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Yes there is a specturm. Mind you I serisouly question the cognitive capabilities of every being. I still ponder on the idea that every one is cognitively in capable of telling the difference between right or wrong. But that is off topic and unimportant. Sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
May peace and kindness be with you
I'm not sure what Freud had termed that specific concept, but I'd like to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrewolfe
To put it lightly, she was "abused" by her immediate family as well as friends of the family. This resulted in a pattern of behaviour that was cyclical throughout her life. With me, she admitted that it was different because she was starting to understand that I was the only person who actually did care for her and that I was patient with her and all her symptoms. This realization, I should mention, dawned on her only through her involvement with therapy and she wouldn't have been able to see this unless she participated. I took this as a positive sign, and you can see why I thought my outcome would not be what it was. In the end, you naturally give these people all the power in the relationship, and this is what I resent the most after it's all said and done.
Hopefully, you'll be able to keep sabrewolfe. It sounds cooler!
The psychologists and psychiatrists who were my instructors in grad school had their own practices on the side, and saw clients/patients of all types, with all degrees of mental illness. They didn't just sit in their offices and read professional journals containing studies of neurotics. How informed can they be? Quite informed! They were down in the trenches nearly every day and could tell war stories until the cows came home.Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
To what end? Say you discover she has a vast array of personality disorders. Does that invalidate all of her feelings? Will you modify anything she needs you to modify? You asked for experience so here's mine. I'm pretty sure my ex has some psych issues. I'm positive I do. We both did our best to compromise. I'll admit toward the end I felt like I was walking on egg shells a bit more than she was but we both ended up walking on egg shells. Our relationship was emotionally expensive to the both of us. I wasn't done but close. She was done. Truth is, we were both seeking to improve each other. That was our first mistake. In the end we both felt manipulated and controlled. By diagnosing your SO and catering to what you deem an illness you are not being true to yourself or her. As positive a spin as you'd like to place on it, you are attempting to manipulate her. I'm in total agreement with Wondergirl. I'd also like to say that you are too close, too far in this to properly help her. You can recommend treatment but that's it. You can't save people. This is from experience and that's what you wanted. Having firm boundaries simply prevents you from losing yourself. Most of us give a little up for relationships and when they end we resent doing it for said person. Good luck. I don't mean to sound judgmental but it's late and you seem to be avoiding good advice from Wondergirl.
I think most people know the difference between right and wrong. They just choose to ignore it for personal gain. Though, there are some people who can't even understand the concept of right and wrong. I think this is attributed to loss of brain function through injury or through abnormal neurological/brain development. But yeah, this is what is fascinating about psychology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestorian
Yeah, we are getting off topic here.
I understand that. But is it not even slightly true that most theories of personality besides, Cattell/Allport, maybe Eysenck and Big 5 theories (I'm trying to remember names here, don't quote me. You'd know better than I do) are based on clinical studies of neurotic patients? And don't these clinical studies lay the groundwork for the theories that psychologists/psychiatrists employ when they try to make diagnoses of various patients? Not trying to undermine it (psychology). But it is based on inner mental processes that can't necessarily be observed or verified. Isn't this where Skinner et al jumped into the fray?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Also, all your advisors from grad school should be able to attest that it's very unusual for "normal" people to submit themselves to therapy, etc. So wouldn't all their war stories be related to "neurotics" instead of "normals"? Isn't this a fundamental assumption that is acknowledged throughout the study of personality psychology and its various sub-disciplines?
That is very possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrewolfe
Not that I know of.
None of my girlfriends feelings are invalid, she has a hard time expressing them in a healthy, productive way. Im not trying to fix her either, just to learn how to deal with her behaviour. Wondergirl had nothing to offer this thread. Im not catering to her illness, Im loving my girlfriend. I guess if she became deaf, and I had to learn sign language to communicate with her better, that would be catering to her hearing disorder and not being true to myself, right? I might even resent her for having to take the time to learn it if we split up.Quote:
Originally Posted by inertia
I disagree. How many people would you consider as most? Because form what I can tell, Most people don't know the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
THe only real difference between right and wrong is one's own perspective. Yes I did just make that up, but in all honesty it seems pretty logical to me.
