Yeah I get your point , but I'm just saying it is possible to just remain friends with exes.
For most people I know its not, but for me it certainly is.
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Yeah I get your point , but I'm just saying it is possible to just remain friends with exes.
For most people I know its not, but for me it certainly is.
You certainly feel that way Rol, everyone is different. I did try to rate your answer but I wasn't allowed! You are very strong, and a nice person
This is certainly your choice and I honor that too. And I am mindful that people differ too-- I only need look at my wildly varying friends to see that! However, what you say here may also be a way of eliminating some fine candidates Rol, since there are enough quality people out there who would take ex's hanging around as a red flag. All I am politely suggesting is this: that when you are producing results that you don't like... then it works best to objectively look at all the methodology being used that is producing the unsatisfactory results. I think it was Tal who once said: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
This is what makes you an incredibly strong person...Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
I don't doubt that you have learnt how to achieve this through experience.
Maybe I could be like that but not right now, neither would I want to.
<<However, what you say here may also be a way of eliminating some fine candidates Rol, since there are enough quality people out there who would take ex's hanging around as a red flag.>>
True, but by then I would have truly moved on with that new guy that he would have no need to be jealous. I'm not talking friends as in great buddies chatting every day either, but friends who just see each other from time to time to catch up.
<<I don't doubt that you have learnt how to achieve this through experience.
Maybe I could be like that but not right now, neither would I want to.>>
Yes experience exactly.
I keep the people who I like in my life.
This is why I qualified it as "active friends" Rol. What you are describing is a casual acquaintance to me. I can see now why you thought what you did. We have more of a semantics disagreement than anything. Does what you are suggesting mean that your new guy is NOT in a position to make friends with your ex's then?Quote:
Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow
<<This is why I qualified it as "active friends" Rol. What you are describing is a casual acquaintance to me. I can see now why you thought what you did. >>
Ahhhhhhhh exactly!! I didn't see your "active friends part" on the post.
Casual friends exactly!!
Ah we agree at last Val :))
Whatever you do, do it with your eyes wide open.
Rol - You've obviously changed your mind since you wrote this on Post #47 a few pages back on this thread in November:
May I ask what has changed your mind about friendship with ex's?Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
It's all based on if you can deal with seeing gthem with someone else. Have you moved on? Can you move on?
A LOT of people accept friendship in hopes to eventually win the ex back - works sometimes.
Friends is the basis for a healthy relationship - you're not necessarily best buddies - but you better darn like hanging out with that person if you're going gto see them.
What the majority of people do is often where the greatest truth lies for me. Each to their own, certainly, but I plan on believing this when I start hearing from people who are actually experiencing this. When it's a very small percentage for whom this occurs, then it means they are different in some measurable way. To believe I am one of those takes knowing how it is I am different and therefore like them. I know all too well what its like getting hurt by my own fantasies and bad science. So I don't invite others to do that either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat21
Rol,
Reading the recent developments in this thread I can't help but really think that you are hoping this 'friendship' you desire with the ex, will actually bring him back to you.
On must only look at your intentions when first coming here only a little over a month ago.
The title of your initial thread (this one) says it all.
So you are saying in that month and half you have completely moved on, got over him and are ready to sustain a friendship with this man that caused you so much grief and hurt?
You are certainly bucking the trend of everyone else who comes here, and indeed everyone I have ever known in my life when it comes to healing, greiving, moving on etc.
In a matter of 6 or 7 weeks you have gone from desperately wanting him back and hurting so badly, to being at a point where you are so far over him and moved on that you want to be friends. Wow, I wish I could be so strong!
All power to you. You're one of a kind.
I just hope you aren't lying to yourself Rol, because we all do that form time to time when we want something so bad, but in the end the lie is what prevents us getting what we want.
I don't mean this to sound as glib as it might but the best advice I can give anyone about how to get their ex back is really don't lose them to begin with...
And if you have lost them, well, then by golly--- learn, learn, learn, and learn some more about you, about people, about relationships and how they work especially from people who have been successful at it, so that next time...
You correct what went wrong instead of lose them...
And wind up back here again asking: HOW DO I GET MY EX BACK??
<<And if you have lost them, well, then by golly--- learn, learn, learn, and learn some more about you, about people, about relationships and how they work especially from people who have been successful at it, so that next time... >>
I have learned learned learned and am learning learning learning.
And I don't believe it is my fault that someone needs to find his identity again!! That is NOT my problem!!
But I think if true love is just that, then why run away from it!!
I feel as though I am coming to a point where my heart is telling me that establishing some sort of contact is "just the right thing to do", not as an act of love or friendship. I need to think about this more.
I will write more later on my feelings about all this..
