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-   -   Should I buy my girlfriend a car, or risk things being over (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=491788)

  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:28 AM
    SamBuzz

    (No surprises to follow, but there is one last question... For anyone reading this who is in the middle of dealing with an emotional manipulator, or a habitual liar, I detail this, it seems a prime example of many points of how this is done... Look before you leap... Don't look for an oasis beneath a swamp... )
    (And for the hecklers who think my writing this is just attention seeking on my part: No this isn't jerry springer... Think investigative journalism on my own situation, to document it, as yet another warning post for others who might be experiencing parts of this, to help them see just how bad these situations can get... Thanks for those who can appreciate how painful it is to go through this, and how journalling about it helps, trying to turn the sleeplessness and rumination in my head into something of use to others, your feedback has been helpful... )

    Yesterday I spoke with an old girlfriend who is now into giving hypnosis therapy for healing. I met with her a month ago to talk to her about what is happening. She is very kind and very into loving people, but could give no benefit of the doubt to the things my girlfriend is doing. She told me my girlfriend sounds a lot like her sister, and she had to give up on trying to help her sister.

    Yesterday I asked her some questions about my girlfriends weed habit. My girlfriend will claim that she only smokes $20 of weed a week. For me, just one or two puffs of a joint, plus sitting in the second hand smoke of her finishing the whole thing, will send me into lala land for about 4 hours. However, I watched as my girlfriend claims an entire blunt only gets her high for an hour. I've also watched her go through 2 or 3 blunts in one sitting. She claims she has no appetite without smoking weed, and claims she can go almost a whole day on one very small meal if she doesn't smoke weed. She frequently smokes weed to have enough appetite to eat before our restaurant dates.

    According to my friend, each blunt is about $20 of weed, and someone who can smoke three in a day, and only gets high for an hour, that is very heavy usage. My friend said it isn't worth it to only have a high for an hour, weed can be good as medicine, but used as a drug the girlfriend has built up a lot of resistance. Her opinion is that my girlfriends drug habit is quite heavy. My friend said she had to kick out a boyfriend who was going through hundreds of dollars of weed a month but not working.

    When I was going out with my friend 15 years ago, it seemed to me like she lived to smoke weed, and we tried to have a business together, but she was too busy dreaming on the weed to actually get much work done, and that frustrated me. I needed a do-er to help me in my business, not a dreamer. But these days she said she smokes very little (she has a pot card), and she actually feels "sloppy" when she smoked some at a concert recently. It's nice to hear that in 15 years, some people can outgrow their weed habit.

    I told her about some of the insights I've gained from two or three times I've smoked weed with my girlfriend into how screwed up her head must be. Weed smokers might look like they are functioning OK, they might look like they function better than drunks, but the inside of their head must be like a house full of funhouse mirrors...

    And weed is not the only habit. My girlfriend has admitted to liking to drink a lot, margaritas, patron, etc. She's a tall girl, big bones, can probably handle a lot just from that alone... She gets upset that I don't drink when we are out, it makes her feel uncomfortable she has claimed. I isn't judging anyone, no one else seems to worry whether the cranberry juice I have includes alcohol... She's been telling me recently how a former motorcycle club associate called her up to have a drink, but may have tried to drug her drink. She told me of another time she felt a little funny after part of a drink she was given, then gave it to her friend who got knocked for a loop and said, "wow, yeah smoething in that..." So she is constantly on guard for this kind of thing in the crowd she runs in. Maybe part of the reason she won't let me come and party in her crowd. What a life, huh?

    Perhaps one aspect of interest in her is that her life is so different... Need to realize that is what reality TV is for, and it's free even.

    Soapbox Sidebar: And no, this friend I mention was never a sex worker. She was a college student at the time, I mentored her in web publishing at the beginning of the web era, and she has been very thankful over the years for my giving her something that she supported herself with for a long time... So for those hecklers who insinuate I only know how to have relationships with those women who are less than me, shove it. Picking someone who seems to have an interested in being helped to better their life, and sharing things with them to try to help them isn't a bad thing in and of itself... Jennifer Lopez has a song "Cherry Pie" where she sings "In a strange way you turn me on.... I told myself not to fall for you because I can see that you dont follow rules, I should have just walked away, but your eyes were telling me to stay, Damn.. Why do the wild ones turn me on.. like driving fast, you ought to try it... A real rebel kind of fun, the kind I would never trust... its funny how those kind of guys have a way of getting what they want, and even good girls, eventhough they try, they just can't seem to stay away, damn, why do the wild ones turn me on"... There are plenty of songs and threads from guys who say "Some of the wildest most active sex partners I have had were the most mentally out there women I've met"... Anyhow, go listen to the song, and get another idea other than psychobabble about "low esteem" as the only reason men have a relationship with someone the rest of the world looks down on. It might be one reason, but it isn't the only reason... Off soap box... Sorry... )

    So at least I have some better insights from a "professional" into to that aspect of my girlfriends life.