Please continue that on another thread. Thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Nestorian
I think the term is "amora" from Freud, but don't quote me on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
My girlfriend came from a very loving, supportive family with no abuse or anything. She had a great childhood. I don't know of anything in her past that would have influenced her behaviour.
I think that everyone interprets events in their lives differently than others, so even if she comes from a loving family, she could have issues that could explain why she is the way she is. People have different thresholds for pain, for example. So something that would not alarm some people or cause someone to have psychological problems would for someone else have the opposite effect. It's hard to say really. The human mind and how it relates to and processes stress is hard to understand. But one thing is certain, and that is that our past and current experiences do have an affect on our future and current personalities.
Do you have any other insights or contextual info about you, your woman or your relationship that could help?
Actually, have you ever heard of electrods? These elsctrods go into the brain and when fired up, depending upon where the electrod is placed they can stimulate a vast majority of experences. From what I've read on "neurology", they can even take an entire hemasphear out, and the patient will seem unaffected. For how many years who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
Skinner was good but not technilogically advanced enough to test the brain.
YouTube - Brain Plasticity
They had to of known that the brain was behaving erratically in one side be for they cut the other out. They needed to know he mental processes that were making her behave like that. They are getting much more specific now though. They can even tell what a person is thinking by placing a specail elsctrod like instrament in the exposed brain and then, when you think or as you think, it records what is going on. I can't recall where that all came from but I would much apprecieate it if some one finds it to tell me where.
Peace and kindness
You mean me?Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
Of course, but it's all far too much to just blab on about, and it's up to the OP to recognize the importance of any of it. I won't post it unless he is really going to read it as it may take up a lot of room on this thread, and I'd hate to make the thread abou me.
Believe me, I've bin studying people since I was 5, my family wsa always fighting, and I wasa always under a lot of stress, and asking, why all the time. But not of other people. Of myself. Critical thinking is not easy, but if you're like me, it seems almost necessarry, and at the same time way more complex. For the simple fact that I don't just look at things from my perspective, but as many as I can understand. Very confusing, and most don't have the patients for it.
So OP do you want to know what I have that may or may not be of use to you?
No worries, I don't blame you if you don't.
Peace and kindness bewith you.
Well, as far as me personally, I came from a very abusive upbringing, and not to say I have no flaws, I have a pretty good handle on things. Im very patient, assertive, understanding, trusting, etc. I took to my beliefs in God to learn the things I wasn't taught growing up. I was married, have three children from that relationship, my children are happy and healthy.
My girlfriend in my opinion has been enabled by her parents all her life. When ever she got herself into problems, they bailed her out. Where as I was usually always on my own to have to face things myself.
She has been in relationships before where she acted very similar to them the way she does me.
I think it's a bit unfair to say that Sabrewolf is trying to manipulate his girlfriend. My understanding is that he's exploring what other people's experiences are with PD's so he can better understand what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by inertia
He's doing the research. Nothing wrong with that. That's what these sites are for.
He's also trying to form a picture of what her behavior might mean - is that a diagnosis?
I don't know. But even if it is, so what? Surely he has to put some sort of name to it if he's going to start to deal with his response to it.
I don't see anywhere that he wants to 'save' her or improve her. He just wants to know how to live with her and not feel abused and bullied. Surely we would all want that improvement in our relationships?
Oh sure now you come to the dark side. Haha. Kist playing guys. It's way to serious in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
You know what they say, the best cure for a lame situation is laughter.
YouTube - dane cook: B & E (censored) There that'll make you laugh.
True love, can be many things. Every one has their opinion, experiences, interpretation, and perceptions about it.
True, as defined at: true definition | Dictionary.com
1. being in accordance with the actual state or conditions; conforming to reality or fact; not false: a true story.
