Your approach is important, as in any communications. You can't just read from a list. The list is for you to organizing your thoughts, and stay on point. The way you ask the questions are what she will hear, as part of a conversation.

For example, You can just ask her will you commit, You have to phrase it in a context of your own feelings, as in I was hurt by the break up, and don't want to hurt again, as expressing your fears is a way to see if she will commit.

She opened a door when she said she could understand you wanting to talk, without all the emotions of being in the same place.

That's what I mean about your impatience will be your down fall, because your zeal for answers, and solutions, often gets in the way of you listening, and to me, that's the most important part of good honest communications, LISTENING. That, and knowing when to back off, and wait for someone to get their head wrapped around what your saying. That's the key to understanding. That's the key to getting facts, by which to make good decisions with.

Make that list, memorize it, and work it into a good conversation. Hell, it took two days for my wife to tell me what she thought about some changes to the household budget, to cover some software she wanted.

PATIENCE!!!!

Also know, it takes time to establish good communications sometimes, with some its so natural, others take longer. It's a big red flag when a couple cannot establish communications between them. Hard to work together, if you don't understand each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Your approach is important, as in any communications. You can't just read from a list. The list is for you to organizing your thoughts, and stay on point. The way you ask the questions are what she will hear, as part of a conversation.

For example, You can just ask her will you commit, You have to phrase it in a context of your own feelings, as in I was hurt by the break up, and don't want to hurt again, as expressing your fears is a way to see if she will commit.

She opened a door when she said she could understand you wanting to talk, without all the emotions of being in the same place.

Thats what I mean about your impatience will be your down fall, because you zeal for answers, and solutions, often gets in the way of you listening, and to me, thats the most important part of good honest communications, LISTENING. That, and knowing when to back off, and wait for someone to get their head wrapped around what your saying. Thats the key to understanding. Thats the key to getting facts, by which to make good decisions with.

Make that list, memorize it, and work it into a good conversation. Hell, it took two days for my wife to tell me what she thought about some changes to the household budget, to cover some software she wanted.

PATIENCE!!!!

---

Patience is a virtue! I often lose patience with people and end up feeling horrible later. Good advice.:o

I agree, didn't mean to be so cut & dried.

There's what's in your head & what's in hers.

There's honest & frank conversations that need to happen for both of you to make decisions.

That involves being honest & listening. Putting all of your respective cards on the table in a sense.

For you both to paint that picture of how you see things in the future.

And what hasn't worked before.

Thens there's the time to reflect after.

Making true informed decisions based on that information.

Just a little update.

We've talked some more on the phone. I addressed two important issues, one being her not making me a priority anymore like she used to. The other was an issue of sex. We went from having sex about 3 times a week to about once every 2 or so weeks.

In her responses she talked about me not being able to come first all the time and how that isn't how a relationship works. (which I don't agree with)

In relation to the sex problem so owned up to this and said once she started getting stressed with her work the last thing she felt like doing was having sex. She apologised for the argument we go into where by after about 4 months of very little sex I asked about it and she blew up and claimed all I was after was sex...

One thing I can't get past is, she dumped me because she said she didn't know what she wanted anymore, didn't think she had time for a boyfriend. Now she's realised she wants me.

If this is so, why am I having such a hard time believing it?

Im having a hard job in my mind upon whether to get back in this or not. Even when we talk some more and after a few weeks if all the issues are resolved on the phone, there's still no way to resolve the issue of she dumped me. Things got bad and after 3 months or so she dumped me. When you love somebody as much as she claims to, you don't dump them after that short of time.

I asked her about this on the phone and she said she just couldn't do it anymore and needed time away from it to figure things out.

She also asked me on the phone if I had met anybody. I replied no and she said strange because she's had several dreams about me meeting somebody and girls name was the same in all of them. She then got very sharp with me and pretty much said she's sure Im in contact with somebody else. She said she doesn't want to be hurt so if I am to let her know and she'll be on her way.

Im actually not in contact with anybody, nor have I met anybody.

She also said a few things on the phone which I thought were quite odd. She claimed that because I hadn't been contacting her very much and from the words Im saying, she doesn't feel I love her very much or actually want this relationship back. She also said she is trying with me and doesn't feel like Im trying much at all.

How can she judge how much Im trying with her? She after all ended things with me.

One thing she did say which I don't know how to take is that when she ended the relationship she did so because she felt pressured from me.