It does take a while, and believe me I am further down the line and I still have bad days. I think you go through periods of thinking you are over the person but you are not. Each situation is different. I think people feel that they have to stress to you that trying to be friends with your ex might be going down the wrong road, they are only trying to protect you : ) Everyone finds no contact difficult at the beginning but contact can be difficult too. It is hard because you get stuck in the middle and think well which way should I go. You really have to assess things yourself, of course we don't know your ex.
Here is the key to unlocking some of it for you Rol. This really is partially YOUR problem since it did end YOUR relationship. See, if one is not happy, then its not really possible for the other to be entirely happy -- otherwise where is the connection, the compassion? Its okay to identify who's problem is who's, certainly. But you are sharing in the relationship and its an outright lie to say this is a good relationship when it isn't working for one of the participants. And it is very very rare that one person alone is contributing to a relatinoship problem. You might be asking yourself how did you contribute to this situtation? When did it start? How did it resolve? What specifically did I do to help or hinder it? Why did I get the outcome I did? If you don't ask those questions and get their answers, its just so incredibly likely you'll repeat this all again.Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
You can push it all off on the other person if you want but that says to me you two weren't sharing very much in the relationship. There was a you and a him but not much WE. See codependency is too much WE, independency is not enough WE and healthy relationships are a co-authored and co-enjoyed interdependency. You make a lot of noise about being such an independent type so maybe start looking there?
Some independent people tend to be like teflon and it makes it hard to connect with them. Maybe he was desperate to make more of a connection with you. Maybe he asked you to marry him hoping it would alter the relationship and when it didn't, he bailed. Not good maneruvers, I grant you, but I sense there was far more off track long before then that you two weren't asknowledging or talking about in a clear, upfront manner. This was no sudden thing -- it simply never is with anyone, in any relationship, short of a mental illness suddenly manifesting.
If you don't want to look, that's okay. In your own time or never -- its your choice. But forgive me, I cannot hide that I recognise what it means when I hear language that says "its not me, it can't be" a little too eagerly.
<<This really is partially YOUR problem since did end YOUR relationship>>
OK I agree its partially my problem but that's about all I agree with in what you wrote!!
<<You can push it all off on the other person if you want but that says to me you
Weren't sharing very much in the relationship by being too independent. There was
A you and a him but not much WE.>>
Exactly the opposite in fact, there was too much we!!
<<Some independent people tend to be like teflon and it makes it hard to connect.
Maybe he was desperate to make a connection with you. Maybe he asked you to
Marry him hoping it would alter the relationship and when it didn't, he bailed.
Not good maneruvers, I grant you, but I sense there was far more off track long
Before then that you two weren't asknowledging or talking about in a clear,
Upfront manner. This was no sudden thing -- it simply never is with anyone,
In any relationship, short of a mental illness suddenly manifesting.>>
NOT at all!! OK I'm going to give you some of the history as it seems you don't really understand me at all and are assuming too many things.And I think you have it in your head that I am the kind that was trying to get him to marry me by flouncing around with other guys and exes. NOT AT ALL!!
OK when we met I was extremely independent and he was also, I had a lot of friends, people calling me all the time, doing many many things.
So we met , and after 8 months he moved to my town to live with me... So what did he get.. he got my life, my friends, my place, my life.
He forgot about himself and fell passionately for me.
Also the time we broke he had just got a promotion to director.
Here is some of the chat that I kept when we first broke.. for your reading... maybe it can help you understand.
I didn't think you would agree with what I wrote Rol but that's okay. I need to say that I am uncomfortable with reading through someone else's chat or email, as I had said on other occasions here. It hits me as an invasion of privacy since we don't have his permission for this. Sorry but I only read your response and not the chat. If you can't explain this in your own words then perhaps we won't be able to correct any of my misunderstanding that you think is occurring. But let me at least say this from having read quite a bit of your own words so far. Even if the problems were largely because you attracted a codependent, or helped create one while being in a relationship with you--it is still your problem that you attracted/helped create a codependent. Everyone has a part in it, large or small, everyone.
The two most inaccurate and unproductive positions to take in any relationship are:
1. Its all my fault (plays the helpless card)
2. Its none of my fault (plays the victim card)
OK that's fine, I deleted it again anyhow.
< Even if the problems were largely because you attracted a codependent, or helped create one while being in a relationship with you>
OK that's a good point to think about, thanks... 'how did I help create a codependent?'as I guess this is essentially what he became..
Well I always encouraged him to do things with his friends, go out and do activities... but he did not... hes the kind that is very happy just to stay at home and work out theorems or things like that. So I thought that was just him and then I left it at that and I stopped asking how come you don't see your friends... and maybe I became a bit more dependent on him as he was always around and I did feel sick whenever he would be take a plane or something (this is something for me to think about , but was I supposed to force him out with his friends or to do stuff?? I think this needed to come from him)
A thing he said the last time we talked was that when he is in a relationship he can only focus on the other person and not on himself and he did not realise that people should be independent also within relationships.