    And she also said if I don't break this off, then she also considers me a prime candidate for serious mental health treatment.

    I have followed up with the bank, and their fraud department wanted me to go to my girlfriend and find out if she had used the bank card.

    I saw her yesterday evening. Coincidentally, she called me claiming that yesterday she lost a pouch containing several of her charge cards and atm cards and money. She wondered if she had dropped it off with me with some food in the morning, but there was no such pouch in the bag with the food. We rode to her job so she could check at her job to see if the pouch fell out of her purse. For 10 minutes she ranted about how she had torn her apartment apart looking for it, torn apart the dumpster, blamed the guy, wondered if I took it, and talked about how angry she was about this.

    I told her that the bank had called me over some charges against one of my accounts. As soon as I brought it up, she told me I was lying. I calmly told her the locations and dates of the ATM withdrawals ("Wow, thats near where I work" she said in surprise) and the Lucky's shopping on her birthday.

    She made me repeatedly explain the circumstances, amounts, dates, "How could that happen? I never asked for a card for your personal account." I explained this all happened with the card that was issued for the joint account we created. Thanks Wells Fargo for making a mess of things by hooking the card to the wrong account! Lucky it wasn't one of the accounts with real money in it.

    All mail for the joint account, including both of our ATM cards, was supposed to go to her address. As I explained repeatedly to the fraud department dumbfounded by why I would have an ATM card mailed to her address, I had specified at the bank when we opened the account, the ATM cards issued were supposed to be only for that particular account, not for any of the other accounts either of us have at the bank. We wanted all mail concerning the account to go to her address (actually her grandfathers address). I wanted this to be entirely separate from my other accounts at the bank.

    The bank mailed the card, and separately a PIN. Both had my name on them, and someone would have had to put them together to activate and then use the card.

    The fraud department demanded that I go to the post office and file a report, and to the police department to make a report.

    The bank had told me there were two attempts to activate the card. One from her grandfathers house phone, and the final attempt that worked was from the girlfriends cell phone. I did not tell her that I knew that.

    She asked more than once how could someone do this? I explained how cards are activated either through use at the ATM, or over the phone. She pretended not to know.

    She swore up and down she didn't access any of my accounts, she didn't receive the card. I told her I wasn't accusing her of that, I was only saying the facts that someone other than me did this, was not authorized by me to do this, and I was talking to her about it as the bank asked me to. I told her my next step was to go to the police and make a report. She said sure, go and do that.

    I asked again, point blank, more than once, was there any mail for me with my name on it. "Oh no...." Any chance you could have gotten it and confused it with your own card? "No Sam, i never got a card for that account." You didn't activate any card recently? "Oh no..." The only card I used for my birthday stuff was my own card from my job, here you can listen to the bank robot say all the recent charges... "

    I told her no problem, then I would go ahead and make a report to the police, and they could sort it out. I mentioned at the ATM machines there would be photos of the person, and the Lucky's store would still have the surveillance camera tapes from Monday, the police should be able to figure out who did this.

    "When it rains it pours she said", and we arrived at her work where she looked all over for her pouch, and had them issue her a new payroll debit card for her paycheck access.

    We then drove back to my motel room. Drammatically, she says, "OK Sam, I did get the card and I did use it. But I didn't steal from you. I didn't go wild and take a lot of money from the account." No there wasn't much to get. "I thought you sent me the card. I wasn't stealing, you are my boyfriend and I though it would be OK to use the card to get money." She said she was embarassed, that is why she didn't tell the truth right away. She used the "I was embarrassed I lost my job" excuse for lying last year about continuing to have a job at Denny's for weeks after she was fired.

    I pointed out how it was wrong she didn't tell me the card arrived, she didn't tell me she was using it, and it was sent as a result of the joint account we created, that she knew was already frozen and closed. So where did she think the money was actually coming from? When did she let me know she received it, she was using it, how much she was using? Where's the communication?

    She claimed she didn't really think about these things, she doesn't know a lot about how the bank works. I told her that is why if we were a couple, she should be communicating with me and relying on me about financial things.