On that night she told me she needed some time to think about things and by this point I was a little annoyed because she'd used that phrase many times but not actually asked for a break or anything. I pushed her and said make your mind up. She again said she didn't know what do to. I raised my voice and said look you either want me or you don't, it's that simple. She said, you obviously have other options or you wouldn't be pushing for a decision from me this second so fine, we're over, now Im not in the way to stop you from addressing your other options.

I explained on the phone I pushed for a decision not because I had other options but because I became impatient and needed to know if she either wanted to be with me or not. She believes I was wrong to do this.

Do you guys think I was wrong? Did my impatience get the better of me again?

She's either in or out.

Not sure how you can work things out apart.

Sounds like she doesn't know what she wants. But likes using the excuse that you have other "options". Lame.

Like she said. "Were over"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vanheart

Shes either in or out.

Not sure how you can work things out apart.

Sounds like she doesnt know what she wants. But likes using the excuse that you have other "options". Lame.

Like she said. "Were over"

---

Ah, well I'm following the guys advice from here. They said only talk on the phone until the problems are addressed and I see a change.

Even now she keeps asking if I have options and says she's worried. Surely if I had options I'd be off with them not talking on the phone to her!

She seems to blame me for demanding an answer from her on the night we broke up. My patience has been talked about in the previous post a few times. We me raising my voice and demanding a yes or a no answer the reason she said we're over. She believes it is and will not accept blame for it. She wants me to take the blame for that one. She believes she was pushed into the decision by me. Should I have pushed like that at the time or stepped back and given her some time?

Exactly.

You certainly deserve an honest answer. And you got it.

I personally wouldn't even talk on the phone. If she decides she wants to try again, she will let you know. But don't wait around & be her pal while she's figuring it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itsyerboi

Just a little update.

We've talked some more on the phone. I addressed two important issues, one being her not making me a priority anymore like she used to. The other was an issue of sex. We went from having sex about 3 times a week to about once every 2 or so weeks.

---

I think sex 3 times a week is a bit much. Once you pass the honey moon stage once a week is more like it beside you are not living together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itsyerboi

In her responses she talked about me not being able to come first all the time and how that isnt how a relationship works. (which I dont agree with)

In relation to the sex problem so owned up to this and said once she started getting stressed with her work the last thing she felt like doing was having sex. She apologised for the argument we go into where by after about 4 months of very little sex I asked about it and she blew up and claimed all I was after was sex...

---

She doesn't want to be satisfied or something? Sound like she just want to have sex just for the sake of it "let get over with this".Maybe she's not into sex as much as you. Or got bored of you.

You got to decide if you can put up with these:

1. She is busy with work, stress out and doesn't have time for you.
2. She may not have sex often because she is stressed out, not into sex that much or what ever the reason is.


Why does she still sound like you guys are together but she dumped you. You didn't sound too confident. You should have point out the fact that she dumped you that's why you didn't phone.

I am afraid that the only reason she phoned you is because she thought that you have moved on first. What she's saying is you can't move on before me lol.

The fact the she phoned you the ball is in your court. It sounded like you didn't solve any problem, just make thing worse. It shows that she still in control. You should have show more confident. You should have said, listen, "you either make time for me or the relationship will not work out, the sex can be negotiated a little but still more of what you want not what she told you. If she doesn't agree you simply walk away that's how you show confident.

"she thought that you have moved on first. What she's saying is you can't move on before me lol."

Very true. Lots of head games here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itsyerboi

She said she doesnt wanna be hurt so if I am to let her know and she'll be on her way.

---

She'll not be on her way, she'll want you more but it's manipulation. Won't last if you get her back this way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itsyerboi

She also said a few things on the phone which I thought were quite odd. She claimed that because I hadnt been contacting her very much and from the words Im saying, she doesnt feel I love her very much or actually want this relationship back. She also said she is trying with me and doesnt feel like Im trying much at all.

---

What she is saying is, since you didn't contact mel I missed you so much and thought that you are gone for good. I can't handle it. I don't want to lose you.

She dumped you and blame you because you pushed her, that's a total lie. She probably thought about this a long time and that was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

Totally.

She couldn't handle NC from you.

All, bad reasons here.

One doesn't need to push to find out if their partner is invested.

They either are or not.

I guess it back to NC. For good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vanheart

Totally.

She couldnt handle NC from you.

All, bad reasons here.

One doesnt need to push to find out if their partner is invested.

They either are or not.

I guess it back to NC. For good.

---

Be strong!:)

Doesn't sound like she's ready to take responsibility in a relationship. Or her actions. No real priorities or how to mange them. No real evidence that she wants to change, and is truly invested.