2. real; genuine; authentic: true gold; true feelings.
3. sincere; not deceitful: a true interest in someone's welfare.
4. firm in allegiance; loyal; faithful; steadfast: a true friend.
Love as defined at: love definition | Dictionary.com
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
Lets say love is a firm genuine, deep affection and loyalty that is built upon a profoundly passionate faithful belief in the binding of two people's lives. Forever they will be attached in one form or another. Personally I would argue that there is also a point to which one may need to learn to let go of a love, simply because only if you truly love some one/ thing will you find the strength to let them go of your own free will. I think that is important, because it lets people know that we don't have to be together just because we "have to", but we stay together because we want to. Also some times, the one's we want to stay with, don't want to stay with us, and so we have to accept that so we can move on. There maybe "soul mates", but it's not clear as to whether we develop, and grow into such, or if it's predetermined for us. Maybe finding our soul mate has more to do with finding ourselves, and in doing so can finally attract our soul mates. Very mysterious is the world that we pretend to know.
Lust= Passion, sex drive and hormones. One night stands, or meaningless flings. (The people that do this seem to show very little self respect, and tend to "...act kinda proud with no respect for themselves." P.O.D.- Youth of the nation)
Love= Passion, sex drive, hormones, enjoy a person's company/ personality, and some respect. (Actually, I think this may be most relationships in our world. In love, but not so willing to see the difference between them self and their lover, and what their relationship really means. There are different types, levels and kinds of Love at this level. Like the women who loves her man so much even when he hits her, or when the man loves his women but she cheats on him. Then there is the couple that is relatively happy together, but don't really grow, or progress because they are too different, or a like, or just don't work well together. )
True Love= The one you will spend your life with, while there is time left to spend. You understand that you may not be together forever, but still live for the moment. You are comfortable with each other, and yourselves. Grow together, and progress in life, due to a healthy balance. When there is a split, it is on good terms, hard, painful still but good. (The "good" split is not to be confused with a careless, reckless, and respect-less split. It is not like the couple who splits and stay's friends and cheats on their new partners with the one they are splitting on good terms with. I might argue that true friends are in true love.)
Soul Mates= True Love + Forever being with your lover as your lover will forever be with you. The one you are dedicated to until death do you part. Perhaps the one you will follow into the after life, what ever it maybe. Know yourself, and you will know your soul mate.
As to whether I believe these... They are possibilities, just like anything, everything, nothing, and something else...
will everyone find love?
That is dependent, do we count the love of GOD as some believe, the Love one feels for themselves, The love of a family or friends?
Love is not all about passion and sex. It's more complicated, and it also depends where what your cultural back ground is. I some times think that is why people are so confused about love, because they feel the same feeling for some one they love as for some one they want to just have sex with. That heated passion, and so on. But love is more than that, it's about connection, and being able to be with the one you love with out invading who they are. So often people get messed up by their feelings saying, "Oh look at this new exciting prospect of adventure..." Then the morals and spiritual guidance kicks in, "This is not right, I may be attracted, but i don't know this person. It's very dangerous, STDs, rape, murder, and so on. I deserve to be treated better then a fluzy, sex toy." Then it's a perpetual war waged within the confines of your own mind. These days people seem more prone to act on basic instinct and feelings than reason, and honorable intentions. Don't get me wrong, that's just an over generalization. There are still people who do care about what happens to one another, and do seem to be happy even after just a one night stand, but not always. Haha I guess I've been hanging around too many rough necks eh? Haha, welders, mill laborers, and such.
All I've given you is just my opinion. No real evidence saying nor suggesting its true.
Peace and kindness be with you.
“If you love someone, does it mean you would be able to let them go and be happy with someone else? Even if its hard as hell for you?”- none12345
You may consider following this, Forgive yourself for past mistakes. Or it will be hard to know yourself. If you can not forgive yourself and thus let go of the past, you may only end up in situations that are too familiar and using your illusions II make things seem good when they are not. As Guns 'N' Roses play,
"Cause yesterday's got nothin' for me
Old pictures that I'll always see
Some things could be better
If we'd all just let them be..."