    Later she claimed she thought it was a credit card I had sent her. Eventhough the card clearly said Platinum Debit Card. Uh huh.

    She promised to repay the money. Apologized, said she had trust issues. No, this is not a trust issue. This is a she can't tell the truth about what she does issue. She even called herself a habitual liar at one point.

    I told her there was obviously no mystery for the police to solve, and that I didn't see a need to go to the police, I would just have to eat the loss with the bank. She kept challenging me that I could go to the police if I want, she's not afraid of the police, so what if she spends some time in jail, she would get out.

    What we have here ("is a failure to communicate") is what I called the "game of 20 questions" when my oldest son was a teenager. I have seen her several times play this game: If caught in a lie, dont tell the truth until you find out just how much of the truth is known. Then adjust the story you admit to how much of the truth you think they know....

    We came up with a name for it, she calls it "picking each others brain."
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:40 AM
    SamBuzz

    Here is the only question left to consider... Should I demand back the diamond engagement ring and tennis bracelet I gave her?

    We discussed the return of the diamond bracelet and engagement ring I gave her on Valentines day. At the store, we discussed the issue of returning it to me if we didn't follow through. I asked the store employees about the custom of returning the engagement rings if things are broken off. Of course they were non-commital, and favored the "its a gift" theory, the theory least likely to involve them in a refund situation.

    I told them it was my understanding that custom dictates the return of the engagement ring if the engagement is broken off, and asked if that was true. They kind of mumbled and agreed.

    I had already given her a gift of a small engagement type ring with 3 small diamonds, a few months earlier, but didn't clearly specify conditions on it. It was supposed to be a gift for in the middle of a vacation we had planned, but she cancelled at the last minute. I should have kept the ring for a later time, but didn't.

    She had been asking for a diamond tennis bracelet for her valentines day.

    Regardless of custom, I told Anita that returning it if we broke up, and that it was to signify being engaged to be married, those were the conditions I would give her the ring and diamond tennis bracelet. That they were for engagement to be married, and to be returned if we break it off. I have been clear in every discussion about them, they are not just a gift. I refused to pay for them, until we were clear on it. She said she understood, and accepted them under those terms. About $3500 retail after discounts, $2500 or so still owing on it. (Recall, at the time, I knew she wasn't living at her grandfathers anymore, although she was maintaining that fiction, and hadn't told me anything about the other guy. I had heard she setup the living arrangement as a part of helping her get back custody, but that was all I knew.)

    Yes, I know, I was stupid etc. I gave them as a "game changer". I knew things weren't right, that there were things she needed to tell me. It was an attempt to show her I was really serious about her, not just playing games, and wanted us to move forward if she wanted us to. I made it really clear. It was after that she started telling me more of the truth about her situation. She has told me several times that day jolted her, and she knew at that point she had to find a way to start telling me the truth, "that this was serious". She's told me several times she would never take off the bracelet, not even if the other guy demanded that, it's such an important symbol of the love she and I share. So she has plenty of awareness that it is something different than any other gift I have given.

    So yesterday we discussed the return of the bracelet and ring. She asked what would she get back. I said "What is it you want back". Of course there is nothing of value to be returned to her. She then equated it to being an exchange for sex. That was never the agreement, I made it clear at the store it was an engagement set, not a payment for services, and she said she understood.

    She said she would not return it, and I can't take her to court for it, what would I tell the judge she challenged? I told her I didn't see it as an issue for a judge. It's simply a matter of her word, does she have integrity.

    She said, well you could also ask for my car back if we break up. No, I replied, that was a gift, I never asked her to agree to return it if we broke up.

    I told her I have been very close many times to asking for the ring and bracelet back, but I know that would mean things are really over. I have noticed she didn't offer it back during our breakups, so she did give me reason to think we weren't really broken up.

    We went back and forth about "it should be returned if we are breaking this off, that was our agreement" and "It's a gift, what are giving me back, you can't return all the sex."

    I told her "OK, then obviously all I am is a client."

    We continued discussing the issue.

    She went back on the she really does love me, she didn't try to steal from, she has trust issues, etc. She also suggested again breaking things off, or did I want to still put up with her?

    I told her the agreement is simple: If we break things off, then she needs return the ring and bracelet. If it is not returned, then we aren't broken off. She liked that, "Well then we will never be broken off...." Ugghhh...

    This don't feel like JLo's "Cherry Pie"... Maybe she has a song to talk about the morning after indigestion...