Depressed, snapping, blame, flip-flopping, playing games. Making you feel like crap, basically.

Is that the kind of person you want?

Like you said originally "I was sick of this"

Just thought that would help in going back to NC...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vanheart

Doesnt sound like shes ready to take responsibility in a relationship. Or her actions. No real priorities or how to mange them. No real evidence that she wants to change, and is truly invested.

Depressed, snapping, blame, flip-flopping, playing games. making you feel like crap, basically.

Is that the kind of person you want?

Like you said originally "I was sick of this"

Just thought that would help in going back to NC....

---

Don't be pulled back into her games. She is a user!

Yup.

Classic user. Just like my ex, hehehe..

Ya know, boi..

Here's the thing.

You were sick of they way things were. And went NC for 5 weeks or more.

Then she pulled you back in, begging (which was more BS). And you fell for it.

Now you got another taste of what its like dealing with her.

I got texts, emails, voicemails from my ex.

Every one was about relieving her guilt. Not about me.
She even to get to my friends, and got her friends to try.

So, glad that I never responded to any of them. I went NC after 4-5 days of being dumped. Never stopped.

You used your gut before. You were right.

One thing you found out was she has powers to flip you into a defensive position, and you are a lousy listener, who when pressed become impatient.

Geez all you had to do was listen, and you would have known what you should have known in the first place, she only called you to make sure you had not found something more interesting to do, since you never called her. And had you paid attention, she doesn't handle stress well, and she will shift the cause of it from her inability, to YOU.

That you are impatient is stressful for her, as she expects you to fall in line and give her comfort. Work on that impatience, it distracts you from things you should be paying attention too.

The good part is at least over the phone you have not had to take the full force of her charms and can at least hold onto your dignity and self respect, but guy, you're a real sucker for her mental games.

As to your issues with her, lack of sex is only a symptom of a greater problem in another area of the relationship, and it may be in a few areas, not just one.

Quote:

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In her responses she talked about me not being able to come first all the time and how that isn't how a relationship works. (which I don't agree with)

---

Actually there is a lot of truth in this, as a balanced life, where partners are free to spend time away from each other, and enjoying good clean adult fun is essential for long term happiness.

Okay you have had a chance at talking about what bugs you, and have more info than you had, so there are more problems that remain, and I doubt she calls you soon, considering the guilt trip she laid on you. But the main thing you do know and can take as fact from this whole exercise, is your impatiences makes you press, when she wants time to consider. That's a biggie in your interaction, and something you will learn. Whether with her, or another.

Is there hope? Not without a lot more work, and not sure if either of you is that willing to talk and listen, or give and take. What talking over the phone did do was keep the physical out of the equation, and make the judgment tainted.

You need 3 days to see what you feel, figure what has happened, and what you do about it. A test of your patience. Will she call? Who knows. Decide what you want, Now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

One thing you found out was she has powers to flip you into a defensive position, and you are a lousy listener, who when pressed become impatient.

Geez all you had to do was listen, and you would have known what you should have known in the first place, she only called you to make sure you had not found something more interesting to do, since you never called her. And had you paid attention, she doesn't handle stress well, and she will shift the cause of it from her inability, to YOU.

That you are impatient is stressful for her, as she expects you to fall in line and give her comfort. Work on that impatience, it distracts you from things you should be paying attention too.

The good part is at least over the phone you have not had to take the full force of her charms and can at least hold onto your dignity and self respect, but guy, your a real sucker for her mental games.

As to your issues with her, lack of sex is only a symptom of a greater problem in another area of the relationship, and it may be in a few areas, not just one.


Actually there is a lot of truth in this, as a balanced life, where partners are free to spend time away from each other, and enjoying good clean adult fun is essential for long term happiness.

Okay you have had a chance at talking about what bugs you, and have more info than you had, so there are more problems that remain, and I doubt she calls you soon, considering the guilt trip she laid on you. But the main thing you do know and can take as fact from this whole exercise, is your impatiences makes you press, when she wants time to consider. Thats a biggie in your interaction, and something you will learn. Whether with her, or another.

Is there hope? Not without a lot more work, and not sure if either of you is that willing to talk and listen, or give and take. What talking over the phone did do was keep the physical out of the equation, and make the judgment tainted.

You need 3 days to see what you feel, figure what has happened, and what you do about it. A test of your patience. Will she call? Who knows. Decide what you want, Now!

---

I don't know what else I can add. I do hope you stick to your

No Contact. There are good and bad days you will go through,

But you will love again and laugh again. Just give yourself time

To get over this one.:)

I agree with lots of that but,

I don't know. How much time does she need? 5 weeks or before?