He insisted I am not the problem and I did everything perfect.
And thanks for your help Val I do appreciate it a lot.
Actually what I need is probably just to write out a big letter to express my thoughts , just for myself.
Who is Mrs Miyagi?? I must check her out on Google.
Okay, I have a concern now about how far you want me to go in helping to reveal to you some things that may have been a factor. While there are some things I could say concerning this post of yours, it is very much not my habit to yank someone's covers prematurely or help them crash their denial system without a clear message from them that THAT is what they are ready and here for. People lie to themselves all the time (and I do this too, in case you are wondering) because they are simply not ready for the truth. I can talk pretty plainly about a lot of stuff but should it ultimately hurt someone instead of help them, I would feel genuinely bad about that. So I am asking now... where are you in this Rol? How far am I to go?Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
Added in after reading Post #102, okay I am hearing you say in that post "enough for now" so I will leave you here until you say more, okay?
Mrs Miyagi is a joke started between Geoff and me. It refers to Mister Miyagi who was the wise and kind eastern man who played the main role in Karate Kid. His method of teaching is very similar to mine in some ways, I would like to think? I was sincerely flattered when Geoff seemed to think so too. What we did in our exchange was very fun for both of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
Here is that thread: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...alk-47487.html
<<without a clear message from them that THAT is what they are ready and here for>>
OK I'm ready.Go on.
Dear Rol,Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
I take this answer here as temporary official yes but I would like to sidetrack for just a moment and point out something you did just now that makes for difficulties with people. You are giving what is called a "mixed message" and here is the mix.
This message here has a kind of "I've had enough for now" tone in it I would like you to look at and see. "Actually what i need is probably just to write out a big letter to express my thoughts , jsut for myself."
Because I care about you, I would not care to ignore that. If this gets too intense or too fast for you, it will not be profitable for you.
So first you say um, that's enough...
And then you say, okay more!
So now I ask you to state plainly which it really is and please know this -- very important! If you need to slow it down, I will slow it down always. If you need to stop, I will stop. It is only you asking questions that is making this go, okay?
Love,
Mrs. Miyagi
No I wrote that post about thanks for you help as I meant that.
Then you added the extra post and I added the next one with go ahead . Then I saw the remark you made in your other post.
So yes go ahead...
If I may stick my two cents in, and I was going to stay out of this thread and let you go ahead on your own. You seem to have made up your mind about renewing, albeit a small reconnection with your ex, as a gesture of friendship. Everything you have written here and in your other threads indicates you do have your own way of doing things and being friends with your ex has been so normal. My concern especially reading the last few pages of this thread, is he may not be as mature as you nor as independent, and contacting him when he is in a new relationship would not be a good idea under these circumstances. You may feel ready, but what if he is not? I would hate to have you go into this headstrong, and mind made up, and not consider his feelings, or circumstances. You were hurt when he left, but he was lost. You have to factor things like that into your decision to be friends with an ex. Is he ready?
Dear Rol,
You have listed here only arguments that you did NOT help in creating a codependent. This means you did not give the question enough thought to properly answer it and instead lauched an immediate defense that supports the opposite. I would be willing to bet this habit right here -- your lack of consideration of the question and your quickness to defend yourself at any expense, your need to be seen as perfect even -- was a common occurrence in this relationship. To its detriment too.Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
Ah, now we are getting into some reasons, and it turns out you maybe played a bit of a codependent part too, it seems... doesn't it? It's a dead give away when you have separation anxiety over a loved one taking an ordinary trip. You need to be as honest about more things like you have there -- very very good clue, that was!Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
I have sensed almost from the beginning of meeting you here Rol, that you need to hear you are perfect. Only you can confirm if this is valid. But I can tell you a lot more about why that is so very very bad for you and what to do about it... if you would like to explore it further. It won't hurt, I promise (in fact it will end the pain by getting at its source even). Its up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
Love,
Mrs Miyagi
This is a good point actually rol. You make it clear that you are ready for friendship but without sounding a bit parrot like, I think tal has made very good point. He may not be ready and you cannot assume that he is. Of course you know him better than I or anyone else perceive him to be from the information you have given but what he is thinking or feeling at this time may be different to how you would think he would be (if I make sense)Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Daniel-San
<<You have listed here only arguments that you did NOT help in creating a codependent. This means you did not give the question
Enough thought to properly answer it and instead lauched an immediate defense
That supports the opposite>>
Well I began with those factors and then added how I also got codependent.
<<your lack of consideration of the question and your quickness to defend yourself
At any expense, your need to be seen as perfect
Even -- was a common occurrence in this relationship>>
OK ill think about that. I'm not sure if we had this problem in our relationship, but perhaps a problem with friends sometimes yes.