    GF claimed she would return in the morning, fix me breakfast, and we could spend a few hours together, she would try to make all this up to me. Claimed she will pay back the money, starting with $200 today, and more when she gets her paycheck. "Maybe you dont believe me, i know I say I'll pay back different things, but this time I really mean it. You can break us off, or whatever, but I will pay this back. I'll leave and you can think about whether you want to break things off with me."

    I didn't have the guts to demand the bracelet back. I told her if she again gets so tired of me that she can't stand me and wants to break things off again, just return the bracelet and ring, and we can be done. It would be so much easier if she would remove the bracelet and ring and hand them back.

    We have discussed this before, and she had said I would need to give back the wedding ring that I wear from her, that I bought on Valentines day for her to give to me at the same time I gave hers to her. For a long time we've tried to talk about how we are married, she started referring to us as married almost a year ago. (A couple of days ago, day after her birthday, she described what we have as an open marriage, that's what she wants.) She has told me several times she would go with me to Nevada and get secretly married to me, the guy she lives with would just have to deal with it if he found out... Fortunately, I'm not stupid enough to do that, but I would consider going for a "renewal of vows" ceremony, which doesn't require government registration. (Yeah, I can hear the laughter, "What vows? Vow to be difficult, lie at every opportunity, and take whatever she can?")

    I told her "A whirlwind is interesting for all the things it rearranges as it blows through..." She didn't understand, I had to explain it to her how she is like that.

    I didn't hear from her anymore after she left last night, or yet this morning, it is 6:30am... Hmmm. Just now two texts from 10pm came into my phone:
    "Hey sam.. again i'm so sorry, and breakfast in the morning, good night - sharper than you think"... "good night - sharper than you think"

    (Sorry, but the class clown in me really gets a laugh at the timing of her new signature '-sharper than you think'. Is she the sharpest knife in the drawer, or is she really just dull... )
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:48 AM
    DoulaLC

    Stop the insanity!! Just end it. Ask for them back if you think she will go for it, but be prepared to just eat it in the end and hopefully learn from this experience.

    Do Not, repeat, Do Not get into another relationship until you have your head together on what constitutes a mature and mutually loving relationship.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:15 AM
    asking

    E) Forget the whole thing, eat the loss on the bank account, pay the loan off as penance for being stupid.

    Consider it cheap tuition at Life University.
    Lesson 1: You can rent people, but you cannot buy them.
    Lesson 2: You can live in a fantasyland, but you can't expect people to join you there.

    Stop wrangling over a bracelet. You need to move on.

    It sounds like you have her bringing you meals nearly all the time, which you either complain about or make no comment about, so I think you can consider your gifts payment for all her time doing things like that.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:26 AM
    SamBuzz

    For those asking why have I stayed with this woman, just consider this: Some couples bounce back very strong even after extreme infidelity. There are plenty here who would say never take back a cheater. Odds are about 80% that cheating revealed will end a marriage. Why is it 80%? Very many innocent spouses can not forgive an infidel who is truly sorry and willing to work to change, because the innocent spouse is unwilling to work on change. And many infidels will always be an infidel.

    And not all the 20% that continue may be that great. But the potential is there to turn out great, many that remain together do. Some counsellors recommend full disclosure, every detail, so that the innocent spouse is so angered that the anger can fuel the positive change needed in innocent spouse, and that the infidel can see the full anger and hurt, and maybe also be angered, and be fueled to make the changes needed too. I'm of the opinion that infidelity that has been ended long in the past without discovery should not be revealed, but that's sideline to the discussion.

    The point is that underneath all this lying, manipulation, stealing, rebelliousness, is a strong person. Yes she's doing weak and despicable things, but there is a strength there. If that could be broken through, and she could relax, let me in her inner circle, and work to grow together, I believe she and I could be very passionate and strong. While I know it's ludicrous for her explaining her lie yesterday about the card as a trust issue, in general, she is perceptive to point out that she has a lot of trust issues because she has been hurt a lot. If I could ever help her understand how unnecessary most of those walls between her and I have been, there would be a chance for something really great. Yes, I know, there will be a whole crowd out there who will vilify me for being foolish enough to be in love with a fantasy person and not face the reality of the person who is actually in front of me, yes, it's silly to put much faith in the part of my girlfriend who comes and says "At the end of the day I really do love you, no matter what you or anyone else thinks, anyone else thinking something only has what they hear from you, you really are my best friend, I don't have that with the guy I am living with, your the best person in the whole world, right next to my grandpa, I share everything about my life with you...." But trying to stick with someone you have made a marriage commitment to, and try to help them, for better or worse, that is the vow... For some, it works out great.

