him on his own, so could they make sure they were with him afterwards.

    Then he got a little embarrassed for being so upset, but soon later the tears just came again and it was getting torturous for both of us. But at the same time he didn't want me to leave. It's odd, I didn't expect him to be so understanding of my feelings (he actually listened to me and accepted that this is what I want) but at the same time he couldn't bear to let go. I keep crying and then stopping and then we'd cry again.. it got to the point where I really wanted to leave because nothing was getting any better. When I suggested going he got really upset and reluctant to let me leave, so I stayed a bit longer by the lake and we sat and talked and he hugged me more and he tried to kiss me but I said no, so instead he kissed my hair and just hugged me. It was absolutely heartbreaking. I've never seen somebody cry like this, especially not somebody as strong and together as he normally is, and his love for me is so evident and expressive, it's just terribly painful.

    I honestly don't think you can understand how much he loves me. He is clearly still "in" love; I think I'd moved out of that stage of being in love and instead just loved him, but he is SO IN LOVE and SO DEVASTATED.

    I KNOW this is against all the "rules" but in order to get him to calm down and for me to leave I agreed that I would speak to him on the phone every now and again and that we'd meet next week after I come back from my break with my best friend. It felt very bad and very wrong and not what I want deep down (even though on the surface I feel clingy too and want to see him again) but at the time I sort of had to agree to it. Saying no wasn't really an option. I couldn't be that nasty, he probably would have jumped in the lake. I suppose next week I can always say that meeting up isn't a good idea, even if it is just on a mutual basis (he accepts we're not together but still wants to "have happy times" and do nice things together). He told me that he'd been so selfish and uncaring about my needs, he said he'd let me wear bikinis if I want to and go clubbing if that's what I want, and that he wanted to sleep with me again as cutting it out and hurting me like that in the first place was the wrong thing to do.

    I miss him a lot. It's odd, I still know this is the right decision as long-term he'll never change, and there isn't a happy future there, but the feelings of love, care, passion and emotion are overwhelming and I so badly have a strong desire to give in and go away with him for a few days or something. I know this is awful and I doubt I'd do that after all of this, but I just feel like such a cruel person, and feel like I should feel LUCKY to have someone adore me this much and be so desperate to keep me and give me all that I want. I just feel like a bit of a mess right now. I don't know how I'm ever going to forget his face and the way he was when he was telling me how much he loved me, would never want to so much as touch another woman and that if he did all he'd think about would be me. THIS IS TORTURE

    Sorry for the exceptionally long message by the way.
  • Jun 22, 2010, 08:33 AM
    eveamee09

    By the way I know in my heart that at some point soon the best thing for both of us (him as well) would be for us to go no-contact to let him heal, but I genuinely don't think he's quite ready for that now. If I started ignoring him at this stage I think he might actually go crazy. Even though no contact would do me good, I really believe that right now it wouldn't do him any good. OH MY GOD I MISSS HIMMMMMMMM I want to screaaam
  • Jun 22, 2010, 09:38 AM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eveamee09 View Post
    By the way I know in my heart that at some point soon the best thing for both of us (him as well) would be for us to go no-contact to let him heal, but I genuinely don't think he's quite ready for that now. If I started ignoring him at this stage I think he might actually go crazy. Even though no contact would do me good, I really believe that right now it wouldn't do him any good. OH MY GOD I MISSS HIMMMMMMMM I want to screaaam




    I really don't know what to say. I expected anything but this. I feel sorry for him and I feel sad for you. I really don't know what to say.
  • Jun 22, 2010, 10:45 AM
    eveamee09

    Yes I am really rather confused too. I am so lost with all this. A part of me really wants to give him another chance but I am so scared as I don't think he could definitely change.. I don't know.. I feel so sick right now and can't stop crying :( GRRRRRRR But people don't change right? That's what you've all been telling me :(

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