Forgive yourself, then you can begin to know yourself. No it is very unlikely that we will ever know our self's entirely, for it's an on going progression that lasts through out our entire being, or so it is seems that such advice is important to keep in mind. When we get to know ourselves, we get to understand the connection we have and share with others. Whether it's, a lover, friend, the vary air we breath, the food we eat, the substances we put in our bodies, and the balance between all. Like I said, how can we know our soul mate if we don't know ourselves. So, if we break up with one lover and wish to improve our ability to be in a healthy relationship, then perhaps the best way to do this is by first getting to be ourselves. That means know yourself, and you shall know Love. It can be seen as not true, but I believe that is, for the most part, if you use your illusions II make things seem other than they are. If you can not be honest with yourself, you can not be honest with others.
Love yourself, this is very hard for most, on account that we all have such high expectations for ourselves and one another. This one is very touchy and hard to deal with since it's a very powerful emotion. We tend to try and tighten our grip on it, but no matter how tight to grip it, it just runs through our hands like sand. We become addicted to Love, and in the book "The brain that changes it'self" it is compared to the drug Cocaine. While we have our love, or in my best interpretation that which seems to invoke the feeling of "Love"/"Euphoria", we are "happy". Then we start to associate things with that "Love". Should we loose that "love", we become depressed and miss that “love” dearly.
This is the complex part, we feel euphoric because the pleasure centers in the Septal region of the Limbic system is turned on. This makes us associate what we experience, good or Bad, with the feeling of pleasure. When we are "in Love", on a "manic High" (term for people who have a mental illness called Mania, or bipolar.), or if we are under the influence of cocaine; the threshold at which our pleasure centers will fire is lowered, making it easier for them to turn on. "Neurons that fire together wire together." (this term implies that while the threshold of our pleasure centers is lowered, we associate what ever we do/see/think/feel/smell and generally experience with Pleasure.) Now, the pleasure center has another name, "the appetitive pleasure system" ("Appetitive: 1. An instinctive physical desire, especially one for food or drink. 2. A strong wish or urge: an appetite for learning." - Appetitive - definition of Appetitive by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.) The reason for the strong urge or instinctive physical desire is because the appetitive pleasure system is a dopamine-based system associated with the pleasure of anticipating something we desire.
So now, when we separate from our "love" for too long we suffer from with drawl and the things that we associated with our "love", rather than bringing us happy feelings, they taunt us and serve as a dark reminder of the love we lost. That can change over time, but when the separation is new, it's really hard to look past the pain, and illusions we create. Generally after losing a love, the pleasure center isn't functioning the same, so they crash and begin craving their "love", get anxious, doubt themselves, lose their energy, and feel rundown if not depressed. Like the junky getting a small fix, a letter, e-mail, text message, or telephone message from our "love" gives us that old shot of energy and joy.
Relationships that are regular and routine, well the dopamine in our systems likes novelty, so we have to keep things rather fresh and new, exciting or our brains get bored. They need stimulation, and I've come to wonder if people who have relationship troubles and drink or do drugs regularly, aren't linked to this idea of new and fresh. See, when we do drugs, drink alcohol, we kill brain cells and make it hard for the brain to learn new things. That is only in relative terms though, and a whole new story.
I may be repeating some stuff, sorry about that, but here is more to the psychological perspective on Neurological explanation of addiction/love. I'm having a hard time finding where to start for your Sexual behaviour, and how to use the porn addiction section in the book to explain it. I hope this helps.
"Ok, so we have a pleasure center located in the limbic system, a part of the brain heavily involved in processing emotion, and a Dr. Robert Heath did experiments on humans in this area. He took electrodes, the brain doesn't have feeling, and put them into the septal region of the limbic system and turned it on, the patient would then experience a powerful euphoria, so powerful that one patient pleaded with them not to stop. This same region fires up when pleasant subjects were discussed and during orgasm. These pleasure centers were found to be part of the brain's reward system, the mesolimbic dopamine system.