    Yes, I know she and I aren't actually married, I don't have to, and should not, put up with all this stuff. I should not leap forward into an actual marriage. Trust me, I'm not thinking of anything like that. Yes, I know there are a lot of danger signs here that this woman is not one who is likely to be part of the 20% or come out better for the experience.

    But a long time ago we did make a commitment to be married. What that means more than "sticking together", I really can't define anymore. Is it even an "open marriage" as she said the other day? I really don't know. There isn't nearly the cooperation, the drive to fix things, as there should be. Hiding behind "trust issues" as an excuse for theft and lying about it, is ridiculous. She said "I didn't steal from you", and I've always said "How can you steal from me what I would have willingly given you if you asked".

    I am not sure what hope I have for any dream or future at this point, other than maybe see her finish growing up.

    But short of detox, rehab, major counselloring, and real personal effort, on both our parts, it is hopeless... A relationship can't be fueled entirely on patience of one partner, and just crumbs from the other...
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:27 AM
    SamBuzz

    This morning, I decided to do some research on this issue of whether the items given in an engagement should be returned. Things are different among different states, so after reading about different theories "gift theory", "given in anticipation of a future event that if called off requires return of all property", "who called it off decides whether the ring goes back", etc. I then looked at California law.

    California law says:
    California Civil Code Section 1590:

    Where either party to a contemplated marriage in this State makes a gift of money or property to the other on the basis or assumption that the marriage will take place, if the donee refuses to enter into the marriage as contemplated or that it is given up by mutual consent, the donor may recover such gift or such part of its value as may, under all of the circumstances of the case, be found by a court or jury to be just.

    Another article:
    California Divorce and Family Law: Engagement Rings and the Law



    OK folks... What do you think I should do in regards to the ring and bracelet?

    A) Return the engagement ring and bracelet we're over. "What are you getting back? You get to keep what you took from the card that I did not authorize, and I wont report it to the police."

    B) Offer her an extra $500, plus no payback, giving her a cool $1000 in return for the ring and bracelet.

    C) Just go to the police, file the report...

    D) File lawsuit for return of the ring and bracelet... Waste thousands on trying to recover it...

    E) Forget the whole thing, eat the loss on the bank account, pay the loan off as penance for being stupid.

    Would anyone bother with one last try to get back the ring and bracelet? How much would you offer?

    I liked the comment about "Try this replacement zirc ring? Here let me hold your ring while you try this one on..." Rich!. A replacement zirconium tennis bracelet actually might be a compassionate offer, letting her still have something to wear to save face and not face friends asking "Where did your bracelet go?"
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:30 AM
    SamBuzz

    A meal she brings is about 3 times a month, restaurants I take us to are about 2-3 times a week... There was plenty of cash along the way, making those the most expensive meals I ever bought even if I get the diamonds back...

    Yeah, I will be happy when this is over... Just hate the thought of the student loan for the remainder of the bracelet and ring, it's the most expensive jewelry I have ever given... (Well, OK, maybe 2nd after the car she already got... )
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:37 AM
    Homegirl 50

    Just eat all of it. Take it as a lesson learned. Tell the woman you're done, go NC and be done with this madness.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:46 AM
    asking

    She sounds smart, self reliant, and capable. And I don't doubt you care for each other. But her values are street values of opportunism and craftiness. She is used to looking out for herself because no one else does. You seem to feel that you can (a) shape her into the softer, middle class person you want her to be and (b) subordinate her.

    You are failing at both of those. It's ironic that the very thing that makes it impossible for you to do those things (her strength) also makes you want to keep trying to make her into what you want. If you really want a woman who will do things your way, you will have to settle for one who is weak in some important way. Otherwise, be prepared to take a woman pretty much as she is.

    EDIT: Read GB Shaw's Pygmalion. (NOT my fair lady)
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:58 AM
    SamBuzz
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asking View Post
    She sounds smart, self reliant, and capable. And I don't doubt you care for each other. But her values are street values of opportunism and craftiness. She is used to looking out for herself because no one else does.

    Bingo! Thank you! She has said exactly that last sentence you wrote.

    I am very attracted to the intelligence she has. And frustrated it is being so misused. I get a chuckle when she says things like "Take that out of the equator" meaning equation. With some education, oh the potential...