But don't most people like to defend themselves?
<<Ah, now we are getting into some reasons, and it turns out you maybe played
A bit of a codependent part too, it seems... doesn't it? It's a dead give away
When you have separation anxiety over a loved one taking an ordinary trip.
You need to be as honest about more things like you have there -- very very good
Clue, that was!
>>
Yes I totally agree... I have a bad separation anxiety. I guess this is partly due to losing my father when I was 12. I agree with you totally here and maybe he also sensed this over time. OK this is something for me to work on... but how?
How can you get over a bad separation anxiety ?(its not from missing them or not able to be alone but actually thinking they could die while taking a plane or those kind of thoughts?)
<<I have sensed almost from the beginning of meeting you here Rol, that you need to hear you are perfect. Only you can confirm if this is valid. >>
No I don't think that's valid.. Im just an ordinary girl and definitely done need to hear that I'm perfect! As I'm not!!
On psot 53 I already raised this issue and wondered if living apart was in fact not a solution for me
<<Well I don't think I ever want to have that adicted feeling again, I remember how I would feel sick if he had to take a plane or something and how we would miss each other so much after a few days away.So now I am not so sure if I ever want to live with someone again... How to people really manage to keep their own lives in a relationship while living together? >>
You remind me of myself here Rol. LOL The best way to hide from yourself that you are codependent is to only get into relationships with people who are more codependent than you are! It's a brilliant strategy for maintaining the self illusion but it keeps you very stuck in the problem at the same time. So do you really want to know "How do people really manage to keep their own lives in a relationship while living together?" I can see that you aren't there, and I think you do too. I must warn you that to get where they are, you will need to do some work. The work is very doable (many many people have done it, so can you!) though so have no fear of failure in this one. Are you willing? Deal or no deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by rol
Yes of course I'm willing..
<<many many people have done it, so can you>>
Did you do it ? It must have worked wonders if you did as I cannot imagine for one second from your writing that you are they type to be codependent!! Or is it that people who appear to be strong are in fact the opposite?
Oh my my Rol! Just as there are all kinds of alcoholics, there are all kinds of codependents and for a variety of reasons too. Buy the book Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. Now let me tell you the first thing you'll do LOL is to ramble around in the book looking for signs and sgnals that say either you aren't codependent or you aren't that bad. After that, start reading it from page one, okay? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by rol
If you do this and end up with questions, you can author a thead here on it and we can discuss it, if you like. And if that book doesn't click with you and you get jammed, I have others that aren't quite such a big step we can try -- but I think you can handle this.
And if you need to know specifics about me, I have recovered (with a lot of help) and am still recovering from a very dysfunctional family, PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder), alcoholism, and codependency and worked in the recovery field for the past twleve years after I was burnt out as a commercial graphic designer. I try to make it a habit to talk out of my own experiences of the world or to site books I have read when its only that sort of information.
<<Buy the book Codependent No More by Melody Beattie>>
Im going to buy it, thanks a million, I never thought of buying books on the subject. Thanks for your help.
You have done very well to face your problems , I hope I can do the same.
This books sounds interesting
Dear Rol,
Don't know how I missed 2 take part in this thread... been peeping on this site from time 2 time... I guess I am just doing fine... and rely on less support although I feel compeled and indeed interested to contribute to the various posts especially for cases like yours where one who has been doing so well.
I read your first post and some of the answers that followed... you have been doing great until now.. keep your chin up.. do not be distracted by hidden emotions.. I reckon if you really loved someone and gave him your best... I think it is for good and it is hard to forget and place this book of your life on the shelf of history... be assured that the book still exists and can be retrieved at anytime... how and when does it really matter.. the most important thing is that it exists.
So why don't you in the meantime try to write something happier and fun.. I myself in the back of my head I hope I will receive an unexpected message at christmas or new year.. But if it doesn't happen.. I still have to write the next chapters of my life and I need inspiration for that... so go out, meet new people and enjoy yourself... hope you'll get the best of this festive season
My other thread has disappeared so ill add some updates here instead on the original one.
PLEASE IGNORE THE TITLE! It is funny how you can change in 4 months...
So he called and we talked for a few minutes, just some how are yous etc and a question he had to ask(more of an excuse for contact) , at the end I said I've got to go now bye and he said maybe if you want we can meet for a coffee when I'm back. I said OK , bye
Im ready to face him and talk if he brings it up(which he should after ignoring the issue for so many months)
Anyhow I'm back in a good place, i.e uncertainty and not sure if he is even the guy for me anymore.
Will wait for him to contact about the coffee.
Meanwhile single life is great, have met lots of new friends and I've rebuilt a full life again, and I'm very happy alone.
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