When the pleasure center is turned on everything we experience gives us pleasure. Cocaine lowers the threshold at which our pleasure centers will fire, making it easier for them to turn on. The three reasons our pleasure center's thresholds are lowered are we do a drug like Cocaine, have a manic high (Manics, bipolar.), or we are in love.
If a person gets high on Cocaine, becomes manic, or falls in love, they enter an enthusiastic state and are optimistic about everything, because all three will lower the firing threshold for the appetitive pleasure system, the dopamine-based system associated with the pleasure of anticipating something we desire. They are sensitive to anything that may give them pleasure, and are filled with hopeful anticipation. Things like nature, flowers, grass, sunshine inspire them; small but thoughtful gestures allow them to delight in all man kind. Doidge, the writer of "the brain that changes it'self", calls this process "Globalization".
Globalization allows us to take more pleasure in the world, and inhibits pain, displeasure, or aversion. Things that normally bother us, don't. We love being in love not only because it makes it easier for us to be happy but also because it makes it harder for us to be unhappy.
Globalization allows us to learn new things easier too; because when we are "in love" we are "happy, and it's harder to be unhappy, we like things we normally don't", and the dopamine helps the brain consolidate "Neuroplasticity". (plastic is the brains ability to rearrange it's neuro-connections to accommodate, the addition of information, sub traction, brain damage, "Hemisphere-ectimy" (I'm not sure how to spell it, YouTube - Brain Plasticity), and various other brain related issues.)
Freud once described the elated effects of cocaine to his fiancee, Martha, in letters. He says, he feels fearless, not fatigued, less shy, increased self esteem, no longer depressed, euphoric, enhances his energy, enthusiasm, and has an aphrodisiac effect. He was describing a state akin to "romantic intoxication". The book says in both cases, the Cocaine high, and "romantic Intoxication" may impair one's judgment. Recent fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) scans of lovers looking at photos of their sweethearts show that a part of the brain with great concentrations of dopamine is activated; their brains looked like those of people on cocaine.
When separated for too long, lovers crash and experience withdrawal, crave their beloved, get anxious, doubt them selves, lose their energy, and feel run-down if not depressed. Like a little fix a letter, and e-mail, or a telephone message from the beloved provides and instant shot of energy. Should they brake up, they get depressed- the opposite of the manic high...
After a time of being with some one, the brain doesn't produce that dopamine like before, if they adapt to well to each other. Dopamine likes novelty. (From NESTORAIN: Some people might say that their spouse/partner is too dull, but really they are just addicted to the unpredictability, and excitement that comes with exploration of a new place. You can do what you'd like here, but it may be wise to try and spice it up a bit, be random some times, spontaneous, and take time away from one another so you both don't get "tired" of one another.) Dr.Doidge believes that this means their "plastic" brains have so well adapted to each other that it's harder for them to get the same buzz they once got from each other.
Dr. Doidge also suggests if this happens to inject novelty into the relationship. Try new activities together, or wear new kinds of clothing, surprise one another. Pretty much keep the brain working, entertained, and learning fresh new things." _ The brain that changes it'self by Dr. Norman Doidge M.D.
I hope that helps, I didn't quite quote the book, but I did paraphrase, and used some lines right from it. Those were just pages 113-116. There is so much more to this chapter on love, mind you it does go into details on porn addiction, sexual perversions and how they may work/happen. Very interesting, as it is the chapter on Acquiring tastes and loves. Very interesting stuff, but if you're not into that, I guess not eh!
I believe that's very possible, but when I looked up the symptoms, they seemed to match the disorders. The spoiling may have developed the disorder or even be the disorder itself. In that case, any suggestions or other input?Quote:
Originally Posted by itried
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