    This is not the time for me to be reminded of her good points, but thank you very much for the reminder, very well put.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asking View Post
    You seem to feel that you can (a) shape her into the softer, middle class person you want her to be and (b) subordinate her.

    Maybe a little. But actually I am more intrigued by how to help her use her strengths in a better direction. Channel, not so much prune... Like a Ferengi, I smell profit in the wind...

    I once said to her when she was begging for $1000 rims last year almost right after getting the car, "What if I am broke after I buy those new rims you want." She said "Then you can pimp me out...." She was willing to say anything to get those rims.

    She has a fallback mode of street values. I'd never pimp her out... I'd be very heartbroken if she decided to go back to that, but I wouldn't necessarily leave her for that, it would depend on if it was for necessity or luxury. I would admire willingness to do it for dire necessity if there was no other way, but despise it if just for luxury... The thought in my mind is if she and I could work together, she would never have to have that as a fallback... if only that drive to succeed could be channelled in a legal direction.. Wow!

    As one guy said, "It's a sad man who can't find his wife at least three jobs so she can support him while he is semi-retired...." :D

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asking View Post
    You are failing at both of those. It's ironic that the very thing that makes it impossible for you to do those things (her strength) also makes you want to keep trying to make her into what you want. If you really want a woman who will do things your way, you will have to settle for one who is weak in some important way. Otherwise, be prepared to take a woman pretty much as she is.

    Excellent summation... That's probably the mode I've fallen into for the last couple of months... Try to take her the way that she is, and see if I can do well enough at that that she would migrate in my direction as the only man willing to do that, and give me the focus that she is giving elsewhere.

    Extremely risky... I realized a long time ago her telling me to "Relax" feels like skydiving without a parachute...
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:58 AM
    DoulaLC

    Sam,

    So what do you want to know? What do you want to hear from people? Are you looking for someone to say, "Hell, yes....you can break through to her inner circle and all will be bliss! Forget all the deceit, ultimatums, and broken trust. All of that will magically vanish, she will be a new woman, your heart (and finances) will be healed, once you are able to just get her to see how great it all can be!"

    You spout how you keep giving her chances, that she really is so wonderful under all the mess, and then you go on about finding out how to get her to return the ring and bracelet.

    So which is it going to be? Are you staying and trying fix her to fulfill your need for drama and to be needed, or are you going to see it for what it all is and take a chance to move out of your comfort zone and find someone who is an equal. Perhaps that thought is too frightening. Maybe you like having a pet project.

    I don't doubt that you care for her and have some need to want to help her... but what you are doing isn't really helping her at all. You are only allowing her to continue as she has been and will continue to be. I think you feed off each other. You manipulate each other and now you have this little dance going.

    You may really love her, or the thought of what you think it could be, but that doesn't mean you are right for each other.

    As far as the ring and bracelet... sounds like more drama deciding how you should handle it. Either you want to be with her or you don't... make up your mind. Forget the jewelry.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 08:15 AM
    SamBuzz

    She's tired...

    I'm tired...

    > isn't really helping her at all. You are only allowing her to continue as she has been

    I have come to realize that. Continuing as she has been doesn't meet my needs, but worse, it is not her progressing either. Trust issues in the first few months I can undertand. But to hear the embarrassment excuse a year after I first heard it, and was very gracious, encouraging, and tried to make the point then "look how unnecessary that was", and all the other incidents handled with control in between, she still doesn't get it, that doesn't speak to teachability. Intelligence without teachability is like a supercomputer with no programming. It just wastes electricity, space, and heats up everything around it for nothing.

    There is a difference between patience and self control, and being a doormat. Some say I should yell at her to put her in line, but I'm not going to do that. She misinterprets trying to be calm and work with her as being weakness. Maybe that can not be unlearned.

    Is the gold in the pan too small compared to all the pyrite?

    Is she really interested in a relationship, or not? Only she knows in her head. She knows how to say all the right things to make it seem like she does. I can't complain about any lack of her saying the right things, at least when she's not upset.

    BTW, who likes the movie Trading Places. Maybe that is applicable as any. Except I haven't made any $1 bets about her.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 09:17 AM
    Homegirl 50

    Well I'm confused and I just could not read past yesterrdays drama. Is this the same woman that demands the car or she's leaving? And now there is a bracelet and a ring?
    I'm not understanding why the conversation is still going on.
    I am once again in agreement with DoulaLC sorry have to spread some rep.
    "As far as the ring and bracelet....sounds like more drama deciding how you should handle it. Either you want to be with her or you don't....make up your mind. Forget the jewelry."
  • Jul 29, 2010, 10:27 AM
    SamBuzz

    Yes, same girl...

