I think stepping back is a wise idea at this point also, as if she is seeking to change, she would be doing so, for herself, and not just to win you over. I also think your taking too much blame to explain her bad behavior, which is also a very red flag, that leaves you vulnerable to some illogical conclusions. Case in point, her turning to someone else to get revenge, for YOUR behavior, NOT LOGICAL AT ALL, and begs to her thinking, and character, as to the course she chose instead of communicating, and working with you directly. At the very least, voicing her displeasure. Sorry guy, all I see is you being a fall back position for her. I have been in the drug counseling field for the last 15 years, and the first rule is never believe what a user is saying, unless they have the actions to back up their words. I'm passing that rule to you.

I love the slippery slope this discussion has taken. She's not being needy of me. She not asking anything of me. She's not attepting to change just to keep me around. I haven't offered her anything other than a pair of ears to listen to her. She's getting her life under control for herself not for me. She took a few steps down a bad path, made a few bad choices. Everyone does. The nature of those mistakes isn't nessesarily the most important thing, rather, its how we learn from them. Her actions, she is learning from them. I place more faith in my gut and intuition and my ability to observe her actions than her words. Admittedly, for the time being, I don't trust a word out of her mouth at face value. But when I see it being backed up by actions, attitude changes, and clues such as her physical appearance (in relation to drug use), my gut tells me she is walking towards a better path. We're nt talking years of addiction and wh0ring herself. We're talking about a girl who experimented with some dangerous substances and made some bad coices during a *brief* rough period of her life. Yeah she is responsible for those choices, but we have all made horrible mistakes in our past. That's how we are shaped into the people we are today. Anyway, I already backed off from pursuing a relationship with her until she finishes working on herself. I don't want to be in her way, nor do I want to be a crutch. Plus I still have a lot of issues to deal with myself. Things are kind of on hold, and they have been since before this latest bomb of bad news. We have been spending time together, but no more than once a week. And we aren't getting back in bed with each other for the time being. Both of us felt it was for the best. I don't see the situation as being as degenerated as you guys do, but I do realise you are trying to protect me and you are right in steering me to be cautious. I think in my anger I blew the situation out of proportion rather than examining it in a more rational manner. I'm not going to make excuses for her, nor blame myself for her behavoir, just when in an emotional state, its sometimes easier to try and rationalise things, even if your conclusions are skewed.

I have thought for as long as I feel I need to about the situation and I feel that confused25 was right. She's standing here in front of me willing to work things out and I do still love her. I am willing to look past mistakes and forgive. Everyone makes mistakes. I criticized her for her brief drug use when I myself was abusing alcohol heavily after the breakup. Substance abuse is substance abuse legal or not. It really speaks to my own character that I was drinking my problems away. I try to be a good guy... I'm not always perfect.. neither will she ever be. She's eating normally and coming back up to a healthy weight again, and the dark circles have disappeared from her eyes which are all good signs she's not doing coke any more. Her personality is more like her old self, if not a little broken and sad over the way she became. I think this weekend was a sobering experience for her in more ways than one. I think the worst is over and we can start healing. We're not at the point where we as individuals can support a truly healthy relationship so we're still going slow, but we are supporting each other and are willing to work together to get past this. She's still working on forgiving me for shutting her out emotionally before the breakup. I'll still be working on forgiving her for the lying and the cheating and for her actions after the break up for a while but we'll both get past this. I have faith. I don't know how religious you all are, but I'm sure you can respect that I am. There's a New Testement passage that have been thinking about while trying to sort this out.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 NIV

@Tal, you brought up some very valid points in your last response but I will say, emotional behavior is rarely logical. Her actions do reflect on her character, but they also reflect on her state of mind at the time. We can all say we've acted in ways and done things outside of our normal behavior that we regret. We both were responsible for the relationship failing, as happens in most breakups. Blame is on both of us. I will say she did try to communicate with me for a long time but I shut her out. And I am still being catious about the drug use. I'm keeping my eyes open.