Maybe. Patience was always an issue I guess.

But be patient when it comes to how you live & communicate. But don't wait around for her in order to make your daily decisions.

I think that's a decision he makes on his own now, since he see for himself that little has changed in 5 weeks, and that he is still hurting from being dumped, as well he should be.

Totally.

Emopunk7 here! Coming to you live from New York.
So, she broke up with you. You did NC and she begged. Good job so far.
Now she calls and because your mom will be away and I'm guessing you will feel lonely and want someone around to have fun with, you answer her call and want to have a quick fix with her so you can enjoy the two weeks. This situation made you seem desperate.

I thought she maybe had plans since she wanted to wait for the following weekend but you claim she didn't simply because she answered when you called. She could have done what she had to do by then. Either way, she was home in pj's and wasn't busy when you called. She is also willing to wait another week to go by and not see you. The fact that she isn't busy and didn't go out is even more perplexed and mind-boggling because she would still rather just wander at home and not see you. Can you imagine if she did have plans? This just goes to show how far gone you are.

Also, she seems to give orders after begging. She states that you either see her when she wants or nothing. Then she blames it on you for rushing and jolting. Does manipulation come to mind. Listen, I dated a girl just like the one you are dealing with. The truth is she just isn't that into you and that's why the two of you will always have problems. Even in this situation where it would seem you would have most control, she still does and it shows that you want her more than she does you. Isn't that ridiculous? I know that you see this too but you still try. Enough is enough. This is proof enough to show that if it doesn't work once, it just doesn't work. Don't ignore the signs and go through more heartache. There is so much more to enjoy.

I hope you understand what I am saying. It just doesn't add up. My final advice to you will be as follows: Ring her and tell her that it is game over. Tell her you care about her a lot but it is evident to you that you like her more than she likes you. Tell her you notice that she likes to take control too much and doesn't give you space to be a man. (Ex: She dumps you (She took control), She begs for you back (She needs something to control), She gets you to agree and tells you when to meet (She gets something to control and begins the process ASAP)). Tell her this must come to an end. Tell her while you know you may be impatient, let her know that may be because you feel she has all the control and that maybe she should work on that if she ever wants a chance in a good and healthy relationship.

I think we all know (including yourself) that this is not the girl you are meant to be with. It wouldn't be this confusing. Good luck and go find the girl waiting for you. Everyday away from this one, is a step closer to the right one!

"Everyday away from this one, is a step closer to the right one!"

Yup. You already had a taste of how great that was.

Here's something that really helped me when I was recoiling.

From Byron Katie (thanks, Tao for turning me on, Where you been?)

Her 4 questions:

1. Is it true?
2. Can you absolutely know that it's true?
3. How do you react when you believe this thought?
4. Who would you be without this thought?
Turn the thought around.

I refer to that whenever Im tripping.

There's one detail you guys got wrong, I phoned her as per you guys previous advice. She never called me. She said on the phone she was waiting for my call and wondered why I hadn't called earlier. Ive phoned her twice now and she made it clear she wants me back.

She just called me up about 30 minutes ago and asked if she could come over and see me. I said I didn't know just yet.

I understand my impatience was a huge problem for her and for me. Upon every situation or argument I always wanted an answer there and then and sometimes she wasn't able to provide one but I would push anyway. She said this got to her a lot because she felt I wasn't allowing her time to breathe in any given situation.

As far as the sex thing, once a week is fine. Just not once every 3 weeks. She actually said that she's never had a huge interest in sex. I asked why she was interested more in the beginning and she said people will always have more interest during the honeymoon period. So Im also going to have to be a lot more accepting towards what she says.

The two problems I struggle with the most are acceptance and patience. Both of which I really need to work on.

She still however should not have dumped me just because things got tough. And I am still torn on the priority thing. I feel like I need to be her first priority but feel perhaps Im in the wrong frame for thinking this.

As for her claiming I've met somebody, Im not sure what that was about. She asked me to tell her if Id met somebody and if I had, she wouldn't waste her efforts on me anymore. I also see that when she wouldn't meet me the other weekend even though she for certain was doing absolutely nothing at home, this proved she wasn't all that interested in fixing things.

Her actions have changed now and she seems more interested in fixing this mess but is it genuine or is it like some of you guys have said, she only wants it back because she feels lost without it...