    Damn this is confusing...

    I read her the
    Quote:

    She sounds smart, self reliant, and capable. And I don't doubt you care for each other... She is used to looking out for herself because no one else does.
    And she agreed 100%. She didn't like I was getting feedback here, she don't care what anyone thinks.

    We had a great morning... A little bit of fuss...

    She talked how she hates how we met, and that we crossed the line... How one of her friends in her old line of work told her six months ago she should not have done that... My saying I was tired of that life of different girls all the time, I wanted to settle down. We met how we met, the real question I been asking all along is: Can we go anywhere from here? Do we want to?

    Talk about just being friends, taking time apart... Talk about her home life, "you may not believe me, but" , sharing her frustration... Agreeing we have been each others best friend... Me offering to step back so she can get right with the guy she lives with, her saying that will never happen, he's not her best friend... We talked about why he keeps her around, she thinks it is for comfort, she is sure he is making hints about moving on from her.

    Despite no car for her birthday, she can say she is still with me.

    Yesterday, without prompting, she offered to promise to quit using the "We're over" thing, she sees I don't deal well with that.

    During the fuss she talked how she couldn't just move on to me she would still be unhappy. She's not sure if her unhappiness is due to being torn between both of us.

    She kept making the point that she has done so much more for me than the girl who got an apartment out of me, and I could not disagree. I told her that girl. Among other visits, did give me an overnight visit every week were we had a nice evening. I reminded my girlfriend she and I used to do that when we first got together, and she had kind of forgotten. I agreed with her that she had done more to bring me around her family, and her life.

    After the fuss though, a genuine nice time, even talk about how the future could be better, how she could transition out of her current situation into something less stressful. How I know she needs some time on her own to decompress in the middle and not have someone living with her full time, I'd just come and visit a couple of times a week, and wait until she was more ready to say "I want you around more..." She was even willing to imagine it with me.

    We talked a lot of this while she was doing laundry, and she offered to do some laundry for me today.

    I even got to talk to her about the possibility of a less stressful living situation, would she consider getting clean from weed, and that reminded of her of her son.

    After things were calm, she asked me what they are saying here, and I told her everyone says we should be finished and that I'm crazy. She saw this topic up on my screen, and said she's given up on cadillac, her mechanic friend talked sense into her. She's now willing to consider honda. Even willing to consider the Honda LX I found for her. She just asked that the car have enough room for her, she's tall, long legs, still wants to have enough room in the back when her drivers seat is pushed all the way back.

    Her mom is excited that her mom and I have been planning to go on a casino bus for a day visit to a casino on Saturday. I'm so glad the bank stuff has come out and been dealt with, I didn't want to have to cancel on her mom because of going NC.

    Any advice about how to roll with a manic depressive, or bipolar? She's frequently said that is what she is... I guess I should look for some forums on that.

    I have been asking her the last two or three days to get us into anger management class. I used to have very fiery temper, but I've learned to calm it through church. I've been going back to more temper because of being around her, but realize I don't want to go in that direction... I told her I went off on someone, really went off, partially to feel what she must feel like all the time, and she said that is what it is like... I told her why that is bad, if the other person doesn't slug you sooner, the bad chemicals pumping into your body will kill you later...

    But I even got to talk to her about the idea of us finding a church to go to, and why I think that can be the best cure of all for most of what ails humanity. She didn't object to the idea or argue about it.

    She actually got relaxed enough to be yawning...

    If we had one or two days like today every week, and at least 50% less issues about openness, and not had that threat, I would never have come here.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 01:17 PM
    Homegirl 50

    If we had one or two days like today every week, and at least 50% less issues about openness, and not had that threat, I would never have come here.

    Go back and read all that you have written. There is a bigger problem here than communication.
    I think you are fooling yourself and she is working you.
    You are addicted to all of this drama and you will put up with it until your are drained dry.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 01:19 PM
    Kitkat22

    Good Luck!
  • Jul 29, 2010, 01:37 PM
    talaniman

    If your going to be a punk, be a good one, and give her what she wants, and spend all your time, money, and sanity on your HO!!

    You can afford it.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 05:43 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    if your going to be a punk, be a good one, and give her what she wants, and spend all your time, money, and sanity on your HO!!!

    You can afford it.

    I can't believe all this has gone on and you still have doubts?
  • Jul 29, 2010, 05:47 PM
    martinizing2
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kitkat22 View Post
    I can't believe all this has gone on and you still have doubts?