Sometimes that's all we can do is stay alert, and do our best, for ourselves and others. Its so easy to give advice to others as to what they should be doing, but we can never know the whole entire story, or be there first hand to see the whole picture. You are though and owe it to yourself to be realistic and levelheaded as you go forward. Its not easy at all to forget, and harder to forgive, but those are very valuable healing tools, and to have any future, you must trust. Not just her but yourself. Having that second chance is somewhat unique, and must be taken with a clarity of mind, and heart as the risks are great, as are the rewards. It remains to be seen if you can establish good honest communications, and work through all of this, together. For sure you have to put the ghosts of the past away, and start anew, and see things with fresh eyes that forgiveness brings. While you forgive her, don't forget to forgive yourself, as your right, we all have acted badly in our pasts, but we learn, and never forget the lessons we learned, so they don't come back, and bite us in the a$$... again.
Just an aside, make sure you both balance your lives so you can grow as individuals, and contribute to each others lives in a healthy way. You already know that smothering and individual, is no good, and neither is losing yourself in a relationship.
I know I come off as the bad guy sometimes, but only want you to think as much as you feel, so you can make better decisions for yourself. There is no hurry with love, my friend, and it pays to take the time to do it right, and build things slowly, so they can last.

As you can see my efforts at making paragraphs has failed miserably.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Sometimes thats all we can do is stay alert, and do our best, for ourselves and others. Its so easy to give advice to others as to what they should be doing, but we can never know the whole entire story, or be there first hand to see the whole picture. You are though and owe it to yourself to be realistic and levelheaded as you go forward. Its not easy at all to forget, and harder to forgive, but those are very valuable healing tools, and to have any future, you must trust. Not just her but yourself. Having that second chance is somewhat unique, and must be taken with a clarity of mind, and heart as the risks are great, as are the rewards. It remains to be seen if you can establish good honest communications, and work thru all of this, together. For sure you have to put the ghosts of the past away, and start anew, and see things with fresh eyes that forgiveness brings. While you forgive her, don't forget to forgive yourself, as your right, we all have acted badly in our pasts, but we learn, and never forget the lessons we learned, so they don't come back, and bite us in the a$$ .............again.
Just an aside, make sure you both balance your lives so you can grow as individuals, and contribute to each others lives in a healthy way. You already know that smothering and individual, is no good, and neither is losing yourself in a relationship.
I know I come off as the bad guy sometimes, but only want you to think as much as you feel, so you can make better decisions for yourself. There is no hurry with love, my friend, and it pays to take the time to do it right, and build things slowly, so they can last.

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That means a lot to me tal, and you are absolutely right about trust and forgiveness and that I need to be able to do both towards myself as well as her. Letting go of my own mistakes is something I struggle with constantly. I hope I can learn from them and forgive myself and am trying to do so. I'm trying to stay level headed as best I can and am trying to go forward with a mix of caution, clear headedness, and forgiveness (of myself and her).

Oh and tal, I've never seen you as the bad guy. I may not always agree with you because as you said, I'm here with all the details and you aren't, but I always do understand your point of view and why you give the advice you give. I'm not so close minded as block out what I don't want to hear and ALL of your advice has been and continues to be very appreciated. I'm glad to have you as my voice of reason when I need it and I'm always glad to have an outside point of view. Even advice I disagree with opens new avenues of thought to consider and helps me make better decisions. I never think of you as the bad guy, if anything, you're just brutally honest, and sometimes people like me need brutal honesty. That's what I like about you. Your honesty, experience, and wisdom are always appreciated.

Thanks, I appreciate the good words.

UPDATE

Well its been close to 2 months now since I started this unothodox path. Things are going well I'm happy to say. After having talked through a lot of things, we are putting mistakes in the past, and while learning from them, are forgiving each other and moving on from them together. We spend 1-2 days a week together which is a lot healthier than the 4-6 we used to do. We both have plenty of time to ourselves and to pursue other activities and spend time with friends and family. Everyone , family, friends, and myself have noticed a positive change in her. She's drug free, rebuilding her relationship with her parents, looking healthy again (she looked aweful from the drug use), just got a promotion at work, and hanging out with a good crowd again. The biggest improvement over our old relationship is that she treats me very respectfully now. It makes it a lot easier to respect her. She's acting much more mature now, taking on new responsibilities and keeping her temper in check. We have had a few disagreements thusfar that would have turned into screaming matches before but now turn into respectful conversations and compromise. While its still early to tell anything long term, things as of now are going really well. There is a huge amount of communication and openness now that wasn't there before. There is still a long ways to go, but as of now things are stable and growing. Neediness and clingyness haven't been an issue this time. She doesn't get jealous of my friends as she used to. Things are healthy, and if they keep progressing in this positive way, everything will be OK. Thanks everyone, esp. tal and confused25

Good luck man keep us updated

Awesome! I am truly happy for you! It's great to hear about relationships that go awry but then slowly get back on track. It's still a little too early to tell exactly how things will go, but you are on the right path. Just keep going slow, stay patient, and communicate. I'm rooting for you dude, and I hope to eventually add this one to the happy ending column. Keep us updated.