EDIT:

Also to add, Ive been absolutely fine. I have been out all weekend with my friends to eat and actually went to a gig. I haven't been lonely at all with my mum away. I also haven't actually thought about her that much. Like I said it appears she had been waiting for my call and then questioned why I hadn't bothered with her much.

Anymore help guys?

I had a real good think last night about what Tal said and perhaps my impatience was a big cause of the split.

If Im honest, it came up a lot during the later part of the relationship. My need for answers and explanations right there and then.

Im willing to put a lot of work into this issue. Not for her, but for myself.

At this stage I would have expected you to have figured out what you want by now.

The whole point was about you making a decision without her influence. Most guys are influenced by the physical parts of a female. But are you seeing things just by talking? I think so, but eventually you will have to be strong enough on your own to face things head on, and deal with the outcome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

At this stage I would have expected you to have figured out what you want by now.

The whole point was about you making a decision without her influence. Most guys are influenced by the physical parts of a female. But are you seeing things just by talking? I think so, but eventually you will have to be strong enough on your own to face things head on, and deal with the outcome.

---

Yeah I see what you mean, that's why I haven't agreed to see her yet. Im going to have to see her eventually.

Im still not 100% sure just yet but I think I may give it another go. Perhaps after another conversation on the phone. And even though Im waiting for her to accept a little more of the blame than she has right now. Im more looking to finding out a few answers from her about me. My mum has told me for many years that Im impatient. The funny thing is, I don't actually realise Im doing it at the time!

Im sure over the next couple of days I'll make a definite yes or no decision.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itsyerboi

Theres one detail you guys got wrong, I phoned her as per you guys previous advice. She never called me. She said on the phone she was waitin for my call and wondered why I hadnt called earlier. Ive phoned her twice now and she made it clear she wants me back.

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Of course she want you back since you're both desperate lol. You haven't learn a thing. Oh well. So now you are back together, try not to be so impatience like call her twice instead of waiting for her to call you again. Of course she will call you again but you was impatience.

Anyway, it's hard to give you advice now since there's no blood left in your brain. I hope things work out for you. It's not easy to do the right thing but at least if you learn something out of this we are doing our job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hungtoronto

Of course she want you back since you're both desperate lol. You haven't learn a thing. Oh well. So now you are back together, try not to be so impatience like call her twice instead of waiting for her to call you again. Of course she will call you again but you was impatience.

Anyways, it's hard to give you advice now since there's no blood left in your brain. I hope things work out for you. It's not easy to do the right thing but at least if you learn something out of this we are doing our job.

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Sorry this is really confusing,

We're not back together yet. My impatience wasn't calling her twice in a row. It was over many things, such as having a conversation about something and her no being able to provide me with an answer there and then. Or for example talking about planning a trip to paris and her not being sure if she could afford it, so I'd keep pushing for an answer. Ive always been the type that I feel I need to know things right away and this is a huge problem for me.

What I've learnt from this is that I should be patient with people. Ive also learnt that without proper communication, things will never work. I've learnt too that I don't like certain things in a relationship.

However Im still not understanding why a person who wants me back was wanting to take it slow and at 'their' pace. The only answer I got for that was because she didn't want to rush back into the relationship and have all those same problems crop up again.

If I decide to, Im not going to jump back into this like everythings great because we had a little chat, because its not. She ended things and whether my behaviour was the deciding factor on that, I can't be sure. But she still ended it and now wants it back. I know this sounds very unfair but a part of me feels like she's not being punished enough for that action. Like she needs to learn that you cannot just drop somebody when things get tough and pick them up after its cooled down.

Im doing absolutely fine by myself over the past weeks. I don't need to get back with her. If I wanted to, I need to make sure these same things don't happen again. For example. If I become impatient again, I could get dumped a second time!

Well, if you feel that way, why are you wasting your time even talking about it? Seems to me your mind is made up. So tell her that.

I hate talking on the phone, so I would have rather delt with this in person.
You don't have to go right back to dating, you can just talk in person you know. To me that's the mature way.
But I definitely wouldn't be letting her set the time this takes . She begging for you back, then she should want to meet your needs.

As soon as she said no to meeting you the weekend coming up, I would have said see you later. I do not think you are being impatient. I just think she doesn't care as much as you, and doesn't care to meet your needs. She is selfish and wants things to revolve around her and you to be her little puppy dog.
I think by her calling you impatient, that is just her way of trying to make you feel like its your fault, so she can have control.
Move on man. You know in your brain it's the right thing to do. I know you know this. Just do it - Nike

Do yourself a favor, and drop the chat/text. Its against the rules, and hard to understand, and will be deleted, as your other post was.