    ;)
    I just can't believe it has gone on.:rolleyes:
  • Jul 29, 2010, 05:50 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by martinizing2 View Post
    ;)
    I just can't believe it has gone on.:rolleyes:



    What a mess!:rolleyes:
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:18 PM
    Alty

    Oh just buy her the car already, then take your penis out, put it in her hand, and let her lead you around like a puppy.

    You can't handle the truth, and the truth is, she's using you. Whenever you question it, she finds some sob story to keep you around, you buy it, and then she has you back to doing what she wants. Want proof?

    Quote:

    She saw this topic up on my screen, and said she's given up on cadillac, her mechanic friend talked sense into her. She's now willing to consider honda.
    Oh she's so sweet, she's willing to give up the cadillac and accept a honda. Boy is she a keeper. She's such a giver. How could you ever have doubted her? This is sarcasm, just in case you didn't know.

    Do what you want, you're not listening to our advice. Be used, let her drain your bank account dry, at which point she'll hop in her honda and move on to the next sucker.

    Good luck. You need it!

    Yes, I'm being harsh. Did it work? Are you seeing the forest for the trees now or are you still blinded by her?
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:19 PM
    martinizing2
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kitkat22 View Post
    What a mess!:rolleyes:

    To be clear.

    I do not believe it took place anywhere but in his imagination.

    This is a project for school or research or for his amusement. It is a work of fiction.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    Oh just buy her the car already, then take your penis out, put it in her hand, and let her lead you around like a puppy.

    You can't handle the truth, and the truth is, she's using you. Whenever you question it, she finds some sob story to keep you around, you buy it, and then she has you back to doing what she wants. Want proof?



    Oh she's so sweet, she's willing to give up the cadillac and accept a honda. Boy is she a keeper. She's such a giver. How could you ever have doubted her? This is sarcasm, just in case you didn't know.

    Do what you want, you're not listening to our advice. Be used, let her drain your bank account dry, at which point she'll hop in her honda and move on to the next sucker.

    Good luck. You need it!

    Yes, I'm being harsh. Did it work? Are you seeing the forest for the trees now or are you still blinded by her?

    Alty... LOL... :D... you're right:cool:
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:22 PM
    Alty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by martinizing2 View Post
    To be clear.

    I do not believe it took place anywhere but in his imagination.

    This is a project for school or research or for his amusement. It is a work of fiction.

    My gut is saying he's trolling too, but just in case he isn't, I'll give him advice on what he's claiming is going on.

    This sounds like a movie of the week, but sadly, it's possible that there is a girl like this out there, and there is a fool like him willing to do whatever she wants just to stay with her.

    I've seen worse on here that turned out to be true. ;)
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:24 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    My gut is saying he's trolling too, but just in case he isn't, I'll give him advice on what he's claiming is going on.

    This sounds like a movie of the week, but sadly, it's possible that there is a girl like this out there, and there is a fool like him willing to do whatever she wants just to stay with her.

    I've seen worse on here that turned out to be true. ;)

    I want a Lexus... Just saying:)
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:34 PM
    Homegirl 50

    His story is so confusing and just silly I find it hard to believe. Just when you think he's done, he comes out with two more pages.
    If its fiction, it's not even good fiction.
    If it's real, he is a sad person.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:38 PM
    Kitkat22

    Sad. I cannot imagine ANY woman who could be this cold.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:44 PM
    martinizing2

    SB. I would request that you get artistic , like Van Gogh.

    Really show her something cut ,off a body part and send it to her wrapped in a bloody rag.

    Van Gogh cut off his ear.

    For the character in your story,

    There is a much more appropriate part to cut off and send her.

    Maybe in the next chapter?
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:47 PM
    Homegirl 50

    Well there are some women out there that are pretty nasty. Some real B****es there but I cannot imagine a grown man being so gullible unless he's hard up, off the box or addicted to drama.
  • Jul 29, 2010, 06:47 PM
    Kitkat22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by martinizing2 View Post
    SB. I would request that you get artistic , like Van Gogh.

    really show her something cut ,off a body part and send it to her wrapped in a bloody rag.

    Van Gogh cut off his ear.

    For the character in your story,

    There is a much more appropriate part to cut off and send her.

    Maybe in the next chapter?


    MartyZ.. I agree. She's probably already done that!:eek:
  • Jul 29, 2010, 07:11 PM
    talaniman

    Have we had enough? I have, and I doubt the advice will change much from what has been said.

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